Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258482 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212555 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
So you will accept modern scientific theory if an expanding Universe that is slowing down, correct?
Now just how old do you claim our solar system is?

The universe isn't slowing down.
I don't claim the age of our solar system, but the consensus says it's just slightly older than Earth . Earth 4.54 Solar system 4.68 billion years.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212557 Feb 15, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
There several more pieces of evidence for King David, but the latest is they think they have found his palace or castle what ever. It isn't the existence of David that has been in question, it is the acts and importance as well as the true power of him as a King that has been in question. It is thought all of those things were greatly exaggerated and some outright fictitious. Hence King David was a minor player and had no real power in the world.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/...
OK, and thanks for that. This was addressed in the documentary I saw as well. I recall them showing a map connecting the Egyptian and Mesopotamian empires with David's Kingdom, then revising it to show that region shrinking as they reassessed and downsized their estimate of the scale of that kingdom.

You can review this beginning at about 1:09:00 at this link
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b...

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#212558 Feb 15, 2014
scaritual wrote:

I never said, or even suggested, what you are attempting to assert I presented in the links. You asked about evidence. Which is what was supplied - 4 links - that spoke about that very thing, evidence.
For instance:

New archeological evidence is throwing cold water on the biblical image of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph riding camels through the desert.
A team of Israeli archaeologists has studied the oldest-known camel bones from this ancient period and the results are in — camels reportedly started plodding around the eastern Mediterranean region centuries after the Bible tells us they did.
After analyzing the facts from radioactive-carbon dating, Erez Ben-Yosef and Lidar Sapir-Hen of Tel Aviv University claim the domesticated animal arrived on the biblical scene near the 10th century B.C. Scholars believe Abraham lived at least six centuries before that(...)
Stories about camels in the Bible “do not encapsulate memories from the second millennium,” said Noam Mizrahi, an Israeli biblical scholar,“but should be viewed as back-projections from a much later period.”
Still, stories about the Jewish patriarchs contain more than 20 references to the domesticated camel, according to The New York Times. In Genesis 24, Abraham sends his servant to find a wife for his son Isaac. The servant traveled on his master’s camels.(...)
The research suggests that camels were introduced to the region suddenly, perhaps as Egyptians traveled along the Mediterranean trade routes.
But Bible defenders claim that even though the findings challenge the ancient text’s time line, they do not detract from the overall spiritual message.
If the biblical writers are not interested in the facts, but rather in getting a message across, then people of faith can concentrate, instead of trying to verify every last item in the Bible, on what the overall message of the story is, not whether it is historically true,” said Carol Meyers, a religion professor at Duke University."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/archaeo...

"The discovery is actually far from new. William Foxwell Albright, the leading American archeologist and biblical scholar who confirmed the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls, argued in the mid-1900s that camels were an anachronism. Historian Richard Bulliet of Columbia University explored the topic in his 1975 book, The Camel and the Wheel, and concluded that “the occasional mention of camels in patriarchal narratives does not mean that the domestic camels were common in the Holy Land at that period.”
Biblical History 101 teaches that the texts themselves were often written centuries after the events they depict."
http://world.time.com/2014/02/11/the-mystery-...
That is an accurate overview of what the links presented.

Maybe you'd be better off sticking to the biblical myths, sugartits.
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
EX{ERT is just full of shi'ite. If you provide sources, he'll say you are just parroting others and dismiss what you say. If you don't provide sources, he'll complain about that and dismiss what you say.
You can't win with him because he is inherently dishonest.
Yeah, but he asks for the evidence, and in doing that, we can post the findings by scientists, researchers and - real experts - in the field or subject.

I don't expect to sway the currently named troll, "EXPERT", at all.

What it does do is allow the opportunity to supply information for anyone interested that is reading along. When you responded to my earlier post, you supplied it in full. That's two times it's been presented.

I supplied it again, above. Presented three times, now.



About the only thing he's an "expert" at is in assisting the information to be seen multiple times.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212559 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
You said you agree with modern science, but disagree that the expansion of the universe is not slowing down.
So are you taking the position it is speeding up or remains at a constant?
Do you agree that the expansion of the universe is not slowing down or do you disagree that the expansion of the universe is slowing down? At what point from the singularity did the universe start slowing down or stop expanding, approximately?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212562 Feb 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
I may have to sit down and watch the show again. You might notice that not one theist has commented on it, pretty clearly indicating none of them watched it.
And they won't.Why would they? It is of the world, not the church.

We and they represent are two rival traditions that vary according to whom we trust (academic sources versus the bible and church apologists), how does one learn (from studying evidence or by faith in the bible and church spokespersons), and what does one value (pursuit of knowledge of the world versus pursuit of salvation) to name a few.

The faithful are forced again and again to disregard whatever challenges their faith, whether than be the theory of evolution or the history of camelid domestication in the Middle East.

If the Abrahamic religions happen to be wrong, such a program can only lead to a severely distorted mental map of the world, one with relatively little feature drawn in, and that little bit being largely incorrect.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212563 Feb 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, and thanks for that. This was addressed in the documentary I saw as well. I recall them showing a map connecting the Egyptian and Mesopotamian empires with David's Kingdom, then revising it to show that region shrinking as they reassessed and downsized their estimate of the scale of that kingdom.
You can review this beginning at about 1:09:00 at this link
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b...

Saw It, I've seen every one of them lol.
The one I haven't seen all of is Bible Secrets Revealed.
Part 1 is "lost in translation"
I saw it but can't see it again , or rather can't find it free to watch, but it too is a series
I want to watch. It's interesting for instance they uncover that the Jesus and the prostitute story " cast the first stone" Is a complete insertion , it wasn't in there.
There are others. Also mucho stuff has completely been changed by mistranslation.
These bible scholars say there is hardly anything that is written it , saying what was intended to be said.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212564 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike AM, I side with the modern scientific position. How about you?

The universe is speeding up, not slowing down. It came as a shock to science when that was found out. In fact the farther away the galaxy, the faster it's moving away.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212565 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike AM, I side with the modern scientific position. How about you?
So you agree that the universe is moving beyond the speed of light?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212566 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
You present speculation as fact, you are ignorant!
The fact that evidence for domesticated camels existed 3000bc in Babylonian and Egyptian histories proves you are the fool.
Funny thing is...it was Jewish archeologists from Israel that uncovered the fact. So they are refuting their own book and people.
Why do you suppose they would do that if it weren't true?

http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/ben-yosef/pub/Pu...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212567 Feb 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
That is newer than the information I had available.
Thanx.
Aura Mytha wrote:
There still isn't any evidence that proves it's Davids, that may surface. The only thing for sure is it's the right time frame and the largest palace in the period.
It may turn out to be something else altogether, but it's the biggest contender to be Davids ever found.
This is the tradition of which I am proud: the cooperative search for knowledge ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dia... ) wherever it may take us, where knowledge is defined as useful ideas based on reason and evidence.

This is what rational skeptics do that distinguishes us from the faith based alternative. It's nice to see us cooperating, mutually respectful, sharing quality information, and growing together. Those are the values and methods of a great tradition that is leading the world out of darkness, has borne impressive fruit, and which brings people together.

Contrast that with the divisive, tribalistic, and sterile values and methods this newer tradition is replacing.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212570 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, so you claim the universe is accelerating. Fine.
If this were true, knowing that currently the Earth rotates approximately every 24hrs, and the fact that you claim the earth to be over 4billion years, correct?

These aren't my claims, these are the measurements done by scientists Saul Perlmutter, and Brian P. Schmidt.

The 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics were both awarded to Saul Perlmutter, Brian P. Schmidt for discovering this in 1998.
Current estimate is Earth is 4.54 billion years old.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212572 Feb 15, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
These aren't my claims, these are the measurements done by scientists Saul Perlmutter, and Brian P. Schmidt.
The 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics were both awarded to Saul Perlmutter, Brian P. Schmidt for discovering this in 1998.
Current estimate is Earth is 4.54 billion years old.
Blasphemer !!!

It's 4.5345554586 billion years old.

Get it right, dude.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#212573 Feb 15, 2014
scaritual wrote:

I never said, or even suggested, what you are attempting to assert I presented in the links. You asked about evidence. Which is what was supplied - 4 links - that spoke about that very thing, evidence.
For instance:

New archeological evidence is throwing cold water on the biblical image of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph riding camels through the desert.
A team of Israeli archaeologists has studied the oldest-known camel bones from this ancient period and the results are in — camels reportedly started plodding around the eastern Mediterranean region centuries after the Bible tells us they did.
After analyzing the facts from radioactive-carbon dating, Erez Ben-Yosef and Lidar Sapir-Hen of Tel Aviv University claim the domesticated animal arrived on the biblical scene near the 10th century B.C. Scholars believe Abraham lived at least six centuries before that(...)
Stories about camels in the Bible “do not encapsulate memories from the second millennium,” said Noam Mizrahi, an Israeli biblical scholar,“but should be viewed as back-projections from a much later period.”
Still, stories about the Jewish patriarchs contain more than 20 references to the domesticated camel, according to The New York Times. In Genesis 24, Abraham sends his servant to find a wife for his son Isaac. The servant traveled on his master’s camels.(...)
The research suggests that camels were introduced to the region suddenly, perhaps as Egyptians traveled along the Mediterranean trade routes.
But Bible defenders claim that even though the findings challenge the ancient text’s time line, they do not detract from the overall spiritual message.
If the biblical writers are not interested in the facts, but rather in getting a message across, then people of faith can concentrate, instead of trying to verify every last item in the Bible, on what the overall message of the story is, not whether it is historically true,” said Carol Meyers, a religion professor at Duke University."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/archaeo...

"The discovery is actually far from new. William Foxwell Albright, the leading American archeologist and biblical scholar who confirmed the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls, argued in the mid-1900s that camels were an anachronism. Historian Richard Bulliet of Columbia University explored the topic in his 1975 book, The Camel and the Wheel, and concluded that “the occasional mention of camels in patriarchal narratives does not mean that the domestic camels were common in the Holy Land at that period.”
Biblical History 101 teaches that the texts themselves were often written centuries after the events they depict."
http://world.time.com/2014/02/11/the-mystery-...
That is an accurate overview of what the links presented.

Maybe you'd be better off sticking to the biblical myths, sugartits.
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Posting a link is not evidence it is an appeal.
Didn't expect you to fight your own battle.


Presented five times now.

Let's go for six.




That's right, get out there and work for me, sugartits.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#212574 Feb 15, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
IIRC, it was Solomon rather than David that can be linked to. The only archeological evidence of Davie is a stone monument mentioning a particular Judean king (who we know to be historical) being of "the House of David". While this is some indication of the historicity of David, there is also the possibility that "the House of David" was merely a title based on mythology. But, as the program pointed out, it has been a quite some time since historians and archeologists have considered the Bible to be a reliable guide.
<quoted text>
There several more pieces of evidence for King David, but the latest is they think they have found his palace or castle what ever. It isn't the existence of David that has been in question, it is the acts and importance as well as the true power of him as a King that has been in question. It is thought all of those things were greatly exaggerated and some outright fictitious. Hence King David was a minor player and had no real power in the world.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/...
The moderns assumed David was mythical until proven wrong. That means the moderns were wrong and the ancients were right. Now the moderns are saying David was not as important a figure but if the moderns were wrong about the existence of the David kingdom in the first place why would anyone assume they would be right about the importance of his kingdom? They have already been discredited. Same with Noah. There is multiple written accounts of the event yet most moderns dismiss it as myth. The written accounts is evidence from history and the ancients treated the event as history but the moderns know better than everyone else. Most of your moderns make certain base assumptions about the Bible. Namely it is myth and go from there. This all ignores the fact the moderns have been proven wrong time and again when it comes to Scripture.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212575 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever! Point is that you agree with that claim and the Universe is accelerating, yes? This is your position, correct?
No it isn't a position nor is it mine.
I agree the measurements show the universe is speeding up.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#212577 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Try to pull up your skirt and fight your own battle, cowards.
Oh, I dont have to pull up my kilt to reach the knife.
It's in my sock.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212579 Feb 15, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Blasphemer !!!
It's 4.5345554586 billion years old.
Get it right, dude.
lol

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212580 Feb 15, 2014
scaritual wrote:
scaritual wrote:
I never said, or even suggested, what you are attempting to assert I presented in the links. You asked about evidence. Which is what was supplied - 4 links - that spoke about that very thing, evidence.
For instance:
New archeological evidence is throwing cold water on the biblical image of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph riding camels through the desert.
A team of Israeli archaeologists has studied the oldest-known camel bones from this ancient period and the results are in — camels reportedly started plodding around the eastern Mediterranean region centuries after the Bible tells us they did.
After analyzing the facts from radioactive-carbon dating, Erez Ben-Yosef and Lidar Sapir-Hen of Tel Aviv University claim the domesticated animal arrived on the biblical scene near the 10th century B.C. Scholars believe Abraham lived at least six centuries before that(...)
Stories about camels in the Bible “do not encapsulate memories from the second millennium,” said Noam Mizrahi, an Israeli biblical scholar,“but should be viewed as back-projections from a much later period.”
Still, stories about the Jewish patriarchs contain more than 20 references to the domesticated camel, according to The New York Times. In Genesis 24, Abraham sends his servant to find a wife for his son Isaac. The servant traveled on his master’s camels.(...)
The research suggests that camels were introduced to the region suddenly, perhaps as Egyptians traveled along the Mediterranean trade routes.
But Bible defenders claim that even though the findings challenge the ancient text’s time line, they do not detract from the overall spiritual message.
If the biblical writers are not interested in the facts, but rather in getting a message across, then people of faith can concentrate, instead of trying to verify every last item in the Bible, on what the overall message of the story is, not whether it is historically true,” said Carol Meyers, a religion professor at Duke University."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/archaeo...
"The discovery is actually far from new. William Foxwell Albright, the leading American archeologist and biblical scholar who confirmed the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls, argued in the mid-1900s that camels were an anachronism. Historian Richard Bulliet of Columbia University explored the topic in his 1975 book, The Camel and the Wheel, and concluded that “the occasional mention of camels in patriarchal narratives does not mean that the domestic camels were common in the Holy Land at that period.”
Biblical History 101 teaches that the texts themselves were often written centuries after the events they depict."
http://world.time.com/2014/02/11/the-mystery-...
That is an accurate overview of what the links presented.
Maybe you'd be better off sticking to the biblical myths, sugartits.
<quoted text>
Presented five times now.
Let's go for six.
That's right, get out there and work for me, sugartits.
Really? Sugartits?

That was rude.

Oh wait, I'm River Tam.

Never mind.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212581 Feb 15, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> The moderns assumed David was mythical until proven wrong. That means the moderns were wrong and the ancients were right. Now the moderns are saying David was not as important a figure but if the moderns were wrong about the existence of the David kingdom in the first place why would anyone assume they would be right about the importance of his kingdom? They have already been discredited. Same with Noah. There is multiple written accounts of the event yet most moderns dismiss it as myth. The written accounts is evidence from history and the ancients treated the event as history but the moderns know better than everyone else. Most of your moderns make certain base assumptions about the Bible. Namely it is myth and go from there. This all ignores the fact the moderns have been proven wrong time and again when it comes to Scripture.
David was a homosexual.

That's OK, right?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212582 Feb 15, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> The moderns assumed David was mythical until proven wrong. That means the moderns were wrong and the ancients were right. Now the moderns are saying David was not as important a figure but if the moderns were wrong about the existence of the David kingdom in the first place why would anyone assume they would be right about the importance of his kingdom? They have already been discredited. Same with Noah. There is multiple written accounts of the event yet most moderns dismiss it as myth. The written accounts is evidence from history and the ancients treated the event as history but the moderns know better than everyone else. Most of your moderns make certain base assumptions about the Bible. Namely it is myth and go from there. This all ignores the fact the moderns have been proven wrong time and again when it comes to Scripture.
Because simply that there are other countries of significant power around Israel at the time.
Their histories written do not reflect that Israel has a powerful kingdom, however they do mention the ones that do. You see nations can't exist invisibly to their neighbors, and any history of Mexico is going to be mentioning the US and vice versa. Can you imagine a countries history where the Greeks were next door during the height of Greek power where they forgot to mention the Greeks were at the doorstep?
How about Rome just forgetting to mention Hannibal ? That's how we know LBR.

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