Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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#211747
Feb 9, 2014
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Quit whining. I made a general statement about the atheist view on here. The challenge I have always addressed is the idiotic claim that the Bible is a worthless fiction book.
In my original post I addressed the prophecies concerning Israel. Summarized succinctly by God challenging Jews to choose life. That edict has been reflected over the centuries. I used the term 'Alien' in deference to the atheist's bigoted handicap with the word 'God'. As another poster just noted, atheists deny and brush aside every point, or simply avoid facing them.
Your response is a perfect example. A nobody in a subjected country, rejected by his own people, predicted the birth of Christianity. You pretend that is of no account, DESPITE THE FACT THAT CHRISTIANS SIGNIFICANTLY OUTNUMBER ATHEISTS!
Even more interestingly, Jesus makes that claim at the literal location of the Roman/Greek 'gate of hell'. It also was the location of the Temple of Pan. In the very face of the 'wisdom of that age', he made his prophecy. In historical short order, not only were those gods dismissed, but the very power of that time, the Roman Empire was converted!
Perhaps you need to re-examine your definition of 'value'? You focus on things that cannot be, or are difficult to explain. You falsely deny that the Bible contains numerous profound things, which is one reason why it stands distinct in the world of books.
Smile.
I have posted this a number of times. Not once have I had a believer comment that they actually watched it to address what the show has to say.

NOVA'sa "The Bible's Buried Secrets"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b...

It shows what archeology has to say about the claims of the Bible. Watch and learn.

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#211748
Feb 9, 2014
 

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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...

"In short, Vollmar explains that he enrolled in seminary to obtain his masters degree in Theology. But his intense study of the Bible didn’t strengthen his faith. It led him away from it.

"Vollmar joined the Clergy Project not too long ago, giving him the opportunity to talk to other pastors like himself who were also closeted atheists."

This is but one example of something that is becoming more common...Christian preachers coming out as atheists. For more information on the Clergy Project see...

http://www.clergyproject.org/

The book which promotes atheism the most...the Bible.

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#211749
Feb 9, 2014
 

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Re: the Nye / Ham debate...

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/...

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#211750
Feb 9, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's an example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
lightbeamrider wrote:
Which is why i wrote, Even when prophecy is fulfilled critics minimize and explain away which is exactly what you will do.
Was that a rebuttal? It sounded like the words of somebody who is used to being rejected for making a particular argument but still makes it.

If people who know the prophecy have the power to make it come to pass, the prophecy is self-fulfilling when they do. That is very human and natural, not superhuman or supernatural..
lightbeamrider wrote:
I would say both Isaac Newton and Matthew Henry predicting the rebirth of Israel from the Bible is not low quality. They had no real reason to make such assumptions since there is no precedent in history of anything like that happening in human history after so long a time. Henry's prediction predates the event by 200+ years. At the same spot and undivided. Quit remarkable.
Interesting, but it doesn't sound supernatural. That's what this is about, right - prophecy as a marker of superhuman intelligence, unlike say predicting an eclipse?
lightbeamrider wrote:
Prophecy is generally vague before the event and takes on meaning after. It is assumed the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation is going to be Elijah and Enoch although the actual prophecy does not identify them.
If any of hundreds of distinct events can satisfy the same prophecy, it's not a prophecy. If the 'Lion from the East' can be anything from the Mayor of New York City to the Asian flu, it's nothing at all.

Quality prophecy needs to be specific.

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#211752
Feb 9, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
How do you define spiritually dead? Not a Christian?
lightbeamrider wrote:
It means separation from God whereas physical means separation of the soul from the body.
OK. That's pretty much what I prophesied.

That's a pretty self-flattering albeit meaningless definition even for a believer, since none of you knows which of you your god will accept ans which he will reject.

It's is an even less useful definition to an unbeliever, who sees no evidence of a god for anybody to have such a relationship with, knows spiritual experiences himself without a god belief.

Your answer makes me wonder whether you have ever had what I call a spiritual experience. If not, is it even possible to understand what authentic spirituality is? I don't see how.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What is spirituality to you?
< sound of crickets chirping >
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I find that many or most Christians spiritually wounded. Look at Clearwater, who cries about persecution, and expresses the same sense of alienation from the world, from mankind, and from his own flesh that I read in the posts of so many of the faithful. How is it spiritual to consider the world and mankind so damaged and to encourage detachment from it?
< sound of a pin dropping >
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Spirituality more than anything else entails a sense of connectivity with the world - of oneness with nature, of awe at its grandeur, and gratitude to be included in it. So many of you seem to have your imaginations redirected to the time after your deaths to a place that probably doesn't exist inhabited by spirits that probably don't exist. Is that what you mean by spiritual?
< sound of a faintly coyote baying on a distant mountaintop >

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Feb 9, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
What is spirituality to you?
lightbeamrider wrote:
Connection to God, the source of all life. To disconnect is to embrace death.
Sorry - I didn't see that you had answered one of the other three questions separately.

The problem with that definition is that it depends on the existence of "God" - Yahweh. right? If your god doesn't exist, you leave no possibility of anybody having a spiritual experience
lightbeamrider wrote:
Spiritual death means isolation from each other, nature, and God. It is disharmony.
Now you seem to be drifting back into the natural world, and contradicting your earlier definition, which never mentioned connectivity to man or nature - just your god. Those are very different things, the latter being common among people unfamiliar with your god.

This is meant to give you something to ponder, and in so doing, help you clarify your thoughts. If your definition isn't precise, you're defining nothing. Do yourself a favor and reallocate some prayer time to contemplating your thoughts to be clear about what it is you think exactly.

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I have read my Bible, for 40+ years as a practicing and committed Christian, and now as an inveterate skeptic (apostate, they say from within the sanctuary). In the last 20 years I have studied it in depth - in fact I began so in order to be a more complete Christian, and it was this very study that caused the "scales to fall from my eyes" as to the veracity of it's claims.

One of the most self-serving and fallacious "proofs" I discovered in my reading was the shameless and cavalier way that Christianity hijacked an ancient people's scripture (namely, Judaism), including their prophecies. Not content with that, they further "discovered" other "prophecies" where none was known previously to exist, even by the author. I would love to find a prophecy, Messianic or otherwise, that has unequivocally come true, but I am still looking. If anyone knows of one, I'd like to hear it.

Biblical "prophecy" tends to be hopelessly vague, and generally go something along the lines of,
"...and in that day the Rulers of the East and West shall usher in a period of tribulation, until such time as the Eagle scream at midday, whereby the Man of Sorrows shalt utter a plea to the Unnamed One to find his chariot keys, and it will be so."

These may call themselves prophecy, but these posers should be tarred and feathered and carried out on a rail. As vague as these utterances are, they can be applied to some situation in virtually every decade of history since utterance. They're no more prophetic than a fortune cookie. To make matters worse, the Christians came along and hijacked these vague utterances, and put their own wholly gratuitous spin on them, piling contumely upon obscurity.

I do hope tho' that together we can search through and find just one that deservedly carries the name of "prophecy come true," requiring no disclaimer intoning, "First comes believe, then shall truth reveal." Hmmm. That's pretty much what revived Tinkerbell too. If this is prophecy, these Biblical parlor tricks serve no purpose beyond padding the ego of an insecure deity. If this God wants to keep secrets, I say leave him be. He can't be trusted.

Remember, true prophecy is not just any old educated guess based on geopolitical realities. Divine Prophecy is like a healing miracle - it should be a manifestation of supernatural power providing unequivocal evidence to believers AND unbelievers alike, without need of indoctrination. It must be bold as the sun and clear as a bell, subject to no fallible human's interpretation.

So, if anyone can find just one true unequivocal prophecy in the NT, I pledge to hie my arse back to the altar. Here's your chance - the heart is open - God commands you to save me from Ol' Scratch. Let 'er rip.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#211756
Feb 9, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
I have posted this a number of times. Not once have I had a believer comment that they actually watched it to address what the show has to say.
NOVA'sa "The Bible's Buried Secrets"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b...
It shows what archeology has to say about the claims of the Bible. Watch and learn.
The Bible "lost in translation"
Reveals that there are so many different translations and insertions to the bible that it is not only full of errors, it is meaningless as it's true meaning because it is literally
"lost in translation" and added content. Sorta impossible to call that the word of god, unless god is a lying babbling buffoon.

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#211757
Feb 9, 2014
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
Don't know about the bad for being human part.
It's called sin nature, and is a central principle of Christianity. It has an entire field of theological study dedicated to it called hamartiology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamartiology

It teaches that man beginning with the first unit is an utterly failed creature totally dependent upon grace to avert a much deserved fate of eternal torture.
lightbeamrider wrote:
Paul did address what we call original or inherited sin in Romans 5. In that sense there is a rift between God and humans from Adam along with our ancestors. Ofter the offspring suffer the consequences for the offenses of the parents.
Yeah, that. You mention it like it's an incidental afterthought rather than perhaps the key idea of Christianity, the one about which many other central concepts of Christian doctrine such as salvation (soteriology), redemption, damnation, crucifixion, atonement, free will, death, rebellion, hell, the fall, Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the rapture, Armageddon, and more revolve.

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#211758
Feb 9, 2014
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
Talking about gardens, do you have one? Grow any tomatoes or hot peppers?
Yes, we have a beautiful garden entirely of Mrs Aint's design. Yes, we have chili peppers, but no tomatoes. Bananas and figs are our only other crops besides herbs (rosemary, basil). It's mostly grass, shrubs, vines, and trees with lots of colorful blooms. Are you into gardening? If so, here is an inventory:

Apart from the above, we grow canna lillies (not calla), geraniums, periwinkles, irises, azaleas, dahlias, a hydrangea, impatiens, an outrageous and prolific angel trumpet tree, assorted potted plants (stone and terra cotta, several onpedestals) including orchids, marigold, chenille plant, hummingbird vine, crown of thorns, lantana, clivia, Madagascar palms, areca palms, donkey tail palm, and Christmas cacti. We also have blue trumpet vine and bleeding heart vine growing on a wrought iron fence and gate, and bougainvilleas of assorted colors on the walls. Almost anything will grow in this climate.

We also have two fountains, assorted hummingbird feeders, a cage where my wife raises monarch butterflies for release, terraced steps, and assorted statuary, including tikis, a large ceramic Aztec calendar, a ceramic monkey on a trapeze, a bronze Ganesh, St. Francis with animals, and Our Lady of Guadaloupe in cantera.

We have a covered but open terrace at the top of the stairs bedecked in Mexican art and chimes with furniture for socializing, reading or napping. We also have specialty lighting that makes it especially beautiful on starry nights, with two back-lit large stained glass windows separating the terrace from the attached house.

It's a very spiritual place. One cannot help but commune with nature surrounded by so much color, light and life.

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#211759
Feb 9, 2014
 
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. we see similar things, naturalistic wonderment replaced by routine, obedience instead of compassion, values and purpose, bible lessons and dogma instead of the search .. if there's no joy, where is the Holy Spirit? Is life always 'woe is me' or 'woe is the world'??.. in the search for spirituality, imagination is more important than knowledge. In my world, I've questioned everything from a Universe Consciousness to a God, Aliens and no God. When my imagination runs wild, sometimes I have a pure insight into the meaning of life .. am I wrong? Perhaps. But, it's my journey and nobody has the right to tell me how it should be, that's the sign of someone void of spirituality ..
Well said, little sister.

And no, you are not wrong.

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#211760
Feb 9, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
I have posted this a number of times. Not once have I had a believer comment that they actually watched it to address what the show has to say. NOVA'sa "The Bible's Buried Secrets" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-b... It shows what archeology has to say about the claims of the Bible. Watch and learn.
I'll give it a look-see. It generally takes me 3-5 sittings for something that long on my laptop (just under 2 hours). Mrs Aint knows how to get it on the TV with our new HDMI sorcery I picked up for her this week (she's the tech savvy member of this family - I'm still reeling from decades of beepers and cell phones). Maybe we'll break it in on this..

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Feb 9, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It teaches that man beginning with the first unit is an utterly failed creature totally dependent upon grace to avert a much deserved fate of eternal torture.
.. if you believe you are a failed, amoral species, there can be no spirituality ..

.. the average Christian is usually raised in the religion. As an adult,(s)he reads a few books, adds a personal spin, overestimates the spiritual enlightenment, decides (s)he's found the Truth, claims knowledge of what the great 'What Is' wants and proceeds to define truth ..

.. some Christians on this thread consider their spiritual understanding advanced, an indication that the direct opposite is true, it has nothing to do with a spiritual, existential state of being ..

.. for me, spirituality is the search for the sacred within self. If a person believes in original sin, the search is over before it begins, the Divine has escaped ..

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

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#211762
Feb 9, 2014
 
HipGnosis wrote:
I have read my Bible, for 40+ years as a practicing and committed Christian, and now as an inveterate skeptic (apostate, they say from within the sanctuary). In the last 20 years I have studied it in depth - in fact I began so in order to be a more complete Christian, and it was this very study that caused the "scales to fall from my eyes" as to the veracity of it's claims.
One of the most self-serving and fallacious "proofs" I discovered in my reading was the shameless and cavalier way that Christianity hijacked an ancient people's scripture (namely, Judaism), including their prophecies. Not content with that, they further "discovered" other "prophecies" where none was known previously to exist, even by the author. I would love to find a prophecy, Messianic or otherwise, that has unequivocally come true, but I am still looking. If anyone knows of one, I'd like to hear it.
Biblical "prophecy" tends to be hopelessly vague, and generally go something along the lines of,
"...and in that day the Rulers of the East and West shall usher in a period of tribulation, until such time as the Eagle scream at midday, whereby the Man of Sorrows shalt utter a plea to the Unnamed One to find his chariot keys, and it will be so."
These may call themselves prophecy, but these posers should be tarred and feathered and carried out on a rail. As vague as these utterances are, they can be applied to some situation in virtually every decade of history since utterance. They're no more prophetic than a fortune cookie. To make matters worse, the Christians came along and hijacked these vague utterances, and put their own wholly gratuitous spin on them, piling contumely upon obscurity.
I do hope tho' that together we can search through and find just one that deservedly carries the name of "prophecy come true," requiring no disclaimer intoning, "First comes believe, then shall truth reveal." Hmmm. That's pretty much what revived Tinkerbell too. If this is prophecy, these Biblical parlor tricks serve no purpose beyond padding the ego of an insecure deity. If this God wants to keep secrets, I say leave him be. He can't be trusted.
Remember, true prophecy is not just any old educated guess based on geopolitical realities. Divine Prophecy is like a healing miracle - it should be a manifestation of supernatural power providing unequivocal evidence to believers AND unbelievers alike, without need of indoctrination. It must be bold as the sun and clear as a bell, subject to no fallible human's interpretation.
So, if anyone can find just one true unequivocal prophecy in the NT, I pledge to hie my arse back to the altar. Here's your chance - the heart is open - God commands you to save me from Ol' Scratch. Let 'er rip.
.. as you know, I'm a fan ..

.. thank you for sharing your life experience ..

.. please stay, post more. We need you ..

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#211763
Feb 9, 2014
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
I have read my Bible, for 40+ years as a practicing and committed Christian, and now as an inveterate skeptic (apostate, they say from within the sanctuary). In the last 20 years I have studied it in depth - in fact I began so in order to be a more complete Christian, and it was this very study that caused the "scales to fall from my eyes" as to the veracity of it's claims.
One of the most self-serving and fallacious "proofs" I discovered in my reading was the shameless and cavalier way that Christianity hijacked an ancient people's scripture (namely, Judaism), including their prophecies. Not content with that, they further "discovered" other "prophecies" where none was known previously to exist, even by the author. I would love to find a prophecy, Messianic or otherwise, that has unequivocally come true, but I am still looking. If anyone knows of one, I'd like to hear it.
Biblical "prophecy" tends to be hopelessly vague, and generally go something along the lines of,
"...and in that day the Rulers of the East and West shall usher in a period of tribulation, until such time as the Eagle scream at midday, whereby the Man of Sorrows shalt utter a plea to the Unnamed One to find his chariot keys, and it will be so."
These may call themselves prophecy, but these posers should be tarred and feathered and carried out on a rail. As vague as these utterances are, they can be applied to some situation in virtually every decade of history since utterance. They're no more prophetic than a fortune cookie. To make matters worse, the Christians came along and hijacked these vague utterances, and put their own wholly gratuitous spin on them, piling contumely upon obscurity.
I do hope tho' that together we can search through and find just one that deservedly carries the name of "prophecy come true," requiring no disclaimer intoning, "First comes believe, then shall truth reveal." Hmmm. That's pretty much what revived Tinkerbell too. If this is prophecy, these Biblical parlor tricks serve no purpose beyond padding the ego of an insecure deity. If this God wants to keep secrets, I say leave him be. He can't be trusted.
Remember, true prophecy is not just any old educated guess based on geopolitical realities. Divine Prophecy is like a healing miracle - it should be a manifestation of supernatural power providing unequivocal evidence to believers AND unbelievers alike, without need of indoctrination. It must be bold as the sun and clear as a bell, subject to no fallible human's interpretation.
So, if anyone can find just one true unequivocal prophecy in the NT, I pledge to hie my arse back to the altar. Here's your chance - the heart is open - God commands you to save me from Ol' Scratch. Let 'er rip.
You've been on Topix over five years as well, and might agree with me that this topic - prophecy - would not have been dealt with this quickly and authoritatively by so many different posters more or less in agreement in those days. I see this kind of response as being indicative of a maturation of the body of unbelievers connected in cyberspace. I presume that that is indicative of a similar phenomenon occurring over the culture at large.

Have you noticed that atheists are appearing as mainstream characters in TV and movies, and generally positively portrayed, whereas the religious are generally shown unfavorably? Nobody looks up to priests, TV preachers, or born-agains in the entertainment media. If they're not pedophiles, fundies, thumpers, or adulterers, they're some other kind of hypocrite or zealot.

None of this bodes well for the future of organized religion as a player in mainstream American culture for much longer.

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Feb 9, 2014
 

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I just saw this - another sign of growth:

"Is America losing faith? Atheism on the rise but still in the shadows
American Way:- Atheist activists' numbers are growing in the US as they take on Big Religion, but many keep quiet for fear of alienation in one Bible-minded Virginia town"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nor...

" At first glance, the group of scruffy-looking students could be attending a meeting of any old debating club, but as they begin to speak it soon becomes clear that they all share the same secret.

"A shy young woman is among the first. She admits she is still a long way from telling her parents the truth about herself.“My closest friends know,” she says,“but where I come from, I only know one other person like me, who was a teacher. I will tell my parents in the end, I can’t now; at least, not until I am financially independent.”

"Going around the circle, each member shares their story and says whether or not they are “out” of the closet. But while they use the lexicon of the gay and lesbian movement they are not speaking of their sexuality: they are not gay or lesbian, but atheist and agnostic.

"A decade ago, a group non-believers meeting publicly on a university campus like this one at Virgina Tech would have been rare, but over the last five years the number of student “freethinker” groups in the US, has begun to snowball: from 100 in 2007 their number has leapt to more than 350 today, according to the nationwide Secular Student Alliance."

This is a reasonable doing for those comfort so to use the word atheist to describe themselves - to de-demonize it. Where is the theist's sting if the word loses its accusatory tone?

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#211765
Feb 9, 2014
 
River Tam wrote:
This is more than a turning point in her life. This is the vanishing point.
She's been at that church since birth. She was batpised there. It's a crisis.
I have no say in it. She's going to talk to her pastor. I can't talk her out of it. We can find another church. One that accepts us as we are. She's not willing to accept that, yet.
"I don't understand, I'll never understand but I'll try to understand. There's nothing else I can do." ~ Fiona Apple
How do you think that talk will play out?

Has Mia accepted what the real problem is?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#211766
Feb 9, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I just saw this - another sign of growth:
"Is America losing faith? Atheism on the rise but still in the shadows
American Way:- Atheist activists' numbers are growing in the US as they take on Big Religion, but many keep quiet for fear of alienation in one Bible-minded Virginia town"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nor...
" At first glance, the group of scruffy-looking students could be attending a meeting of any old debating club, but as they begin to speak it soon becomes clear that they all share the same secret.
"A shy young woman is among the first. She admits she is still a long way from telling her parents the truth about herself.“My closest friends know,” she says,“but where I come from, I only know one other person like me, who was a teacher. I will tell my parents in the end, I can’t now; at least, not until I am financially independent.”
"Going around the circle, each member shares their story and says whether or not they are “out” of the closet. But while they use the lexicon of the gay and lesbian movement they are not speaking of their sexuality: they are not gay or lesbian, but atheist and agnostic.
"A decade ago, a group non-believers meeting publicly on a university campus like this one at Virgina Tech would have been rare, but over the last five years the number of student “freethinker” groups in the US, has begun to snowball: from 100 in 2007 their number has leapt to more than 350 today, according to the nationwide Secular Student Alliance."
This is a reasonable doing for those comfort so to use the word atheist to describe themselves - to de-demonize it. Where is the theist's sting if the word loses its accusatory tone?
What we are seeing is a polarization, sure the number of non-believers is increasing a little.
But the number of Evangelical Christians is also increasing. While non-believers are becoming noticed and the percentage is increasing. We are still a minute quantity and miniscule minority in America and it's doubtful that will change anytime soon.
Humans (mostly) are just wired to believe rather than use rational thinking I think.

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#211767
Feb 9, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
Was that a rebuttal? It sounded like the words of somebody who is used to being rejected for making a particular argument but still makes it.

If people who know the prophecy have the power to make it come to pass, the prophecy is self-fulfilling when they do. That is very human and natural, not superhuman or supernatural..

Interesting, but it doesn't sound supernatural. That's what this is about, right - prophecy as a marker of superhuman intelligence, unlike say predicting an eclipse?

If any of hundreds of distinct events can satisfy the same prophecy, it's not a prophecy. If the 'Lion from the East' can be anything from the Mayor of New York City to the Asian flu, it's nothing at all.
Quality prophecy needs to be specific.
Good points.

That's the thing. You pointed out that LBR appeared to have an oft used response in addressing people who mention prophecies haven't been fulfilled or IOW reject the prophecies.

That tells me LBR is aware they haven't been fulfilled - as the bible says they must be, and it's very specific concerning that detail - too.

I used to be more willing to engage theists on the biblical front, whether by pointing out the failed prophecies, absurdities and inconsistencies found in the text, omniscient deity contradictions, historical realities and origins, and many other issues.

But, when you get people pointing to a biblical verse, citing specificity, and the reasoning points rely on such claims as:
KiMare wrote:
Even more interestingly, Jesus makes that claim at the literal location of the Roman/Greek 'gate of hell'. It also was the location of the Temple of Pan. In the very face of the 'wisdom of that age', he made his prophecy. In historical short order, not only were those gods dismissed, but the very power of that time, the Roman Empire was converted!
I'm reminded that the majority of theists are quite similar to a volcano worshiper with a bone in the nose, a grass skirt and shrunken skulls decorating his grass hut.

Insisting that the smoke and impending eruption is the anger of the god, and it is "happening as foretold".

But then again, volcanoes aRe certainly real.\~How dare Krakatoa usurp the status of Vesuvius~/. Eh?

Then, there is fallacious reasoning such as the below statement used...
KiMare wrote:
You pretend that is of no account, DESPITE THE FACT THAT CHRISTIANS SIGNIFICANTLY OUTNUMBER ATHEISTS!
It isn't just KiMare that will use those types of arguments, LBR, Eagle, mtimber, RR and numerous others do as well.

Just look at what LBR says here:
lightbeamrider wrote:
Prophecy is generally vague before the event and takes on meaning after.
He actually says what he denies(self fulfilling prophecy), while pointing to a vague "prophecy" as specific.

I really can't think of - any theist - that doesn't use these faulty arguments at some point, and invariably so. Not one. You can't convince a believer of anything, because their belief is not based on evidence, logic or reason, it's based on a desperate need to believe.

So, I come back to this thought, repeatedly; I don't take people too seriously, who, had they been taught differently from birth would be thanking The Cat In The Hat for the food they are about to eat.

Sometimes, you just gotta laugh.

That's been my endeavor of late.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#211769
Feb 9, 2014
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
It’s possible, I guess that Mia was passed up because of her sexual orientation. But like I said everywhere I’ve been it’s always been “Mom’s,” working in the nursery.
Church members don’t go around asking if people are gay in their congregations. That’s a good way to hurt people’s feelings and run folks off which is not what Christians want to do. It would be rude and repulsive.
Seeing two people sitting together in church doesn’t say they’re homosexual and nor does it elude to it. They could be family, good friends, co-workers, neighbors, college roommates. It’s wrong to make assumptions.
If you want to know for yourself, try attending a few church services.
Where I went to church, teenagers worked the nursery during Sunday service.

Body language reveals the nature of relationships.

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