Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3146 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1333 Dec 7, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Hadith scientists cannot guess, yes there is a room for fraud and errors and we do have thousands of weak and false Hadiths, thats why Hadiths were classified into many categories, we only take the good and authentic Hadiths, if you want to know more about al Hadith science check this website http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/
But their sources were still old and from a chain of narrators which means they can never be truly trusted.
hazem selawi wrote:
it seems like you and the Quran finally agree on something
18:51 "I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants. "
Allah says that he didnt make us witness the creation of the universe or the creation of ourselves, so now its up to the mankind and scientists to look for clues and evidences, the Quran in numerous verses encourage us to seek for knowledge.
The Quran is basically telling people to look at the wonders of the world and saying this is proof of God. Today science and philosophy disagree.

Religions are all for science up to the point when it starts questioning their beliefs, then they turn against it.
hazem selawi wrote:
Allah doesnt have an ego problem, he is perfect, he is beyond time and place, he created the rules that guarantee our life on this planet .
17:70 "And We have certainly honored the children of Adam and carried them on the land and sea and provided for them of the good things and preferred them over much of what We have created, with [definite] preference."
Allah doesn't literally carry us on the land and the sea, he created all the physical rules, so when a scientist invent something he actually discovers what goes along with the rules Allah created.
Or the laws of physics are purely natural. Inserting a God just creates another unsolved problem.
hazem selawi wrote:
Abbas Ibn Firna was the first man who ever thought of flying, he succeeded way before wright brothers, he always thought of a verse in Quran which is 67:19 "Do they not see the birds above them with wings outspread and [sometimes] folded in? None holds them [aloft] except the Most Merciful. Indeed He is, of all things, Seeing. "
he attached a couple of wings to his body and covered himself with feathers and jumped , he flew a considerable distance but after that fell down and hurt his back because he forgot to put a tale for landing, so no matter how much we improve our lives; we as humans by a way or another use the rules he created within our world, our cars, our planes, our homes and everything, we wouldnt be able to live unless we had those rules and laws created by god to give us the ability to invent and improve our lives.
The Chinese were the first into the air on man sized kites.

If Abbas Ibn Firna had succeeded others would have copied him which rather suggests he only succeeded in surviving a long fall.
hazem selawi wrote:
there is a story about a man at the day of judgment who made a lot of good deeds within his life, Allah asks him if he is going to heaven ?! will he enter the heaven because of his good deeds or because of Allah's mercy, the man said I will go to heaven because of my good deeds, Allah said I will only withdraw one of my blessings to you which is the bless of seeing...!! most of his good deeds vanished because without this bless he would never be able to do most of those good deeds, he again said Allah you are merciful and i will only enter heaven because of your mercy.
thus thats not ego , thats god the creator who is above everything the one we need and could never live without his mercy, he also gave humans the privilege to choose over all other creatures.
How do you know that isn't a made up story?

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1334 Dec 7, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
you never responded to the inner waves in the seas and oceans subject.
Sorry I missed that one. Do you mean this verse?

24:40 Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it....

This is just a poetic description of a storm. If you have ever been out in a boat during a storm you would know about waves above waves.
Also the oceans internal waves are transparent and so can't be called a darkness.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1335 Dec 7, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
some parts of Surat al Kahf were revealed to answer Rabbis questions but not all of it, surat al Kahf contains 110 verses and covers so many aspects and subjects beside the answers of these 3 questions.
The story of Thul Qarnayn was one of those questions so rabbis should know who he is.

“Quite Contrary”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1336 Dec 7, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Straw man BS.
Remember the paedophilia in question in this thread was that of a priest.
<quoted text>
If you actually read the article you would know that it was a school teacher, but that is also beside the point. The point was Dawkins belief that pedophiles are harmless and we make to much of a fuss over them. He called the modern 'hysteria' over them a 'modern witchhunt'.

“we live in a time of hysteria about paedophilia, a mob psychology that calls to mind the Salem witch-hunts of 1692…the boarding schools I attended employed teachers whose affections for small boys overstepped the bounds of propriety. That was indeed reprehensible. Nevertheless, if, fifty years on, they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers, I should have felt obliged to come to their defence, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience).”

Explain how this is right.

“Quite Contrary”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1337 Dec 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you sick in the head or what? Are you really that unfeeling for the loss of a new-born child? I have friends who have lost a child in childbirth and I can assure you that they matter JUST AS FOOKING MUCH to an atheist mother as they do to ignorant christians who cannot understand that atheists are HUMAN BEINGS.
That my dear little moronic godbot is as far as this argument is going with in ignorant and unfeeling sh|t head christard of the lowest order who thinks “saying oh great I am saved by god” is in anyway equal to the death of a child.
I am struck by your persistant need to read things into what is said so as to justify an emotional response. Is it that you are incapable of logic?
You are not the only one touched by tragedy. My own sister in law had multiple miscarrages and when they finally had a son, he died at four months. This is tragic, but it is also life. We all lose. I did not say anything about equating rebirth with the death of a child. When was anything said about athiests being unfeeling nonhumans? I also don't allow myself to become angry enough over a meer discussion to reduce myself to name-calling and ridiculous euphemisms. You can't even say the word Christian(which is telling in itself, and speaks to your own fear, evasion and prudery), but must call them godbots or christards. How grown up you are.
Since you are incapable of the logic necessary to answer my earlier post, I will spell it out for you:

If there is no god, no power higher than you to hold you to account, why could you not, then, murder your neighbor? Why should pedophilia be wrong? There is no right but what you decide it is, is there?
This is a serious question, to which I would appreciate an unemotional, logical response.

“Quite Contrary”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1338 Dec 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_...
Luckily no one was killed unlike the christian bombing of Warrington that killed 2 children age 3 and 12
That's christianity for you
Why would you not take the British to task for that then? They are a Christian nation. How many have died in Northern Ireland? or is death by soldier more legitimate? It's no where near you, so it's not a problem, right?
How many men, women and children have died in the middle east by foriegn soldiers just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Any country or group can call themselves Christian and attempt to hide their actions behind the Bible, but that makes it no more true, and makes them no more Christian. Any group can hide behind the Koran too. It is not a black and white world. Deceit is everywhere.

“Quite Contrary”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1339 Dec 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually no, non belief is the default position, belief in god(s) is taught. I realise that as a religious person you will find this terribly hard to understand but the subject of god or religion rarely comes up and anyway it seems you did not read my post, I said I spent several days on the subject. Tell me how long have you spent talking about god to your children? Oh hang on, you are little more than a child yourself and don’t have any so you must know it all… Anyway, it seems that good, well meaning christians have taught him the benefits of atheism includes not having to mingle too closely with bigoted christian child abusers.
As a parent I can assure you that kids of that age only believe in god if they are indoctrinated to believe such BS. Or perhaps you could show me a child born believing in god, or a child who has not been taught about gods who believes in gods? The only reason my son considered religion was peer pressure, nothing more, no innate belief was involved. Without the evangelicalism forced on children from the day they first begin to string thought together into coherent ideas religion is a non starter.
Honey, what have I told you before about trying to dictate how I raise my children? You don’t or you accept the consequences. Tell me again how many children have you had?
I teach my children in LIFE and enhance their schooling as best I can. I do not teach them irrelevant bronze age daydreams of escaped slave hungry for power. One has chosen to try that path and he learned from religion what religion is and took steps (bloody big ones) away from their influence
YOU WILL NOT abuse my children by asking your dream of a bronze age myth (who condones terrorism, murder and subjugation) anything for my children. I, and they find the idea very obnoxious and I am sure that you as a good Muslim would never consider anything that the people involved found obnoxious
"Bigoted Christian child abusers"? No bias there, I see.
I also think you are wrong. I walked away from the church at 18. Twenty years later two of my children decided they wanted to be baptised. I had never brought them to church. They attended public school. The only thing I wanted to drill into their heads was that they are responsible for what they believe, and could never take the word of someone else. It is their responsibility to know. My eldest claims that I stiffled his infatuation with Christianity because his friends had taken him to some kind of music revival thing, and he returned home full of emotion over it. I warned him against that because no belief can be based on a purely emotional response. He was angry because I said it was great that he felt good, but asked him what he really knew about wanting to be a Christian. He does not attend church now. I simply did not want him swayed by people making noise and jumping around.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1340 Dec 7, 2013
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
..
Hello there, what plans do you have with the family this Christmas ?
I think you gotta do a lot of shopping
Quadratus

Seattle, WA

#1341 Dec 7, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello there, what plans do you have with the family this Christmas ?
I think you gotta do a lot of shopping
Tough year for us. Eldest daughter diagnosed with Lymes disease. Spending much on treatment. Were going to make it nice, but it wil be low key, at least as far as presents are concerned. Its gonna rock otherwise. We feel for Christmas probably
like you do for Ramadan. We read through the Christmas story during this season, and in the evenings when I get home from work we sing carols bake cookies, decorate, etc. The Christmas season is very inspirational for us.
One thing I really enjoy during Christmas is sutting on the couch after the kids are put to bed at night, turning out the lights and looking at the decorated tree with my wife while listening to Christmas saxaphone jazz. It doesnt get much
better than that.
On this topic, why do Muslims believe it is impossible for God to have a Son? Doesnt that limit God?
Quadratus

Seattle, WA

#1342 Dec 7, 2013
NinaRocks wrote:
<quoted text>
I am struck by your persistant need to read things into what is said so as to justify an emotional response. Is it that you are incapable of logic?
You are not the only one touched by tragedy. My own sister in law had multiple miscarrages and when they finally had a son, he died at four months. This is tragic, but it is also life. We all lose. I did not say anything about equating rebirth with the death of a child. When was anything said
about athiests being unfeeling nonhumans? I also don't allow myself to become angry enough over a meer discussion to reduce myself to name-calling and ridiculous euphemisms. You can't even say the word Christian(which is telling in itself, and speaks to your own fear, evasion and prudery), but must call them godbots or christards. How grown
up you are.
Since you are incapable of the logic necessary to answer my earlier post, I will spell it out for you:
If there is no god, no power higher than you to hold you to account, why could you not, then, murder your neighbor? Why should pedophilia be
wrong? There is no right but what you decide it is, is there?
This is a serious question, to which I would appreciate an unemotional, logical response.
That is a problem I have with Darwinism also. The highest moral standard drilled into our instincts by Darwinism is survival and procreation at all costs. That should be our highest instinct our most honored instinct. Yet we honor its opposite. Putting self aside to help the helpless is what we admire. How did that instinct come to be in an environment based entirely on natural selection?

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1343 Dec 7, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
But their sources were still old and from a chain of narrators which means they can never be truly trusted.
Alright, lets assume I told you that "christenm" told me That "thinking" told her that "abdullah" told him that "john" told him that "George" told him that "Albert" told him that "hassan" told him that he once was setting with Queen Elizabeth and queen Elizabeth told him "Dont wash your hands after eating"
now how can we know if this statement of queen Elizabeth is true or not ?
According to Hadith science the list of narrators is called Al Sanad, and the statement is Al matan.

Al Sanad contains me, christenm, thinking, abdullah, john, George, Albert, hassan.
Al Maten "Dont wash your hands after eating"
now what if we know that Queen Elizabeth died before the born of Hassan?!! this means that the statement of queen Elizabeth was obviously Fake.
what if we know that one of the narrators had a memory problem ?!! what if we know that one of the narrators was a knownto be a liar ?!! what if we know that one and only one of the narrators used to behave badly ? a very small mistake can instantly make a narrator unworthy of narrating a Hadith thus take the Hadith into a different type, an Authentic Hadith may go down to weak because of the behavior of one narrator.
what if we never received this statement about Queen Elizabeth in any other way beside this list of narrators ?!
what if the Statement ( Al Maten) contradicts directly with other authentic teachings ?!

science of Hadith isn't a game, its very accurate and complicated it mainly depends on details and specific criteria and standards, Authentic Hadiths were classified as authentic only after a complete correspondence with all these standards, some authentic Hadiths have hundreds of Isnad (different list of narrators) and all these different list of narrators literally match with the last statement of Mohammed (Al Matin), not to mention that all of this work was only in one language which is Arabic.
its not a coincidence we have numerous types of Hadith, authentic Hadiths are also classified into different types , good Hadiths were classified into different types as well, even the weak Hadiths were classified into numerous of types, thousands of hadiths were classified as false.

Science of hadith is a very wide scope, not any muslim can just come up and classify Hadiths as he want, there are numerous books that only show the basics of science of Hadith such ; "Mashariq Al Anwaar" of Al Saghani ,Al Masabeeh of Al Baghawi, "Jami Al Usool" of Ibn Kathir, "Scimces of Hadeeth" of Ibn Al Salah, "Al Taqrib and Taysir" of Al Nawawi , some scholars nowadays claim to be specialized in Hadith after reading some Hadith books...!!!
science of Hadith is way more complicated than you can imagine.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1344 Dec 7, 2013
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
Tough year for us. Eldest daughter diagnosed with Lymes disease. Spending much on treatment. Were going to make it nice, but it wil be low key, at least as far as presents are concerned. Its gonna rock otherwise. We feel for Christmas probably
like you do for Ramadan. We read through the Christmas story during this season, and in the evenings when I get home from work we sing carols bake cookies, decorate, etc. The Christmas season is very inspirational for us.
One thing I really enjoy during Christmas is sutting on the couch after the kids are put to bed at night, turning out the lights and looking at the decorated tree with my wife while listening to Christmas saxaphone jazz. It doesnt get much
better than that.
On this topic, why do Muslims believe it is impossible for God to have a Son? Doesnt that limit God?
Ooh I am really sorry, and will pray for your daughter to get better, inchalla some antibiotics and she'll be fine and ready to enjoy Christmas.
Actually Ramdan is different for us, we fast in Ramdan from dawn to sunset and after Ramdan we Have Eid Al fitter and later on Eid al Adha.

I think someone will have some fun after putting the kids to their beds, if you know what I mean ;) hahah yet with Christmas saxaphone jazz in the background.

for the differences between Christianity and Muslims you have to know that muslims believe that Jesus was sent by god.
at first Do you mind if we define what God is?
Would you agree that God ?

sees everything
hears everything
knows everything
has no beginning
has no end
is neither male nor female
is not like anything
is absolutely perfect
is perfect in His beauty, His love, and His majesty.
Quadratus

Seattle, WA

#1345 Dec 7, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Ooh I am really sorry, and will pray for your daughter to get better, inchalla some antibiotics and she'll be fine and ready to enjoy Christmas.
Actually Ramdan is different for us, we fast in Ramdan from dawn to sunset and after Ramdan we Have Eid Al fitter and later on Eid al Adha.
I think someone will have some fun after putting the kids to their beds, if you know what I mean ;) hahah yet with Christmas saxaphone jazz in the
background.
for the differences between Christianity and Muslims you have to know that muslims believe that Jesus was sent by god.
at first Do you mind if we define what God is?
Would you agree that God ?
sees everything
hears everything
knows everything
has no beginning
has no end
is neither male nor female
is not like anything
is absolutely perfect
is perfect in His beauty, His love, and His majesty.
I would agree with everything except that God is neither male nor female. The Bible represents God as masculine.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1346 Dec 7, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry I missed that one. Do you mean this verse?
24:40 Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it....
This is just a poetic description of a storm. If you have ever been out in a boat during a storm you would know about waves above waves.
Also the oceans internal waves are transparent and so can't be called a darkness.
Or [they are] like darknesses within an unfathomable sea which is covered by waves, upon which are waves, over which are clouds - darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom Allah has not granted light - for him there is no light.

in Arabic its obvious that the verse is describing the depth of the sea, " And he to whom Allah has not granted light - for him there is no light." and he to whom Allah has not granted light is describing the structure of some creatures whom live deep down in the water, there are numerous types of creatures with actual lights in their physical structure, I sent you a youtube link that shows some of these creatures.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1347 Dec 7, 2013
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree with everything except that God is neither male nor female. The Bible represents God as masculine.
yes even in the quran represents god as masculine but that doesnt make him a male, like the humans concept anyways if we agreed about that, I dont think that Jesus was like that, what do you think ?
Quadratus

Seattle, WA

#1348 Dec 7, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
yes even in the quran represents god as masculine but that doesnt make him a male, like the humans concept anyways if we agreed about that, I dont think that Jesus was like that, what do you think ?
Obviously not the physical characteristics, but His personality is male. He identifies Himself as the Father.
Its late and I have to speak tomorrow. Will continue tomirrow. Good night. Appreciate your concern for my daughter.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1349 Dec 7, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
The Quran is basically telling people to look at the wonders of the world and saying this is proof of God. Today science and philosophy disagree.
The Quranic verses contain numerous allegorical Questions,
52:33-38
-Or do they say, "He has made it up"? Rather, they do not believe.
-Then let them produce a statement like it, if they should be truthful.
-Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?
-Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain.
-Or have they the depositories [containing the provision] of your Lord? Or are they the controllers [of them]?
-Or have they a stairway [into the heaven] upon which they listen? Then let their listener produce a clear authority.

so what would your answer be for these allegorical Questions ..!!
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Religions are all for science up to the point when it starts questioning their beliefs, then they turn against it.
Actually Islam encourage or even insist on getting education and seeking for knowledge.
Quran and the message of Islam was not proved to be wrong nor contradicts with proved scientific facts.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Or the laws of physics are purely natural. Inserting a God just creates another unsolved problem.
Purely natural or obviously indicates a perfect Order not chaos ..!!
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
The Chinese were the first into the air on man sized kites.
If Abbas Ibn Firna had succeeded others would have copied him which rather suggests he only succeeded in surviving a long fall.
It doesnt matter who jumped first, Abbas could make a change in his days after a careful study to a single verse in the Quran, the point is Quran encourage science and the attempts to improve life on earth.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1350 Dec 7, 2013
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously not the physical characteristics, but His personality is male. He identifies Himself as the Father.
Its late and I have to speak tomorrow. Will continue tomirrow. Good night. Appreciate your concern for my daughter.
we'll continue our conversation tomorrow Inchalla,
regards to the family.
Mahmood

Keswick, Canada

#1351 Dec 8, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you have to put aside Allah's foreknowledge that anyone would be an evil person, and admit that its us who choose to do bad or good, So you cannot go and kill someone and simply say I killed because Allah knew that I would kill, its you who killed by your complete choice, its you who decided to do this and that and you never will be able to know what was written for you anyways, so you cannot take that as an excuse, everyone stands responsible for his own actions, not to mention that Duaa and prayers may change your Destiny.
<quoted text>
for the million time I don't discuss people actions , some people take advantage of Islam to justify their own actions, I only care about the authentic teachings of Quran and Mohammed thats it...!!!
<quoted text>
yes he is rasool Allah, he is also for me and for hundreds of millions of Muslims the best man ever walked on this earth, and yes there is an expansionist agenda for Islam, the purpose of this agenda is to spread justice but you are too blind to see the truth of it.
<quoted text>
thats exactly what people of Quraysh said.
36:78 "And he presents for Us an example and forgets his [own] creation. He says, "Who will give life to bones while they are disintegrated?"
Allah "Say, "He will give them life who produced them the first time; and He is, of all creation, Knowing."
36:81 "Is not He who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them? Yes,[it is so]; and He is the Knowing Creator. "
<quoted text>
actually no, Islam is the exact opposite, its all about free well, Islam only shows you the right path and the wrong path and the consequences of each path, after that it would up to you to choose.
8:21 "So remind,[O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder. "
8:22 "You are not over them a controller. "
Islam is a message to deliver the good news and the warnings.
<quoted text>
Yes of course the true message of Allah will be proclaimed over all religion, the victory will be for Islam whether you liked it or not, Mahmoud you have to bare in mind that the Quran affect different types of people, some people will never see the right path unless they read the torture,fear,regret, hell and fire verses , other people are strongly affected by rewards, paradise and heaven, there is a physiological wisdom behind all these verses.
if you counted the verses about hell and verses about heaven you'll find out that the verses are completely equal, Allah is clearly showing us that there are two ways in this life and its up to us to choose.
We cannot put aside allah's foreknowledge and claim that we have free will. If we have freewill, then Allah is not omniscient. Time and again in the Koran, Allah takes full responsiblity for guidance and misguidance.

28:56 - It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but God guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.

6:125 - Those whom God (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth God (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

What is your understanding of these verses? Looking forward to your response.
Quadratus

Seattle, WA

#1352 Dec 8, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
we'll continue our conversation tomorrow Inchalla,
regards to the family.
Anyway,
While certainly man cannot ever become God, God could become Man. We both would agree that this would not be too hard for Him. God through His Spirit could incorporate Himself into whatever He wished actually, and still retain every infinite aspect of the Spirit essense He is.
If the essense of God is trinity, He could do the same to the eternal Son and once again nothing of His Spirit essense would be lost.
If you believe this did not happen because your prophet said it didnt that us one thing. Our conversation then is about prophets. But if you believe it didnt because its impossible, I dont see iit that way. I think that limits God.

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