Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258475 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215300 Feb 26, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Yes.... "Radically different" to you apparently means "non Christian". What do you think? You think I balance my checkbook based on faith? Only get gas in my car based on faith? Have faith that God will teach me how to stucco rather than learn it for myself? I don't know what Christians you're used to, but I go by evidence and by faith, not just faith alone, especially when it comes to learning something new.
I don't care about your thoughts that don't affect me or the people that I care about. I don't care how you balance your checkbook. I care about the religious opinions that you express when voting, purchasing, donating, and advocating verbally.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#215301 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think anybody cares except you. Why would they, whatever their politics?
I'll bet that the United States has a higher total number of people murdered by a firearm per year than California, Europe higher than that, and the earth higher than that. These additional insights are of the same quality as yours, and have the same value. Well played.
Well played.

Yes, the rest of the United States...sans California...has more liberal gun laws and has a higher gun murder total than California.

By RR's reasoning, this means that liberal gun laws lead to more murders. Clearly.

(The fact the rest of the US has 7 times the population of California has nothing at all to do with it.)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215302 Feb 26, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
1) California has the highest number of gun murders of any state.
2) California has the highest number of Christians of any state.
What do you conclude from these two facts?
Christians are ... made of wood?

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#215303 Feb 26, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> So? The difference being Ehrman is the expert and you are not.
Some theistic knowledge about your religion and its origins, from an expert.

Mark Stratton John Matthew Smith (born December 6, 1956) is an American professor and Biblical scholar who currently holds the Skirball Chair of Bible and Ancient Near Eastern Studies in the Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies at New York University.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Smith

Smith has more publications and positions than I could list in two posts.

Quoting:
"Biblical texts do attest to Yahweh and El as different gods sanctioned by early Israel. For example, Genesis 49:24-25 presents a series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18. This passage does not show the relative status of the two gods in early Israel, only that they could be named separately in the same poem.

More helpful is the text of the Septuagint and one of the Dead sea scrolls(4Q Deut) for Deuteronomy 32: 8-9, which cast Yahweh in the role of one of the divine sons, understood as fathered by El, called Elyon in the first line;

"When the Most High Elyon allotted peoples for his inheritance,
When He divided up humanity,
He fixed the boundaries for peoples,
According to the number of the divine sons of El:
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob His own inheritance."

The traditional Hebrew text(MT) perhaps reflects a discomfort with this polytheistic theology of Israel, for it shows in the fourth line not "sons of El" but "sons of Israel". This passage, with the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scroll reading, presents a cosmic order in which each deity received its own nation.

Israel was the nation which Yahweh recieved, yet El was the head of this pantheon and Yahweh only one of it's members. This reading points to an old phase of Israel's religion when El held a pre-eminent position apart from the status of Yahweh.

Apparently, originally El was Israel's chief god, as suggested by the personal name Israel[Is ra El].

Then, when the cult of Yahweh became more important in the land of early Israel, the view reflected in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 served as a mode to accommodate this religious development.

El as a separate god disappeared, perhaps at different rates in different regions. This process may appear to involve Yahweh incorporating El's characteristics, for Yahweh is the eventual historical "winner".

Yet in the pre-monarchic period, the process may be envisioned - at least initially - in the opposite terms: Israelite highland cult sites of El assimilated the outsider, southerner Yahweh.

In comparison, Yahweh in ancient Israel and Baal at Ugarit were both outsider warrior gods who stood second in rank to El, but they eventually overshadowed him in power. Yet Yahweh's development went further. He was identified with El: here the son replaced the father whose name only serves as a title for the son.

This paradigm of convergence of divine identities succeeded the older paradigm of divine succession in the ancient Middle East(for example, Ea's replacement by his son Marduk in Enuma Elish). Indeed the erasure of the father, with the transformation into the son, was a requisite condition for the monotheistic identity of the son." - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts, by Mark S. Smith

"Biblical scholars now recognize that in the pre-exilic era Asherah worship, infant sacrifice, solar veneration, and other religious practices attacked by biblical authors represented normal Israelite worship, while monotheism was a late development in the Babylonian Exile and subsequent years." - Journal of Hebrew Scriptures, in review of Smiths work.

Your entire belief is based upon primitive polytheistic cultures melding of varying tribal beliefs in deities as they moved to monotheism, and does not represent a singular and unique deity in any way.

Myth.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#215304 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Christians are ... made of wood?
LOL

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#215305 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians are ... made of wood?
That Christians can't tell you the relative airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow, whether it is African or European.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#215306 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians are ... made of wood?
Are you familiar with Herman the German?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#215307 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You're a flaming homophobe.

KiMare wrote:
You clearly are a lying, hateful troll.
On what rational basis do you accuse me (a lesbian trapped in a straight man), of being homophobic?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Call it a hunch.
<quoted text>
KiMare wrote:
Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior making ss marriage an oxymoron.

Stating a clear scientific fact is now homophobic?

Smile.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215308 Feb 26, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
The difference being Ehrman is the expert and you are not.
Ehrman has lost credibility. I told you how.
lightbeamrider wrote:
You point out alleged problems with Tacitus but that does not discredit the whole account!
Those problems undermine the credibility of the words attributed to Tacitus, which are already compromised by not being eye-witness testimony
lightbeamrider wrote:
They glean out pertinent info in spite of alleged problems or the bias of the writer to establish certain facts which jibe with other accounts. This is not rocket science.
How do they glean out the truth from mythology? You need to make a compelling argument that they can. Just claiming it is so is probably fine for your apologetics sites, but not here. Christian apologetics don't rise to academic standards. They're simply unacceptable outside of your circles. Isn't that OK?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#215309 Feb 26, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I think it's great when people give of themselves in time, talent, or treasure, but it degrades the act when they crow about it. The only value remaining is the recipient received it (allegedly, of course, as this is an anonymous forum).
IOW, many people here may or may not do for others to varying degrees. It's only those with inferiority issues manifest through passive-aggression that blow about it.
Jesus used even other words, "Let not thy right hand know what thy left hand is doing." (Leastways I think he was talking about charity works;)
When Jesus was so challenged for acts of healing, he asked which one he was being condemned for.

I simply answered a challenge about my behavior as compared to 'rational atheists'.

The 'rational atheist' response has been to scoff, and now to condemn.

Some things never change...

Smirk.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215310 Feb 26, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
Are you familiar with Herman the German?
It appears that there are several, but I am unfamiliar with them all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_the_Germa...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#215311 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
The Church cannot impose its values.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It can and does. That is because it is respected by a majority, which it influences.
You need to learn the difference between 'impose' and 'influence'. It's a big one.

Moreover, if 'rational theists' had a valid position, they would have the respect.

Another epic fail. Perhaps you should try prayer?

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#215312 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
So 'rational atheists' can't see...
The fulfilled prophecy of the Jewish culture.
The fulfilled prophecy of the Christian Church.
A single country in world history that poster child models their fantasy of a atheistic, religion free, society.
There are none so blind as those who will not see...
Smirk.
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you believe fallible men are accurate in their theology?
I made no such assertion.

I simply noted that two prophecies in ancient writings are phenomenally fulfilled in our time.

You have no explanation.

Smile.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215313 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior making ss marriage an oxymoron. Stating a clear scientific fact is now homophobic? Smile.
No, but you are.

And you're short one scientific fact. Your faith based judgments are substance free, meaning that they make no claim about any aspect of reality outside of your head. All that is true is that gay sex doesn't lead to pregnancy, and you choose to cite that irrelevant fact as a reason to impede the pursuit of happiness of others. You are disrespected for being willing to think that way, and even more so for not realizing how reprehensible expressing such an opinion is to others.

Sorry, but as I implied to Riverside Redneck and lightbeamrider, that's how it is on this side of faith. You don't have to like our values or methods, nor understand nor conform to them.

But you can't expect not to be reviled and rebuked if you flout them.

We have a voice now, and we have some things to say about your church. This is humanism, the movement that sees man as having limitless potential, and which sees the Christian values that contradict it as irrational, sterile, morally bankrupt, and foolish.

If humanist wrest cultural hegemony from the church, it will be humanists defining the church as outside of mainstream values. Sorry, but you're going to lose this one. You might take that into consideration as you plan how you would like to turn over the reins: gracefully and democratically, or screaming at the tops of your lungs - especially people like you.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215314 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
When Jesus was so challenged for acts of healing, he asked which one he was being condemned for.
And Santa said, "Ho, ho, ho!"
KiMare wrote:
I simply answered a challenge about my behavior as compared to 'rational atheists'. The 'rational atheist' response has been to scoff, and now to condemn. Some things never change... Smirk.
Scoff? It's way beyond that. And you are correct, that is unlikely to change as that behavior of yours. You are being treated as you treat others.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#215315 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Perhaps you should try prayer? Smile.
Shall I pray for your cardiovascular system?

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#215316 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
The Church cannot impose its values.
<quoted text>
You need to learn the difference between 'impose' and 'influence'. It's a big one.
Moreover, if 'rational theists' had a valid position, they would have the respect.
Another epic fail. Perhaps you should try prayer?
Smile.
.. of course believers try to impose their moral values on society, it's called the political process ..

.. to silence legal dissent would violate the 1st Amendment ..

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#215317 Feb 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Perhaps you should try prayer? Smile.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Shall I pray for your cardiovascular system?
I'm going to pray that his nose doesn't turn into an arm.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#215318 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It appears that there are several, but I am unfamiliar with them all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_the_Germa...
That's an old Herman.

Herman the German is the biggest crane in the world. It's in the Long Beach port.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#215319 Feb 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think anybody cares except you. Why would they, whatever their politics?
I'll bet that the United States has a higher total number of people murdered by a firearm per year than California, Europe higher than that, and the earth higher than that. These additional insights are of the same quality as yours, and have the same value. Well played.
What you're not taking into account is California's overall murder rate.

Murders by firearm are incredibly high, you'd think that the overall murder rate (by any means) would also be high. But it isn't.

The truth is, in 2011, California had a total of 1,792 murders, 1220 of which were done with a firearm. That's about 70% of all murders in CA are done with a gun. WTF? Those numbers are drastically skewed.

And those stats are only murders, not attempted murders, car jackings, robberies, etc.

Also, has anyone tried calculating the importance of the number of gun laws in CA compared to the number of gun laws in LA?

It still seems that strict gun laws only promote more gun violence.

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