Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247479 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#212219 Feb 12, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
I see you are continuing to be congenial and making friends.
... pssst: I'm not your friend. I have no wish to become one. You are way, way to judgmental hand full of hatred.

Life is too short, to waste it on the likes of you.

Your Jesus would so *not* be proud of you about right now, I bet...

... what was that "a soft answer turneth away anger" that you didn't understand?

... hmmm?

(laughing even harder at your red-faced spluttering about right now...)

Since: Sep 10

London, UK

#212220 Feb 12, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I equated specific points of the Creation story to science.
You didn't because you can't.
Smirk.
A decent Christian dosn't smirk at others.

It's in the Bible somewhere.

And if it isn't, it should be.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212221 Feb 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I sure hope you get that heaven that they promised you, because if you don't, you gave away everything for nothing in return. Seriously - what did you get for all of that time, money and lost opportunity if you don't get heaven?
Bongo wrote:
Scripture clearly says that God is a debtor to no man. Anyone who gives in faith is reciprocated in some form. Those with spiritual discernment see and enjoy the benefits.
But that doesn't answer the question I asked KiMare, amigo, which is mostly rhetorical anyway, since we know most of the answer - nothing, unless you count false hope, which has no value to me since I have accepted the fact that there is probably no afterlife, and am at peace with that.

The benefit I am discussing is eternity in heaven. Nobody this side of the grave sees and enjoys that benefit, whatever level of spiritual discernment they are claiming for themselves. There is only faith that the promise of heaven can and will be kept.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212222 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"scripture" holds no authority for IANS
Bongo wrote:
It holds authority with the believer and is the basis for the action that Ians is asserting is ridiculous and futile.
I think my thesis in that subthread has been that KiMare has invested considerable resources in a promise that not only cannot be validated and need not be kept, but which comes from a source that has made other promises that haven't been kept.

You seem to be saying that faith in scripture - choosing to accept it as authoritative - is an adequate basis for trusting it. Why isn't faith in any other contradictory and mutually exclusive position just as valid?

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#212223 Feb 13, 2014
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe.

It's really hard to sympathize with an institutional bully, though.

Especially as how they enjoy a tax exempt free ride on the backs of taxpayers...
Not only that, they also make a profit from many of their "charities".

<quoted text>
A former pawnbroker, Booth was aware that poverty largely stemmed from the structure of society that he was in. However the social system that created conditions of poverty and inequality was not to be improved or replaced via social revolution. Instead Booth hoped to promote a “kinder, gentler” form of industrial capitalism, one with the “Christian values” of hard work, abstinence and charity. Booth characterised the revolutionary Christianity of the Diggers and Levellers as “utopian” and believed that Salvation Army members could earn a large profit from businesses and still keep a good conscience. In his view (and contrary to many others) the Bible was detached from social and economic change. For him the work of a good Christian was to piously tend to the poor rather than work with them in the hope of transforming a society based on poverty for some people and profit for others.

Regardless of their attitude towards social structures the primary aim of the Salvation Army was not to provide charity, but to win souls from the devil. Booth stated that what was important was not “whether a man died in the poorhouse but if his soul was saved”.(2) Dispensing the absolute basics of food and temporary housing to the needy was motivated by the need to recruit rather than by anything in the Bible. Any of the poor who were unfortunate enough to go against the Army’s morals were quick to discover themselves out on the street, hungry or not.(3)
<quoted text>
http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2013/03/18/the-st...

What a scam, just one of several.
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212224 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I think my thesis in that subthread has been that KiMare has invested considerable resources in a promise that not only cannot be validated and need not be kept, but which comes from a source that has made other promises that haven't been kept.
You seem to be saying that faith in scripture - choosing to accept it as authoritative - is an adequate basis for trusting it. Why isn't faith in any other contradictory and mutually exclusive position just as valid?
"cold rain and snow" today. 1) Promises not fulfilled yet? 2) They are as valid, chose one. One may not be as good as another. I don't pray God will drop money in my lap. I pray for wisdom and opportunity.
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212225 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
If you believe in the ability of a god to suspend the laws of nature and make objects appear and change without a natural cause, you believe in magic. Superstition is also the belief in magic and the supernatural. Isn't that what theists believe? If you think not, how does the belief in things like miracles, answered prayer, and raising the dead differ from that description?
<quoted text>
No. Dogma in the sense I mean is that which is authoritatively proclaimed claimed to be true without support, and which is not debatable to those submitting to it. Natural law arrived at by committee or democratically and which is subject to debate and tweaking is not dogma.
1) Spiritual things , which science has limited understanding, should not be insinuated as majic. There is no abra cadabra. 2) Ok, but as the story goes, God created man and has made a prescription for his behavior. Righteousness according to him.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212226 Feb 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Lost opportunity? You failed to answer my challenge of how atheists equate to the service and generosity of Christians.
You haven't established that Christians outperform atheists. You merely assume and assert it. If you aren't spending your charitable contributions directly on the intended beneficiaries, as in buying them groceries or paying their utility bills, you're probably accomplishing next to nothing except lining some scam artists pocket.

What fraction of the money given to churches do you suppose makes its way past the clergy and the cost of running those franchises? Money spent building new churches or paying the pastor's mortgage payment isn't what I call charity
KiMare wrote:
the most rewarding aspect of my life is my service for the sake of the Kingdom.
Really? That sounds hollow. I get my reward serving people.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#212227 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>You haven't established that Christians outperform atheists. You merely assume and assert it. If you aren't spending your charitable contributions directly on the intended beneficiaries, as in buying them groceries or paying their utility bills, you're probably accomplishing next to nothing except lining some scam artists pocket.

What fraction of the money given to churches do you suppose makes its way past the clergy and the cost of running those franchises? Money spent building new churches or paying the pastor's mortgage payment isn't what I call charity

KiMare wrote, " the most rewarding aspect of my life is my service for the sake of the Kingdom."

Really? That sounds hollow. I get my reward serving people.
Whether you still work or not, you serve/d humanity.

The church serves itself under the guise of piety and seeks to control humanity.
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212228 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm grateful for mine. Consider the alternative.
<quoted text>
So what? Do you think that is all that there is, or even the most important part? Of all the things that happened to you this week, how many involved killing or betrayal? The world has never been better. More people have good, long, safe, healthy, productive lives than ever in history.
You know how I feel about the darkness and pessimism of the Christian faith. It's terrible what it does to people - how much happiness and gratitude it strips them of. I read posts like yours from Christians every week. You almost never see that kind of nihilism from the humanists posting. I resent them doing that to you.
...1) Me too, all things in moderation. 2) Its just an observation. Btw a fiend of mine who is a professional just returned from Cabo recently. Said he felt safe but would never go to the mainland. A local traveler made that mistake recently. 3) What about this pessimism? Is it really empathy? Remember, and I surmise you should know more than most, many people seek God in severe adversity. There are a lot of hurting people out there. It can take many years to mature in the faith. I don't think nihilism is a proper description of it. A person can traverse life with the rose colored glasses, are you claiming that's better? Again, as the story goes, this is a fallen temporary state. Christians are in the world but not of the world......Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.… I know you loathe these words but how can you adequately dispute their veracity?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212229 Feb 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Did you think I did it because I'd get something back? What self-centered idiocy.
There is no reason to believe that you have any other motive than saving your soul.
KiMare wrote:
You still have no reasoned response to the prophecy of Jesus. STILL being fulfilled right in your face.
Your prophecies are unimpressive. They're mundane. like those in a daily horoscope. Your god's best prophecies pale in comparison to those of science. What else would you like said about them?
KiMare wrote:
I guess that is why you shifted from stupid scoffing to childish taunts. Smirk.
Your lack of insight is impressive. You scoff at rebuttals without addressing their specific content, and you close nearly every post with a one word taunt.

You seem to have intellectual, emotional, and character issues. Just how is faith helping you?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212230 Feb 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
I did. They didn't say what you claimed. Aside from the fact that those have been debunked. I'm just asking you to validate the first five. What's wrong? Smile.
I can't help you beside direct you to the claims. I can't read them for you, nor make you understand what the words say.

I also can't validate them. They are false claims.

And how did you or anybody else debunk any of the claims of competing mythologies. Faith?
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212231 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't established that Christians outperform atheists. You merely assume and assert it. If you aren't spending your charitable contributions directly on the intended beneficiaries, as in buying them groceries or paying their utility bills, you're probably accomplishing next to nothing except lining some scam artists pocket.
What fraction of the money given to churches do you suppose makes its way past the clergy and the cost of running those franchises? Money spent building new churches or paying the pastor's mortgage payment isn't what I call charity
<quoted text>
Really? That sounds hollow. I get my reward serving people.
.. When giving, and it should be to your local ministry not some tv evangelist its tax deductible and those clergy are fiduciaries. Whether or not they do the right thing is between them and God. You state rightly so, you got your reward. Christians store up their treasure in heaven. Its a spiritual thing, man.
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212232 Feb 13, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether you still work or not, you serve/d humanity.
The church serves itself under the guise of piety and seeks to control humanity.
Humanity does need control, isn't it obvious? There are 29 ways to skin a cat but which way is best?
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212233 Feb 13, 2014
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Could be.
On the other hand, they are consistendly azzholes, so...
... add in the fact that the principle owner of Fox Noise is also a bigot, and azzhole and truly a douchenozzle?
Well....
You sound biased and feminine, not that theres anything too wrong with that, Blob

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212234 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Do you know what an atheist is? It is a single idea: "I reject all unsubstantiated god claims," which is all of them to date. On that, yes, we all agree.
KiMare wrote:
You and I know that not all atheists agree on the basis for atheism.
What I said was that all atheists reject god claims. Read it again.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I detailed the criteria for quality prophecy and explained why your stuff and lightbeamrider's doesn't make the grade. They lack specificity, are generally mundane, in one case it was self-fulfilling, and in every case, your prophecies are drowning in a sea of failed prophecies surrounding them.
KiMare wrote:
I could care less about your criteria
Obviously. But if you are looking for others to affirm your claims for biblical prophecy, you're going to need to start.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I also compared religious prophecy with scientific prophecy. Yours didn't fare so well.
KiMare wrote:
You tried to equate scriptural prophecy and scientific theory. They don't.
Read my words again. I said that they are not equal. Biblical prophecy doesn't meet the standard for quality prophesy - you know, the ones you scoffingly dismiss without a rebuttal.
KiMare wrote:
You are still trying to pass scoffing off as a rebuttal. It isn't.
Smile.
You haven't presented a single reasoned argument, nor rebutted one, such as my argument that your prophecies are very low quality, and that scientific prophecies dwarf them.

Show me anything in any of your posts that isn't an unsubstantiated claim, scoffing, or a taunt.
Bongo

Medford, NY

#212235 Feb 13, 2014
Ians, how do you get normal type between the italics when responding?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212236 Feb 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
I equated specific points of the Creation story to science.
Your myth got almost none of the facts right. The Genesis version completely overlooked the singularity, the expansion of the universe, the inflationary epoch, symmetry breaking, particle condensation, nucleosynthsis, the decoupling of matter and radiation, etc.. All it seems to have gotten right is that the universe had a beginning - just like every other creation myth.
KiMare wrote:
You didn't because you can't. Smirk.
That is correct. There is almost zero correlation between your myth and the scientific account..

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212237 Feb 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
You implied a 'big''we' on here invalidated the prophecies I noted that are fulfilled. You implied a 'big''we' on here invalidated the prophecies I noted that are fulfilled.
My arguments stand. Your prophecies are respected by nobody except other faith based thinkers because they don't meet the minimum criteria of rational skeptics. Your claims that those prophecies are special or even interesting have been rejected by virtue of failing to meet these criteria - criteria that you have already conceded are of no interest to you. What more is there to say to somebody like you? We have no basis for discussion - no shared assumptions.

"Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says,“Well, that’s not how I choose to think about water.&#12539; All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn’t share those values, the conversation is over ." - Sam Harris

"If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" - Sam Harris
KiMare wrote:
Now you are trying to divert the exposed ploy. Caught you. Smile.
Your ideas and behavior speak to the merit of faith based thought.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#212238 Feb 13, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My ancestors left the UK, and Europe for a reason.
From this migration based on hope and faith a nation was born. Unlike any nation on the Earth. The only nation that has sent men to walk on the moon. The most powerful superpower on the face of the Earth. The United States of America.
It is my observation mans inhumanity to mankind supersedes anything that God has done. Yet you ridicule God why your fellow man waits to kill you.
Yes it is this same God that freed the slaves from the hardships in Egypt. He must not have been committed to slavery that much since he set the slaves free. It is this act that gave courage to those African Americans who were in bondage.
For they cried out to God for freedom and freedom did come. For today this great nation has a President of African ancestry. And there will be others to follow in history.
This same God never once condoned rape of any kind. It was forbidden. Although it is commonly perceived by those lacking in faith to skew the truth. The facts are and will be forever that rape is a sin and a crime against humanity.
And Hitler whom you Atheist frequently and proudly proclaim was a Christian. Has his place in the lake of fire with Satan his father. For this we know that people claim to be and what they are in reality can be completely different.
For Hitler had the demonic mind of psychopathic killer that masked himself under auspices of Christianity. Only a fool would believe him to be a genuine Christian. And not to our surprise fools believe this nonsense.
Good, so glad you ancestors had the foresight and clairvoyance to p|ss off so you could be born across the Atlantic and not here

Yes the puritans moved over the water so they could be free to impose their religion on all by force, threat and violence if required. It seems that your ancestors did a good job.

Ahh but China and India beats you on population numbers, China is catching up and due to overtake you on finance. Europe beats you on humanity and human rights. Oh yes and the African nations have been electing Black presidents for a long time so no need to get you nickers in a twist. Tell me have you had any female presidents yet? Honey you want to hype up the US with propaganda then you need to understand the state of the world before sticking your foot in your mouth.

Perhaps you are correct that in the US man in inhumane, not so much in Europe. I do not ridicule any god that’s just your own insecurity. What is the point of ridiculing a myth?

The threats to this world at the moment originate from/because of the 3 abrahamic religions, The Hebrews are determined to massacre the Palestinians and hence begin a war with Islam and Islam is determined to see their religions grow by wiping the christian aggressor off the map. So is seems that without the three abrahamic religions this world would be a safer place to live.

Ahh so you agree that while freeing his few chosen people your god carried out the first genocide, murdered tens of thousands of children and condoned rape and slavery?

He advised that the people his chosen few captured should be either murdered or kept as sex slaves and raped at will. It’s written in the babble so you can’t deny it.

Funny your wet dreams about Hitler because he has never been excommunicated and what he did he did with full knowledge and agreement of the Vatican/ As far as the head of the biggest christian church in the world was concern then he was still a good christian. It is not your decision who is or is not christian

Now you are being foolish, Hitler’s father was Jewish, the Hebrew people consider Satan to be a personal metaphor, the yetzer hara that tempts us to do wrong and metaphors do not sire children.

And still you have not seen the decency to respond to the original statement that “Not one addiction clinic in the UK is affiliated to any church”. Why is this, could it be that it shows you were wrong?

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