Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258482 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#211843 Feb 10, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
We all have disabilities. Some just think they can hide them. Others turn them into assets.
Yeah, I think I've said that before.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#211845 Feb 10, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I'm already a member.
You're welcome. Parkingout behind the nightclub.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#211846 Feb 10, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You offered an explanation and I asked for proof. Seems you want to make claims without having to provide evidence for them. I wrote both Matthew Henry and Isaac Newton made their assumptions about the return of Israel from the Bible at a time when Israel did not exist. You are great at sleazing your way out of things and you can get away with that con job on Topix. Well time for another work week.
True, few nations had to wait such a long time, but there's nothing at all unusual historically about a nation being subsumed by conquering nations, and then subsequently being "reborn". It's not entirely clear why you think this constitutes proof of prophecy, but you seem to want to make a big deal out of Newton reciting the Bible, and pointing to that as proof? Newton was a believer, and thus it's no surprise he would be fascinated with the Bible. He approaches it as a mathematician, AND as one who felt that applying his special gift to the Bible was providing a service for the vast ignoratii (which includes you and me). In addition to his citations for the rebirth of Israel. Newton also believed there was a "Bible Code" long before the NYT bestseller list. That doesn't say much for a Clarity of Scripture doctrine, does it? In addition, Newton also calculated an earliest date for the end-times, which,typically, depends entirely on Eurocentric assumptions about historical chronology.

In short, Newton was a genius who applied his gift to his beliefs. One wonders what else he could have discovered had he not been obsessively side-tracked by a delusion?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#211847 Feb 10, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm still looking for that utilitarian value of faith.
I understand, however, the value of leaving people who believe and worship in private alone. My interest at this time is in the church, which has no intention of confining its influence to the religious, not the individual believer who prays around his dinner table and says his prayers at night.
But I do believe that faith based thought damages the thinker, and that we owe it to others to prevent them from falling victim to this scourge, and rescuing those that can be salvaged. In this sense, liken it to smoking. I don't want to torment smokers, but I consider it an undesirable thing for the smoker and everybody else as well, and I would do what is in my power to prevent new smokers from starting, to protect children from exposure to it with education and laws protecting children from exposure, and to help rescue existing smokers.
But for now, yes - the emphasis should be on removing the tentacles of the church from the government and from the lives of the uninterested. We can turn our attention to the faithful later.
Here's a quick quote from Franklin's autobiography, "Though I seldom attended any public worship, I had still an opinion of it's propriety, and it's utility when rightly conducted...". He elaborates but that's enough for the point. I agree with it's utility on a personal level, for certain personality types.

For instance, faith provides refuge and strength to those in dire emotional straits. You and I might say that they should recognize their own inner strength that "saved" them, and that faith just provided an Uber-Daddy to kick them in the ass, but it would be highly arrogant for us to scoff at the result. When it comes to lifting people from despair and degradation, "It's all good."

Beyond that, there is another value to society which I had never realized before topix. When I first heard someone argue, "What's to keep us from stealing, raping, and killing, if there's no God?" I was really taken aback when I heard that. I thought they were being facetious. But they aren't. Long story short, I concluded that, if this punishing God concept was the only thing restraining some people's animal impulses, then by all means, print more Bibles.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211848 Feb 10, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is so cool. Thank you for sharing that with us. I bet it’s a beautiful place. It sounds like you have a paradise. I love the natural wildlife that’s attracted to such places.
When I was a growing up my Dad and Grandparents did some gardening but more to put fresh produce on the table. We spent a many hours over the years shelling peas and beans on the front porch.
I tried growing some tomatoes one year in my sun room but that didn’t turn out so well. Tomatoes need a lot of sun light. So I replanted them outside and they started producing.
I enjoyed your response Doctor.
Thanks, my pleasure.

[tipping hat]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211849 Feb 10, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
All you have to do is lure nano to the church entrance. Pastor Catcher, HL and our Jagermeister doubles will do the rest.
Ew.[Dives into a tub of bleach]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211850 Feb 10, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
An interesting documentary...
Atheist in the Bible Belt
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Yikes! You're keeping me busy - thanks. I've seen part of the The Bible's Buried Secrets, but less that 20% at this point.

I lived that life (Atheist in the Bible Belt) from 1998-2009 as I suspect you are now (you've told me the state you presently live in, but I'll let you tell others what that is if you choose to), especially if you are not in a large city. I was in a county of 40,000 with one town of about 15,000 - very much the Lord's country. It was an eye opener for this liberal, atheist, pot friendly Deadhead, although not as much as Topix.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211851 Feb 10, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
Nice. So full of life. I really liked the dancing kids.

I'm guessing that some of the faithful don't approve. Any Christians here find that life affirming, or was it too close to sin?

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#211852 Feb 10, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Ew.[Dives into a tub of bleach]
Redemption is available to all at the Holy Church of Catcher.

Speaking of which, where's Dave Nelson?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211853 Feb 10, 2014
River Tam wrote:
. They were fascinated by my leg. I was never accepted and never will be. That's fine with me but to shun one of their own because of me? Because we love each other? That's an illness that needs to be cured.
Sorry.

I hope you don't mind if I take the opportunity to point out once again that all of this talk about God being love, loving one another, and the Golden Rule, is just so many words from a church giving itself credit for qualities and values that it simply doesn't embody or promote.

The fact is, as you note, that this ideology is a pox on the culture that divides and hurts people based on bad, ancient, and irrational ideas. We all have a duty to denounce it.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#211854 Feb 10, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Here's a quick quote from Franklin's autobiography, "Though I seldom attended any public worship, I had still an opinion of it's propriety, and it's utility when rightly conducted...". He elaborates but that's enough for the point. I agree with it's utility on a personal level, for certain personality types.
For instance, faith provides refuge and strength to those in dire emotional straits. You and I might say that they should recognize their own inner strength that "saved" them, and that faith just provided an Uber-Daddy to kick them in the ass, but it would be highly arrogant for us to scoff at the result. When it comes to lifting people from despair and degradation, "It's all good."
Beyond that, there is another value to society which I had never realized before topix. When I first heard someone argue, "What's to keep us from stealing, raping, and killing, if there's no God?" I was really taken aback when I heard that. I thought they were being facetious. But they aren't. Long story short, I concluded that, if this punishing God concept was the only thing restraining some people's animal impulses, then by all means, print more Bibles.
.. recently, I read an article in THE SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE on the muriquis monkeys of Brazil which challenges the theory that all primates, including humans, are essentially aggressive ..

.. female muriquis select their mates and the males are peace-loving primates. This behavior shatters the idea that stealing, raping and killing is the default position of all apes ..

.. the muriquis do not own bibles nor can they read ..

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211855 Feb 10, 2014
The Gallop Poll recently did a survey of religiosity in the US and ranked the states. Just the other day, the Washington Post did some further analysis of the data, comparing it to the 2012 Presidential election results.

What they found was that all of the 19 most religious states voted for Romney and the 14 least religious states voted for Obama.

Because of this strong correlation between religious-Republican and non-religious-Democrat, the Friendly Atheist concludes...

"We know that the United States is growing less religious year by year. It seems to me that politically, one of two things will happen: The GOP tames or ousts its most obstreperous God botherers, or the party will continue to lose elections like it’s going out of style."

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211856 Feb 10, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. recently, I read an article in THE SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE on the muriquis monkeys of Brazil which challenges the theory that all primates, including humans, are essentially aggressive ..
.. female muriquis select their mates and the males are peace-loving primates. This behavior shatters the idea that stealing, raping and killing is the default position of all apes ..
.. the muriquis do not own bibles nor can they read ..
Well, bonobos have long given us an example that even our closest relatives are not necessarily aggressive species.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211857 Feb 10, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry.
I hope you don't mind if I take the opportunity to point out once again that all of this talk about God being love, loving one another, and the Golden Rule, is just so many words from a church giving itself credit for qualities and values that it simply doesn't embody or promote.
The fact is, as you note, that this ideology is a pox on the culture that divides and hurts people based on bad, ancient, and irrational ideas. We all have a duty to denounce it.
Religion (for the most part - even some Buddhists) has a large component of triabalism...US versus THEM. It is not surprising that Christians, for the most part, merely pay lip service to "Love thy neighbor". Tribalism dictates "Do not love thy neighbor...unless they are part of your in-group".

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211858 Feb 10, 2014
Todd Starnes of Fox News has had all the fun of watching football ruined because a Missouri football player came out of the closet.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211861 Feb 10, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
I understand proof is not a problem for you when it comes to your default position. Yet require proof,(so you say) from Theists. Which is really excuse making. Playing a stacked deck.
It doesn't sound like you understand.
lightbeamrider wrote:
You offered an explanation and I asked for proof. Seems you want to make claims without having to provide evidence for them. I wrote both Matthew Henry and Isaac Newton made their assumptions about the return of Israel from the Bible at a time when Israel did not exist. You are great at sleazing your way out of things and you can get away with that con job on Topix.
If you want to convince a skeptic that the fulfillment of a prophecy means more than that people who were aware of the prophecy wanted it fulfilled and made it happen, you'll need to supply one where that was not possible. You are making an extraordinary claim about something that can be explained in a mundane way. Occam's razor requires that we provisionally accept the most parsimonious explanation that accounts for all of the observations.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211862 Feb 10, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
there is another value to society which I had never realized before topix. When I first heard someone argue, "What's to keep us from stealing, raping, and killing, if there's no God?" I was really taken aback when I heard that. I thought they were being facetious. But they aren't. Long story short, I concluded that, if this punishing God concept was the only thing restraining some people's animal impulses, then by all means, print more Bibles.
I believe that it is their religion that makes them that way. They fail to develop the normal safeguards growing up and living under the impression that they are being watched and judged 24/7. What would you expect from a person that literally was watched and judged continually? A mature sense of right and wrong under the direction of an autonomous conscience? What do kids that are not given enough latitude - enough trust and freedom - invariably do when they get a chance?

If religion is protecting us from a problem, it is from a problem of its own making.
HipGnosis wrote:
Here's a quick quote from Franklin's autobiography, "Though I seldom attended any public worship, I had still an opinion of it's propriety, and it's utility when rightly conducted...". He elaborates but that's enough for the point. I agree with it's utility on a personal level, for certain personality types. For instance, faith provides refuge and strength to those in dire emotional straits. You and I might say that they should recognize their own inner strength that "saved" them, and that faith just provided an Uber-Daddy to kick them in the ass, but it would be highly arrogant for us to scoff at the result. When it comes to lifting people from despair and degradation, "It's all good."
As for religion comforting them, it's the same thing. Give a child a security blanket, take it away when he is 35, and watch him scream and fail to cope. Would you conclude that security blankets are providing a useful service?

My life is better and I am a better person for every area in which I developed independent of religious thought. If I had let it determine my morals, I would be less. If I let it teach me love, I would be less. If I learned spirituality there, it would be inauthentic. If I learned my worth, meaning and purpose in religious terms, I would be worth nothing except what I am worth to the god. If I had learned to understand the way the world works from the church, I would have a deformed map of it. If I had learned to think there, I would consider faith a virtue and the demand for evidence a sin. I would be meek and passive rather than confident and assertive. I would have childlike magical thinking. I would distrust science. I would be sexually constipated and consider many harmless pleasure sinful.

Where's the benefit to society there?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211863 Feb 10, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If religion is protecting us from a problem, it is from a problem of its own making.
“Religion. It’s given hope in a world torn apart by religion.”– Jon Stewart
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#211864 Feb 10, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>And there we have the classic theist non-response - a lengthy post devoid of a single rebuttal on point. When faced with a challenge requiring some knowledge of the subject, they feel impotent to respond, instead resorting to ad personum marginalization tactics. Why does he feel so threatened, one wonders?
Soooo, you don't know of any prophecies come true either, huh? I'll tell ya what, Skippy - if your faith is so weak as to feel threatened in an anonymous discussion board, it might be best for ya not to trot it out in public. I'm just sayin'.......
Your words are folly and meaningless as is your belief in nothingness.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211865 Feb 10, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
Speaking of which, where's Dave Nelson?
Dave's not here, man. He's probably with Majors Nelson, Healey and Tom

(Clown control to Mao Zedong. Clown control to Mao Zedong.)

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