Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255511 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#231236 Jun 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You already admitted it was hearsay
You seem to like backpedalling, musts be a godbot failing
Yes I did.

It can be both silly Queen Blondie.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#231237 Jun 26, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think what gets the most lost in these kinds of discussions is the very definition of faith. Since our topic is "Atheism requires as much faith as religion?" Maybe everyone should have a clear understanding of what the word really means.
faith (n.)
mid-13c., "duty of fulfilling one's trust," from Old French feid, foi "faith, belief, trust, confidence, pledge," from Latin fides "trust, faith, confidence, reliance, credence, belief," from root of fidere "to trust,"
From the online etymology dictionary. Faith is a belief with a reliance on that belief, not to be mistaken for hope. I could go through the philosophical arguments that collectively make a strong case for belief in God that I read. But that really isn't the intention of this topic, which is to say that Atheism requires as much faith as religion.
That is to say that reliance upon the belief that there is no God means some changes in life application based upon that belief. Generally, in my life, I have found that Atheism isn't much of an applied faith... That is to say, Atheists spend a lot of time working out why they believe what they do, but they don't live out what it would actually mean to them and in their daily lives that there is no creator.
There are a lot of ideals that we, as people raised in a culture founded on christian ideals live by such as justice, equality, compassion. There really is no need for any of those if we are, in fact nothing more than the product of genetics. If we aren't created, we aren't equal and the only viable reason that we would strive for equality is that we haven't yet developed a method by which we can assign value for people. Just like every apple isn't equal, neither then, would be people.
Justice is another one, we hope that justice is done, it seems to be mixed with a bit of compassion and so we spend so much time and money to ensure that people are treated fairly by our justice system, even though that very person is the product of random, yet we try to establish this kind of order and control. But if we were consistent with the belief that only the fittest survive, why take it easy on anyone? And if we aren't right, why does it matter in the midst of meaningless survival that is destined to end and be forgotten.
Compassion is probably the most inconsistent value an atheist can have. Really, why waste your time when this world is all there is. Especially, if that person is genetically inferior, perhaps letting them die in a ditch would be better for mankind as a whole.
Yet, instead, I see atheists hold on to these values that come straight out of the bible, yet want to short change God for the glory in that. It's ridiculously inconsistent. I'm not saying Christians aren't inconsistent. There are many that do not live out the implications of their faith as well. But for this topic, I believe that a truly faithful atheist should be trying to suck every pleasure they possibly can out of this life, regardless of cost or consequence, this is, after all, all there is and it is pointless.
Faith : noun : strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.


And still no evidence

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#231238 Jun 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I did.
It can be both silly Queen Blondie.
Legally, no, but never mind that, either take topix and to court or stop whinging
Thinking

Poole, UK

#231239 Jun 26, 2014
No. Morality came before your religion was invented. Now you're trying to hijack some morals in the name of your religion.

Your bible says that your god drowned every baby not on the ark. I certainly reject that morality.
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I would argue that morality is a product of my religion. That wasn't really my point, but yeah, sure, okay let's talk about morality.
On what authority do we even set values? We in the western world see injustice for what it truly is. For instance we look at the rights of women in some middle eastern countries and hopefully you look at that and say, that is not just. But in those countries, it is totally okay. To them that is what is morally right... Even when you know in your heart that it is not. It's a moral relativism that occurs when people adopt their ideas of right and wrong based on the culture around them.
So, what's the point? Yeah we've had morals forever, but what are they based on? Many cultures have established a system of morals that we know is abhorrent. But on what authority can we even establish that. Especially if we are the product of random.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231240 Jun 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith : noun : strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
And still no evidence
Interesting definition, here I was having faith in my friends, my leaders, my loved ones. And I can only have faith in religion. And then only if there has been nothing to lead me to believe it's worth trusting someone or something.

The fact is that you, my friend, have had to put your faith in many things in your life, but I'm sure that you, like me, do not go throwing it at prospects that leave you wondering if it's well placed.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#231241 Jun 26, 2014
Thinking wrote:
No. Morality came before your religion was invented. Now you're trying to hijack some morals in the name of your religion.
Your bible says that your god drowned every baby not on the ark. I certainly reject that morality.
<quoted text>
Every culture that has adopted christianity has had to wrestle with some part of it. I've found that our culture wrestles with the reverence towards God, and submitting to him. It goes against our nature.
Thinking

Poole, UK

#231242 Jun 26, 2014
Your bible says god killed every baby not on the ark. Why would you collaborate with *that*?
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Every culture that has adopted christianity has had to wrestle with some part of it. I've found that our culture wrestles with the reverence towards God, and submitting to him. It goes against our nature.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#231243 Jun 26, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Picture if you will the illusion of an afterlife.
Will people all faiths on the planet be in either a heaven or hell?
Got already know your decisions.
Your future is predetermined by him.
Free will is a contradiction in and of itself.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their own desires." ~Susan B. Anthony
was susan b a big fat butch? i REALLY distrust those!

btw - are you trying to threaten me with eternal extinction? cuz that's about the cruelest bullying tactic there is!
Thinking

Poole, UK

#231244 Jun 26, 2014
The old christard hell threatening bully playing the victim card!

And another homophobic comment. You really are helping the exodus from christianity.
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
was susan b a big fat butch? i REALLY distrust those!
btw - are you trying to threaten me with eternal extinction? cuz that's about the cruelest bullying tactic there is!

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#231245 Jun 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You really do not get it do you? I don’t care how you take yourself, you want to embarrass yourself before the world that is up to you but don’t expect me or anyone else to play along with your stupidity just at your whim
okay i get it; you take yourself and your opinions on this thread VERY seriously!

that's really very sad.....

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#231246 Jun 26, 2014
Thinking wrote:
A billion+ people believe in many reincarnations which is a very different dream to yours.
So that's your childish argument knackered, then.
Birk.
<quoted text>
"A billion+ people believe in many reincarnations..."

i suppose those alive at the time of the flood believed just about every strange idea EXCEPT for what Noah believed!

"AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, SO SHALL IT BE IN THE END" - JESUS

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#231247 Jun 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Honey, I don't argue faith with faithless people.
Smile.
a. I'm not your "honey" - so your endearment is worthless.

b. I have plenty of faith. Are you implying that I am faithless? How did you come to this conclusion?

New Age - believes in what Jesus taught, thus - plenty of faith and probably more so than you consider yourself to have.

I accept all of what Jesus taught - and since you don't - it sounds like you lack faith in Jesus.

Maybe you don't argue with faithless people, is because you lack so much of it in Jesus, that you fit right in with those you oppose.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#231248 Jun 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
How did the idea of the afterlife show up in nearly all cultures in human history?
I think there is definitely a possibility of a Alien being who is smarter than you. You know, since most people already are.
Smile.
<quoted text>
Read it again.
I didn't assert anything. I simply asked you to explain how the idea of an afterlife appears in nearly every culture in human history.
I think Islam could be God's judgment on the Western culture. As an atheist, you should be the one concerned, right?
Smile.
<quoted text>
Why are you desperately avoiding my question?
How did the idea of the afterlife show up in nearly all cultures in human history?
I'm sure Muslims would consider that an acceptable alternative...
The book of Exodus DOES record an Alien visit. He created and predicted the exceptional impact of the Jewish culture. Kind of blows your assertion out of the water, huh.
Smile.
So you don't argue with the "faithless"....yet will with what you call an Atheist.

You do post as if you are confused or more accurately, just chose to not converse with me.

I understand - most so-called "Christians" usually pull that same card with me, AFTER I had shown them that their belief is skewed and not one that believes in Jesus and what he taught.

Like I said, I understand completely - you like being told how to believe.

Carry on.
Thinking

Poole, UK

#231249 Jun 26, 2014
Do you believe in the flood as told in the bible? Are you like 5 years old?
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
"A billion+ people believe in many reincarnations..."
i suppose those alive at the time of the flood believed just about every strange idea EXCEPT for what Noah believed!
"AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, SO SHALL IT BE IN THE END" - JESUS

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#231250 Jun 26, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
The book of Exodus ?
** fine tunes Acme giggle meter
Egyptian history doesn't record Moses. It's too bad and so sad he doesn't exist.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses...
** summons global and local demons to conference. The plan to drain the Holy See is the topic.
I assert nothing.
I examine the topic, view the available information, and post my comment for my own amusement. What others think is totally irrelevant. In fact, the more animated and robust they become the more entertaining and funny it becomes for me.
.Elims
in addition.....Dr. Hawass - Dir of Egyptian Antiquities - also promotes that the Exodus didn't occur.

“Really, it’s a myth,” Dr. Hawass said of the story of the Exodus, as he stood at the foot of a wall built during what is called the New Kingdom."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/afric...

For another take on this - I've recently (and for the past few months) been reading a book by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval "The Message of the Sphinx".....

http://www.amazon.com/Message-Sphinx-Hidden-L...

...and they posit that the current "history" of Egypt is missing information.

They say this, because of the astronomical alignment of the Giza plateau - namely teh Sphinx. They, with other scientists, agree that the Sphinx was constructed in a much earlier time - "The First Time" - to mimic what the stars were doing as they transverse the sky.

Soooo...the Exodus could have occurred during the period of pre-Dynastic pharaohs - unrecorded for the most part of who is who.

"In 1858, our notable Auguste Mariette was commissioned by the Duke of Luynes to verify Pliny the Elder's statements regarding that the Sphinx was built and not monolithic. He opened a site near the pyramid attributed to Cheops (who reigned 2551-2528 BC, 4th Dynasty) and in a nearby shrine of Isis, he found the stele called "Inventory" where it says that the sphinx and the large pyramid existed well before the reign of the leaders of the 4th dynasty before 2575 B.C. The text states that: "During the reign of Cheops he ordered the construction of a monument along the Sphinx." Logically this means that the Sphinx was already there before ... But if it was there at the time of Cheops, this means that contrary to what the "mainstream" says, a fortiori, it could not have been built on order of Chephren's successor on the throne!"
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/publications-...

Another aspect - which leans that the Exodus DID occur is a stela in the Egyptian Museum - "the Ahmose “Tempest” Stela" - not on public display anywhere, but in a Cairo storage.

The author of this article seems to dismiss Jacobovici's theory with this statement:
'Jacobovici claims that Ahmose’s Tempest Stela reports, from an Egyptian perspective, the same events as the biblical ten plagues story, but this claim hangs by the slimmest of threads."

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#231251 Jun 26, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Do you believe in the flood as told in the bible? Are you like 5 years old?
<quoted text>
do you NOT believe in the flood as told in the Bible? what, are you like the multitude of morons in Noah's day?

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#231252 Jun 26, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Do you believe in the flood as told in the bible? Are you like 5 years old?
<quoted text>
btw - i'm guessing you also believe that homosexuality is a valid life-style, like the moronic multitudes of sodomites did in the days of sodom and gomorrah!

"as it was in the days of sodom, so shall it be in the end" - Jesus
CunningLinguist

Alachua, FL

#231253 Jun 26, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
in addition.....Dr. Hawass - Dir of Egyptian Antiquities - also promotes that the Exodus didn't occur.
“Really, it’s a myth,” Dr. Hawass said of the story of the Exodus, as he stood at the foot of a wall built during what is called the New Kingdom."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/afric...
For another take on this - I've recently (and for the past few months) been reading a book by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval "The Message of the Sphinx".....
http://www.amazon.com/Message-Sphinx-Hidden-L...
...and they posit that the current "history" of Egypt is missing information.
They say this, because of the astronomical alignment of the Giza plateau - namely teh Sphinx. They, with other scientists, agree that the Sphinx was constructed in a much earlier time - "The First Time" - to mimic what the stars were doing as they transverse the sky.
Soooo...the Exodus could have occurred during the period of pre-Dynastic pharaohs - unrecorded for the most part of who is who.
"In 1858, our notable Auguste Mariette was commissioned by the Duke of Luynes to verify Pliny the Elder's statements regarding that the Sphinx was built and not monolithic. He opened a site near the pyramid attributed to Cheops (who reigned 2551-2528 BC, 4th Dynasty) and in a nearby shrine of Isis, he found the stele called "Inventory" where it says that the sphinx and the large pyramid existed well before the reign of the leaders of the 4th dynasty before 2575 B.C. The text states that: "During the reign of Cheops he ordered the construction of a monument along the Sphinx." Logically this means that the Sphinx was already there before ... But if it was there at the time of Cheops, this means that contrary to what the "mainstream" says, a fortiori, it could not have been built on order of Chephren's successor on the throne!"
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/publications-...
Another aspect - which leans that the Exodus DID occur is a stela in the Egyptian Museum - "the Ahmose “Tempest” Stela" - not on public display anywhere, but in a Cairo storage.
The author of this article seems to dismiss Jacobovici's theory with this statement:
'Jacobovici claims that Ahmose’s Tempest Stela reports, from an Egyptian perspective, the same events as the biblical ten plagues story, but this claim hangs by the slimmest of threads."
*gasp!

Thanks for overloading my brain cells with the information, well done!

Your opinion yes or no - did the Egyptians create the first religion?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#231254 Jun 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Legally, no, but never mind that, either take topix and to court or stop whinging
Legally, yes.

Did you think I was whining?

I've dealt with that libel since 1996, long before I retired in 2005 after 20 years as Pastor of the Church.

The fact is, your libel about it only exposes the weakness of a 'rational atheist' oxymoron's position and character.

So go for it honey.

Smile.
CunningLinguist

Alachua, FL

#231255 Jun 26, 2014
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
was susan b a big fat butch? i REALLY distrust those!
btw - are you trying to threaten me with eternal extinction? cuz that's about the cruelest bullying tactic there is!
http://susanbanthonyhouse.org/her-story/biogr...

She was quite a gal - courageous check her out.

How can I threaten you with something that doesn't exist?

Default prize: Hell Heaven Purgatory or a charming villa on the French Riviera.

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