Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Jul 18, 2009 Read more: Webbunny tumblelog 237,697
Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210370 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
They are clear and simple.
I find it odd that a smart fella like you is having such a hard time with it.
I agree that the words are clear and simple. They refer to a day with a morning and evening, which specifies which of several possible meanings of "yom" (day in Hebrew) was intended.

I find it odd that you would interpret them to mean an inexact but protracted period of time,then go ahead and call the words clear and simple.

It's apparent to others what you are doing even if it is not to you. It's done millions of times a day every day, and has resulted in tens of thousands of Christian divisions, each with thousands of individual that can't agree among themselves what their bible says, but each claiming that it his version is clearly and simply correct. The Christian bible says nothing if it can be used to say whatever you prefer.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210371 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
It's translated as either 24 hour periods of time or not 24
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What could be more clear and simple?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
That's not what I wrote. You're intellectual dishonesty is on high alert today, man. I wrote: "It's translated as either 24 hour periods of time or not 24 hour periods of time." Meaning, you can translate it only one of two ways, not many ways as you implied.
I don't see the basis of your objection. You are saying that the clear and simple words are ambiguous. that is, can be interpreted in two mutually exclusive ways.

I also don't see the basis of your calling me dishonest. I have a word for you as well, but I won't share it at this time.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210372 Feb 2, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
True story. I was in a pizza carry-out place and was fixing to pay for my order. The teenager behind the counter added up the check...and came out with the wrong answer...almost a dollar over what I owed. I said he should add it up again. He did, and came up with the same wrong answer. I then said, no, the sum was... He then pulled out a calculator, got the number I had said, glared at me, and said "What are you? A math professor?" Well...
Funny, although a little depressing to equate adding properly with professional mathematicians. Your story reminds me of a line from Seinfeld. Somebody asks him if he's some kind of a comedian or something, and he answers, "Yeah, I'm one kind."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210373 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What's your point? That some people were already beginning to reject the creation myth as early as the first century?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Reject?!? Who said anything about reject? I accept the creation account. Philo did too. What are you talking about rejection for?
Never mind

[Ain't sits to rest, letting boulder roll all the way back downhill]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210374 Feb 2, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
However, there are those that reject your magic mud theory right?
You have me confused with a Christain.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210375 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Back in the dinosaur's day, I bet the sky was a beautiful blue. Oops. Now you're gonna think that I mean the dinosaurs existed for 24 hours...
Did it occur between a sunrise and a sunset?.

Aren't you the one who criticizes others for Googling and reproducing what he finds there?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210376 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Christians are humans too, IANS. We also serve humanity.
The church serves itself first and better.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210377 Feb 2, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
One line I really liked from Ivanhoe, when Rebecca is being tried by the Inquisition...
"Reason is the tool of the Devil so that will with doubt our faith."
Have you read Luther on the subject?

[1]“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but—more frequently than not—struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”- Martin Luther

[2]”Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther

[3] "Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." - Martin Luther

[4] "Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason." - Martin Luther

Here he is on science:

[5] "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth." - Martin Luther

Here he is on the fairer sex:

[6] "Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child-bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children till they die, that is what they are there for." - Martin Luther

[7] "The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes." — Martin Luther

Here he is on Jews (truncated):

[8]“What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them."

And here he is on honesty:

[9] "What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them." - Martin Luther

This guy was the father of a huge branch of Christianity, Protestantism, and had a denomination named after him. One wonders why a religion that calls itself based on love would honor such a man.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210378 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"The bible teaches [insert any ending you like]"
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Oh so true. If the Bible were the product of a perfect God, there would be no disagreement in what it said. Instead we have 40,000 sects of Christianity, all arguing that it says this or that.
"Then can you explain why there are several hundred thousand gods accepted by different religious people, but only one periodic table accepted by different scientists?" - anonymous Internet poster

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210379 Feb 2, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Through the Wormhole - Did God Create Evolution?
http://youtu.be/GMYr-H70VYo
Like scaritual said, "Religions and the adherents will come around, slowly, surely, and eventually, like they always do."

This is further evidence of how the fruits of rational skepticism are eroding away at religious teaching. The fruits of reason, evidence and compassion are appearing in many Christian's worldviews, and that is terrific, until they try to steal these things for their faith between taking pot shots at science.

Incidentally, that clip was indistinguishable from schlock like Nimoy's "In Search Of" and ninety percent of the pro-religious shows on the History Channel, which are full of suggestive "questions" like "Did God Create Evolution?" They never conclude "No," meaning that they are actually statements disguised as questions to preserve plausible deniability.

It's innuendo without substance in the service of faith, which has never contributed anything to such understanding, and in fact has stood in its way. How does that kind of thinking help?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210380 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, although a little depressing to equate adding properly with professional mathematicians. Your story reminds me of a line from Seinfeld. Somebody asks him if he's some kind of a comedian or something, and he answers, "Yeah, I'm one kind."
True about the mathematician part, but I have met quite a few people that think all a mathematician does is add up long columns of numbers really fast.

“Electronic graffiti”

Since: Jun 13

Camp Cove

#210381 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you read Luther on the subject?
[1]“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but—more frequently than not—struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”- Martin Luther
[2]”Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther
[3] "Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." - Martin Luther
[4] "Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason." - Martin Luther
Here he is on science:
[5] "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth." - Martin Luther
Here he is on the fairer sex:
[6] "Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child-bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children till they die, that is what they are there for." - Martin Luther
[7] "The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes." — Martin Luther
Here he is on Jews (truncated):
[8]“What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them."
And here he is on honesty:
[9] "What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them." - Martin Luther
This guy was the father of a huge branch of Christianity, Protestantism, and had a denomination named after him. One wonders why a religion that calls itself based on love would honor such a man.
What a nice guy!!!
-/

And to think that in the church I was brought up in, we were taught to regard Luther as an absolute hero. After reading that, I think he was as sick as Hitler was.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#210382 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you read Luther on the subject?
[1]“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but—more frequently than not—struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”- Martin Luther
[2]”Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther
[3] "Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." - Martin Luther
[4] "Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason." - Martin Luther
Here he is on science:
[5] "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth." - Martin Luther
Here he is on the fairer sex:
[6] "Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child-bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children till they die, that is what they are there for." - Martin Luther
[7] "The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes." — Martin Luther
Here he is on Jews (truncated):
[8]“What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them."
And here he is on honesty:
[9] "What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them." - Martin Luther
This guy was the father of a huge branch of Christianity, Protestantism, and had a denomination named after him. One wonders why a religion that calls itself based on love would honor such a man.
To put the Ivanhoe quote in context, Rebecca is being tried by the Inquisition (she is a Jew). The inquisitor make an argument that is extremely unsound logically. Rebecca responds, "This is beyond all reason!", to which the inquisitor replies, "Reason is the tool of the Devil to make us doubt our faith."

As you have pointed out with Martin Luther, this was not just a position held by Catholics. We have seen this in all branches of Christianity, and in other religions as well.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#210383 Feb 2, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
What a nice guy!!!
-/
And to think that in the church I was brought up in, we were taught to regard Luther as an absolute hero. After reading that, I think he was as sick as Hitler was.

He is just a reminder that the three religions never ever practiced love thy neighbor, and why they have nearly always been at each others throats.
Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam in a free for all.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#210384 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
The church serves itself first and better.
And then they go to Shoney's and forget to tip the waitress.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#210385 Feb 2, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Like scaritual said, "Religions and the adherents will come around, slowly, surely, and eventually, like they always do."
This is further evidence of how the fruits of rational skepticism are eroding away at religious teaching. The fruits of reason, evidence and compassion are appearing in many Christian's worldviews, and that is terrific, until they try to steal these things for their faith between taking pot shots at science.
Incidentally, that clip was indistinguishable from schlock like Nimoy's "In Search Of" and ninety percent of the pro-religious shows on the History Channel, which are full of suggestive "questions" like "Did God Create Evolution?" They never conclude "No," meaning that they are actually statements disguised as questions to preserve plausible deniability.
It's innuendo without substance in the service of faith, which has never contributed anything to such understanding, and in fact has stood in its way. How does that kind of thinking help?
Through the wormhole isn't pro religious, it just explores a lot of strange concepts.
But you can't expect a prime-time show to be anti-religious catering to a 80% religious society. America is dangerously religitarded and evangelical christard crazy.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#210386 Feb 2, 2014
Some otherwise good people will get hell bent to strangle you over their belief in jebus, which is crazy because he taught to love thy neighbor and enemy's and to exorcize temperance, something sorely lacking in most Christian people.

“Electronic graffiti”

Since: Jun 13

Camp Cove

#210387 Feb 2, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
He is just a reminder that the three religions never ever practiced love thy neighbor, and why they have nearly always been at each others throats.
Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam in a free for all.
That's for sure! And I only wish it could have ended after the Crusades, but it goes on and on and on...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210388 Feb 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Being obedient to God would mean not hurting people.
Nonsense. Your religion hurts people every day. You hurt gays and atheists, for example.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
IE; Jesus' Golden Rule.
For starter's it's not Jesus' rule.

Secondly, the words on paper are irrelevant. What you do is. You would not like to be treated the way you treat others. Here's a 4:23 animated video I just watched parodying how Christians behave, but showing atheists doing it instead.


You would not like to be treated like that.

It would help you a lot to get a glimmer of how your church is seen through others' eyes. You would be embarrassed to post that Christianity has anything at all to do with the Golden Rule or love.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Those that do harm are selfish pricks.
Agreed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#210389 Feb 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I see the merit of Humanism as exactly that - compassion. But when and how does that compassion manifest for you?
The Golden Rule, for starters. Love one another. Your church should consider actually trying it rather than just saying it and claiming it for itself. None of us is fooled by that.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I see the merits of Christianity, knowing sin in particular, as having a clear knowledge of right and wrong. I don't see that coming from Humanism, do you?
We have a clear knowledge of right and wrong. Your church does not.

Homophobia is wrong. Atheophobia is wrong. Slavery is wrong. Rape is wrong. Terrorizing children with stories of hellfire is wrong. Premarital sex is not wrong. Birth control and condoms are not wrong.

And the concept of sin is at the root of it. Sin is the word for your god not liking it. And as soon as you label something sin, the idea of retribution is there. Calling something sin allows you to feel good about persecuting it and indifferent to the sinner.

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