Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258485 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#217180 Mar 6, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>BS, it's the nature of all dogs to be predators and a dog that's bred to be even more aggressive should be against the law. Dogs are unpredictable and many that were previously docile acting have ended up turning on their owners, usually the members of the family that they think they can "take down", the very young and the elderly or crippled.
Dog bites are the second most common injury to children, second to playground accidents, 77% of all dog bites are to the face, which shows intent to kill! No kid deserves to experience that kind of terror or injury.
fu, flametard.
Most breeds have had any aggression bred out of them. Dogs attack when provoked. A small child kicking and punching will bring out a self-preservation action, usually a bite. Most dogs end up being wonderful companions for the elderly, and many are used as therapy for cases of depression and serious illnesses. Dogs have served man for thousands of years, and most are only to willing to serve.

You're cherry picking rare instances to make your weak point, kind of a sad ass tactic, do better!!

BTW where is that evidence I asked for that supports the existence of your God thingy?

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#217181 Mar 6, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Prepare to be schooled...
From Google
Misquote: quote (a person or a piece of written or spoken text) inaccurately.
"the foreign secretary had misquoted Qian"
synonyms: misreport, misrepresent, misstate, take/quote out of context, distort, twist, slant, bias, put a spin on, falsify
Note the synonym "take/quote out of context", which is exactly what your "exact quotes" do. So, yes, your "exact quotes" are misquotes.
Also note the synonym "misrepresent", which your out of context Harris quote also does. So, again, a misquote.
I would think the synonyms "misstate", "distort", "twist", "slant", "bias", and "put a spin on" also apply to many of your "exact quotes".
You misquote a lot.
Every quotation is an out of context quotation. By your assertion, evey quotation is "misquoting". That's why we have rules for using quotations properly - to educate idiots like you.

"....while quoting a person out of context can be done intentionally to advance an agenda or win an argument, it is also possible to remove essential context without the aim to mislead, through not perceiving a change in meaning or implication that may result from quoting what is perceived as the essential crux of a statement."
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#217182 Mar 6, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>Bathroom mirrors everywhere applaud your decision.
Too many cracks muck the view.
Worthless post, do try and do better. But maybe this is all you're capable of......yeah I think thats it..........how pathetic!!!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#217183 Mar 6, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
And you misrepresented him there. His comment included the word "may," which none of Harris' critics here including you seems to have noticed.
EXPERT wrote:
Slow down...or is it just me? To murder an innocent person... Or, Appropriate to kill somebody for a belief... Wouldn't that be two different arguments?
What? Read it again.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Do any of us know what he would answer if asked about that today? It could be something like, "I used to be unsure whether there could be a circumstance wherein it would be appropriate to kill somebody for a belief, but after years of further consideration, I have decided that there is none." That would not be inconsistent with his earlier comment. Would that change anything for you if it were his opinion?
< sound of a pin dropping in the next room >
OG Kush

Jacksonville, FL

#217184 Mar 6, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The Topix Atheist! Saint Harris says there's no such thing as atheist.
-In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist."-
OG begs to differ double r.

The position of the atheist is that the theist has not successfully met his or her burden of proof.

Proof, with regard to gods rests solely with the side claiming their existence.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" Carl Sagan

When phrased to focus on faith, the claim typically centers on a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of atheism.

They have erroneously convinced themselves that atheism means absolute certainty that no gods exist.

They reason that to be absolutely certain without proof is a form of faith.

Atheism is not about certainty at all; it is about doubt.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#217185 Mar 6, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Of course you still think that all Christians churches are alike. Wanna narrow it down to a few churches or just one?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Just the Christian church.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Churches across America are as different and unique as the people across America.


Of course you think that all Americans are alike. Wanna narrow it down to a few Americans or just one?

We refer to the collective of churches, their denizens, their institutions, their bank accounts, their real estate, their ideology, and their history with one phrase - "the church" - just like we refer to the collective of Americans, their physical possessions, their land and resources, their institutions, their ideology, and their history by a single name as you just did - "America"

You're never going to get this, are you?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Check out Harvest Christian Fellowship, here in Riverside. It's the eighth largest Christian church in America. Yup, in "dusty" Riverside, as Feltcher puts it.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
No thanks. But if they have released an independent audit that you can produce, I'll take a look at that.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
What church? Or are you suggesting we check an independent financial audit of an ideology?.


You were hit in the head with a 2x4 this morning, weren't you?

Incidentally, I'm not pushing this boulder uphill for you. Move on.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#217186 Mar 6, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Prepare to be schooled...
From Google
Misquote: quote (a person or a piece of written or spoken text) inaccurately.
"the foreign secretary had misquoted Qian"
synonyms: misreport, misrepresent, misstate, take/quote out of context, distort, twist, slant, bias, put a spin on, falsify
Note the synonym "take/quote out of context", which is exactly what your "exact quotes" do. So, yes, your "exact quotes" are misquotes.
Also note the synonym "misrepresent", which your out of context Harris quote also does. So, again, a misquote.
I would think the synonyms "misstate", "distort", "twist", "slant", "bias", and "put a spin on" also apply to many of your "exact quotes".
You misquote a lot.
English Composition 1

Using Quotations Properly

"It's all right to delete material from a quotation, as long as the deleted material is not vital to the meaning of the quotation and as long as the quoted words convey the same meaning as they do in the source. Note the example below:

Dillard says that the weasel 'bites his prey at the neck [...] and he does not let go.'

Deleting the specifics of how the weasel kills its prey, as in the example above, does not change the meaning of the quoted words."

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#217187 Mar 6, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think Manson killed someone ?
.. astute comment. We can also implement Godwin's law: did Hitler kill millions based on his beliefs ??..

.. people continue to commit murder based on religious beliefs (think 911). But, there are different types of death ..

.. when the Amish 'shun' members that do not conform, is there an emotional or spiritual death? Is the damage irreversible ??..

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#217188 Mar 6, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
He and other members of their terrorist organization were killed because they were enemy combatants who participate in acts of terrorism against the USA and other countries.
Their religion had nothing to do with that, other than they believed in committing international crimes of murder, mayhem, extortion , torture, kidnapping , etc.
.. didn't these 'enemy combatants' kill based on a belief that they were doing God's will ??..

.. what happens if a charismatic Christian leader emerges and tells his/her followers to do the will of Jesus and kill Muslims? What happens ??..

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217189 Mar 6, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't quote him to support a belief, you twit, but to show that he wasn't a rabid, extremist dolt like the Topix atheists.
Hiding: 23

Nano: 4

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217190 Mar 6, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>The point BEING that if all those who pondered the unseen (by the naked eye) and speculated upon its existence allowed themselves to be shamed into abandoning that vein of thinking by biased skeptics like you, there likely wouldn't be much in the way of science existing today.
YOUR kind are the ones who would be responsible for THAT offense against nature, the murdering of true "free thinking", something Harris and his type despises. Now keep defending the loon even at the expense of losing ANY credibility that you ever MIGHT have had, hypocrite.
Hiding: 24

Nano: 4

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217191 Mar 6, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Their god is too small. They are smarter and more moral in their own eyes.
Ok. No worries. Silly little liberal jehovah.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#217192 Mar 6, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Yes, Buck, just as with Barton, providing part of a quote out of context IS misquoting.
Tell that to every Topix Atheist! that cherry picks the Bible.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#217193 Mar 6, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Your argument is twofold:
1. we cannot know anything, b/c absolute knowledge is not possible.{SNIP}
Then you can not justify your saying "your deity does not exist".

Thanks for your help.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217194 Mar 6, 2014
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd added a lot to this discussion and moved it forward.
It's too bad you can't be here...always....<sniffle >
<shudder>

waaaaaah!

<hugs Tide>
I would like to point to the importance of belief structures. Al Qaeda is more than a collection of beliefs, it's a system of installing a specific belief structure, that reliably produces people who act predictably. In that way it is different than the religion that provides the core concepts.
I would also like to point out the difference between the principles that Harris is talking about and the possible applications of it. The practical applications of this principle are highly problematic for a myriad of reasons. It's so messy. We need to acknowledge how far from ideal our responses to threats are.
If you're going to talk about Al Qaeda being separate from its religion, you're going to have to talk about World Systems, power and, specifically, Western power and Western aims. At some point, you're going to have to breach Chomsky.

I already disagree with Harris. Imo, his moral argument fails. I merely provided an example where it succeeds - I'd shoot anyone who threatened my family with a lethal weapon, despite not knowing whether they'd used it in the past. But there's a lot in my example that Harris isn't taking into consideration - like emotional responses, real feelings of danger. No one, even in "Real Politics" makes decisions entirely devoid of emotion.

I already talked about how he lacked a historical perspective in his example, too. History provides context, it is half of everything.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217195 Mar 6, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The common ancestor remains a scientific guess, a myth to those that revere science.
You cannot prove me wrong on this.
It's incredible how ignorant you are. And stupid.

An intelligent and ignorant man would know the limitations of his knowledge, yet you consistently fail in this regard.

Thanks for the example.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217196 Mar 6, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible does not instruct a Christian to kill.
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.(Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live.(Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

You are so full of shit.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217197 Mar 6, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Harris said it may be ethical to do so.
"Some beliefs are so dangerous that it may be ethical to kill people for believing them”
Sam Harris
There is no belief that merits death. There are some actions that do, however.
Actions and beliefs are very different.
Sam Harris is a lunatic, so is anyone that follows him.
Stupid man, he didn't use the word "beliefs." You are misquoting him. Stupid man, you're being intellectually dishonest because you are lying about the context in which Harris uses that sentence.

Fuck, you are stupid. Worse, you absolutely desire to remain stupid. It's the only way you can justify your worthless religion.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#217198 Mar 6, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's check:
<quoted text>
And, what did Harris write? Let's check:
"Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them." - See more at: http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/respo...
So, Buck, why do you continue to read "propositions" as "beliefs"?
So, no, RR misquoted. Your tirade here is incorrect and I accept your apology.
You are correct.

The actual quote from Harris' book, "The End Of Faith: Religion, Terror and the Future of Reason", end of page 52, beginning of page 53:

"The link between beliefs and behavior raises the stakes considerably. Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them. This may seem an extraordinary claim, but it merely enunciates an ordinary fact about the world we live in."

So "proposition" is used and not "belief". So what? Proposing something is offering or suggesting something to be considered. It's very much the same as a belief.

Harris is still a lunatic because he condones killing people for having thoughts.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#217199 Mar 6, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Where were you? In Japan or America?
Shows how little you know.

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