Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 256576 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#215291 Feb 26, 2014
lightbeanrider wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong again.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bibleandculture/...
But Josephus did refer to Jesus, and he does give us some valuable information about him. And he is the first non-Christian source to do so. This is important historical data, as it shows that Jesus was thought of as having lived a real life by the most important Jewish historian of the first century. As such the Testimonium provides us with some much-needed confirmation of information that we can glean from our Christian sources.
Josephus also wrote of Heracles. Josephus wrote about many mythical deities.
http://books.google.com/books...
http://books.google.com/books...
Josephus wrote about other deities more than the mythical Jesus! deity. Using Christian logic, we should believe in all of the deities, not just the Jesus!, yes?
The Tacitus reference is discredited and evidences tampering.
http://www.natzraya.org/Articles/Christian/Ch...
The mentions written down by Tacitus, Josephus, Eusebius etc..., are only representing the legend or myth surrounding the Jesus! They wrote down what was purported to be. Nothing more.

They do not represent first hand knowledge of anything except what was purported to be, and that was long after what was alleged to have happened.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#215292 Feb 26, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Are ou going to prove you have hair?
;o)
Face it - "you don't have hair" - and leave it at that.....
*smiles*
The reports of my hair loss are greatly exaggerated.

:p

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#215293 Feb 26, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
She called you a eunuch.
:o)

Is a "sword-fight" really the answer?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215294 Feb 26, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
I know Christians who are evidence-based thinkers. I know atheists and humanists who are NOT evidence-based thinkers. I know atheists who are not thinkers... period.(Darwins Stepchild; blacklagoon; Karl; Bob of Quantum Faith ...) My observations on the quality of thinking people possess suggests their faith system has little to do with it. Analytics and logic are grasped well by some minds; not so well by others. It usually takes me about two sentences to know which side a person falls on. You are analytical, linear, and logical in your thought process. That's why you became a doctor. You stray sometimes, but luckily, you have me here to snap you back in line.
Thanks for taking my back, Buck, and thanks for the kind words.

Ideas believed beyond the degree warranted by the evidence are in part or whole faith based. That's all the term means. Faith in astrology is faith.

Using such ideas as facts easily lead to unsound conclusions. Whether they are harmful depends on what they are. If you believe that there are angels in heaven, that is probably harmless. If you believe that they will protect you in this life and take excessive risks because of it, the belief can be much more dangerous even though no more unsound. If you make important decision based on your horoscope, you are likely to suffer for the choice.

I admire much of the material from the posters you named, whose names I corrected.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#215295 Feb 26, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe I should call her Mrs RedBoobs.
It is better than "Mrs Red Apples"....

:o)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215296 Feb 26, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I've already explained to you that I am referring to the total number of people murdered by a firearm per state per year.
I don't think anybody cares except you. Why would they, whatever their politics?

I'll bet that the United States has a higher total number of people murdered by a firearm per year than California, Europe higher than that, and the earth higher than that. These additional insights are of the same quality as yours, and have the same value. Well played.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215297 Feb 26, 2014
OG Kush wrote:
I equate the tooth fairy Zeus Jesus Mohammed and Krishna as equal members in the great family of mythical Gods.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Then you have an extremely closed mind.
I doubt that you could define "closed mind" and then show why it applies here.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#215298 Feb 26, 2014
Yesterday, American Atheists (AA) announced that it was going to have a booth at the conservative convention CPAC. AA said that its goal was to show that conservative politics did not have to be wedded to conservative Christianity.

Following the announcement, conservative Christian groups raise a furor.

Today, CPAC announced it was expelling AA. Their excuse is that AA does not have the right "tone".

Recall that last year CPAC expelled the conservative gay group GOProud, again due to complaints from the religious right.

And apparently AA was wrong. Conservative politics must be wedded to conservative Christianity. At least in the view of the extreme right.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#215299 Feb 26, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Josephus also wrote of Heracles. Josephus wrote about many mythical deities.
So? The difference being Ehrman is the expert and you are not.
The mentions written down by Tacitus, Josephus, Eusebius etc..., are only representing the legend or myth surrounding the Jesus! They wrote down what was purported to be. Nothing more.
They used all them to establish existence. You just don't seem to get that. You point out alleged problems with Tacitus but that does not discredit the whole account! They glean out pertinent info in spite of alleged problems or the bias of the writer to establish certain facts which jibe with other accounts. This is not rocket science.
They do not represent first hand knowledge of anything except what was purported to be, and that was long after what was alleged to have happened.
Does not matter. Don't have to be first hand to establish historicity. You have a variety of accounts to within 100 years of the death of Jesus. They had different sources. You have hostile accounts who did not use the Gospels.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215300 Feb 26, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Yes.... "Radically different" to you apparently means "non Christian". What do you think? You think I balance my checkbook based on faith? Only get gas in my car based on faith? Have faith that God will teach me how to stucco rather than learn it for myself? I don't know what Christians you're used to, but I go by evidence and by faith, not just faith alone, especially when it comes to learning something new.
I don't care about your thoughts that don't affect me or the people that I care about. I don't care how you balance your checkbook. I care about the religious opinions that you express when voting, purchasing, donating, and advocating verbally.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#215301 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think anybody cares except you. Why would they, whatever their politics?
I'll bet that the United States has a higher total number of people murdered by a firearm per year than California, Europe higher than that, and the earth higher than that. These additional insights are of the same quality as yours, and have the same value. Well played.
Well played.

Yes, the rest of the United States...sans California...has more liberal gun laws and has a higher gun murder total than California.

By RR's reasoning, this means that liberal gun laws lead to more murders. Clearly.

(The fact the rest of the US has 7 times the population of California has nothing at all to do with it.)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215302 Feb 26, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
1) California has the highest number of gun murders of any state.
2) California has the highest number of Christians of any state.
What do you conclude from these two facts?
Christians are ... made of wood?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#215303 Feb 26, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> So? The difference being Ehrman is the expert and you are not.
Some theistic knowledge about your religion and its origins, from an expert.

Mark Stratton John Matthew Smith (born December 6, 1956) is an American professor and Biblical scholar who currently holds the Skirball Chair of Bible and Ancient Near Eastern Studies in the Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies at New York University.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Smith

Smith has more publications and positions than I could list in two posts.

Quoting:
"Biblical texts do attest to Yahweh and El as different gods sanctioned by early Israel. For example, Genesis 49:24-25 presents a series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18. This passage does not show the relative status of the two gods in early Israel, only that they could be named separately in the same poem.

More helpful is the text of the Septuagint and one of the Dead sea scrolls(4Q Deut) for Deuteronomy 32: 8-9, which cast Yahweh in the role of one of the divine sons, understood as fathered by El, called Elyon in the first line;

"When the Most High Elyon allotted peoples for his inheritance,
When He divided up humanity,
He fixed the boundaries for peoples,
According to the number of the divine sons of El:
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob His own inheritance."

The traditional Hebrew text(MT) perhaps reflects a discomfort with this polytheistic theology of Israel, for it shows in the fourth line not "sons of El" but "sons of Israel". This passage, with the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scroll reading, presents a cosmic order in which each deity received its own nation.

Israel was the nation which Yahweh recieved, yet El was the head of this pantheon and Yahweh only one of it's members. This reading points to an old phase of Israel's religion when El held a pre-eminent position apart from the status of Yahweh.

Apparently, originally El was Israel's chief god, as suggested by the personal name Israel[Is ra El].

Then, when the cult of Yahweh became more important in the land of early Israel, the view reflected in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 served as a mode to accommodate this religious development.

El as a separate god disappeared, perhaps at different rates in different regions. This process may appear to involve Yahweh incorporating El's characteristics, for Yahweh is the eventual historical "winner".

Yet in the pre-monarchic period, the process may be envisioned - at least initially - in the opposite terms: Israelite highland cult sites of El assimilated the outsider, southerner Yahweh.

In comparison, Yahweh in ancient Israel and Baal at Ugarit were both outsider warrior gods who stood second in rank to El, but they eventually overshadowed him in power. Yet Yahweh's development went further. He was identified with El: here the son replaced the father whose name only serves as a title for the son.

This paradigm of convergence of divine identities succeeded the older paradigm of divine succession in the ancient Middle East(for example, Ea's replacement by his son Marduk in Enuma Elish). Indeed the erasure of the father, with the transformation into the son, was a requisite condition for the monotheistic identity of the son." - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts, by Mark S. Smith

"Biblical scholars now recognize that in the pre-exilic era Asherah worship, infant sacrifice, solar veneration, and other religious practices attacked by biblical authors represented normal Israelite worship, while monotheism was a late development in the Babylonian Exile and subsequent years." - Journal of Hebrew Scriptures, in review of Smiths work.

Your entire belief is based upon primitive polytheistic cultures melding of varying tribal beliefs in deities as they moved to monotheism, and does not represent a singular and unique deity in any way.

Myth.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#215304 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Christians are ... made of wood?
LOL

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#215305 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians are ... made of wood?
That Christians can't tell you the relative airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow, whether it is African or European.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#215306 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians are ... made of wood?
Are you familiar with Herman the German?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#215307 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You're a flaming homophobe.

KiMare wrote:
You clearly are a lying, hateful troll.
On what rational basis do you accuse me (a lesbian trapped in a straight man), of being homophobic?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Call it a hunch.
<quoted text>
KiMare wrote:
Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior making ss marriage an oxymoron.

Stating a clear scientific fact is now homophobic?

Smile.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215308 Feb 26, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
The difference being Ehrman is the expert and you are not.
Ehrman has lost credibility. I told you how.
lightbeamrider wrote:
You point out alleged problems with Tacitus but that does not discredit the whole account!
Those problems undermine the credibility of the words attributed to Tacitus, which are already compromised by not being eye-witness testimony
lightbeamrider wrote:
They glean out pertinent info in spite of alleged problems or the bias of the writer to establish certain facts which jibe with other accounts. This is not rocket science.
How do they glean out the truth from mythology? You need to make a compelling argument that they can. Just claiming it is so is probably fine for your apologetics sites, but not here. Christian apologetics don't rise to academic standards. They're simply unacceptable outside of your circles. Isn't that OK?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#215309 Feb 26, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I think it's great when people give of themselves in time, talent, or treasure, but it degrades the act when they crow about it. The only value remaining is the recipient received it (allegedly, of course, as this is an anonymous forum).
IOW, many people here may or may not do for others to varying degrees. It's only those with inferiority issues manifest through passive-aggression that blow about it.
Jesus used even other words, "Let not thy right hand know what thy left hand is doing." (Leastways I think he was talking about charity works;)
When Jesus was so challenged for acts of healing, he asked which one he was being condemned for.

I simply answered a challenge about my behavior as compared to 'rational atheists'.

The 'rational atheist' response has been to scoff, and now to condemn.

Some things never change...

Smirk.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215310 Feb 26, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
Are you familiar with Herman the German?
It appears that there are several, but I am unfamiliar with them all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_the_Germa...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 8 min Aura Mytha 43,313
A Universe from Nothing? 40 min u196533dm 541
News Why Do Atheists Ridicule Christianity? (May '11) 1 hr Eagle 12 10,064
News Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... (Oct '14) 1 hr Eagle 12 21,202
For Atheists: Why do You Call Theories "Scient... 2 hr Eagle 12 770
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 2 hr Eagle 12 18,592
News Who is an atheist? (May '10) 2 hr hpcaban 9,379
More from around the web