Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3146 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3128 May 4, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realise that anything in brackets has been added by the translator don't you?
The Quran never gives a clear time line for the prophets so it's possible Muhammad didn't know j.
which version of Mary story would you be comfortable in explaining to your own daughter, mother or sister:

the Bible version
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

the Quran version
"She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is."

I think when one reads the Bible and precisely words like The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, you will instantly get an image in your head and unfortunately its not a nice image, think about it, is it logical for a creator to choose such words "upon thee" and "overshadow thee' in describing a miraculous birth and specially to a devout woman like Mary.

the Quran answer is more decent, it simply says " He only says to it, Be, and it is."

maybe when we finish talking about this part of Jesus story we can proceed to the secnd part which is the first miracle of Jesus (PBUH) and the first reaction of people when they saw him.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3129 May 4, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I've seen that hadith but it raises the question of why the Muslim narrator didn't know Mary wasn't Aaron's sister? Obviously no one had explained this too him.
This raises for me the question as to whether Muhammad didn't know this himself but then had to quickly make up an excuse.
Even if there was no such hadith, we are quite certain that Mary was at the time of Zechariah so it will be illogical to claim that Mary was the actual sister of Moses and his brother Harun.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3130 May 4, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
which version of Mary story would you be comfortable in explaining to your own daughter, mother or sister:
the Bible version
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
the Quran version
"She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is."
I think when one reads the Bible and precisely words like The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, you will instantly get an image in your head and unfortunately its not a nice image, think about it, is it logical for a creator to choose such words "upon thee" and "overshadow thee' in describing a miraculous birth and specially to a devout woman like Mary.
the Quran answer is more decent, it simply says " He only says to it, Be, and it is."
maybe when we finish talking about this part of Jesus story we can proceed to the secnd part which is the first miracle of Jesus (PBUH) and the first reaction of people when they saw him.
Don't forget these verses:

"And (remember) she who guarded her chastity. We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples (21:91).

...And We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit. She testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)" (66:12).

I don't see the Bibles version as being any more sexual than these.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3131 May 4, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't forget these verses:
"And (remember) she who guarded her chastity. We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples (21:91).
...And We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit. She testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)" (66:12).
I don't see the Bibles version as being any more sexual than these.
you cannot compare "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee " to we breathed into her of our spirit " not to mention that allah used the same statement for Adam
".........Then he made him complete and breathed into him of His spirit and made for you ears and eyes and heart." (Qur'an 32:7-9)

breathed into him of his spirit, this verse confirms that the description of the miraculous birth of Jesus is far away from being sexual, hence it was also used to describe the the gradual process of man's physical development.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3132 May 4, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you cannot compare "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee " to we breathed into her of our spirit " not to mention that allah used the same statement for Adam
".........Then he made him complete and breathed into him of His spirit and made for you ears and eyes and heart." (Qur'an 32:7-9)
breathed into him of his spirit, this verse confirms that the description of the miraculous birth of Jesus is far away from being sexual, hence it was also used to describe the the gradual process of man's physical development.
Sure it's not sexual?

21:91 Transliteration: Waallatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feeha min roohina wajaAAalnaha waibnaha ayatan lilAAalameena

Fa-Ra-Jiim = To open, separate, cleave, split, enlarge, part, let a space between, make a room, comfort anything in, dispel cares. An opening, intervening space [gap or breach] between two things. Ex: Parting hind legs or intervening spaces between fingers.
He opened, made room, ample space.
Furijat - Cloven, split, rent, opened.
Farjun (Pl. Furuj)- Pudenda (sex organ); chastity, space between legs (of horse or mare), part/s of a person (male/female) indecent to expose, external portions of the organs of generation [of a male/female]. Also the posterior pudendum because it is a place of opening, of between the legs.

faraja vb.(1) perf. pass. 77:9

farj n.m.(pl. furuj) 21:91, 23:5, 24:30, 24:31, 33:35, 50:6, 66:12, 70:29
http://www.studyquran.co.uk/6_FA.htm

Tafsir al-Jalalayn
“And, mention Mary, the one who guarded her virginity,[the one who] preserved it from being taken, so We breathed into her of Our spirit, namely, Gabriel, when he breathed into the opening of her garment and she conceived Jesus. And We made her and her son a sign for all the worlds, that is,[for] mankind, jinn and angels, because she bore him without [having] a male [partner].”
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3133 May 4, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it's not sexual?
21:91 Transliteration: Waallatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feeha min roohina wajaAAalnaha waibnaha ayatan lilAAalameena
Fa-Ra-Jiim = To open, separate, cleave, split, enlarge, part, let a space between, make a room, comfort anything in, dispel cares. An opening, intervening space [gap or breach] between two things. Ex: Parting hind legs or intervening spaces between fingers.
He opened, made room, ample space.
Furijat - Cloven, split, rent, opened.
Farjun (Pl. Furuj)- Pudenda (sex organ); chastity, space between legs (of horse or mare), part/s of a person (male/female) indecent to expose, external portions of the organs of generation [of a male/female]. Also the posterior pudendum because it is a place of opening, of between the legs.
faraja vb.(1) perf. pass. 77:9
farj n.m.(pl. furuj) 21:91, 23:5, 24:30, 24:31, 33:35, 50:6, 66:12, 70:29
http://www.studyquran.co.uk/6_FA.htm
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
“And, mention Mary, the one who guarded her virginity,[the one who] preserved it from being taken, so We breathed into her of Our spirit, namely, Gabriel, when he breathed into the opening of her garment and she conceived Jesus. And We made her and her son a sign for all the worlds, that is,[for] mankind, jinn and angels, because she bore him without [having] a male [partner].”
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...
Hahaha that's interesting "Igor", I can see you Arabic has improved, have you been practicing ??!!

but I think the answer to your questions is already in your response, I think we can both agree that the word Furuj the plural of FARJ is mentioned in numerous verses such as : 21:91, 23:5, 24:30, 24:31, 33:35, 50:6, 66:12, 70:29

so ahsanat farjaha (mary) according to Islam and the philosophy of the Quran is a compliment since the Quran highly insists and orders the believers to guard their virginity and to never perfrom ZENA (adultery), Remember the adulterous get 100 lashes in public, anyways my point is that the Quran is actually praising Mary, besides the verse is not saying
"Mary, the one who guarded her virginity and we breathed from our spirit into her farj ...!!!

it is just like saying she is innocent and Jesus did not have a father, it is a miracle because i can just say to anything be and it is.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3134 May 4, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahaha that's interesting "Igor", I can see you Arabic has improved, have you been practicing ??!!
but I think the answer to your questions is already in your response, I think we can both agree that the word Furuj the plural of FARJ is mentioned in numerous verses such as : 21:91, 23:5, 24:30, 24:31, 33:35, 50:6, 66:12, 70:29
so ahsanat farjaha (mary) according to Islam and the philosophy of the Quran is a compliment since the Quran highly insists and orders the believers to guard their virginity and to never perfrom ZENA (adultery), Remember the adulterous get 100 lashes in public, anyways my point is that the Quran is actually praising Mary, besides the verse is not saying
"Mary, the one who guarded her virginity and we breathed from our spirit into her farj ...!!!
it is just like saying she is innocent and Jesus did not have a father, it is a miracle because i can just say to anything be and it is.
If Furui is plural then it can't mean virginity (how many virginities did she have?) It can mean 'Private parts' which is a sexual reference.

Anyway you're still reading something into the Bibles verses that isn't really there (why am I defending the Bible?)

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3135 May 4, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
If Furui is plural then it can't mean virginity (how many virginities did she have?) It can mean 'Private parts' which is a sexual reference.
Anyway you're still reading something into the Bibles verses that isn't really there (why am I defending the Bible?)
but the verse says ahsanat farjahaaa not ahsanat furuj, remember the word Wajadaha ??

"ha" here refers to Mary, and I don't know why you are defending the Bible ..!! have you seen Jesus recently in a dream ??

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3136 May 4, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
but the verse says ahsanat farjahaaa not ahsanat furuj, remember the word Wajadaha ??
"ha" here refers to Mary, and I don't know why you are defending the Bible ..!! have you seen Jesus recently in a dream ??
You posted "Furuj the plural of FARJ is mentioned in numerous verses such as : 21:91..."

Farjahaaa is still a reference to her private parts which seems a bit crude for a holy book.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3137 May 4, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
You posted "Furuj the plural of FARJ is mentioned in numerous verses such as : 21:91..."
Farjahaaa is still a reference to her private parts which seems a bit crude for a holy book.
I can assure that the term Farj, furuj or whatever according to the Quran language and way of preaching is not crude at all, lets just take a look at a very important chapter in the Quran, its called the chapter of believers (Surat Al-Mu'min&#363;n)

Certainly will the believers have succeeded, They who are during their prayer humbly submissive, And they who turn away from ill speech, And they who are observant of zakah, And they who guard their private parts Except from their wives .....

23:1-6

you can easily notice that the first verses of this chapter is basically congratulating those believers who do all the good deeds and finally who guard their private parts (furuj), can you imagine that Even Zakat which is one of the 5 pillars of Islam is mentioned side by side to guarding virginity but of course except from the wives.

so the Quran is simply telling us that Mary was one of the believers, by Saying ahsanat farjaha guarded her virginity or private parts the quran confirms that Mary was devout, a good woman and a true believer.

if the Quran used such a term Ahsanat farjaha only on Mary I would agree with you, but taking in consideration other locations of using the same words prove to us that the Quran is just making an innocent point.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3138 May 5, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I can assure that the term Farj, furuj or whatever according to the Quran language and way of preaching is not crude at all, lets just take a look at a very important chapter in the Quran, its called the chapter of believers (Surat Al-Mu'min&#363;n)
Certainly will the believers have succeeded, They who are during their prayer humbly submissive, And they who turn away from ill speech, And they who are observant of zakah, And they who guard their private parts Except from their wives .....
23:1-6
you can easily notice that the first verses of this chapter is basically congratulating those believers who do all the good deeds and finally who guard their private parts (furuj), can you imagine that Even Zakat which is one of the 5 pillars of Islam is mentioned side by side to guarding virginity but of course except from the wives.
so the Quran is simply telling us that Mary was one of the believers, by Saying ahsanat farjaha guarded her virginity or private parts the quran confirms that Mary was devout, a good woman and a true believer.
if the Quran used such a term Ahsanat farjaha only on Mary I would agree with you, but taking in consideration other locations of using the same words prove to us that the Quran is just making an innocent point.
And a man's private parts are his what?
It still sounds crude to me. It's still no better than the Bibles verse.

You missed off the last part of that verse.

21:6 Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3139 May 5, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if there was no such hadith, we are quite certain that Mary was at the time of Zechariah so it will be illogical to claim that Mary was the actual sister of Moses and his brother Harun.
But did Muhammad know that?

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3142 May 5, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
But did Muhammad know that?
of course he did, because it the Quran states that Mary lived at the time of prophet Zechariah, and yes regarding the hadith you brought up those christians probably converted to Islam, because it is universally accepted that most if not all the people of middle east were christians but look at them now, they now hardly make 5% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_...

you may say something like; but Mohammed forced them to convert to Islam and I'll simply prove to you from Quran and Sunnah that there is no compulsion in religion..!!

you may again claim that christians converted to Islam only not to pay Jizzyah, and I will again prove to you that poor christians are not supposed to pay Jizzyah in the first place and if they were rich they would still have to pay zakkah, Islam simply covers every aspect of life in a way that guarantees justice, mercy and dignity not only to humans but also to the environment, animals and even insects.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3143 May 5, 2014
sorry it seems an error occurred , my posts are being repeated

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3144 May 6, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
of course he did, because it the Quran states that Mary lived at the time of prophet Zechariah, and yes regarding the hadith you brought up those christians probably converted to Islam, because it is universally accepted that most if not all the people of middle east were christians but look at them now, they now hardly make 5% of the population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_...
No I meant did Muhammad know Moses and Jesus lived hundreds of years apart or did he just get the stories confused?
Mujahid

Prairie Village, KS

#3145 May 6, 2014
No-Doubt wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that an excuse
Thomas Jefferson read the Noble Quran before he composed the US Constitution.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3146 May 6, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
No I meant did Muhammad know Moses and Jesus lived hundreds of years apart or did he just get the stories confused?
I know exactly what you meant, but according to your logic Mohammed is the author of the Quran and that book clearly states that prophet Zechariah have been the guardian of Mary so even if we assumed that Mohammed wrote that book your argument will fail. hence the Quran with no doubt doesn't imply that prophet Moses and prophet Jesus lived at the same time, it wouldn't make sense because Jesus came to confirm the Torah.

And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

Christians got confused because their bible teaches that Moses had a sister and that sister's name was Miriam, she even wrote a poem when the Jews succeeded to pass the red sea.

20 Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing.21 Miriam sang to them:
“Sing to the Lord,
for he is highly exalted.
Both horse and driver
he has hurled into the sea.”

Miriam the sister of Moses is not mentioned in the Quran maybe that's why Christians got confused.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#3147 May 6, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot say that I met a polygamist either, and of course the husband cannot be entirely equal because you know that sometimes one cannot control his feelings, but a Muslim polygamist should treat all of his wives equally, for instance you cannot buy a specific wife a luxurious house and throw others in a small flat, it is also prohibited to spend more time with some wife &#1608; because the Quran clearly says "....... But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one ...... " 4:3
It's not all that different than any other situation where several love one, but one has different levels of caring for the several, like with a parent favoring one child over the others. It causes resentment in the less favored. If I was forced to share a husband I was enamored with,... very nasty things would start happening very quickly.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#3148 May 21, 2014
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>It's not all that different than any other situation where several love one, but one has different levels of caring for the several, like with a parent favoring one child over the others. It causes resentment in the less favored. If I was forced to share a husband I was enamored with,... very nasty things would start happening very quickly.
No need to share a husband, with you around nasty things are automatic, is it that you were the rejected sibling of which you speak and so harbour intense resentment against all who consider you second rate?
insaankhan

Delhi, India

#3149 Feb 28, 2015
He is created from a gushing fluid.(quran 86:6)
(fluid that gushes from the seminal vesicles)

Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.(Quran 86:7)

<all that forms the seminal fluid (semen) is formed (emerged) from the gland located in between the backbone and ribs>

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News People's forum - Get off the fence of religious... (May '10) 55 min blacklagoon 3 64
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 1 hr 15th Dalai Lama 79,997
News Atheist inmate wins right to practice his faith... (Aug '15) 9 hr old_moose 94
How To Get To Heaven When You Die (Jan '17) 9 hr Eagle 12 - 104
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) Fri River Tam 32,582
News Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) Sep 20 The pope 258,485
News Atheist billboards to mock Romney, Obama faith (Aug '12) Sep 15 superwilly 47
More from around the web