Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3049 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#907 Nov 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Cop out.
You made a statement that Muslims to not murder civilians yet when such MASS murder is pointed out to you (big time) you shrug you shoulders and say “not me officer must have been someone else with a different religion”
What makes you think that no one calls US soldiers terrorist, in some situations I agree that they act like terrorist, however generally they do not act without UN sanction.
Actually not hundreds of thousands but certainly tens of thousands.
Although not an excuse certainly it is a mitigation that NATO have restricted the barbaric actions of the Taliban for several years in Afghanistan and arguably saved thousands of lives. There is now a democratic (if shakey) government in place and the country is rapidly dragging itself into the 21st century. You also must remember that the action in Afghanistan was primarily the result of the 7/11 attacks in order to dismantle the al-Qaeda terrorist organisation.
The reasons given for both in the US and UK for the intervention in Iraq were pure lies. However I believe the vast majority of Iranian citizens welcomed the US and partners intervention against saddam after he had murdered at least 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis and more than half a million Shiite people and the more than half a million deaths when he invaded Iran and Kuwait. That is an average of 13750 deaths PER DAY that saddam was directly responsible for. Most certainly the Muslims I know (including 3 Iranians) are glad for the intervention.
Both actions were sanctioned by UN resolution. Jordan (your country I believe, correct me if I am wrong). Is a long time member of the UN General Assembly and is currently seeking a term on the UN security council. Note that the Arab League. Jordan, and the UAE are all instrumental in fulfilling the mission in Iraq.
Somalia was a different kettle of fish it was originally an UN humanitarian action monitoring a cease fire. After some time the US took oversight of the mission. Following the broadcast of murdered US peace keeping soldiers being dragged through the streets the US reacted typically. However they did wait for a US resolution this making their actions legal.
Tell me were al qaeda UN sanctioned when they killed thousands in the twin towers?
a 5 years old boy now know that Al Qaida was not responsible of 9/11, America invaded Iraq for the oil not to get rid of Saddam's regime, Iranian-iraqi war is a different case, the war between them Continued for more than 10 years, Saddam murdered at least 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis and more than half a million Shiite people and the more than half a million deaths when he invaded Iran and Kuwait ....!!!! where the hell did you get your numbers from ?!!

if you believe everything you read, its a very big problem.
of course Iranian welcomed the intervention of america in Iraq, Iraq is their pure enemy, they would welcome anything against their enemy, the Iraqi oil now goes for Americans and Iranians.

the american war against Afghanistan started way before 9/11, it started Immediately after the Collapse of soviet union, Afghans , Arab jihadists and Al Qaida did a great effort to drain the soviet union, So Basically Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida were allies to America; that time nobody called them terrorists..!!!

your lovely UN is controlled by the arm industry, International Monetary Fund, Petroleum industry and the benefits of specific people and families, for instance 1 percent of Americans control a third of the country's total wealth.

its always about the money and power, one of the spoils of war against Afghanistan is the Multi billion Dollar Heroin Trade per year, the war against terrorism is a big fat lie and spreading democracy is even a bigger one.

I already told you I am not happy with my country because as you mentioned they betrayed our Muslim brothers and sisters numerous times.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#909 Nov 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
a 5 years old boy now know that Al Qaida was not responsible of 9/11, America invaded Iraq for the oil not to get rid of Saddam's regime, Iranian-iraqi war is a different case, the war between them Continued for more than 10 years, Saddam murdered at least 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis and more than half a million Shiite people and the more than half a million deaths when he invaded Iran and Kuwait ....!!!! where the hell did you get your numbers from ?!!
if you believe everything you read, its a very big problem.
of course Iranian welcomed the intervention of america in Iraq, Iraq is their pure enemy, they would welcome anything against their enemy, the Iraqi oil now goes for Americans and Iranians.
the american war against Afghanistan started way before 9/11, it started Immediately after the Collapse of soviet union, Afghans , Arab jihadists and Al Qaida did a great effort to drain the soviet union, So Basically Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida were allies to America; that time nobody called them terrorists..!!!
your lovely UN is controlled by the arm industry, International Monetary Fund, Petroleum industry and the benefits of specific people and families, for instance 1 percent of Americans control a third of the country's total wealth.
its always about the money and power, one of the spoils of war against Afghanistan is the Multi billion Dollar Heroin Trade per year, the war against terrorism is a big fat lie and spreading democracy is even a bigger one.
I already told you I am not happy with my country because as you mentioned they betrayed our Muslim brothers and sisters numerous times.
9/11 confessions

Al-qaeda confess to Al-Jazeera that they organised 911

http://www.tbsjournal.com/Archives/Fall02/Fou...

"Then with very little fanfare Khalid introduced himself as head of the so-called Al-Qa'ida military committee and Ramzi as coordinator of the 9/11 operation - which they would describe either as "the Holy Tuesday operation" or "the Martyrs' Operation" or the "Manhattan and Washington Raids" using the old Arabic word ghazwa used at the time of the Prophet, to describe raids against enemies which were like modern-day commando operations. "

"According to Ramzi, the council consisted of the four pilots as well as Khalid al-Mihdar and Atta's deputy, Nawaf al-Hazema. According to Khalid, four reconnaissance units were sent to America in pairs or singles over the next five or six months. In the autumn of 2000, Atta entered the US to begin flying lessons in Venice, Florida, along with Marwan al-Shehhi who piloted the United Airlines plane that he crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center. Ziad Al-Jarrah was nearby in another training school and [Hani] Hanjur, already a trained pilot, was undergoing further training in Arizona. Ramzi told me that a decision was taken not to put them all in the same flight school. The idea was to keep contact to a minimum. "

The Al-Jazeera Documentary by Yosri Fouda

The Road to September 11

http://uk.youtube.com/watch...

&fm t=18

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#910 Nov 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
...
The issue of women in Islam, is topic of great misunderstanding due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We should know what Islam teaches, and that is that standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, the basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet (authentic Hadith), his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources . To facilitate our discussion we can discuss the position of women from a spiritual, economic, social, and political standpoint.

From the spiritual aspect, there are numerous points to remember :
-According to the Quran, men and women have the same spirit, there is no superiority in the spiritual sense between men and women.[Noble Quran 4:1, 7:189, 42:11]

-Nowhere in the Quran do we find any trace of any notion of blaming Eve for the first mistake or for eating from the forbidden tree. Nowhere, even though the Quran speaks about Adam, Eve, and the forbidden tree, but in a totally different spirit. The story is narrated in 7:19-27, and it speaks about both of them doing this, both of them are told that both of them disobeyed, both of them discovered the consequences of their disobedience, both of them seek repentance and both of them are forgiven. Nowhere in the Quran does it say woman is to be blamed for the fall of man. Furthermore, when the Quran speaks about the suffering of women during the period of pregnancy and childbirth, nowhere does it connect it with the concept of original sin, because there is no concept of original sin in Islam. The suffering is presented not as a reason to remind woman of the fall of man, but as a reason to adore and love woman or the mother. In the Quran, especially 31:14, 46:15, it makes it quite clear God has commanded upon mankind to be kind to parents and mentions,

"His mother bore him in difficulty or suffering upon suffering." [Noble Quran 31:14, 46:15]

-In terms of moral, spiritual duties, acts of worship, the requirements of men and women are the same, except in some cases when women have certain concessions because of their feminine nature, or their health or the health of their babies.

-The Quran explicitly, in more than one verse, 3:195, 4:124, specified that whoever does good deeds, and is a believer and then specifies "male or female" God will give them an abundant reward.

*In the area of economic rights, we have to remember that in Europe until the 19th century, women did not have the right to own their own property. When they were married, either it would transfer to the husband or she would not be able to dispense of it without permission of her husband. In Britain, perhaps the first country to give women some property rights, laws were passed in the 1860's known as "Married Women Property Act." More than 1300 years earlier, that right was clearly established in Islamic law.

"Whatever men earn, they have a share of that and whatever women earn, they have a share in that." [Noble Quran 4:32]

when it comes to financial security, Islamic law is more tilted in many respects towards women. These are a lot examples as well:

-During the period of engagement, a woman is to be on the receiving side of gifts.

-At the time of marriage, it is the duty of the husband, not the bride's family. He is supposed to pay for a marital gift. The Quran called it a gift, and it is exclusively the right of the woman. She doesn't have to spend it on the household, she doesn't have to give it to her father or anyone else.

-If the woman happened to own any property prior to marriage, she retains that property after marriage. It remains under her control. Also, in most Muslim countries, the woman keeps her own last name, and her own identity.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#911 Nov 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
...
continued ..
-If the woman has any earnings during her marital life, by way of investments of her property or as a result of work, she doesn't have to spend one penny of that income on the household, it is entirely hers.

-The full maintenance and support of a married woman is the entire responsibility of her husband, even though she might be richer than he is. She doesn't have to spend a penny.

-At the time of divorce, there are certain guarantees during the waiting period and even beyond for a woman's support.

-If the widow or divorcee has children, she's entitled to child support.

-as a daughter we find that credit goes to Islam for stopping the barbaric practice of pre-Islamic Arabs of female infanticide. These ignorant people used to bury female daughters alive. The Quran forbade the practice, making it a crime. Surah 81 Additionally, the Quran condemned the chauvinistic attitudes of some people who used to greet the birth of a boy with gladness, but sadness in the case of a girl.

-The duty, not the right, the duty of education, as the Prophet said, is a duty on every Muslim, male and female.

-As far as treatment of daughters is concerned, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Anyone who has two daughters, and did not bury them, did not insult them and brought them up properly, he and I will be like this," holding his two fingers close together. Another version adds, "And also did not favor his sons over daughters." One time the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was seated. A companion was sitting with him. The companion's son came. He kissed his son and put him on his lap. Then his daughter came, and he just sat her by his side. The Prophet told the man, "You did not do Justice," meaning he should have treated the daughter equally, kissed her and put her in his lap also. Indeed, whenever the Prophet's daughter Fatimah came to him, in front of everyone, he stood up, kissed her and let her sit in his favorite place where he'd been sitting.

From the marital standpoint, the Quran clearly indicates in Surahs 30:20 and 42:11 that marriage is not just an inevitable evil, marriage is not somebody getting married to his master or slave, but rather to his partner.

"Among His Signs is this, that he created for you mates from among yourselves, that they may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): Verily in that are signs for those who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]

There are numerous verses in the Quran to the same effect.

Secondly, the approval and consent of the girl to marriage is a prerequisite for the validity of marriage in Islam. She has the right to say yes or no.

Husbands' and wives' duties are mutual responsibilities. They might not be identical duties, but the totality of rights and responsibilities are balanced. The Quran says:

"Women have the same rights (in relation to their husbands) as are expected in all decency from them, while men stand a step above them." [Noble Quran 2:228]

This only specifies the degree of responsibility, not privilege, in man's role as provider, protector, maintainer, and leader of the family. The same Surah speaks about divorce, about consultation between husband and wife, even in the case of divorce. When there are family disputes, first the Quran appeals to reason and the consideration of positive aspects of one's spouse,

"Dwell with your wives in kindness for even if you hate them, you might be hating someone in whom God has placed so much good." [Noble Quran 4:19]

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#912 Nov 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Continued.
If that appeal does not succeed, and problems between the husband and wife continue, there are measures that can be applied. Some of these measures are done privately between husband and wife, These measures are considered an attempt to save a marriage rather than break a family apart. If the situation does not improve, even with the limitation and prevention of excesses, the next step is a family council. One arbiter from his family and one from her family should sit together with the couple and try to resolve the problems.

If a divorce becomes necessary, there are many detailed procedures in Islamic law that really knock down the common notion that divorce in Islam is very easy and that it is the sole right of man. It is not the sole right of man alone and neither is it true that all you have to say is: "I divorce you three times," and that's it. Islam also has laws regarding custody of children. the screwed media make false claim that in all cases custody goes to the father. Custody involves the interest of the child, and laws often favor the mother of young children.

As a sister in faith, in blood, we find the Quran speaks about men and women, that they should cooperate and collaborate in goodness. Surah 9:71 speaks about men and women as supporters and helpers of each other, ordaining the good and forbidding the evil, establishing prayers and doing charity. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) echoed what the Quran said, "I command you to be kind to women." In one of his last commands in his farewell pilgrimage before his death, he kept repeating, "I command you to be kind and considerate to women." In another hadith, he said, "It is only the generous in character who is good to women, and only the evil one who insults them."

On the question of attire, the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet did not say women must adopt a particular dress of a particular country. It only gives basic boundaries, and for a committed Muslim woman, she doesn't follow this simply because her father or husband tells her, but because Allah already stated that as a requirement in the Quran, and was explained through revelation given to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) that this was not to restrict woman, but to provide a virtuous society where sexual attraction is not the main obsession of everyone.

Finally, a few words about political involvement. The verse quoted earlier, Surah 9:71, which speaks about men and women being supporters and helpers of each other was taken by some jurists to mean that it involves also public life. How could they ordain the good and forbid the evil without women being active in the affairs of their society? According to the Quran, I'm not talking about the practices of Muslims, in Surah 60:12, we read about Muslim women making "bayy'ah" to the Prophet. Bayy'ah as an Islamic term is somewhat analogous, to a degree, to what we would call an election, or oath of allegiance. And that was given in his capacity not only as a Prophet, but as a head of state, as he was already the head of state in Medina.

During the rein of 'Umar, women participated in law making.'Umar made a proposal of a certain regulation concerning marriage. A woman in the mosque stood up and said, "'Umar, you can't do that." 'Umar did not tell her, "Shut up, you are a woman, you have nothing to do with politics, etc." He asked, "Why?" She made her argument on the basis of Quran. In front of everybody, he stood up and said, "The woman is right and 'Umar is wrong," and he withdrew his proposal.
In the most authentic collection of Hadith, Hadith Bukhari, a section is devoted to the participation of women, not only in public affairs, but in the battlefield, too, and not only as logistical support. Women carried arms, and when there was great danger to the Muslims, they volunteered to participate even in the battlefield.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#913 Nov 22, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
9/11 confessions
Al-qaeda confess to Al-Jazeera that they organised 911
http://www.tbsjournal.com/Archives/Fall02/Fou...
"Then with very little fanfare Khalid introduced himself as head of the so-called Al-Qa'ida military committee and Ramzi as coordinator of the 9/11 operation - which they would describe either as "the Holy Tuesday operation" or "the Martyrs' Operation" or the "Manhattan and Washington Raids" using the old Arabic word ghazwa used at the time of the Prophet, to describe raids against enemies which were like modern-day commando operations. "
"According to Ramzi, the council consisted of the four pilots as well as Khalid al-Mihdar and Atta's deputy, Nawaf al-Hazema. According to Khalid, four reconnaissance units were sent to America in pairs or singles over the next five or six months. In the autumn of 2000, Atta entered the US to begin flying lessons in Venice, Florida, along with Marwan al-Shehhi who piloted the United Airlines plane that he crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center. Ziad Al-Jarrah was nearby in another training school and [Hani] Hanjur, already a trained pilot, was undergoing further training in Arizona. Ramzi told me that a decision was taken not to put them all in the same flight school. The idea was to keep contact to a minimum. "
The Al-Jazeera Documentary by Yosri Fouda
The Road to September 11
http://uk.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =mC3P-Ai-HtUXX&fmt=18
there are great misunderstanding due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We should know what Islam teaches, and that is the standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, the basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet (authentic Hadith), his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources.

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#914 Nov 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
there are great misunderstanding due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We should know what Islam teaches, and that is the standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, the basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet (authentic Hadith), his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources.
A free book for you, a "beautified" version of Muhammad's history I know you were looking for (MUHAMMAD his life based on the earliest sources - by Martin Lings), and this is what it records:

Page 232:

As to the other women and children, they were divided, together with the property, amongst the men who had taken part in the siege. Many of these captives were ransomed by the Bani Nadir at Khaybar, As part of his share the Prophet had chosen Rayhanah, the daughter of Zayd, a Nadirite, who had married her to a man of Qurayzah, She was a woman of great beauty and she remained the Prophet's slave until she died some five years later. At first he put her in the care of his aunt Salma, in whose house Rifa'ah had already taken refuge. Rayhanah herself was averse to entering Islam, but Rifa'ah, and his kinsmen of the Bani Hadl spoke to her about the new religion and it was not long before one of the three young converts, Tha'labah by name, came to the Prophet and told him that Rayhanah had entered Islam, whereupon he greatly rejoiced. When it became clear that she was not pregnant, he went to her and offered to set her free and to make her his wife. But she said: "0 Messenger of God, leave me in thy power; that will be easier for me and for thee."

http://muqith.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/muh...

What your prophet did after beheading over 700 surrendared jews?
Thinking

Windsor, UK

#915 Nov 22, 2013
Do you have an issue with the word "distortion"?

When you plagiarised the text below without quoting your sources, it appears that you removed the words "and distortion"

If someone did that for you, be honest for once and quote that source instead.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text> [truncated due to size]
The issue of women in Islam, is topic of great misunderstanding due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We should know what Islam teaches, and that is that standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, the basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet (authentic Hadith), his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources . To facilitate our discussion we can discuss the position of women from a spiritual, economic, social, and political standpoint.
From the spiritual aspect, there are numerous points to remember :
-According to the Quran, men and women have the same spirit, there is no superiority in the spiritual sense between men and women.[Noble Quran 4:1, 7:189, 42:11]
-Nowhere in the Quran do we find any trace of any notion of blaming Eve for the first mistake or for eating from the forbidden tree. Nowhere, even though the Quran speaks about Adam, Eve, and the forbidden tree, but in a totally different spirit. The story is narrated in 7:19-27, and it speaks about both of them doing this, both of them are told that both of them disobeyed, both of them discovered the consequences of their disobedience, both of them seek repentance and both of them are forgiven. Nowhere in the Quran does it say woman is to be blamed for the fall of man. Furthermore, when the Quran speaks about the suffering of women during the period of pregnancy and childbirth, nowhere does it connect it with the concept of original sin, because there is no concept of original sin in Islam. The suffering is presented not as a reason to remind woman of the fall of man, but as a reason to adore and love woman or the mother. In the Quran, especially 31:14, 46:15, it makes it quite clear God has commanded upon mankind to be kind to parents and mentions,
"His mother bore him in difficulty or suffering upon suffering." [Noble Quran 31:14, 46:15]
-In terms of moral, spiritual duties, acts of worship, the requirements of men and women are the same, except in some cases when women have certain concessions because of their feminine nature, or their health or the health of their babies.
-The Quran explicitly, in more than one verse, 3:195, 4:124, specified that whoever does good deeds, and is a believer and then specifies "male or female" God will give them an abundant reward.
*In the area of economic rights, we have to remember that in Europe until the 19th century, women did not have the right to own their own property. When they were married, either it would transfer to the husband or she would not be able to dispense of it without permission of her husband. In Britain, perhaps the first country to give women some property rights, laws were passed in the 1860's known as "Married Women Property Act." More than 1300 years earlier, that right was clearly established in Islamic law.
"Whatever men earn, they have a share of that and whatever women earn, they have a share in that." [Noble Quran 4:32]
when it comes to financial security, Islamic law is more tilted in many respects towards women. These are a lot examples as well:
-During the period of engagement, a woman is to be on the receiving side of gifts.
-At the time of marriage, it is the duty of the husband, not the bride's family. He is supposed to pay for a marital gift. The Quran called it a gift, and it is exclusively the right of the woman. She doesn't have to spend it on the household, she doesn't have to give it to her father or anyone else.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#916 Nov 22, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Do you have an issue with the word "distortion"?
When you plagiarised the text below without quoting your sources, it appears that you removed the words "and distortion"
If someone did that for you, be honest for once and quote that source instead.
<quoted text>
you Have a point, But its not that easy to know everything in Islam, so why not quoting from a trusted websites which follow the actual and correct method and criteria of Islamic teachings.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#917 Nov 22, 2013
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
A free book for you, a "beautified" version of Muhammad's history I know you were looking for (MUHAMMAD his life based on the earliest sources - by Martin Lings), and this is what it records:
Page 232:
As to the other women and children, they were divided, together with the property, amongst the men who had taken part in the siege. Many of these captives were ransomed by the Bani Nadir at Khaybar, As part of his share the Prophet had chosen Rayhanah, the daughter of Zayd, a Nadirite, who had married her to a man of Qurayzah, She was a woman of great beauty and she remained the Prophet's slave until she died some five years later. At first he put her in the care of his aunt Salma, in whose house Rifa'ah had already taken refuge. Rayhanah herself was averse to entering Islam, but Rifa'ah, and his kinsmen of the Bani Hadl spoke to her about the new religion and it was not long before one of the three young converts, Tha'labah by name, came to the Prophet and told him that Rayhanah had entered Islam, whereupon he greatly rejoiced. When it became clear that she was not pregnant, he went to her and offered to set her free and to make her his wife. But she said: "0 Messenger of God, leave me in thy power; that will be easier for me and for thee."
http://muqith.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/muh...
What your prophet did after beheading over 700 surrendared jews?
I know the story, all the adult men were killed , and they deserved it, this Jewish tribe broke the oath with prophet Mohammed and Muslims, they secretly united with other tribes and infidels against muslims.
Banu qurayza were supposed to protect a specific location of Al Madina (Yathreb) but they chose to betray Muslims in order to get rid of them all and to eliminate the true message of god Just like they did to Christianity, they tried to kill Jesus and after that manipulated the Bible and added to it nonsense fabrications.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#918 Nov 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I know the story, all the adult men were killed , and they deserved it, this Jewish tribe broke the oath with prophet Mohammed and Muslims, they secretly united with other tribes and infidels against muslims.
Banu qurayza were supposed to protect a specific location of Al Madina (Yathreb) but they chose to betray Muslims in order to get rid of them all and to eliminate the true message of god Just like they did to Christianity, they tried to kill Jesus and after that manipulated the Bible and added to it nonsense fabrications.
The person who broke the oath was Muhammad himself when he started to attack Meccan caravans. By doing that he broke every peace treaty he had signed with any of the tribes.
There was no reason why any of them should have supported him.

And here we have the problem. Your entire arguments are based on the presumption that Muhammad actually was a prophet but if he wasn't then your entire argument falls apart.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#919 Nov 22, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
The person who broke the oath was Muhammad himself when he started to attack Meccan caravans. By doing that he broke every peace treaty he had signed with any of the tribes.
There was no reason why any of them should have supported him.
And here we have the problem. Your entire arguments are based on the presumption that Muhammad actually was a prophet but if he wasn't then your entire argument falls apart.
Meccan Caravans is a different case and a different Ghazwa and happened years before Sulh al Hudaybiya, Besides we were talking about the oath between Madina people (Yathreb), there was a Constitution between the people of Madina to organize Rights and duties,it seems like you got confused.

Besides god gave permission to muslims to attack the Meccan caravans because muslims left all their properties in MeKkah and these properties were stolen by the people of Quraysh, some of them were even forced by Quraysh to leave their own clothes, anyhow after the Immigration to Yathreb (lately called al Madina) Prophet Mohammed established a fraternity among the Muslims of Mecca and those of Madina whereunder each migrant was paired with an Ansar of the corresponding status. The brotherhood thus established was unique in the annals of mankind.

for further info about the early life in Madina you can check this article http://www.quranmalayalam.com/program/khalifa...

anyways the muslims failed to catch the Meccan Caravans and after that men of Quraysh prepared a big army and headed to Yathreb to eliminate and get rid of Muslims and Islam, Mecca at that time was one of the richest and most powerful cities in Arabia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr

Since: Apr 12

Concord, CA

#920 Nov 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
I know the story, all the adult men were killed , and they deserved it, this Jewish tribe broke the oath with prophet Mohammed and Muslims, they secretly united with other tribes and infidels against muslims.
Banu qurayza were supposed to protect a specific location of Al Madina (Yathreb) but they chose to betray Muslims in order to get rid of them all and to eliminate the true message of god Just like they did to Christianity, they tried to kill Jesus and after that manipulated the Bible and added to it nonsense fabrications.
If I wanted to discuss the "all the adult men were killed", I would have pasted text from previous pages...(not that I justify beheading all the surrendared men - and some of them had to die for being nothing other than "post-puberty", if you know the story from Tabari how they decide). This is a genocidal war crime, and Muhammad is in hell.

So, did you not have problem with how the widows and children were treated before you switch topic to Bible "fabrication"? Do you approve of Muhammad's raping slave girl who just lost their husbands?

Do you want to discuss this old thread?

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TJF...

Do you approve of this statement from Muhammad?

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TJF...

Muslim Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

Book 019, Number 4322:
It is narrated by Sa'b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids. He said: They are from them.

Book 019, Number 4323:
Sa'b b. Jaththama has narrated that the Prophet (may peace be upon him) asked: What about the children of polytheists killed by the cavalry during the night raid? He said: They are from them.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/h...

Take your time, as I am taking a break.

“I'm out hunting”

Since: Jan 10

For your mind and soul

#921 Nov 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, it;’s not all quran. As you know the babble book and tanakh also teach intolerance.
I know. They all are fruit from the same poisoned tree.

“I'm out hunting”

Since: Jan 10

For your mind and soul

#922 Nov 22, 2013
Thinking wrote:
If al qaeeda is so successful why do they still use VHS?
Is optical disc haram?
<quoted text>
This post is funny and on point.

“I'm out hunting”

Since: Jan 10

For your mind and soul

#923 Nov 22, 2013
Islam teaches that it is okay for husbands to hit their wives.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue of women in Islam, is topic of great misunderstanding due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We should know what Islam teaches, and that is that standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, the basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet (authentic Hadith), his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources . To facilitate our discussion we can discuss the position of women from a spiritual, economic, social, and political standpoint.
From the spiritual aspect, there are numerous points to remember :
-According to the Quran, men and women have the same spirit, there is no superiority in the spiritual sense between men and women.[Noble Quran 4:1, 7:189, 42:11]
-Nowhere in the Quran do we find any trace of any notion of blaming Eve for the first mistake or for eating from the forbidden tree. Nowhere, even though the Quran speaks about Adam, Eve, and the forbidden tree, but in a totally different spirit. The story is narrated in 7:19-27, and it speaks about both of them doing this, both of them are told that both of them disobeyed, both of them discovered the consequences of their disobedience, both of them seek repentance and both of them are forgiven. Nowhere in the Quran does it say woman is to be blamed for the fall of man. Furthermore, when the Quran speaks about the suffering of women during the period of pregnancy and childbirth, nowhere does it connect it with the concept of original sin, because there is no concept of original sin in Islam. The suffering is presented not as a reason to remind woman of the fall of man, but as a reason to adore and love woman or the mother. In the Quran, especially 31:14, 46:15, it makes it quite clear God has commanded upon mankind to be kind to parents and mentions,
"His mother bore him in difficulty or suffering upon suffering." [Noble Quran 31:14, 46:15]
-In terms of moral, spiritual duties, acts of worship, the requirements of men and women are the same, except in some cases when women have certain concessions because of their feminine nature, or their health or the health of their babies.
-The Quran explicitly, in more than one verse, 3:195, 4:124, specified that whoever does good deeds, and is a believer and then specifies "male or female" God will give them an abundant reward.
*In the area of economic rights, we have to remember that in Europe until the 19th century, women did not have the right to own their own property. When they were married, either it would transfer to the husband or she would not be able to dispense of it without permission of her husband. In Britain, perhaps the first country to give women some property rights, laws were passed in the 1860's known as "Married Women Property Act." More than 1300 years earlier, that right was clearly established in Islamic law.
"Whatever men earn, they have a share of that and whatever women earn, they have a share in that." [Noble Quran 4:32]
when it comes to financial security, Islamic law is more tilted in many respects towards women. These are a lot examples as well:
-During the period of engagement, a woman is to be on the receiving side of gifts.
-At the time of marriage, it is the duty of the husband, not the bride's family. He is supposed to pay for a marital gift. The Quran called it a gift, and it is exclusively the right of the woman. She doesn't have to spend it on the household, she doesn't have to give it to her father or anyone else.
-If the woman happened to own any property prior to marriage, she retains that property after marriage. It remains under her control. Also, in most Muslim countries, the woman keeps her own last name, and her own identity.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#924 Nov 23, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Meccan Caravans is a different case and a different Ghazwa and happened years before Sulh al Hudaybiya, Besides we were talking about the oath between Madina people (Yathreb), there was a Constitution between the people of Madina to organize Rights and duties,it seems like you got confused.
Muhammad had arrived in Medina as a refugee. He repaid their kindness by starting a war against Mecca without their permission. In doing so he broke every treaty he had signed with anyone.
The Jewish tribes especially had no reason to back him.
hazem selawi wrote:
Besides god gave permission to muslims to attack the Meccan caravans because muslims left all their properties in MeKkah and these properties were stolen by the people of Quraysh, some of them were even forced by Quraysh to leave their own clothes,
If a fake preacher had tried to start a cult in Mecca, would you have considered the Meccan's reaction too harsh or too lenient?
They didn't believe he was a prophet but rather that he was mad (it says so in the Quran).

If I were to go into a Muslim country and preach against Islam I would be quickly arrested and possibly sentenced to death.
So by Islam's own standards Muhammad and his followers got of very lightly.
hazem selawi wrote:
anyhow after the Immigration to Yathreb (lately called al Madina) Prophet Mohammed established a fraternity among the Muslims of Mecca and those of Madina whereunder each migrant was paired with an Ansar of the corresponding status. The brotherhood thus established was unique in the annals of mankind.
for further info about the early life in Madina you can check this article http://www.quranmalayalam.com/program/khalifa...
So there was still plenty of contact between the Muslims of Mecca and Medina. That hardly suggest they were being heavily persecuted.
hazem selawi wrote:
anyways the muslims failed to catch the Meccan Caravans and after that men of Quraysh prepared a big army and headed to Yathreb to eliminate and get rid of Muslims and Islam, Mecca at that time was one of the richest and most powerful cities in Arabia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr
Wrong!
The Meccan's sent out an army of volunteers to protect the caravan.
When they learnt the caravan had escaped they had a choice. Either they could return home and wait for the next caravan to be attacked or they could try and defeat Muhammad's army there and then.
Most (but not all) agreed to continue to Badr to fight.
They could not have continued on to Yathreb as they didn't have enough men to attack a city.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#925 Nov 23, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
a 5 years old boy now know that Al Qaida was not responsible of 9/11, America invaded Iraq for the oil not to get rid of Saddam's regime, Iranian-iraqi war is a different case, the war between them Continued for more than 10 years, Saddam murdered at least 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis and more than half a million Shiite people and the more than half a million deaths when he invaded Iran and Kuwait ....!!!! where the hell did you get your numbers from ?!!

.
Your opinion is your opinion and you opinion is particularly biased and based on lies designed to make you own terrorists feel better and help recruitment of willing idiots who believe the promise of 72 virgins.

WHO THE FOOK was responsible for flying planes into the twin towers because I know I was not.

Al-Jazeera interviews and later interrogations in the US of al-Qaeda members Ramzi bin al-Shibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed show that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the instigator and prime organizer of the attacks. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was an al-Qaeda member with access to their leaders.
Al-Qaeda's spokesman, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, sent a video to al Jazeera in October 2001 stating :- The Americans should know that the storm of plane attacks will not abate, with God's permission. There are thousands of the Islamic nations' youths who are eager to die just as the Americans are eager to live
So where was this 5 year old boy educated, the local al-qaeda sponsored terrorists madrasa?

NATO intervened in Iraq for various stated reasons, many of which were proven to be lies, however oil comes pretty low down that list and is used as an excuse by your fellow America haters. You may have noticed that the US has considerable quantities of oil and gas of it’s own to the extent that both are as cheap as dishwater compared to European countries. Arabian oil accounts for less than 12% of US oil usage. So the invasion for oil excuse does not wash with people who are able to think for themselves, I can see that thinking for yourself would be a major problem for you.

Honey you are once again mocking my intelligence, I got those figures from independent sources and I used the lower figures available. i.e. several academic/university statistical sources and UN data.

Sorry, I apologise for my gaf there, I meant Iraqi, I have dyslexia and did not notice the error. The colleges I mentioned are Iraqi, not Iranian. The sentence should have read - Most certainly the Muslims I know (including 3 Iraqis) are glad for the intervention.

Arab jihadists in Afghanistan spent great effort removing the soviet invaders with US backing and help. After they had succeeded in that they turned the weapons supplied by the west on their western allies. Such nice and trustworthy people those Taliban.

My lovely UN is controlled partly by your government. You may not like this but it is FACT. Grow a set of balls and accept that fact like a man. However do you have any evidence that the UN is controlled by the arms industry, IMF and Petroleum industry, or are you just repeating a slander?

Bollocks, are you saying that the world is not a safer place because bin Laden and his buddies have had their tail shaved?. Unlike christian terrorist, I have never been personally harmed by muslim terrorist so I really have no axe to grind and I am not really one for US rhetoric but you want to come and fook with the west then don’t be surprised if some westerner rams a huge rocket up your fat and sagging a$$.

What you are happy with is not my problem, I have already advised an alternative, just because you are too yellow bellied to move to Afghanistan and join your murdering misogynistic and brothers is not my problem.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#926 Nov 23, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue of women in Islam, is topic of great misunderstanding due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We should know what Islam teaches, and that is that standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, the basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet (authentic Hadith), his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources . To facilitate our discussion we can discuss the position of women from a spiritual, economic, social, and political standpoint.
From the spiritual aspect, there are numerous points to remember :
No it is not misunderstood, however you choose to interpret in the way you doo and ignore the FACTS. The evidence I provided was taken from good Muslim sources and the Quran. You can continue to protest as much as you like but all the means is that you are arguing with your own god book

There can be NO ARGUMENT, NO DENIAL that the Sahih International version of the quran verse 4:34
reads
“Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance -[first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.”

Other English translations are similar in content
Pickthall: Men are in charge of women…
Arberry: Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another…

So what is happening is like good funnymentalists both christian and Islamic your either your deliberate blindness or your deliberate ignorance you are misrepresenting your book with

And you have only addressed ONE of my points and that was a pretty poor effort and excuse on your part. You are so blinded by your book that you are not willing to accept the facts that stare you in the face. That my dear is called deliberate ignorance.

Not continued because there is no need, Unlike you I do not get off on excusing the misogyny of your faith by excusing the wording of the quran.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#927 Nov 23, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
I know. They all are fruit from the same poisoned tree.
So true

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