Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3146 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3083 Apr 9, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus and Jonah's stories don't have to be exactly the same to be similar. Three days in a whale verses three days in hell is close enough for most people.
its not the same story and certainly not similar, because according to this logic Jesus would have spent 3 days and 3 nights in the grave (according to historians it was some sort of a room rather than a grave) and also 3 days and 3 nights in hell ..!! but Jonah only spent 3 days and 3 nights in a whale and stayed alive.

Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know it's the Quran's version that's accurate?
The most plausible story is that Jesus just died like everyone else who was crucified.
I am not basing my argument on the Quran, I am basing it on the Bible itself, and Crucifixion doesn't necessarily kills.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
4.158: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
So Jesus was raised up to Allah still alive.
that's why Jesus is coming back, because he never died and he should die like everyone else.
not to mention that Jesus name was mentioned 25 times in the Quran and Mohammed's name was only mentioned 5 times, doesn't that tell you something ??
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Why should anyone believe Jesus survived when they were all fooled into thinking he had died?
Why weren't the disciples told he survived? Who was?
What actually happened? Did someone else die or did Jesus just survive the crucifixion?
Why was Jesus being crucified anyway?
There's a big story missing here.
Sorry but I just don't buy this story.
the disciples weren't there and didn't watch the crucifixion and even if they did Jesus met them after he walked out alive from the grave and told them the whole story, the problem with the gospels is that we don't have any eye witness or any kind of proof that Jesus raised from death, As for Paul, it is universally accepted that he was not a disciple of Jesus, and Mark is traditionally said to be a disciple of Peter and hence not himself a disciple of Jesus, thus gospels of Mark and Paul shouldn't be entirely accepted as the truth of what really happened, not to mention that we don't have any kind of proof that the disciples of Jesus actually worshiped him, its a dilemma.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#3084 Apr 10, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Sister ChristineM, no matter how much time we spend talking and arguing, you obviously will never be able to change my mind over anything, I have a strong faith and apparently I won't convince you either.
the problem with you is that you are not looking for the truth, I Hope your heart isn't sealed, if your heart was sealed you'll never be able to find the right path.
"As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them."
you have to understand that it doesn't matter what I tell you, you'll never be convinced until Allah choose to guide you and as long as you are not looking for Allah you will always stay as you are.
Sorry for the delay, I had more pressing things to do.

I have no intention of changing your mind, only of showing you alternatives to goddunit wiv magic. Changing your mind is something that only you can allow and you are not ready for that.

Sorry buddy, the problem with you is that you don’t know the meaning of the word “truth”. Perhaps you need to look it up in a dictionary. Here let me help you

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truth
Truth
1.the true or actual state of a matter
2.conformity with fact or reality;
3.a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like
4.the state or character of being true.
5.actuality or actual existence.

Now for what you think as truth

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief
Belief
1.something believed; an opinion or conviction
2.confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof
3.confidence; faith; trust
4.a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith

Can you see the difference?

P.S. you could also look up faith or even the new christian word “truthiness” in the more common faith sense.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truthi...
Truthiness

1 The quality of seeming to be true according to one's intuition, opinion, or perception without regard to logic, factual evidence, or the like

As for the godbots, their god has set a seal on their minds that they will never see or understand “truth” and will forever be destined to believe in make-believe, myth and old wives tails held together with a dream of truthiness.

You have to understand that there is no allah, your dream of god is a figment of your mind, indoctrinated from early childhood and based on the modified mythology of bronze age hebrew goat herders

Nope I will change as knowledge changes. You however will stay the same because your 1400 years old book does not change

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#3085 Apr 10, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
me and emporerjohn were having a discussion about polygamy, lets assume that it was legal and a common thing in your country, would you care to have more than one husband ??
I said that women will never care to get more than one husband, do you agree with that ??
Now you are getting into far more ancient custom than goddunit with magic

Historically women have been promiscuous, while husband was out hunting to feed the family (and perhaps screwing the woman from across the forest) the hunk of gorgeous manhood from the next valley was satisfying the good wife. This has not only been a pleasure to the hunk and the woman it has also helped diversify the genetic pool. I.e. we are not all inbred morons knuckling about the local tribal campfire.

Only religion and the jealousy of man in recent times (a few thousand years) have sought to label the woman as chattels but the “custom” still occurs. In recent surveys between 54% and 68% of women admit to being unfaithful.

I would consider more than one husband to be beneficial in more ways than one, it seems to me that women have far more voracious sexual appetites than men and the one shot man will be a thing of the past and the impotent man would be irrelevant.

And of course there is the money benefit with more than husband (and possibly wife) bringing income into the home then that home will prosper.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3086 Apr 10, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
its not the same story and certainly not similar, because according to this logic Jesus would have spent 3 days and 3 nights in the grave (according to historians it was some sort of a room rather than a grave) and also 3 days and 3 nights in hell ..!! but Jonah only spent 3 days and 3 nights in a whale and stayed alive.
Of course it's not the same story, Jesus was crucified whilst Jonah was swallowed by a whale.
The only similarity is that they were gone for 3 days.
hazem selawi wrote:
I am not basing my argument on the Quran, I am basing it on the Bible itself, and Crucifixion doesn't necessarily kills.
The crucified were always left to die no matter how long it took.
hazem selawi wrote:
that's why Jesus is coming back, because he never died and he should die like everyone else.
not to mention that Jesus name was mentioned 25 times in the Quran and Mohammed's name was only mentioned 5 times, doesn't that tell you something ??
I have no reason to believe Jesus never died.

Muhammad is frequently referred to in the Quran as a prophet or messenger so he's mentioned far more that just 5 times.
hazem selawi wrote:
the disciples weren't there and didn't watch the crucifixion and even if they did Jesus met them after he walked out alive from the grave and told them the whole story, the problem with the gospels is that we don't have any eye witness or any kind of proof that Jesus raised from death, As for Paul, it is universally accepted that he was not a disciple of Jesus, and Mark is traditionally said to be a disciple of Peter and hence not himself a disciple of Jesus, thus gospels of Mark and Paul shouldn't be entirely accepted as the truth of what really happened, not to mention that we don't have any kind of proof that the disciples of Jesus actually worshiped him, its a dilemma.
That's exactly my problem with the story of Jesus. We have no evidence that any of was true.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3087 Apr 11, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it's not the same story, Jesus was crucified whilst Jonah was swallowed by a whale.
The only similarity is that they were gone for 3 days.
there isn't any similarity with timing either ...!! I am sure you are familiar with GOOD FRIDAY, most countries of the world celebrate Good Friday, hence it is supposed to be the day in which Jesus was crucified, most Christians claim that he was crucified at Friday's eve, and at the same night he was put in the grave thus they claim that Jesus spent only Friday night, Saturday day and Saturday night and Sunday morning (when Mary showed and found out that Jesus raised from death) in the grave..!!!
that's 2 nights and 1 day, and that leaves me with no other choice but to believe that there is an obvious and clear sign here tell us that Jesus never died.

we don't need the Quran to confirm to us that Jesus never died, the Bible itself is trying to tell us something.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
The crucified were always left to die no matter how long it took.
I have no reason to believe Jesus never died.
Muhammad is frequently referred to in the Quran as a prophet or messenger so he's mentioned far more that just 5 times.
That's exactly my problem with the story of Jesus. We have no evidence that any of was true.
the problem is that we don't have any other words to describe such an incident, lets assume that you and hanged somebody and he didn't die because someone else cut the rope and saved his life, now would it be true if you and I claimed that we hanged this particular person ?? if we failed to kill that man then we failed to hang him, hence we never hanged him because in order to say someone was hanged he is supposed to be dead not alive.

my point is that if someone was put on the cross but didn't die it wouldn't be right to say someone was crucified specially when crucifixion failed .

The Quran perfectly explains this dilemma

"And they said we have killed the Messiah Isa son of Maryam, the Messenger of God. They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him. On the contrary, God raised him unto himself. God is almighty and wise."

those that disagreed about him are full of doubt with no knowledge to follow ...!! and what knowledge exactly can they follow ??!! the Bible is certainly not on their side.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3089 Apr 12, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
there isn't any similarity with timing either ...!! I am sure you are familiar with GOOD FRIDAY, most countries of the world celebrate Good Friday, hence it is supposed to be the day in which Jesus was crucified, most Christians claim that he was crucified at Friday's eve, and at the same night he was put in the grave thus they claim that Jesus spent only Friday night, Saturday day and Saturday night and Sunday morning (when Mary showed and found out that Jesus raised from death) in the grave..!!!
that's 2 nights and 1 day, and that leaves me with no other choice but to believe that there is an obvious and clear sign here tell us that Jesus never died.
we don't need the Quran to confirm to us that Jesus never died, the Bible itself is trying to tell us something.
Considering the contradictions in the Gospels accounts and the fact that the earliest copies of the earliest Gospel (Mark) don't contain any mention of Jesus returning, the simplest conclusion is that he stayed dead.
hazem selawi wrote:
the problem is that we don't have any other words to describe such an incident, lets assume that you and hanged somebody and he didn't die because someone else cut the rope and saved his life, now would it be true if you and I claimed that we hanged this particular person ?? if we failed to kill that man then we failed to hang him, hence we never hanged him because in order to say someone was hanged he is supposed to be dead not alive.
my point is that if someone was put on the cross but didn't die it wouldn't be right to say someone was crucified specially when crucifixion failed .
The Quran perfectly explains this dilemma
"And they said we have killed the Messiah Isa son of Maryam, the Messenger of God. They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him. On the contrary, God raised him unto himself. God is almighty and wise."
those that disagreed about him are full of doubt with no knowledge to follow ...!! and what knowledge exactly can they follow ??!! the Bible is certainly not on their side.
The problem with the Quran's account is that it's missing most of the story.
Why was he being crucified?
By whose orders?
What exactly happened on the cross?
What did Jesus do afterwards?
Where did he hide?
Who knew?
When did he rise up to heaven?
All this is missing and yet this is one of the most important stories in the Quran.

For me the Quran's version is just inadequate and unconvincing.
Thinking

Wellingborough, UK

#3090 Apr 14, 2014
Even so, a lot of babies were killed by your god?
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know about babies, but some Muslims scholar see that the flood wasn't on the whole world, it was only a punishment for a specific people, because the Quran clearly state that Noah was sent to his people and usually different tribes would have different prophets.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#3091 Apr 14, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
…
The crucified were always left to die no matter how long it took.
<quoted text>
I have no reason to believe Jesus never died.
…
I know of only one (possible) exception to this, no hard evidence but considerable teasers in the Talmud, Tosefta, early christian writing, the roman archives, and two or three authors of the period etc.

Yeshua ben pantera,(aka Judas the Galilean and Judas of the Sicari), a terrorist and the illegitimate son of Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera and a local Hebrew woman named Mary is in some quarters thought to be the model for jesus. He was captured and tried with the help of one Saulus (known to christianity as St Paul) and crucified for his crimes of terrorism against the state. His buddies of the Fourth Philosophy (perhaps the Sicari assassins themselves) bribed the guard and released him. He was seen about the locality several times over the next few weeks then disappeared. Most likely he died of blood poisoning from the nails that bound him to the cross.

He later became the posthumous figurehead of the Fourth Philosophy who over a couple of generations evolved into the christians we all know and love.

The emperor Titus along with the historian and writer Josephus hatched a plot to discredit the figurehead of the rising and troublesome group as the one who betrayed himself and with a little judicious swapping of letters yeshua ben pantera (aka Judas of the Sicari) became Judas Iscariot and a legend was born.

This is all quite sketchy but various documents can be found online from renowned academic/university sources to wikipedia and several books have been written that attempt to tie the information together.

Sara Reinke - Pantera
Robert Eisenman – James, the brother of Christ,
Hyam Maccobys – The Mythmaker,
Danial Underbank – Judas the Galilean: the flesh and blood Jesus
Paul Cresswell – Jesus the Terrorist

Individually each snippet means little but together they amount to far more evidence than there is for say, a guy walking on water. The only real difference is that these sources of information were (ineffectively) stamped out by papal decree in the mid 1500s.

Also note that “Yeshu,” is a Talmudic acronym for “Yimach Shmo V’Zichro” meaning “May his name and memory be obliterated.”
allofme

Rijswijk, Netherlands

#3092 Apr 14, 2014
Funny thing about the Abrahamic religions and this all powerful,all knowing perfect god/Allah fellow they all keep talking about....he is perfect and nothing can add to him yet somehow is motivated to create something(humans) he has no use for and can add nothing to him because nothing can add to perfection.

Putting aside that a perfect god could not possibly be motivated to make humans because he would have to desire something that he would be lacking what would be impossible because he is perfect...

If humans where actually created by a perfect god human life would be pointless and without purpose because nothing could add to the god that created them.

This stuff called religion is so obviously made up.You can easely tell by the fact that they do not awnser any of the questions of life but try to distract from those questions by making up a story around them.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3095 Apr 17, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
Old scholars and Commentators of the Quran like Ibn Abbas suggested that someone else was made to look like Jesus and was crucified instead of him as that particular man volunteered to be crucified and killed in order to go to heaven, while Jesus was saved and raised to heaven.
modern and other scholars state that the Quran never says that someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus. Rather what the Quran says is that it only looked like Jesus was crucified but in reality he wasn't, I think we previously discussed how you cannot say you hanged or crucified someone if that hanging or crucifixion failed, hence they killed him not nor crucified him, and Remember Jonah's sign.
anyways it doesn't matter if Jesus was made to look like he was crucified or someone else was crucified instead of him because the most important message in here is that we believe that Allah saved his messenger whether by a substitute on the cross or by saving him on the cross Just like how he saved Abraham after he was thrown into fire by his people.
The purpose of religious scholars is to make sense out of nonsense.
I really don't care about any theory of how Jesus might have survived.
Not one witness wrote anything and so I have no reason to believe Jesus didn't just stay dead like everybody else who was crucified.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3097 Apr 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
All scripture is bollocks.
<quoted text>
where are your proofs ??
Thinking

Wellingborough, UK

#3098 Apr 18, 2014
Whenever you try to pass off the koran as science.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
where are your proofs ??

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3099 Apr 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Whenever you try to pass off the koran as science.
<quoted text>
can you give us any examples ??
Thinking

Wellingborough, UK

#3100 Apr 18, 2014
Yes.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
can you give us any examples ??

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3101 Apr 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Yes.
<quoted text>
go ahead, I am waiting.
Thinking

Wellingborough, UK

#3102 Apr 18, 2014
See you Tuesday, then.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
go ahead, I am waiting.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3103 Apr 18, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus dying on the cross is the one thing the gospels agree on.
The Quran saying the Christians got the story wrong doesn't mean the Quran got it right, all it means is that we now have five versions of the story.
it seems like you are not familiar with the major differences between Christians sects, Some claim that Jesus never died because he wasn't a man in the first place and he was only a spirit in a form of a man thus could never die.

we don't really know what the original disciples of Jesus thought and what they actually believed in, I guess we previously discussed that Even mark (the author of the oldest gospel) was not a disciple of Jesus.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
What prophets were killed by the Israelis? I only know of Jesus.
The Quran claiming the Israelites were deceitful isn't proof they were deceitful.
some prophets were killed by Jews check verses 2:91, 2:61 and 4:155 , it is also confirmed in the Bible 1 Thessalonians 2:15 and Matthew 23:29-32.

https://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php...

if Jews weren't deceitful then why did they try to kill Jesus ?? or why did they kill the son of god (according to christians story)???
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said the story made sense but then I don't believe Jesus not dying makes any more sense.
The Qurans version is inadequate because too much of Jesus story is missing. Omission isn't more accurate than error.
If Jesus was such an important prophet then why does the Quran contain so little of his life? We're told he raised the dead and cured the sick yet not a single example is given. Also the Jewish and Roman scribes of that time failed to notice Jesus existence let alone any miracles.
The purpose of religious scholars is to make sense out of nonsense.
I really don't care about any theory of how Jesus might have survived.
Not one witness wrote anything and so I have no reason to believe Jesus didn't just stay dead like everybody else who was crucified.
are you sure you read the Quran from cover to covet twice ??!! I am sorry but I am starting to doubt it, you claim that the Quran contain so little of Jesus life ..!! then how come his name is mentioned 100% more times than Mohammed's name ?! how come Mohamed mother's name is not mentioned in the Quran while there is a whole chapter hold the name of Jesus mother (chapter Maryam)?!

so what do you believe ??? do you believe Jesus ever existed ? was he a prophet ? or was he just an ordinary man ??
its now your turn to tell me what you believe actually happened 2014 years ago

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#3104 Apr 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
See you Tuesday, then.
<quoted text>
I'll see you on Tuesday monsieur, Inchalla.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#3106 Apr 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
it seems like you are not familiar with the major differences between Christians sects, Some claim that Jesus never died because he wasn't a man in the first place and he was only a spirit in a form of a man thus could never die.
we don't really know what the original disciples of Jesus thought and what they actually believed in, I guess we previously discussed that Even mark (the author of the oldest gospel) was not a disciple of Jesus.
The Christians getting the story wrong doesn't mean the Quran got it right.
hazem selawi wrote:
some prophets were killed by Jews check verses 2:91, 2:61 and 4:155 , it is also confirmed in the Bible 1 Thessalonians 2:15 and Matthew 23:29-32.
https://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php...
You're right. I forgot about John the baptist.
hazem selawi wrote:
if Jews weren't deceitful then why did they try to kill Jesus ?? or why did they kill the son of god (according to christians story)???
Because they didn't think he was a prophet.

The Quran admits there were many false prophets and Muslims are quite happy with the idea of them being put to death. So the question is how do we tell real prophets from false ones? Of course if there are no real prophets (which is my view) then it's not surprising that so many fall foul of the established priesthood.
hazem selawi wrote:
are you sure you read the Quran from cover to covet twice ??!! I am sorry but I am starting to doubt it, you claim that the Quran contain so little of Jesus life ..!! then how come his name is mentioned 100% more times than Mohammed's name ?! how come Mohamed mother's name is not mentioned in the Quran while there is a whole chapter hold the name of Jesus mother (chapter Maryam)?!
so what do you believe ??? do you believe Jesus ever existed ? was he a prophet ? or was he just an ordinary man ??
In the Quran we are told many times that Jesus is not the son of God. What we don't get is his life story. There's more about his mother than him.
If you disagree then please provide verses about his life and miracles.
hazem selawi wrote:
its now your turn to tell me what you believe actually happened 2014 years ago
About 2014 years ago a baby was born, possible to a carpenter.
About 33 years later he was an itinerant preacher, preaching his own views on Judaism and the temple priests.
He cause enough trouble and preached enough heretical ideas for the Priests to have him killed by the Romans.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#3107 Apr 19, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you are not being rational, according to your logic if you want to make all people equal then you should legalize murdering, raping and torturing because after all a serial killer would love to kill and a rapist would also have the right to rape.
its not a matter of feelings and just allowing everybody to do whatever he/she desires to do, we shouldn't let our feelings overcome rationality and justice.
we cannot deny that men are more violent than women, of course there are men more sensitive than women, But in general all the statistics prove to us that men are usually more violent, not to mention the big differences between the psychology of men and women, so if you allowed women to have more than one husband that wouldn't create justice and/or fairness in anyway, its more likely to cause the exact opposite.
It's not about being "equal". I suspect you are confusing "free will" with human "rights" or some such garbage.

Having or wanting two husbands is not inherently evil like being a serial killer is. Why would you even attempt to try to insinuate that a woman doing the same as a man is evil?

Is it justice to make a woman share her husband with other wives? Women are no less jealous than men are. "Civilized" men should be able to share one wife, but you aren't speaking about a civilized society, you're speaking of Islamic society...one that does not value women as highly as it does men.

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