What do you mean if?<quoted text>If there's a law of non-contradiction, the authors of the bible are repeat felons.
#43 Jul 13, 2012
#44 Jul 13, 2012
OK, I want to invite you to comment please on another thread, that I jsut started, called how to save god from being evil. It discusses how there could not possibly be an allgood god that is allpowerful, allknowing, the creator of everything, and capable of intervening in events on this planet, and has intentionality. I essentially argue that without the attribute of allgood, it would be possible (though I fortunately do not think it exists). I understand your point very well. pain and suffering are in ourselves, and we know it differently than how we know things we think we see, smell, hear, taste, or feel with our external senses. it is our body's knowledge - and we add to it what we think we see, when we think we see others (including animals) in pain, or when we read accounts of pain, written by other persons, or hear them discussed. our empathy and our lack of belief that we are the only being in the universe, leads us to believe that there are other living beings that suffer, much as we do, and to have a bit of anger against any even fictional being that made us that way - the curse god and die attitude, even among atheists like me! I am an agnostic atheist, and do not rule out the possibility of a partly bad god - only the possibility of a Good and Powerful one.
have you read the play jb, by Archibalc Macleish?
"If God is God, He is not good;
if god is good, he is not God;
take the even, take the odd,
I would not sleep here if I could,
except for the wind in the grass and the
little green leaves in the wood." (from memory, not exact, probably)
It is a fine play. based on book of job, but with a different message. much like the feeling I think you were expressing. You come across with very strong feelings at times, and other times you are well modulated and cooly rational. since I vary in mood also, I feel a connection.
#45 Jul 13, 2012
No, I think he was partly referring to the more obvious stylistic defects in the book - I assume you both refer to the Bible - as well as to the substantive objectionable content. I went through the Bible with a red ink pen once, intending to mark out the bad parts. I saved lots of time and motion and ink just by putting a star once in a while by one short pasage, and then putting a slash where the good thing ended and the bad resumed.
#46 Jul 13, 2012
helpful, but opens up lots of small points to quibble abotu, as many metaphors do. there is a major element of don't know in both processes as well, in many cases. I udnerstand that in some countries, not proven is an alternative to either guilty or not guilty. should have been for OJ., for example. the prosecution did a lousy job, and the evidence was mishandled is one of the sources of not proven - and not enough evidence is another - and nothing conclusive can be determined yet because we are waiting for more facts to come in, is another. it is an interesting metaphor in which to discuss specifics, however, and I am not objecting to it in general.
I like scientific attitudes and method - more than I like the temporary conclusions of a majority of scientists or experts in any scientific field. I am highly agnostic and skeptical and do not swallow scientific consensus any more than I do religious consensus. I do not buy the big bang theory, for example. I do not need it, so why buy it?
I will provisionally rent the manmade global warming theory, not because it is something to believe in, but because my view of risk assessment is that not taking it seriously could lead to worse consequences than taking it seriously would, as more info comes in over time. I do not want to be any hotter than last week in Iowa. we finally got a bit of rain today. I notice the mass media gives very little coverage to the science about global warming, and is all hot about the god particle socalled. they are so dumb they do not even know where the name came from, but think believers will act like salivating pavlov's dogs - apologies to dogs - and read whatever is printed about it.
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