Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3049 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#928 Nov 23, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you Have a point, But its not that easy to know everything in Islam, so why not quoting from a trusted websites which follow the actual and correct method and criteria of Islamic teachings.
Ahh another excuse, you are so good at them now, it almost comes naturally

Yes he has a point, if you want to plagiarise and “distort” to make your god seem more honest then you are on a looser form word one.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#929 Nov 23, 2013
from - not form
Thinking

Windsor, UK

#930 Nov 23, 2013
The point is that you a plagiarist and therefore not to be trusted.
If you quoted your sources you'd look less dishonest.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you Have a point, But its not that easy to know everything in Islam, so why not quoting from a trusted websites which follow the actual and correct method and criteria of Islamic teachings.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#931 Nov 23, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
Islam teaches that it is okay for husbands to hit their wives.<quoted text>
Mohammed peace be upon him never hit any of his wives ..!!!
get me one proof that Islam teaches that it is okay for husbands to hit their wives, you may get this verse 4:34

"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance -[first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

this verse explains how to solve problems between a husband and wife , there are specific steps , first if a problem occurred you should speak with your wife and advice her, if the problem was still not solved forsake in bed which means you should stop the intimacy for a while, if the problem is still there you should leave the house for a while, what was translated as strike them in this verse is for the verb (Daraba) or (Yadreb) in this verse the verb is (EDRoboohona) edroboohna has so many meanings in Arabic one of them means leaving for a while.

The Arabic word used in Verse 4:34 above is "idribuhunna", which is derived from "daraba" which means "beat". The issue with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word "daraba" is that they don't necessarily mean "hit". The word "idribuhunna" for instance, could very well mean to "leave" them. It is exactly like telling someone to "beat it" or "drop it" in English.

Allah used the word "daraba" in Noble Verse 14:24 "Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable?-- A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens". "daraba" here meant "give an example". If I say in Arabic "daraba laka mathal", it means "give you an example".
for further explanation about this verse and Islamic teachings of resolving problems between husbands and wife you can check this link http://www.islamawareness.net/Wife/beating1.h...

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#932 Nov 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
The point is that you a plagiarist and therefore not to be trusted.
If you quoted your sources you'd look less dishonest.
<quoted text>
you are quoting from a screwed websites by a way or another, most of guys here just Googled contradictions in Quran, violence in Islam , Killing and beating of women in Islam ...!!!
and after that they come here bragging about how they have knowledge about Islam and Quran, some of guys even pretended that they found contradictions by themselves.

you never considered to take a look into what true Muslims actually say, so I am doing your job, you may have the right to call me a plagiarist but you are certainly a very lazy researcher, your arrogance and ego prevents you from spending 5 minutes reading what the other part is saying.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#933 Nov 23, 2013
Tafsir Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi

"(Men are in charge of women…)[4:34]. Said Muqatil:“This verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed about Sa‘d ibn al-Rabi‘, who was one of the leaders of the Helpers (nuqaba’), and his wife Habibah bint Zayd ibn Abi Zuhayr, both of whom from the Helpers. It happened Sa‘d hit his wife on the face because she rebelled against him. Then her father went with her to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. He said to him:‘I gave him my daughter in marriage and he slapped her’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘Let her have retaliation against her husband’. As she was leaving with her father to execute retaliation, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, called them and said:‘Come back; Gabriel has come to me’, and Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘We wanted something while Allah wanted something else, and that which Allah wants is good’. Retaliation was then suspended”. Sa‘id ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Zahid informed us> Zahir ibn Ahmad> Ahmad ibn al-Husayn ibn Junayd> Ziyad ibn Ayyub> Hushaym> Yunus ibn al-Hasan who reported that a man slapped his wife and she complained about him to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. Her family who went with her said:“O Messenger of Allah! So-and-so has slapped our girl”. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, kept saying:“Retaliation! Retaliation! And there is no other judgement to be held”. But then this verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed and the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:“We wanted something and Allah wanted something else”. Abu Bakr al-Harithi informed us> Abu’l-Shaykh al-Hafiz> Abu Yahya al-Razi> Sahl al-‘Askari> ‘Ali ibn Hashim> Isma‘il> al-Hasan who said:“Around the time when the verse on retaliation was revealed amongst the Muslims, a man had slapped his wife. She went to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace and said:‘My husband has slapped me and I want retaliation’. So he said:‘Let there be retaliation’. As he was still dealing with her, Allah, exalted is He, revealed (Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other…). Upon which the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘We wanted something and my Lord wanted something different. O man, take your wife by the hand’”."
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#934 Nov 23, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Muhammad had arrived in Medina as a refugee. He repaid their kindness by starting a war against Mecca without their permission. In doing so he broke every treaty he had signed with anyone.
The Jewish tribes especially had no reason to back him.
At first just allow me to say that I admire the way you reply to my posts, it shows that you are a very organized man who certainly knows how to make the discussion go smoothly in a very organized matter, anyhow If I were you I would say that Mohammed repaid their kindness by starting a war against Mecca , But what you don’t know is how much people of Madina loved prophet Mohammed and his companions, besides they knew what they got themselves into and Mohammed organized their life in different aspects , and we shouldn’t forget that Muslims in Al Madina defeated Mecca which was the most powerful city in Arabia, there are a speech in Mohammed biography to people of al Madina AL ANSAR, AL ANSAR have a very special status in mohammed's and muslims hearts , even after the victory of Islam after so many years , Mohammed refused to live in his own home MEKKAH and decided to live in Al Madina with his beloved friends and companions AL ANSAR.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
If a fake preacher had tried to start a cult in Mecca, would you have considered the Meccan's reaction too harsh or too lenient?
They didn't believe he was a prophet but rather that he was mad (it says so in the Quran).
If I were to go into a Muslim country and preach against Islam I would be quickly arrested and possibly sentenced to death.
So by Islam's own standards Muhammad and his followers got of very lightly.
Mohammed was Mad and sad because he was afraid of his people in Mekkah from going to Hell after all they are his people and his family, he wanted them to believe in the creator instead of worshiping idols, they were living in a very harsh environment, where the strong kills the weak, enslaving, some buried their own infant daughters alive and mistreated their women horribly and later on Allah replied To mohammed not to be sad because eventually the victory will be to Islam, infidels in Mekka didn’t want Islam because they were very stubborn and didn’t want to lose their position in the society , because apparently Islam teaches that the most noble of people in the sight of Allah is the most righteous not the most powerful or the richest , thus the whole community of theirs will be changed, they would have to leave worshiping fake idols like Al UZZA and would have to pay Zakkah for the poor and orphans and that was something they surely didn’t want.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>

So there was still plenty of contact between the Muslims of Mecca and Medina. That hardly suggest they were being heavily persecuted.
the immigration to Al Madina (Yathreb) was not the first immigration to Muslims, Muslims were persecuted In Mekkah more than you can imagine , there are numerous stories and authentic Hadiths about how muslims were persecuted in Mekkah and their staying was very critical, you can read this story about a new convert to Islam and what happened to him in Mekkah , his name is ammar Yasser, his parents were tortured and killed by Abu Jahl (mohammed’s uncle) in front of him just because they believed in Mohammed prophecy and the creator .http://www.alseraj.net/maktab a/kotob/english/historyofislam /TheCompanionsoftheHolyProphet /Books/Companions/608.htm

another story about bilal bin Rabah the black slave of Umayya bin Khalaf who was tortured and almost killed by his owner http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/4722/vi...

not to mention that Mecca leaders tried to kill Mohammed several times, the infidels of Mekkah certainly didn’t welcome Islam, it could make a slave better than his owner, and FYI Muslims immigrated to al Madina secretly , and before that there were multiple immigrations to Yemmen and al Habasha.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#935 Nov 23, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Your opinion is your opinion and you opinion is particularly biased and based on lies designed to make you own terrorists feel better and help recruitment of willing idiots who believe the promise of 72 virgins.


Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3834 Narrated by Al-Miqdam ibn Ma'dikarib
Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "The martyr receives six good things from Allah: he is forgiven at the first shedding of his blood; he is shown his abode in Paradise; he is preserved from the punishment in the grave; he is kept safe from the greatest terror; he has placed on his head the crown of honour, a ruby of which is better than the world and what it contains; he is married to seventy-two wives of the maidens with large dark eyes; and is made intercessor for seventy of his relatives."

You cannot ignore the fact that men are attracted to women; it is a fact that we notice everyday in newspapers, TV shows and advertisements, the looks of women are now used to attract customers; Islam strongly prohibits using women as objects, anyhow you may see it unrealistic
for the martyr to get 72 wives, I say there is a physiological wisdom and a motive behind this specific Hadith and numerous verses in Quran about paradise and the rewards believers and good people may receive in the afterlife not only for Jihad, anyhow we should know who is the true martyr in Islam, the martyr fights for Allah and Allah only, to spread justice or to defend Muslim lands and Muslim brothers and sisters, if someone did it for the reputation or any other reason Allah will not reward him of anything, thus the intention of the fighter really matters, these hidden rewards make a very good motive for muslims to do good things and to avoid anything bad, besides there are numerous verses in the Quran talks about hell and describe it accurately , so true Muslims should do as good as they can to go to heaven and prevent doing bad as much as they can to prevent going to hell, taking in consideration that doing good deeds with a very Good faith may wash their sins.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
WHO THE FOOK was responsible for flying planes into the twin towers because I know I was not.
Al-Jazeera interviews and later interrogations in the US of al-Qaeda members Ramzi bin al-Shibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed show that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the instigator and prime organizer of the attacks. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was an al-Qaeda member with access to their leaders.
Al-Qaeda's spokesman, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, sent a video to al Jazeera in October 2001 stating :- The Americans should know that the storm of plane attacks will not abate, with God's permission. There are thousands of the Islamic nations' youths who are eager to die just as the Americans are eager to live
So where was this 5 year old boy educated, the local al-qaeda sponsored terrorists madrasa?
everybody will be questioned for his/her actions in front of the creator, AL Qaida doesn’t represent Islam, You and I don’t want that Islam in the newspaper or in the Media, Actually I hate that religion the media talks about, Al Qaida may have a different point of view , I am not saying they are wrong or right, there is a problem with al Qaida people is that they don’t explain Quran correctly or just wanted to justify their actions by the name of Islam, or just wanted to take revenge .

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#936 Nov 23, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
NATO intervened in Iraq for various stated reasons, many of which were proven to be lies, however oil comes pretty low down that list and is used as an excuse by your fellow America haters. You may have noticed that the US has considerable quantities of oil and gas of it’s own to the extent that both are as cheap as dishwater compared to European countries. Arabian oil accounts for less than 12% of US oil usage. So the invasion for oil excuse does not wash with people who are able to think for themselves, I can see that thinking for yourself would be a major problem for you.
apparently politics is way bigger than you and I, so just leave it aside, it’s not my favorite subject, But I know one thing for sure which is oil is not just about usage, oil technically controls World Economy.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Honey you are once again mocking my intelligence, I got those figures from independent sources and I used the lower figures available. i.e. several academic/university statistical sources and UN data.
I just wanted the sources of information.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, I apologise for my gaf there, I meant Iraqi, I have dyslexia and did not notice the error. The colleges I mentioned are Iraqi, not Iranian. The sentence should have read - Most certainly the Muslims I know (including 3 Iraqis) are glad for the intervention.
ooh that explains a lot , at first let me add that I am not a big fan of Saddam either, and I do know a lot of Iraqis who really were glad for the intervention, it turned out later that those glad Iraqis literally stole millions and escaped, But I among millions of Muslims will never forget the crimes were done by American invaders to the innocent civilians, besides nobody put America as the baby sitter of the world .
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Arab jihadists in Afghanistan spent great effort removing the soviet invaders with US backing and help. After they had succeeded in that they turned the weapons supplied by the west on their western allies. Such nice and trustworthy people those Taliban.
My lovely UN is controlled partly by your government. You may not like this but it is FACT. Grow a set of balls and accept that fact like a man. However do you have any evidence that the UN is controlled by the arms industry, IMF and Petroleum industry, or are you just repeating a slander?
Actually the west back stabbed afghans as they promised them to give them a formal Islamic government and a full Recognition, the history repeats itself just like what british did with Arabs 1916 , there was an agreement between the Hashimite (arab leaders at that time) and the british government, the Arabs were supposed to drain down the Islamic ottoman empire from the inside (Great Arab Revolt) and in return the British will give a full recognition of a united Arab empire , and the very next day Ottomon empire Collapsed; palastine turned into isreal and the ottoman empire was divided into so many small weak countries, The Hashimte made a very big mistake which is becoming allies with the infidels against the Islamic state, Arabs broke an obvious and direct order in the Quran , so don’t come and tell me your country is a part of the UN, all the Arab leaders are betrayers, who betrayed and still betraying Islam and Muslims

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#937 Nov 23, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
Tafsir Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi
"(Men are in charge of women…)[4:34]. Said Muqatil:“This verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed about Sa‘d ibn al-Rabi‘, who was one of the leaders of the Helpers (nuqaba’), and his wife Habibah bint Zayd ibn Abi Zuhayr, both of whom from the Helpers. It happened Sa‘d hit his wife on the face because she rebelled against him. Then her father went with her to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. He said to him:‘I gave him my daughter in marriage and he slapped her’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘Let her have retaliation against her husband’. As she was leaving with her father to execute retaliation, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, called them and said:‘Come back; Gabriel has come to me’, and Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘We wanted something while Allah wanted something else, and that which Allah wants is good’. Retaliation was then suspended”. Sa‘id ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Zahid informed us> Zahir ibn Ahmad> Ahmad ibn al-Husayn ibn Junayd> Ziyad ibn Ayyub> Hushaym> Yunus ibn al-Hasan who reported that a man slapped his wife and she complained about him to the Prophet,”."
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...
Igor trip now you are doing like Al Qaida people, you only take the verse as it is, this is very dangerous method and may take you to a very false Conclusions, the verses of Quran are not enough to explain the teachings of Islam , you should take in consideration multiple hadith and acts of Mohammed and you have to bare in mind that different cases should be dealt one by another because obviously each case has different circumstances,
you can read another explanation from the same website you indicated http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...

not to mention the numerous verses and Hadith of Mohammed regarding the treatment of women such as :

"O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor
should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty
of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike
a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.4:19 (The Women)

“ O my people! You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you---
They are the trust of Allah in your hands, so you must treat them with all kindness.” Muslim (15:19)

" Admonish your wives with kindness."
(Page 790, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)

“ A person who ill-treats his wife during the day and loves her at night, acts in complete
contradiction of the beauty of human nature.”
( Page 801, 8500 Precious Gems,- Allahdin Publications)

" Woman is fragile like glass, and men should therefore treat women with delicacy and
tenderness as they would handle an article made of glass."

“The more civil and the kinder is a Muslim to his wife, the more perfect of faith he has; fear God
with reference to two meek beings, woman and orphan.”

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#938 Nov 23, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>

There can be NO ARGUMENT, NO DENIAL that the Sahih International version of the quran verse 4:34
reads
“Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance -[first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.”


As I told your fellow “Igor trip” you are doing like Al Qaida people, you explain verses solely , you don’t take in consideration the acts of Mohammed and Authentic Hadith, for instance the Quran only says pray and pay Zakkah, but how come we pray 5 times a day ?!!! the quran says nothing about 5 prayers a day nor how to do it , Allah also orders us in the Quran to pay Zakkah ..!! but how did we know that Zakkah is 2.5% of the yearly wealth, so in order to understand Islam correctly you should know that Quran and Hadith is the source of rules and teachings, we cannot take Quran solely and not Hadith solely either, we also have to take in consideration the circumstances of each case, you can check some of the hadiths I wrote to Igor trip( post #937)
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Other English translations are similar in content
Pickthall: Men are in charge of women…
Arberry: Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another…
we cannot ignore the fact that women are better than men in doing specific duties and men are better in other things, for instance women are way more Emotional than men, that’s why we rarely see women working as a taxi drivers or in the construction field…etc
men are usually shrill and have a stronger Physical structure than women thus men are in charge and responsible for women so they can protect them, but we have to bare in mind that being in charge should be of what pleases Allah by depending on other teachings and rules not to mention that The Husband should consult his wife in every matter, you previously indicated that the Man can divorce his wife by only saying Talliq which is true , its not a coincidence that the man can say TalliQ (there are specific Rules for Talaq ), Talliq means the end of a relationship and maybe the end of a whole family, so since men are less emotional than women , they would be more patient and wouldn't not say Talliq for the smallest reasons, on the other hand if a woman wanted a divorce she could go to court and tell an Islamic judge that she wants divorce and explain the reasons, not to mention that its prohibited for the man to say Talliq for his wife for no reason (there should be a very important reason), for further info about Islamic divorce you can check this link http://www.islamawareness.net/Talaq/talaq_boo...

“And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. 30:21 “

“ O my people! You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you---
They are the trust of Allah in your hands, so you must treat them with all kindness.” Muslim (15:19)

you keep accusing me of being a liar, haven't you ever wondered how would that benefit me ?!! I don't really care if I proved a point or not, its just my duty to explain Islamic rules due to my knowledge,lets assume that we tricked the whole world into Islam , how could that be beneficial to anyone ...!!!

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#939 Nov 23, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove the god you're lying about first, then prove all your ignorant conspiracies. We can only deal with one lie at a time...
Wallahi I respect you skepctic for being the only one who focused from the very beginning on a specific subject which is proving the existence of A creator.

Hang in there, your insistence really shows that you are on the right path to find the truth.
Washington

Portland, OR

#940 Nov 23, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
"the premise of Judeo-Christian principles"
Such a premise is why e were persecuted in the first place. america is more tolerant because it is less religious
If it was less religious the Government would slowly but surely take each individuals rights and liberties away but since there is some Christian influence in the Government we have liberty you can call Judeo Christianity stupid all you like but it is what gives you the freedoms you as a citizen enjoy. Thomas Jefferson once said " When the Government fears the people its freedom but when the people fear the Government its tyranny."

Since: Apr 12

Martinez, CA

#941 Nov 23, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
Wallahi I respect you skepctic for being the only one who focused from the very beginning on a specific subject which is proving the existence of A creator.
Hang in there, your insistence really shows that you are on the right path to find the truth.
Be careful, your humor is showing :)

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#942 Nov 24, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Igor trip now you are doing like Al Qaida people, you only take the verse as it is, this is very dangerous method and may take you to a very false Conclusions, the verses of Quran are not enough to explain the teachings of Islam , you should take in consideration multiple hadith and acts of Mohammed and you have to bare in mind that different cases should be dealt one by another because obviously each case has different circumstances,
you can read another explanation from the same website you indicated http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...
not to mention the numerous verses and Hadith of Mohammed regarding the treatment of women such as :
"O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor
should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty
of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike
a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.4:19 (The Women)
“ O my people! You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you---
They are the trust of Allah in your hands, so you must treat them with all kindness.” Muslim (15:19)
" Admonish your wives with kindness."
(Page 790, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)
“ A person who ill-treats his wife during the day and loves her at night, acts in complete
contradiction of the beauty of human nature.”
( Page 801, 8500 Precious Gems,- Allahdin Publications)
" Woman is fragile like glass, and men should therefore treat women with delicacy and
tenderness as they would handle an article made of glass."
“The more civil and the kinder is a Muslim to his wife, the more perfect of faith he has; fear God
with reference to two meek beings, woman and orphan.”
Wouldn't a list of hadiths be more reliable than the opinion of a Tafsir writer?

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#943 Nov 24, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
At first just allow me to say that I admire the way you reply to my posts, it shows that you are a very organized man who certainly knows how to make the discussion go smoothly in a very organized matter, anyhow If I were you I would say that Mohammed repaid their kindness by starting a war against Mecca , But what you don’t know is how much people of Madina loved prophet Mohammed and his companions, besides they knew what they got themselves into and Mohammed organized their life in different aspects , and we shouldn’t forget that Muslims in Al Madina defeated Mecca which was the most powerful city in Arabia, there are a speech in Mohammed biography to people of al Madina AL ANSAR, AL ANSAR have a very special status in mohammed's and muslims hearts , even after the victory of Islam after so many years , Mohammed refused to live in his own home MEKKAH and decided to live in Al Madina with his beloved friends and companions AL ANSAR.
After all those who disliked Muhammad had been expelled or killed, then only those who love Muhammad would be left won't they?
The little fact that his followers were entitled to 4/5th of the war booty and the Arabs known love of raiding certainly helped here.
This does raise the question of just how many of his followers fought for loot rather than Islam.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence for Mecca being a major city pre Islam,

“Mecca was a barren place, and barren places do not make natural halts, and least of all when they are found at a short distance from famously green environments. Why should caravans have made a steep descent to the barren lands of Mecca when they could have stopped at T&#257;’if? Mecca did, of course, have both a well and a sanctuary, but so did T&#257;’if, which had food supplies, too”.(Crone, 1987 page 6-7; Crone-Cook, 1977, page 22)

“One would expect that a major merchant city in Arabia would be mentioned on early maps. Such maps never claimed to show every village and settlement, but certainly sought to place significant and famous cities. Surprising as it may seem, not one map before 900 AD even mentions Mecca. This is 300 years after Mu&#7717;ammad’s death.”
http://nabataea.net/MeccaProblems.html
hazem selawi wrote:
Mohammed was Mad and sad because he was afraid of his people in Mekkah from going to Hell after all they are his people and his family, he wanted them to believe in the creator instead of worshiping idols, they were living in a very harsh environment, where the strong kills the weak, enslaving, some buried their own infant daughters alive and mistreated their women horribly and later on Allah replied To mohammed not to be sad because eventually the victory will be to Islam, infidels in Mekka didn’t want Islam because they were very stubborn and didn’t want to lose their position in the society , because apparently Islam teaches that the most noble of people in the sight of Allah is the most righteous not the most powerful or the richest , thus the whole community of theirs will be changed, they would have to leave worshiping fake idols like Al UZZA and would have to pay Zakkah for the poor and orphans and that was something they surely didn’t want.
You're making two presumptions here.
Firstly that Muhammad was a prophet of God and secondly that the people or Mecca knew he was but still rejected him for personal gain.

Maybe they just thought he was mad as the Quran states.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#944 Nov 24, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
the immigration to Al Madina (Yathreb) was not the first immigration to Muslims, Muslims were persecuted In Mekkah more than you can imagine , there are numerous stories and authentic Hadiths about how muslims were persecuted in Mekkah and their staying was very critical, you can read this story about a new convert to Islam and what happened to him in Mekkah , his name is ammar Yasser, his parents were tortured and killed by Abu Jahl (mohammed’s uncle) in front of him just because they believed in Mohammed prophecy and the creator .http://www.alseraj.net/maktab a/kotob/english/historyofislam /TheCompanionsoftheHolyProphet /Books/Companions/608.htm
another story about bilal bin Rabah the black slave of Umayya bin Khalaf who was tortured and almost killed by his owner http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/4722/vi...
not to mention that Mecca leaders tried to kill Mohammed several times, the infidels of Mekkah certainly didn’t welcome Islam, it could make a slave better than his owner, and FYI Muslims immigrated to al Madina secretly , and before that there were multiple immigrations to Yemmen and al Habasha.
As the Quran never mentions anyone dying in Mecca I'm suspicious of that claim, though the Quran does mention persecution.

How would their treatment compare to people of other religions preaching against Islam in Islamic countries? How do you think such people should be treated?

If someone was to start preaching a strange religion you might ignore him but if your neighbours, friends or even family started to convert to his faith then how would you react?
Thinking

Windsor, UK

#945 Nov 24, 2013
You're trying to sell me sh!t I neither need nor believe in.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you are quoting from a screwed websites by a way or another, most of guys here just Googled contradictions in Quran, violence in Islam , Killing and beating of women in Islam ...!!!
and after that they come here bragging about how they have knowledge about Islam and Quran, some of guys even pretended that they found contradictions by themselves.
you never considered to take a look into what true Muslims actually say, so I am doing your job, you may have the right to call me a plagiarist but you are certainly a very lazy researcher, your arrogance and ego prevents you from spending 5 minutes reading what the other part is saying.

“I'm out hunting”

Since: Jan 10

For your mind and soul

#946 Nov 24, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
Tafsir Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi
"(Men are in charge of women…)[4:34]. Said Muqatil:“This verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed about Sa‘d ibn al-Rabi‘, who was one of the leaders of the Helpers (nuqaba’), and his wife Habibah bint Zayd ibn Abi Zuhayr, both of whom from the Helpers. It happened Sa‘d hit his wife on the face because she rebelled against him. Then her father went with her to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. He said to him:‘I gave him my daughter in marriage and he slapped her’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘Let her have retaliation against her husband’. As she was leaving with her father to execute retaliation, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, called them and said:‘Come back; Gabriel has come to me’, and Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘We wanted something while Allah wanted something else, and that which Allah wants is good’. Retaliation was then suspended”. Sa‘id ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Zahid informed us> Zahir ibn Ahmad> Ahmad ibn al-Husayn ibn Junayd> Ziyad ibn Ayyub> Hushaym> Yunus ibn al-Hasan who reported that a man slapped his wife and she complained about him to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. Her family who went with her said:“O Messenger of Allah! So-and-so has slapped our girl”. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, kept saying:“Retaliation! Retaliation! And there is no other judgement to be held”. But then this verse (Men are in charge of women…) was revealed and the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:“We wanted something and Allah wanted something else”. Abu Bakr al-Harithi informed us> Abu’l-Shaykh al-Hafiz> Abu Yahya al-Razi> Sahl al-‘Askari> ‘Ali ibn Hashim> Isma‘il> al-Hasan who said:“Around the time when the verse on retaliation was revealed amongst the Muslims, a man had slapped his wife. She went to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace and said:‘My husband has slapped me and I want retaliation’. So he said:‘Let there be retaliation’. As he was still dealing with her, Allah, exalted is He, revealed (Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other…). Upon which the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said:‘We wanted something and my Lord wanted something different. O man, take your wife by the hand’”."
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...
And he telling us that strike was a misinterpretation of the arabic word for leave.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#948 Nov 25, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
apparently politics is way bigger than you and I, so just leave it aside, it’s not my favorite subject, But I know one thing for sure which is oil is not just about usage, oil technically controls World Economy.
…
So you have no argument in the face of facts and find it easier to ignore the politics. But wait a moment you then go on to state a political intention – does Islam teach you to be so hypocritical? Honey when you try to shape politics with your religion you give every comment you make a political element. You cannot ignore it in the hope that it will go away

Nope you tried to discredit my information with BS and incredulity. If you can’t access uni records the try google scholar, http://scholar.google.co.uk/ you may even be lucky enough to educate yourself a little.

Perhaps some few Iraqis did take advantage of the situation and steal millions and escape, for the majority of the population that was not an option.

Saddam invaded Iran and I can assure you that crimes were committed then.
Saddam invaded Kuwait and I can assure you that crimes were committed then. Saddam committed genocide against Iraqi Kurds and I can assure you that crimes were committed then.
Saddam tortured and murders thousands of Shiite Muslims, and I can assure you that crimes were committed then.

An international sanction was reached to curb his murdering excesses, just because you don’t like the fact of that is no ones problem but you own.

The school you attended was obviously not too good at teaching history, well certainly not factual history anyway. So, not the next day, you seem to be forgetting a whole raft of time starting with the original slow decline of the Ottoman empire in the 16/17/18 hundreds. Then the end of WW1 when the Ottoman empire was finally broken up in 1918 to the end of WW2 and beyond to 1948 when Palestine was turned into Israel because the Israelis were on the winning side. There is a whole lot of politics there that you claim is not your favourite subject (and it shows). That is not so say that I agree with the situation in Palestine but it is the situation I have to accept.

And for the last sentence you seem to go into waffle mode, I am not telling you anything about my country’s involvement in the UN, I mentioned YOUR county’s involvement in the UN and if that is telling you then so be it.

This is the 21st century and if Arab leaders understand that communication, commerce and affiliations are now world wide comodoties then as you say “apparently politics is way bigger than you and I, so just leave it aside, it’s not my favorite subject” So stop being a hypocrite

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