Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

Sep 14, 2013 Full story: Examiner.com 3,029

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

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“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1287 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems like you and I are just like the arab leaders; we agreed to disagree.
<quoted text>
Mashallahh May allah keep them safe for you, Just out of curiosity if anyone of them asked you about god what do you say ?!
Hey you don’t need to be an Arab leader to agree to disagree to anything. All you need is one person who is adamant that the distorted view of a bronze age subjugation and mythology will rule the world and another be believes in humanity, facts, evidence and logic. And I can assure you there are plenty of people of both persuasions (and others) in this world.

I tell the facts as acceptable for their age.

My boy was curious when he was 5, too young for me to tell the harsh facts of why I feel as I do about religious people. However I assume resulting form peer pressure he eventually chose to attend Sunday school. He went for almost 2 years and gave up last summer, as it turns out after considerable covert pressure and threats by certain members of the church to keep him. He eventually bucked up the courage to defy those threats of going to hell and upsetting god and left.

His twin never showed any interest, she is the quiet, thoughtful one and likes nothing more than joining me in my hobby of learning about Cro-Magnon artefacts and culture, except of course when she’s reading or playing with her Nintendo. She decided right from the start of school that god is in the mind and there was no space in hers for anything like that so would not be muddling up her thoughts by attending religious instruction lessons, she asked me to provide the letter excusing her. Note RI lessons are compulsory in English schools unless the child is opted out by the parents.

The youngest is too young for school yet but has shown the childish interest in her brothers Sunday excursions and hangs on every word he says about how they tried to coerce him into staying (I believe it is something he will never forgive religion for). She, like the others will eventually make up her own mind. The choice is hers and hers alone

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1288 Dec 5, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
That is apart of their game. They love to be all sentimental when it comes to preaching "god's love" but when they are confronted with the evil verses in the bible, they become lawyer like and will attempt to find any technicality they can to wiggle themselves out of trouble.
"Oh, is the past." "Oh, we listen to the NT, not the OT."
They are defense lawyers for their god.
<quoted text>
Anytime something good goes on,they praise God and say that he was responsible. When anything bad goes on, it's either the devil or the fault of humans.
That’s religion for you.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1289 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
if you believe that there is no purpose of life, no Holy Books, No prayers, No fasting no nothing you are clearly saying that there is no god, no creator and if there was one he wouldn't sent any prophets nor books to show people the right path, and dafinetly the whole universe was created out of chaos and for no specific reason, you could simply say I am an atheist.
Holy books, prayer and fasting are not a purpose to life, they are cult activities.

The rest follows on…
Mahmood

Markham, Canada

#1290 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
if you believe that there is no purpose of life, no Holy Books, No prayers, No fasting no nothing you are clearly saying that there is no god, no creator and if there was one he wouldn't sent any prophets nor books to show people the right path, and dafinetly the whole universe was created out of chaos and for no specific reason, you could simply say I am an atheist.
Let's assume that there is a higher power of some sorts, based on what evidence do you claim that this higher power has anything to do with organized religion?
Quadratus

United States

#1291 Dec 5, 2013
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's assume that there is a higher power of some sorts, based on what evidence do you claim that this higher power has anything to do with organized religion?
The universality and persistance of religion suggests there is a need for God hardwired in our genome. This need expresses itself in religion. By necessity it must become organized.
Assuming there is a God, then He created uz this way.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1292 Dec 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey you don’t need to be an Arab leader to agree to disagree to anything. All you need is one person who is adamant that the distorted view of a bronze age subjugation and mythology will rule the world and another be believes in humanity, facts, evidence and logic. And I can assure you there are plenty of people of both persuasions (and others) in this world.
why do you have to take every word I say seriously ?!! its a lame joke about the Arab leaders who agreed to disagree and left Palestinians and other Muslims suffering, anyways if you consider yourself as a believer of humanity, facts, evidence and logic I recommend you to reread our conversation from the beginning, you'll be shocked..!!

because as far as I know you still haven't stated nor suggested one solution to mankind problems, I think you are the one who is adamant that the distorted image of democracy and freedom offer to mankind a perfect world.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1293 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't matter as long as Mohammed and his companions after his death applied the punishment of stoning, that would make it as a law, its Sunnah.
If the Quran's verse on stoning has been abrogated doesn't that suggest the hadiths have also been abrogated?

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1294 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes of course there are still open to a lot of interpretation, thats why we have Hadith scientists (Ulama'a) Al Hadith, we have numerous types of Hadiths and can easily tell which one is authentic and which is weak or even unavailable.
No, hadith scientists have to guess which hadiths are reliable because they weren't written down until over a hundred years after the events they describe and they all rely on a chain of narrators. Thus there's plenty of room for errors, embellishments or even frauds (and some Muslims were accused of inventing hadiths).
hazem selawi wrote:
we already discussed the scientific facts in Quran, although such facts completely prove the honesty of Mohammed and his prophecy you seemed not to like any of them.
And I've shown that those claims for scientific miracles are either weak or false.
hazem selawi wrote:
yes exactly he sends us to hell if we got it wrong, but we should feel that what we did is wrong, and in your case you cannot be right when you say that the universe came out of nothing, you yourself dont think its logical.
Whilst science can't yet explain why there is a universe, just inserting a God solves nothing as you now need to explain why there's a God and that's just a big a problem as the unexplained existence of the universe.

And your God still has an ego problem.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1295 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
There are numerous verses which was memorized and read by Muslims through hundreds of years, they just read it and explained it generally, some of these verses were found out to be holding a complicated facts which were proved recently by modern science,
this verse may be talking about a scientific fact that we still haven't discovered yet, you have to bare in mind that the Quran should fit at anytime and anywhere since its supposed to be the last true message, yesterday I watched a video of a scholar who talks about that Surah Al Kahf and he thinks that thul qarnayn (the one who saw the sun setting) may had the ability to to travel through planets and these metaphors explain other planets' structures, Remember the Dam he built out of copper and melted iron , the scholar thinks that this explanation may be referring to a planet, 18:90 " Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. " whom we had not made against it any shield means that those people probably had the sun up all the time and never had night, the Quran is pointing to a specific location which is the location of Gog and magog, all these explanations remain as theories only.
The story of Thul Qarnayn in Surat Al Kahf Carry a lot of metaphysical issues.
Gog and Magog according to Quran and Sunnah is a very weird kind of people who will come out at the end of days and spread corruption, in order to come out they have to destroy the dam Thul qarnayn built, so many scholars tried to determine the location of these people, some even said they are already out and controlling the world, if you are interested in such issues I recommend scholar Imran Hussain he is from Malaysia and consider himself as specialized in Gog and magog and the hidden messages of Surat al Kahf, he participated in making a project called the Wake up project its a series of 52 videos on Youtube that try to explain the hidden messages of Surat Al Kahf and our modern age.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ArrivalsHD
You are aware that surah 18 was a test don't you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kahf#Circumst...

“The rabbis told the men to ask Muhammad three questions:
They [the rabbis] said, "Ask him about three things which we will tell you to ask, and if he answers them then he is a Prophet who has been sent; if he does not, then he is saying things that are not true, in which case how you will deal with him will be up to you. Ask him about some young men in ancient times, what was their story For theirs is a strange and wondrous tale. Ask him about a man who travelled a great deal and reached the east and the west of the earth. What was his story And ask him about the Ruh (soul or spirit)– what is it? If he tells you about these things, then he is a Prophet, so follow him, but if he does not tell you, then he is a man who is making things up, so deal with him as you see fit."[7]”

Presumably the rabbis asked questions they thought they knew the answers too, so we just need to ask them (and they think Thul Qarnayn was Alexander the Great).

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1296 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
why do you have to take every word I say seriously ?!! its a lame joke about the Arab leaders who agreed to disagree and left Palestinians and other Muslims suffering, anyways if you consider yourself as a believer of humanity, facts, evidence and logic I recommend you to reread our conversation from the beginning, you'll be shocked..!!
because as far as I know you still haven't stated nor suggested one solution to mankind problems, I think you are the one who is adamant that the distorted image of democracy and freedom offer to mankind a perfect world.
Well there is the point that I am not a mind readier and topix was never very good at portraying boy language

Ehm, as I remember I agreed with you about the inhuman treatment of Palestinians, and only in some of the relevance of history did we disagree.

It is not up to me so solve the problems of the world, that is the job of diplomats and politicians. However I can recommend one suggestion made by Edward de Bono, he originated the term lateral thinking and takes the problems of the middle east very seriously.

His thinking was

1 - There is much strife, anger and aggression in the middle east

2 – Lack of zinc in the body is known to increase strife, anger and aggression

3 – Most civilisations get adequate zinc from the staple food, bread however the bread made in the middle east is low in zinc

Solution, send Marmite, rich in zinc.

Oh sorry, was it me or was it you who came on this thread evangelising the cause of Islam. Just give me a moment to think. OK, I’ve got it, it was …..

There will never be a perfect world while minority groups turn terrorist and kill people indiscriminately. It seems for your previous posts that you advocate terrorism. I have been a victim of terrorism (no, not muslim terrorism but christian, however besides the point, an indiscriminate terrorist killer is still a killer no matter what his faith) so as you say we will never agree.

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#1298 Dec 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Well there is the point that I am not a mind readier and topix was never very good at portraying boy language
Ehm, as I remember I agreed with you about the inhuman treatment of Palestinians, and only in some of the relevance of history did we disagree.
It is not up to me so solve the problems of the world, that is the job of diplomats and politicians. However I can recommend one suggestion made by Edward de Bono, he originated the term lateral thinking and takes the problems of the middle east very seriously.
His thinking was
1 - There is much strife, anger and aggression in the middle east
2 – Lack of zinc in the body is known to increase strife, anger and aggression
3 – Most civilisations get adequate zinc from the staple food, bread however the bread made in the middle east is low in zinc
Solution, send Marmite, rich in zinc.
Oh sorry, was it me or was it you who came on this thread evangelising the cause of Islam. Just give me a moment to think. OK, I’ve got it, it was …..
There will never be a perfect world while minority groups turn terrorist and kill people indiscriminately. It seems for your previous posts that you advocate terrorism. I have been a victim of terrorism (no, not muslim terrorism but christian, however besides the point, an indiscriminate terrorist killer is still a killer no matter what his faith) so as you say we will never agree.
can you elaborate on "christian terrorism" that you are a victim of?
Mahmood

Markham, Canada

#1299 Dec 5, 2013
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
The universality and persistance of religion suggests there is a need for God hardwired in our genome. This need expresses itself in religion. By necessity it must become organized.
Assuming there is a God, then He created uz this way.
Bloody bronze age dogmas. Stories that didn't happen can be infinitely more powerful than stories that did happen. The is no key to unlock oral traditions.

He that will not reason is a bigot, he that cannot reason is a fool, he that dares not to reason is a slave - William Drummond.

“who will be left to speak out?”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1300 Dec 5, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
That is apart of their game. They love to be all sentimental when it comes to preaching "god's love" but when they are confronted with the evil verses in the bible, they become lawyer like and will attempt to find any technicality they can to wiggle themselves out of trouble.
"Oh, is the past." "Oh, we listen to the NT, not the OT."
They are defense lawyers for their god.
<quoted text>
Anytime something good goes on,they praise God and say that he was responsible. When anything bad goes on, it's either the devil or the fault of humans.
And you, of course, are completely unbiased.

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#1301 Dec 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Which god?
the only one who made people who are capable of questioning him

“who will be left to speak out?”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1302 Dec 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I read exactly what you wrote several times because I did not really believe it in the context of the ongoing discussion the first couple of times, and I responded in a perfectly logical and factual way.
Fact - More babies die in birth than godbots die saying “”look everyone I am saved because I believe”(in a bronze age myth). In fact I know of three couples who have lost children during child birth (or in the last days of pregnancy). Yet despite my best fiend being a highly respected BAC who is quite high up in the church hierarchy, I can honestly say that I have never heard of anyone dying while being “born again”
Logic – Are the documented death rates for deaths during birth higher than the documented death rates for godbots dying while saying “”look everyone I am saved because I believe in a bronze age myth. Yes they are hence a logically sound argument.
Unless you can prove a 400 year old quote by an (admittedly brilliant) theologian correct and prove me wrong. I eagerly await your response.
You still don't understand him, so there is no point in further discussion on that point with you.
As far as dead babies, what do dead babies matter in an Atheist world? People do not die when they are born again, but there are many who have been born again while on their death bed. Which is a discussion still besides the point.
Any discussion which somehow involve atheism or Christianity devolves into an argument about the veracity of beleif in a higher power, and usually targets Islam and Christians. The point of this thread was the question of pedophilia. Where is the discussion about this?
I no longer think it is worth discussion, because I realize that one cannot be shocked about the immorality of someone who has no code of ethics. If you are an Athiest, then it follows that you are your own god. You may do whatever you wish, and there is no reason to respect someone else whether they be a child or not. If you are answerable to no one, and there are no consequences, so why should pedophilia be wrong?
What 'church hierarchy'? No Christian stands above another. Some take on more responsibility....

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1303 Dec 5, 2013
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's assume that there is a higher power of some sorts, based on what evidence do you claim that this higher power has anything to do with organized religion?
Dont answer my question with another question, we are now discussing your new religion not mine; so if You really believe that there is a creator, would it make sense that he didnt send any prophets to teach us anything ?!
lets suppose you invented mm a flying suit for instance ..!!!
you would dafinetly have a reason and a purpose behind this invention and would certainly write a brochure for users, the same thing goes for the creator he created us and the whole universe he also put different rules to maintain and guarantee a perfect life.

The creator would be unjust if he left us without guidance, its like creating humans and leaving them in darkness, if you Just took a cup of glass and throw it at the floor you'll have a complete chaos, take a good look at the world we are living in, you will find accuracy, Ingenuity and order.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1304 Dec 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I tell the facts as acceptable for their age.
My boy was curious when he was 5, too young for me to tell the harsh facts of why I feel as I do about religious people. However I assume resulting form peer pressure he eventually chose to attend Sunday school. He went for almost 2 years and gave up last summer, as it turns out after considerable covert pressure and threats by certain members of the church to keep him. He eventually bucked up the courage to defy those threats of going to hell and upsetting god and left.
its completely a natural thing that kids believe in god, everyone is born as a believer then it will be up to parents to guide their childs to different beliefs, I really respect that you didn't guide your son to atheism, But I am sure he noticed that his mom never goes to the church or mentions anything about god in front of him.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
His twin never showed any interest, she is the quiet, thoughtful one and likes nothing more than joining me in my hobby of learning about Cro-Magnon artefacts and culture, except of course when she’s reading or playing with her Nintendo. She decided right from the start of school that god is in the mind and there was no space in hers for anything like that so would not be muddling up her thoughts by attending religious instruction lessons, she asked me to provide the letter excusing her. Note RI lessons are compulsory in English schools unless the child is opted out by the parents.
its kind of weird that this daughter of yours grew up to be like you because usually girls at this age look up to their father, and I can assure you that kids at this age always believe in god because its the normal thing, being an atheist is abnormal.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
The youngest is too young for school yet but has shown the childish interest in her brothers Sunday excursions and hangs on every word he says about how they tried to coerce him into staying (I believe it is something he will never forgive religion for). She, like the others will eventually make up her own mind. The choice is hers and hers alone
yes dafinetly the choice is hers I do believe you, on the other hand I think you may be accidentally guiding all your kids into non believing because you are their role model and they will always look up to you and your husband, anyways I ask Allah to keep them safe and happy.
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

#1305 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Dont answer my question with another question, we are now discussing your new religion not mine; so if You really believe that there is a creator, would it make sense that he didnt send any prophets to teach us anything ?!
lets suppose you invented mm a flying suit for instance ..!!!
you would dafinetly have a reason and a purpose behind this invention and would certainly write a brochure for users, the same thing goes for the creator he created us and the whole universe he also put different rules to maintain and guarantee a perfect life.
The creator would be unjust if he left us without guidance, its like creating humans and leaving them in darkness, if you Just took a cup of glass and throw it at the floor you'll have a complete chaos, take a good look at the world we are living in, you will find accuracy, Ingenuity and order.
If there is a creator and he happens to be Allah, then he is unjust. He is Rehman and Rahim only on his own terms. The world is full of suffering and misery. If a god is all-loving, merciful, kind, compassionate and the like, how can he tolerate pain, misery and arbitrary suffering, independent of the merits of the sufferer? If you questions do not make sense, I have counter-question.
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

#1306 Dec 5, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Dont answer my question with another question, we are now discussing your new religion not mine; so if You really believe that there is a creator, would it make sense that he didnt send any prophets to teach us anything ?!
lets suppose you invented mm a flying suit for instance ..!!!
you would dafinetly have a reason and a purpose behind this invention and would certainly write a brochure for users, the same thing goes for the creator he created us and the whole universe he also put different rules to maintain and guarantee a perfect life.
The creator would be unjust if he left us without guidance, its like creating humans and leaving them in darkness, if you Just took a cup of glass and throw it at the floor you'll have a complete chaos, take a good look at the world we are living in, you will find accuracy, Ingenuity and order.
How many times do I have to tell you that I do not have a religion. Dont put words in my mouth.
Thinking

Windsor, UK

#1307 Dec 6, 2013
Straw man BS.

Remember the paedophilia in question in this thread was that of a priest.
NinaRocks wrote:
<quoted text>
You still don't understand him, so there is no point in further discussion on that point with you.
As far as dead babies, what do dead babies matter in an Atheist world? People do not die when they are born again, but there are many who have been born again while on their death bed. Which is a discussion still besides the point.
Any discussion which somehow involve atheism or Christianity devolves into an argument about the veracity of beleif in a higher power, and usually targets Islam and Christians. The point of this thread was the question of pedophilia. Where is the discussion about this?
I no longer think it is worth discussion, because I realize that one cannot be shocked about the immorality of someone who has no code of ethics. If you are an Athiest, then it follows that you are your own god. You may do whatever you wish, and there is no reason to respect someone else whether they be a child or not. If you are answerable to no one, and there are no consequences, so why should pedophilia be wrong?
What 'church hierarchy'? No Christian stands above another. Some take on more responsibility....

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