Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247220 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231432 Jun 29, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
But they didn't know right from wrong til after they ate the fruit. So it would be like sitting candy on the floor with a couple of kids running around. So whose fault would that be? The parents for sitting it within reach, or the kids who don't know the difference? Parents of course. God set them up for failure which means he is not a god, just a failure himself, or itself, I would never give a god a gender.
Besides, god lied to them. They did not die when they ate the fruit. There were not supposed to live forever anyway, cause they were kicked out of the garden, lest they eat of the tree of life. Remember?
So we are supposed to have a god that tricks A&E and lies to them? That is not even a demigod. It is a cartoon god for heavens sake.
Considering they aren't around today, one can only conclude that they died.

As for knowing right and wrong, Eve has an interesting conversation with the serpent that kind of establishes that she knew what she shouldn't do. It's also interesting to note how easily Eve disbelieved God when told something contrary. Adam was there for it, he was as guilty a party as Eve.

How often do we, in our own lives, see forbidden fruit and know its dangers and submit to the temptation of it anyways. What follows is classic as well. The instinct is to first hide, and then to deflect blame. And God, after doling out the consequences covers Adam and Eve in animal hides. And this is how life has been ever since, a sacrifice must be made to cover sin.

“The Bible is no science book”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#231434 Jun 29, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Considering they aren't around today, one can only conclude that they died.
As for knowing right and wrong, Eve has an interesting conversation with the serpent that kind of establishes that she knew what she shouldn't do. It's also interesting to note how easily Eve disbelieved God when told something contrary. Adam was there for it, he was as guilty a party as Eve.
How often do we, in our own lives, see forbidden fruit and know its dangers and submit to the temptation of it anyways. What follows is classic as well. The instinct is to first hide, and then to deflect blame. And God, after doling out the consequences covers Adam and Eve in animal hides. And this is how life has been ever since, a sacrifice must be made to cover sin.
Do you in all honesty, think these newly created people had someone following them around like Diane Sawyer, taking down every word god and they spoke? Be for real for once.

You know better in your mind, you just keep saying to yourself, don't think, just believe, don't think, just believe.

I have lied to myself about things, but never to something this childish. There were no scribes hiding in the jungle taking dictation or hiding microphones to catch every word. More is the pity of smart folks with no common sense.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231435 Jun 29, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you in all honesty, think these newly created people had someone following them around like Diane Sawyer, taking down every word god and they spoke? Be for real for once.
You know better in your mind, you just keep saying to yourself, don't think, just believe, don't think, just believe.
I have lied to myself about things, but never to something this childish. There were no scribes hiding in the jungle taking dictation or hiding microphones to catch every word. More is the pity of smart folks with no common sense.
I have my reasons for believing how I do. You're right, it wasn't the creation account that brought me to Christ, but it is the consistent philosophy and the way it creates a setting that rings true today that has me believing it.

Faith isn't something you just blindly throw at something in hopes that it pans out. Faith is a credit you give someone if they've earned your trust. I don't believe this to be a proper forum for my testimony, but I will say I didn't trust God until after I realized how present He had been in my life.

But it is somewhat divisive to believe that I spend my time trying to shut my mind off not asking questions. After all, I interpret Jesus commandment to love the Lord your God with all your mind to mean just that. When Thomas doubted, Jesus said "look." He didn't say "take it on faith." But Thomas could have looked and said, "there has to be a logical explanation for this, that's impossible." He could have come up with alternate theories, but he was willing to accept the evidence.

But I won't list my reasons here, it would be too personal. I don't do too good with attacks on my personal faith.
Cheetah

Lija, Malta

#231436 Jun 29, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait...how can you call "satan" an outside force in your mythology? Didn't your mythologies' creator create satan?
Are you now claiming that your mythology's creator is not perfect?
That's cool. If you want to believe that your creator is not perfect, then a lot of logical fallacies get cleared up - like the problem of evil, why there is malaria, etc.
<quoted text>
Uh...so you don't want a rational discussion but one where you accuse people who question your religion of siding with...what I can only assume is the bad deity in your religion?
God did not create a Satan. On the contrary, He created the most powerful, beautiful, and intelligent spirit being ever, who was called Lucifer, which means Light. He was a perfect being.
It is only when he rebelled against God that he became Satan, which means Opponent.

Here is how the Bible describes him " Thou was perfect in thy ways until iniquity was found in thee."
That is when God decided to create Man, another intelligent being, but much less than Lucifer/Satan, and of material, mortal substance, rather than an undecaying spirit being.
This is for Man's own good and according to God's plan, so that those humans who decide to oppose Him and not willing to be under His rule will not have to live forever.
God has a tremendous plan for the universe and those humans who love Him and willing to be under His rule, who will eventually take charge of the earth and later the whole universe. They will replace Lucifer/Satan in this capacity.
Most Christians do not know about this plan, because Satan has "deceived the whole world."
Satan is still ruler of this world, and Jesus himself confirmed this. Which is why there is so much evil, injustice and wars in this world, because it is influenced by Satan.
Jesus himself talked constantly about this plan of God, though few Christians understand it, let alone non-Christians.
"The door is narrow, and the path narrow, and FEW be that find it." In other words very few even know about it.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231437 Jun 29, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
But they didn't know right from wrong til after they ate the fruit.
Now this is something that I've never heard taught. I don't know if it is doctrinally sound, but this is my take on what it meant when God saw Adam as how he should be.

I don't think it's because he didn't know right from wrong. I don't think he was some kind of superman. I think Adam was perfect because he was naked and he did not know it. He stood and walked with God fearlessly, and unashamedly. He didn't have worry, guilt, regret, or remorse. He was absolutely pure, with the want or need of nothing in order to be okay, and aside from being able to walk next to God, that was probably the biggest thing he lost in the fall.

And that is probably why God didn't want him to eat from that tree. This is all my own interpretation. I might be wrong with this, but all this talk about creation has made me think.
Thinking

York, UK

#231438 Jun 29, 2014
"If someone is depraved, kill their kids" - kimare.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
'Religitards'? How old are you?
You deny equating eggs with babies, and then turn around and do it again.
I already answered the question about babies.. When a culture reaches the depravity that those did in Noah's time, and the Canaanites in Exodus, God destroys the whole culture.
The Bible makes it clear that sin impacts all those around the guilty, including the innocent.
However, you have no excuse for the murder of babies by abortion.
Hypocrite.
Cheetah

Lija, Malta

#231439 Jun 29, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
But they didn't know right from wrong til after they ate the fruit. So it would be like sitting candy on the floor with a couple of kids running around. So whose fault would that be? The parents for sitting it within reach, or the kids who don't know the difference? Parents of course. God set them up for failure which means he is not a god, just a failure himself, or itself, I would never give a god a gender.
Besides, god lied to them. They did not die when they ate the fruit. There were not supposed to live forever anyway, cause they were kicked out of the garden, lest they eat of the tree of life. Remember?
So we are supposed to have a god that tricks A&E and lies to them? That is not even a demigod. It is a cartoon god for heavens sake.
In a way you are right, but also like most Christians you lack understanding of God's Plan.
Yes, God did intend for Adam and Eve to fall, otherwise He wouldn't have pitted the most intelligent being He ever created against two innocent beings. Like your good example of putting sweets in front of little innocent children.
If Adam and Eve did not fall, God's plan for the rest of subsequent humanity would not have worked.
God wants to show humans how weak and vulnerable they are, and that their ultimate folly will lead to their, and the world's, destruction, which is not far away.
This in fact is the whole lesson of the Bible, from start to finish.
Man must learn by experience where his ways without God's rule will lead.
Then the second phase of God's plan will start.
Thinking

York, UK

#231440 Jun 29, 2014
I also read that the Y-chromosome seems to be holding up and degenerating far more slowly now. But the unscientific story, "We're all going to be women" sells more newspapers.
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a lot of misunderstanding in media when it comes to genetics. I have troubles believing the whole "the y-chromosome will disappear" hypothesis. It's a ratchet theory - that, in the absence of duplication, genes that get hit by mutation simply get destroyed. As you say, that leaves out a fair amount of what we know about how genes work.
Thinking

York, UK

#231441 Jun 29, 2014
The way you talk about women, anyone would think you were a massively old religitard.

Oh. You are.

Slime.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I forgot, you reason like a girl.
A blonde girl specifically.
And you talk out of your ass.
Smile.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#231442 Jun 29, 2014
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You are being funny, right? Surely you're not that ignorant?
Genesis preceded science by thousands of years, describing the Big Bang right off the bat.
It notes that life began from the earth and was initially genderless.
How did a fiction book get core elements of creation so right?
Smile.
<quoted text>
In the 60's I debated an atheist about the universe having a beginning point. He specifically used the mocking term (at that time),'The big bang'.
Genesis 1:1 (GW) In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
Perhaps you need to read the passage closer?
I'd suggest you read Proverbs 8:22-31, another passage about creation.
Good talking to you again...
Smile.
Good talking to you again, too.

;-)
Thinking

York, UK

#231443 Jun 29, 2014
"everyone for themselves"
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's best to worry about ones own salvation. Deciding who is saved is a little above my pay grade.
Thinking

York, UK

#231444 Jun 29, 2014
So Eve was imperfectly designed.

Your god's entrapment.

Again.
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Considering they aren't around today, one can only conclude that they died.
As for knowing right and wrong, Eve has an interesting conversation with the serpent that kind of establishes that she knew what she shouldn't do. It's also interesting to note how easily Eve disbelieved God when told something contrary. Adam was there for it, he was as guilty a party as Eve.
How often do we, in our own lives, see forbidden fruit and know its dangers and submit to the temptation of it anyways. What follows is classic as well. The instinct is to first hide, and then to deflect blame. And God, after doling out the consequences covers Adam and Eve in animal hides. And this is how life has been ever since, a sacrifice must be made to cover sin.
Thinking

York, UK

#231445 Jun 29, 2014
Why do you accept a god that you believe drowned every baby not on the ark?
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have my reasons for believing how I do. You're right, it wasn't the creation account that brought me to Christ, but it is the consistent philosophy and the way it creates a setting that rings true today that has me believing it.
Faith isn't something you just blindly throw at something in hopes that it pans out. Faith is a credit you give someone if they've earned your trust. I don't believe this to be a proper forum for my testimony, but I will say I didn't trust God until after I realized how present He had been in my life.
But it is somewhat divisive to believe that I spend my time trying to shut my mind off not asking questions. After all, I interpret Jesus commandment to love the Lord your God with all your mind to mean just that. When Thomas doubted, Jesus said "look." He didn't say "take it on faith." But Thomas could have looked and said, "there has to be a logical explanation for this, that's impossible." He could have come up with alternate theories, but he was willing to accept the evidence.
But I won't list my reasons here, it would be too personal. I don't do too good with attacks on my personal faith.
Cheetah

Lija, Malta

#231446 Jun 29, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Considering they aren't around today, one can only conclude that they died.
As for knowing right and wrong, Eve has an interesting conversation with the serpent that kind of establishes that she knew what she shouldn't do. It's also interesting to note how easily Eve disbelieved God when told something contrary. Adam was there for it, he was as guilty a party as Eve.
How often do we, in our own lives, see forbidden fruit and know its dangers and submit to the temptation of it anyways. What follows is classic as well. The instinct is to first hide, and then to deflect blame. And God, after doling out the consequences covers Adam and Eve in animal hides. And this is how life has been ever since, a sacrifice must be made to cover sin.
That is exactly what God told them "Dust you are and unto dust you shall return."
Which explodes another false Christian belief that one goes to heaven or hell when they die.
Nowhere does the Bible say that man has an immortal soul. It says one goes to the grave, translated as hell, when they die.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231447 Jun 29, 2014
Cheetah wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly what God told them "Dust you are and unto dust you shall return."
Which explodes another false Christian belief that one goes to heaven or hell when they die.
Nowhere does the Bible say that man has an immortal soul. It says one goes to the grave, translated as hell, when they die.
Yeah, it's mostly implied. Things like "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

"and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." -Ecclesiastes 12:7

This was a key difference between the Sadducees and the Pharisees, the Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife while the Pharisees did.

This is why I believe in heaven "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.-John 14:2-3

Oh and this - And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." -Luke 23:43
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231448 Jun 29, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Why do you accept a god that you believe drowned every baby not on the ark?
<quoted text>
Because I choose to.
Thinking

York, UK

#231449 Jun 30, 2014
Surely you could find a better god than the baby drowner?

www.godchecker.com
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I choose to.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231450 Jun 30, 2014
Thinking wrote:
"everyone for themselves"
<quoted text>
It really is a waste of time, and we're not called to judge. But, here's some speculation:

I really don't want to butcher grace doctrine, as it is the most important thing about Christianity. It's pretty much the reason we put crosses everywhere, so let's start from there.

So, Christ was mocked, ridiculed, tortured, and crucified in order to pay the debt owed for our transgressions. It was the sacrifice in order to cover all sin and make us righteous in the eyes of God. Keep in mind too, that Christ didn't wait for us to get our acts together to do it. He did this while we were indifferent to God. It was an act of love that speaks to His character.

So, what does this mean to someone who has accepted that God loves them enough not only to meticulously create them, sewing them together in their mother's womb. But also to forgive them for the numerous ways that they are going to walk away from Him.

Well, there should be a bit of a dichotomy. I am seen as perfect, but not for anything that I did. But because of what has been done for me. I should be confident, but also humble.

What does this have to do with Adolf Hitler? Excellent question. Well, do you honestly believe that someone can truly accept grace, be grateful that God has forgiven them, choose to follow Christ out of that gratitude and then kill themselves? Do you think that someone of Hitler's character would turn around and realize that he is a hopeless sinner and needs forgiveness, that he would level his pride and accept Christ?

Probably not, but I can't see into people's hearts. There are a lot of hypocrites, there are total fakes, and it isn't easy to spot who sins because they aren't trying and who sins because they fell prey to their nature. It's better to simply give allowances for each other, show compassion and not try to figure out who the fakes are. Trust that God knows and sees and He will sort it out.

Another key thing to remember is that it isn't based on ones on works, or how we behave. It is dictated by our relationship with Christ. But then our behavior becomes indicative of that relationship. If I say I love my wife and then go sleep with another woman you probably would question how much I really love my wife, right? Same kind of thing, being wicked but also Christian is inconsistent. It isn't living out the implications of your faith, but I am not the one to judge who is saved. God is.

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#231451 Jun 30, 2014
ChristINSANITY is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
Dam one learn something new here every day,,
,What were the other genders Native Americans had ?
It depended on which group, but usually 3 and some had 4. I use 'men' and 'women' to denote gender and 'male' and 'female' to denote sex.

Generally, men were hunters and warriors. They ranged further from the group than women. Women raised children and prepared food. Each wore a gender appropriate clothing.

If a male wore the woman's dress and took up woman's work, the male became known as a "two-spirit" person or, in this case, a "womanly man." They basically took up the women's gender and had some magical/medicinal roles (like foretelling the future or dealing with spirits or whatever).

In some groups, females could likewise take up the man's role, wearing men's clothing and hunting, being a warrior.

Their marriage system is based on gender, not sex. So a man could marry a woman or a womanly man. A womanly man could not marry a woman or another womanly man. A manly woman (in the warrior role) could marry a woman, but not a man or a womanly man.

So their understanding of sex, gender and sexuality differs from ours quite a bit. These Christians never get that, b/c they "know" they have the "right" system - and everyone else is a "failed" version of them. So they totally ignore the role culture plays in how people behave - especially in why religious people honestly experience their religion as real.

Yet all believers live in a subjective reality that is based on their religion; all religions are both subjectively real - and therefore "true" in a sense - and human constructed.

Here, we are attacking that subjective reality and we are treated to a wonderful display of egotistical, arrogant and, more than anything, desperate defense of it.

:)

Thanks for asking an interesting question!

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#231452 Jun 30, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I forgot, you reason like a girl.
A blonde girl specifically.
And you talk out of your ass.
Smile.
So...that's your defense of your mythology?

Hiding: 1
KiMare: 0

:)

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