Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“Turning coffee into theorems”

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#212209
Feb 12, 2014
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I have all of history from which to choose-- your religion is **still** responsible for more atrocity than any other-- if you factor in the ratio of people per 1000 killed because of your sort of faith.
The muslims have much catching up to do-- if they wish to surpass your religion's ugly record.
Christianity had a 500 year head start, and has always had more followers than Islam.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

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#212210
Feb 12, 2014
 
Zachary Gima wrote:
<quoted text>Even though I am not a communist sympathizer, I repeat I AM NOT a communist sympathizer, when the collapse of the Soviet Union took place and in particular the Republic of Yugoslavia was dissolved, religious repression was lifted. Once this happened, friendly neighbors for 30 years or more instantly became mortal enemies based on religious and ethnic differences with genocide ensuing immediately.
What made the former Yugoslavia really bad is that you had 3 major religious groups...Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Muslims...all intermixed. And all claiming the others were the spawn of Satan. Hatreds there go back centuries.

Just to point out, Yugoslavia was not under the thumb of the Soviet Union. It had a rather milder form of Communism. It did not, however, put up with sectarian violence.
blacklagoon

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#212211
Feb 12, 2014
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My ancestors left the UK, and Europe for a reason.
From this migration based on hope and faith a nation was born. Unlike any nation on the Earth. The only nation that has sent men to walk on the moon. The most powerful superpower on the face of the Earth. The United States of America.
It is my observation mans inhumanity to mankind supersedes anything that God has done. Yet you ridicule God why your fellow man waits to kill you.
Yes it is this same God that freed the slaves from the hardships in Egypt. He must not have been committed to slavery that much since he set the slaves free. It is this act that gave courage to those African Americans who were in bondage.
For they cried out to God for freedom and freedom did come. For today this great nation has a President of African ancestry. And there will be others to follow in history.
This same God never once condoned rape of any kind. It was forbidden. Although it is commonly perceived by those lacking in faith to skew the truth. The facts are and will be forever that rape is a sin and a crime against humanity.
And Hitler whom you Atheist frequently and proudly proclaim was a Christian. Has his place in the lake of fire with Satan his father. For this we know that people claim to be and what they are in reality can be completely different.
For Hitler had the demonic mind of psychopathic killer that masked himself under auspices of Christianity. Only a fool would believe him to be a genuine Christian. And not to our surprise fools believe this nonsense.
Ok, point by point:

1.) Man's inhumanity towards man is indeed horrific, and it occurs for many reasons, but you can't avoid the fact that is some, not all cases, religion was the cause, as in the crusades and the inquisition. Greed, power, and in some cases survival, were the causes. But shall we examine the biggest case of genocide on the planet, and its cause? According to your bible your God flooded the entire planet, killing everything, men, women, children, babies, fetuses, animals, plants, fish, and the reason? Not greed, not for power, certainly not for survival, but because he was angry. Doesn't this seem like kind of a silly reason to slaughter all life on the planet save a few? No mi'm sure you will find some twisted excuse for this wanton act of murder.

2.)Your God commanded Moses to lay waste to an entire city, hundreds of thousands of men, women and children, animals to. He then ordered Moses to spare all of the virgins, just how this was determined makes my skin crawl. These virgins, as God instructed, were to be given to the soldiers as "spoils of war" Now don't for one moment tell me that you are so naive that you think hardened men being awarded a young virgin simply held her hand and and asked her to cook him a meal. How many of these young girls who had just watched their fathers, mothers, brothers, slaughtered, were anxious to have sexual relations with men who had murdered their families? How many under a normal circumstance would have willingly lied down for a stranger? Do you know what it is called when a young girl has sex forced on her, thats right, it's called RAPE and your God was fully aware of what would happen to these young girls when handed over to these soldiers. Your God therefore condones rape.

3.)There is NO evidence that God freed the slaves for Egypt, nor is there any evidence that that the Egyptians held thousands of Hebrew slaves. Israeli Archeologists scoured the desert looking for any evidence that thousands had wander in this area for 40 years. They unearthed NO artifacts, NO bones, NO burial sites, they found NOTHING were thousands of people roamed for 40 years. Conclusion.........The exodus never happened, just another fictitious story in your holy book.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

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#212212
Feb 12, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, when I was still to be counted a Christian, the Xmas thing was one they really ranted about. Leaving the Christ out of Christmas.

BUT...from early Christian times, X was a symbol for Christ, a version of the cross. Early Christians would have considered Xmas and Xtian as perfectly acceptable terminology.

But Christians have always had a persecution complex, and they absolutely LOVE to gripe about how downtrodden they are. This is just one more aspect of their faux outrage.
Maybe if their church didn't kill and abuse so many, someone might care or even believe they're downtrodden.
blacklagoon

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#212213
Feb 12, 2014
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My ancestors left the UK, and Europe for a reason.
From this migration based on hope and faith a nation was born. Unlike any nation on the Earth. The only nation that has sent men to walk on the moon. The most powerful superpower on the face of the Earth. The United States of America.
It is my observation mans inhumanity to mankind supersedes anything that God has done. Yet you ridicule God why your fellow man waits to kill you.
Yes it is this same God that freed the slaves from the hardships in Egypt. He must not have been committed to slavery that much since he set the slaves free. It is this act that gave courage to those African Americans who were in bondage.
For they cried out to God for freedom and freedom did come. For today this great nation has a President of African ancestry. And there will be others to follow in history.
This same God never once condoned rape of any kind. It was forbidden. Although it is commonly perceived by those lacking in faith to skew the truth. The facts are and will be forever that rape is a sin and a crime against humanity.
And Hitler whom you Atheist frequently and proudly proclaim was a Christian. Has his place in the lake of fire with Satan his father. For this we know that people claim to be and what they are in reality can be completely different.
For Hitler had the demonic mind of psychopathic killer that masked himself under auspices of Christianity. Only a fool would believe him to be a genuine Christian. And not to our surprise fools believe this nonsense.
Continued:

4.) Hitler made references to your God in many of his speeches, the word GOD was present on the belt buckle of every single soldier in his army. The Catholic Church celebrated his birthday on many occasions, and he was NEVER excommunicated by the Church for his crimes against mankind.

Hitler is simply dead, as are all those who's lives have ended, there is no evidence that life continues after death and certainly no evidence for either heaven or hell. I'm always at a loss to figure out why you think some kind of cosmic justice exists.

You doctrine is so dysfunctional, here is a prime example.

Rejecting Jesus and or God is considered the one unpardonable sin punishable by being throw into those lakes of fire you think exist. I could in fact be a very decent human being, a loving husband and father, going out of my way the help the needy, give to charities, but because I am unable, due to the critical thinking ability given to me by this God, to believe in Jesus or God, I am condemned to eternal torture.

Now we have a serial killer who specializes in young children. He lives to commit horrendous acts of cruelty. He kidnaps, and then slowly, ever so slowly tortures them. He keeps them alive for days and weeks, the agony for these poor children never seems to end. And when he tires of his sick game, he rapes and then murders them. A prime candidate for eternal torture right? Wrong, all this sick individual must do is to be "saved" renounce his sins and accept Jesus Christ as his savior, and he has punched his ticket to eternal bliss in heaven.

It's a sick and twisted doctrine, how anyone with any intelligence can accept such bullshit will remain a mystery to me.
blacklagoon

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#212214
Feb 12, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I equated specific points of the Creation story to science.
You didn't because you can't.
Smirk.
No you DIDN'T equate specific points of the creation story to science, you re-interprited them so you could get them to align with science. This is not only extremely dishonest and desperate, it's down right stupid. Point of fact, the order of creation stated in Genesis does not even come close to the order that science shows us to be true. Meaningless words in a holy book verses evidence based information provided by science. It's no contest for the intelligent and critical thinkers. Sorry you're not on the list!!!!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#212215
Feb 12, 2014
 

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Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Christianity had a 500 year head start, and has always had more followers than Islam.
Yes, that's true. If you factor it as deaths per 1000 people, they hold a record that is unlikely to ever be surpassed by anyone.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#212216
Feb 12, 2014
 

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Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe if their church didn't kill and abuse so many, someone might care or even believe they're downtrodden.
Maybe.

It's really hard to sympathize with an institutional bully, though.

Especially as how they enjoy a tax exempt free ride on the backs of taxpayers...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#212217
Feb 12, 2014
 

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Zachary Gima wrote:
<quoted text>Even though I am not a communist sympathizer, I repeat I AM NOT a communist sympathizer, when the collapse of the Soviet Union took place and in particular the Republic of Yugoslavia was dissolved, religious repression was lifted. Once this happened, friendly neighbors for 30 years or more instantly became mortal enemies based on religious and ethnic differences with genocide ensuing immediately.
Yes, there are a boatload of justified criticism of the old USSR, for sure.

But one of them that isn't true, is they were lawless.

It's been said, that during the height of the USSR, a person could walk down the streets of Moscow with a pocket full of money (so long as it was Official Rubles, naturally) and not worry about criminals.

On the other hand? Nobody-- absolutely *nobody* was safe, if the KGB had their number...

I'm not surprised that the USSR kept a lid on religious violence-- it was the wrong sort of violence, you see-- not KGB-sanctioned.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#212218
Feb 12, 2014
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
How very Atheist of you.
I see you are continuing to be congenial and making friends.
Bob, it’s only February. You have a whole year to go to spew hate. Pace yourself my friend.
Even **more** irony!

Note the poster above-- one of the most *hate*-spewing and **judgmental** of all the god-robots on Topix! So called "eagle 12"....(a disgrace to the symbol of the eagle)

Irony! You betcha-- these godbots cannot stand with their own bullshyt is thrown back at them.

Who would your Jesus want you to hate, Godbot? Hmmm?

LMAO!

I just love irony on the interwebs.

You are a credit to your cult of hate, Eagle.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#212219
Feb 12, 2014
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
I see you are continuing to be congenial and making friends.
... pssst: I'm not your friend. I have no wish to become one. You are way, way to judgmental hand full of hatred.

Life is too short, to waste it on the likes of you.

Your Jesus would so *not* be proud of you about right now, I bet...

... what was that "a soft answer turneth away anger" that you didn't understand?

... hmmm?

(laughing even harder at your red-faced spluttering about right now...)

Since: Sep 10

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#212220
Feb 12, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I equated specific points of the Creation story to science.
You didn't because you can't.
Smirk.
A decent Christian dosn't smirk at others.

It's in the Bible somewhere.

And if it isn't, it should be.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#212221
Feb 12, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I sure hope you get that heaven that they promised you, because if you don't, you gave away everything for nothing in return. Seriously - what did you get for all of that time, money and lost opportunity if you don't get heaven?
Bongo wrote:
Scripture clearly says that God is a debtor to no man. Anyone who gives in faith is reciprocated in some form. Those with spiritual discernment see and enjoy the benefits.
But that doesn't answer the question I asked KiMare, amigo, which is mostly rhetorical anyway, since we know most of the answer - nothing, unless you count false hope, which has no value to me since I have accepted the fact that there is probably no afterlife, and am at peace with that.

The benefit I am discussing is eternity in heaven. Nobody this side of the grave sees and enjoys that benefit, whatever level of spiritual discernment they are claiming for themselves. There is only faith that the promise of heaven can and will be kept.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#212222
Feb 13, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"scripture" holds no authority for IANS
Bongo wrote:
It holds authority with the believer and is the basis for the action that Ians is asserting is ridiculous and futile.
I think my thesis in that subthread has been that KiMare has invested considerable resources in a promise that not only cannot be validated and need not be kept, but which comes from a source that has made other promises that haven't been kept.

You seem to be saying that faith in scripture - choosing to accept it as authoritative - is an adequate basis for trusting it. Why isn't faith in any other contradictory and mutually exclusive position just as valid?

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

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#212223
Feb 13, 2014
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe.

It's really hard to sympathize with an institutional bully, though.

Especially as how they enjoy a tax exempt free ride on the backs of taxpayers...
Not only that, they also make a profit from many of their "charities".

<quoted text>
A former pawnbroker, Booth was aware that poverty largely stemmed from the structure of society that he was in. However the social system that created conditions of poverty and inequality was not to be improved or replaced via social revolution. Instead Booth hoped to promote a “kinder, gentler” form of industrial capitalism, one with the “Christian values” of hard work, abstinence and charity. Booth characterised the revolutionary Christianity of the Diggers and Levellers as “utopian” and believed that Salvation Army members could earn a large profit from businesses and still keep a good conscience. In his view (and contrary to many others) the Bible was detached from social and economic change. For him the work of a good Christian was to piously tend to the poor rather than work with them in the hope of transforming a society based on poverty for some people and profit for others.

Regardless of their attitude towards social structures the primary aim of the Salvation Army was not to provide charity, but to win souls from the devil. Booth stated that what was important was not “whether a man died in the poorhouse but if his soul was saved”.(2) Dispensing the absolute basics of food and temporary housing to the needy was motivated by the need to recruit rather than by anything in the Bible. Any of the poor who were unfortunate enough to go against the Army’s morals were quick to discover themselves out on the street, hungry or not.(3)
<quoted text>
http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2013/03/18/the-st...

What a scam, just one of several.
Bongo

Medford, NY

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#212224
Feb 13, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I think my thesis in that subthread has been that KiMare has invested considerable resources in a promise that not only cannot be validated and need not be kept, but which comes from a source that has made other promises that haven't been kept.
You seem to be saying that faith in scripture - choosing to accept it as authoritative - is an adequate basis for trusting it. Why isn't faith in any other contradictory and mutually exclusive position just as valid?
"cold rain and snow" today. 1) Promises not fulfilled yet? 2) They are as valid, chose one. One may not be as good as another. I don't pray God will drop money in my lap. I pray for wisdom and opportunity.
Bongo

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#212225
Feb 13, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
If you believe in the ability of a god to suspend the laws of nature and make objects appear and change without a natural cause, you believe in magic. Superstition is also the belief in magic and the supernatural. Isn't that what theists believe? If you think not, how does the belief in things like miracles, answered prayer, and raising the dead differ from that description?
<quoted text>
No. Dogma in the sense I mean is that which is authoritatively proclaimed claimed to be true without support, and which is not debatable to those submitting to it. Natural law arrived at by committee or democratically and which is subject to debate and tweaking is not dogma.
1) Spiritual things , which science has limited understanding, should not be insinuated as majic. There is no abra cadabra. 2) Ok, but as the story goes, God created man and has made a prescription for his behavior. Righteousness according to him.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#212226
Feb 13, 2014
 
KiMare wrote:
Lost opportunity? You failed to answer my challenge of how atheists equate to the service and generosity of Christians.
You haven't established that Christians outperform atheists. You merely assume and assert it. If you aren't spending your charitable contributions directly on the intended beneficiaries, as in buying them groceries or paying their utility bills, you're probably accomplishing next to nothing except lining some scam artists pocket.

What fraction of the money given to churches do you suppose makes its way past the clergy and the cost of running those franchises? Money spent building new churches or paying the pastor's mortgage payment isn't what I call charity
KiMare wrote:
the most rewarding aspect of my life is my service for the sake of the Kingdom.
Really? That sounds hollow. I get my reward serving people.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

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#212227
Feb 13, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>You haven't established that Christians outperform atheists. You merely assume and assert it. If you aren't spending your charitable contributions directly on the intended beneficiaries, as in buying them groceries or paying their utility bills, you're probably accomplishing next to nothing except lining some scam artists pocket.

What fraction of the money given to churches do you suppose makes its way past the clergy and the cost of running those franchises? Money spent building new churches or paying the pastor's mortgage payment isn't what I call charity

KiMare wrote, " the most rewarding aspect of my life is my service for the sake of the Kingdom."

Really? That sounds hollow. I get my reward serving people.
Whether you still work or not, you serve/d humanity.

The church serves itself under the guise of piety and seeks to control humanity.
Bongo

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#212228
Feb 13, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm grateful for mine. Consider the alternative.
<quoted text>
So what? Do you think that is all that there is, or even the most important part? Of all the things that happened to you this week, how many involved killing or betrayal? The world has never been better. More people have good, long, safe, healthy, productive lives than ever in history.
You know how I feel about the darkness and pessimism of the Christian faith. It's terrible what it does to people - how much happiness and gratitude it strips them of. I read posts like yours from Christians every week. You almost never see that kind of nihilism from the humanists posting. I resent them doing that to you.
...1) Me too, all things in moderation. 2) Its just an observation. Btw a fiend of mine who is a professional just returned from Cabo recently. Said he felt safe but would never go to the mainland. A local traveler made that mistake recently. 3) What about this pessimism? Is it really empathy? Remember, and I surmise you should know more than most, many people seek God in severe adversity. There are a lot of hurting people out there. It can take many years to mature in the faith. I don't think nihilism is a proper description of it. A person can traverse life with the rose colored glasses, are you claiming that's better? Again, as the story goes, this is a fallen temporary state. Christians are in the world but not of the world......Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.… I know you loathe these words but how can you adequately dispute their veracity?

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