Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258482 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227000 Apr 25, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't try so hard to be an idiot.
Just relax, it comes to you naturally.
Answer the question, stop deflecting.

You smoked the cigarette yourself, you fell to peer pressure.

Who's at fault for you voluntarily smoking that cigarette.?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227001 Apr 25, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>How does a lawyer not understand the fundamental difference between influence and cause? In criminal matters it would go to the very heart of who could be held accountable
Someone hangs out with an associate who is constantly trying to get them to act against their own best interest based on rationalization or provocation. It will be fun, these people have it coming, who cares what others think, you don't have the guts, be a man, I bet your girlfriiend cgeats in you and that chicks hot plus nobody will wver know, etc, etc.
The weaker someone is mentally or sometimes perhaps simply being worn down might eventually get someone to do something they might not have otherwise done. But are you seriously suggesting you could hold the person who made the suggestion culpable for the act done by the person who gave way to temptation? And claim its the equivalent of causing it? You know that's absurd. By your logic there would be no different between telling someone they should go rob that store (with no ability to put undue influence on the oerson) and robbing the store themselves. Was that one of your brilliant defense strategies?" Well you see, I know my client murdered his wife in a rage but that's only because his friend convinced him she was cheating and he shouldn't let her get away with it. So as you can all clearly see, it is my clients friend who is really the guilty party. His influence played a role so he is the actual guilty party"
I know you won't respond and fortunately it has never been remotely necessary. I simply like calling out the b.s. when it is being piled up so high. The only thing funnier to me than how oblivious you are to how easily you are gotten to is the irony that you constantly expose yourself to be the very thing you try to falsely accuse RR of. Because nobody with any intelligence should be able to read your posts and conclude you think it is simply semantics. You are a lawyer. Or play one on Topix anyway. There is no possible way you actually don't understand the major difference between influence and cause when it comes to responsibility for an action.
You know when cops play their little games in an interrogation and you wonder how anybody could think something so stupid and transparently dishonest would work to fool someone but then realize sadly it must work on some people or they wouldn't have it in their bag of tricks. That's what I think of a lot when I read your posts. Do you just hang out with some really stupid people that are incapable of seeing the glaringly obvious? Because whatever your faults you are not a stupid man. I will admit that much. And for the life of me I can't figure out how you expect to pull off so much of the things you have tried. Is it arrogance or simply deformation out of pride? Whatever it is, it is siome funny shit to watch. Even funnier still to call you on it:)
Well said, Skom.

Don't be a stranger.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227002 Apr 25, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
We have been discussing (without success, unfortunately) the concept of causation.
Criminal guilt is based on principles other than just causation.
An example: You are a gang member; you drive a vehicle; your buddy is in the shotgun seat; you drive into the territory of a rival gang; your buddy shoots and kills a member of the rival gang from the vehicle; you drive off.
You didn't shoot the victim. You just drove the vehicle. You didn't "cause" the victim's death, your buddy did. But you can be convicted of the murder of the victim.
How is that relevant to what we've been discussing?

I said that Satan doesn't cause anyone to do anything, what he does is influence only.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227003 Apr 25, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting.
You rewrite what I wrote, slip one of >your< lines in there too, sarcastically declare that brilliant, and then rewrite it again mixing up the words, slip in >your< line AGAIN, and then proclaim it double brilliant.
cau·sa·tion noun \ko&#775;-&#712;z& #257;-sh&#601;n\
: the act or process of causing something to happen or exist
: the relationship between an event or situation and a possible reason or cause
: the relationship between an event or situation and a possible reason or cause
: the relationship between an event or situation and a possible reason or cause
: the relationship between an event or situation and a possible reason or cause
: the relationship between an event or situation and a possible reason or cause
possible reason or cause
possible reason or cause
possible reason or cause
possible reason or cause
possible reason or cause
possible reason or cause
Like I said Einstein, influence can and often is the causation ... the underlying reason ... the cause ... of an act or action.
How is that relevant to Satan influencing?

Hers a plain example of causation: When you exercise, the calories per minute goes up - the former cause the latter.

That's direct. I claim that Satan influences people in many different ways. He'll put doubts in your head and exploit your weaknesses, maybe that's an immoral lifestyle, drugs, porn, violence, etc.

Where's the relevance of Satan influencing to causation?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227004 Apr 25, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am.
Well, God bless you Mr. RR.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227005 Apr 25, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
ID isn't derived from science. It's the artful obfuscation of religion by masquerading it as science.
ID doesn't have theory. It conflates its findings with design by thoroughly ignoring the historical, theory driven and hypothesis based refutation of design by the biological sciences. ID is intellectual dishonesty mixed with baseless stupidity.
It relies utterly on arguments from ignorance, arguments from incredulity, misdirection and dishonest, ignorant scholarship.
It's not surprising that you wave the ID banner.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't say?
If I ever decide to commit suicide, I'll jump from atop your ego and fall to your IQ.
You have not the slightest interest or aptitude for science, and I know with absolute certainty that you couldn't care less about the facts of such things.
You are a religious fanatic. All that matters to you is the apologia of your religious materialism. You will flout the truth at any turn to defend your orthodoxy.
You are material scientism's Joan Of Arc.
I am embarrassed for ever taking you seriously.
You throw in the towel pretty easily, hey.

It's ok, Buck. I understand you resort to insults because you're not intelligent enough to argue with me. No worries, it's cool. I accept your defeat.

Don't kill yourself.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227006 Apr 25, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the sort of quibbling over words that result in confusion as described in the Tower of Babel.
An influence becomes a cause when something submits to it.
It is all about distribution of forces. Maintaining integrity of collections of them. From grass shacks protecting against the breeze to social systems protecting its organization. In the latter expectations are imposed on the individual components to maintain its integrity.
Dave! Despite your incoherence, I am once again glad to find you alive.

:)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227007 Apr 25, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what the Bible says.
Nice to see you, too, Eagle.

Anyways, all religions have equal claim to evidence, so it doesn't really matter what one religion claims over some other one.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227008 Apr 25, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
How is that relevant to Satan influencing?
Hers a plain example of causation: When you exercise, the calories per minute goes up - the former cause the latter.
That's direct. I claim that Satan influences people in many different ways. He'll put doubts in your head and exploit your weaknesses, maybe that's an immoral lifestyle, drugs, porn, violence, etc.
Where's the relevance of Satan influencing to causation?
Your deity, Satan, doesn't exist. It's just a metaphor to help the uneducated think about reality.

Sorry if that upsets you.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227009 Apr 25, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect.
Causation would be the underlying factor which made the action happen.
Influence can be the causation of an action, any action, including acting upon and for a cause.
Hunger can be the causation for an act of robbery.
Pain can be the causation for crying out.
So...what do you hunt?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227010 Apr 25, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
If I were to tie you down and force you to smoke the cigarette, then you could accuse me of proximate cause.
You smokes the cigarette yourself, you fell to peer pressure.
Whose at fault for you voluntarily smoking that cigarette.?
You couldn't actually force me to smoke a cigarette just by tying me down. You'd have to include beer, a balcony and, if you don't mind, I'd prefer a cigarello. Maybe a bit of dark, sugary rum.

Ah shit, at this point I think the causation is myself.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#227011 Apr 25, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So...what do you hunt?
There's a really big hint in the avatar photo.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227012 Apr 25, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Your deity, Satan, doesn't exist. It's just a metaphor to help the uneducated think about reality.
Sorry if that upsets you.
Your opinion doesn't upset me, no.

Satan absolutely exists. He's out there right now, influencing somebody.

Sorry if that upsets you.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227013 Apr 25, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You couldn't actually force me to smoke a cigarette just by tying me down. You'd have to include beer, a balcony and, if you don't mind, I'd prefer a cigarello. Maybe a bit of dark, sugary rum.
Ah shit, at this point I think the causation is myself.
HA HA!

Touché, young lass. Touché.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#227014 Apr 25, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the sort of quibbling over words that result in confusion as described in the Tower of Babel.
An influence becomes a cause when something submits to it.
It is all about distribution of forces. Maintaining integrity of collections of them. From grass shacks protecting against the breeze to social systems protecting its organization. In the latter expectations are imposed on the individual components to maintain its integrity.
Hey look, Redneck.

Dave says that "an influence becomes a cause when something submits to it."

Do you agree with Dave?

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#227015 Apr 25, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer the question, stop deflecting.
You smoked the cigarette yourself, you fell to peer pressure.
Who's at fault for you voluntarily smoking that cigarette.?
What does "fault" have to do with it?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227016 Apr 25, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Your opinion doesn't upset me, no.
Satan absolutely exists. He's out there right now, influencing somebody.
Sorry if that upsets you.
Your beliefs don't upset me. I don't count you as those who try to violently force them upon me. I only argue against you because I worry about you - satan is too silly for you. You're an adult.

But whatever. If believing in satan makes you happy, enjoy.

Anyways, have you read Durkheim? This is from 102 years ago. It's important not for his claims to science, but for his call to study religion. This argument is the basis for all studies of religion - all religions are equal. In fact, his discussions on society are still echoed in contemporary social science.

He's a bit incorrect - he claims that all religions are attempts to bring harmony to humans, and that all ritual, regardless of form, serves that purpose. I don't think so. But, anyways, this is one of the great scholarly works that wrests humanity from the talons of religious ignorance. The others include 'Systema Naturae,''On the Origin of Species,' and 'Introduction to Psychoanalysis' and works by Copernicus, Galileo and Einstein.

http://crasseux.com/books/Emile_Durkheim_-_Th...
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#227017 Apr 25, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Read “Revelations 21,” chapter.
Read it slow, you got to sip it in like expensive wine.
Here here, to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Well, I read it.
Verse 8 destroyed any chance of my admittance. Bummer.
What you fail to realize is that infantile rambling like this is what initially drove us away from religious belief. This is not going to bring us back to the flock...
Sip it like expensive wine?
Any fool who accepts this without question is probably knocking back a bottle of Boone's Farm in a brown paper bag while sitting on the curb...

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#227018 Apr 25, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a really big hint in the avatar photo.
I apologize, good sir, I cannot tell if that's caribou or wapiti.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#227019 Apr 25, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Your beliefs don't upset me. I don't count you as those who try to violently force them upon me. I only argue against you because I worry about you - satan is too silly for you. You're an adult.
But whatever. If believing in satan makes you happy, enjoy.
Anyways, have you read Durkheim? This is from 102 years ago. It's important not for his claims to science, but for his call to study religion. This argument is the basis for all studies of religion - all religions are equal. In fact, his discussions on society are still echoed in contemporary social science.
He's a bit incorrect - he claims that all religions are attempts to bring harmony to humans, and that all ritual, regardless of form, serves that purpose. I don't think so. But, anyways, this is one of the great scholarly works that wrests humanity from the talons of religious ignorance. The others include 'Systema Naturae,''On the Origin of Species,' and 'Introduction to Psychoanalysis' and works by Copernicus, Galileo and Einstein.
http://crasseux.com/books/Emile_Durkheim_-_Th...
You know, it's quite rude to tell a rational adult that their beliefs are "too silly". I hope you don't expect much of a response after a disparaging remark like that.

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