Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3147 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2715 Mar 18, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
And I have shown you the observable Cyrtodactylus macrotuberculatus and you dismissed it out of hand. And the fossil record is observable and testable. It really does not matter how you try to obfuscate the facts, the facts still exists
Do you have any observable and testable evidence for this? Do you have palaeomerycidae or climacocerid DNA to prove your point? Note that humans have the same (to within 99%) DNA chimpanzees and bonobo apes.
I thought Humans share over 90% of their DNA with their primate cousins, its the first time somebody tell me we have the same to within 99% DNA chimpanzees and bonobo..!

yesterday a Blue eyed monkey was born in a zoo in your neck of the woods, doesn't that somehow contradicts evolution ?

I always wondered why isn't there any blonde apes ? do you have any answer for that ?
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
And my point was what has having a degree got to do with my hobby? Actually anyone who watches the stars as a hobby is classed as an astronomer and much astronomical data is provided by such people. In the same way a lot of archaeology depends on amateurs, obviously backed up qualified experts in the field. I am not quite sure if you should have chosen astronomy as your counter here.
Despite the diminutive size there are many similarities to humans and transitional bone structure between earlier and more modern homo’s
I think you should turn your hobby into a career.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Apology accepted as for the Quran, I state what is written, not what is interpreted because interpretation can be open to interpretation. And to prove this I usually give verse numbers so that no one can accuse me of saying something that is not written.
but when you read the Quran in English , you'll only get the general meaning, and if you read that general meaning and try to understand it away from the historical context, commentaries and Sunnah you'll absolutely misunderstand every word in there.

“Sombrero Galaxy”

Since: Jan 10

I'm An Illegal Alien

#2716 Mar 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
so to clear things out; what happened before the Big Bang is a mystery and the evolution theory doesn't disprove the idea of a creator ..!!
if science is not on your side then how did you come to the conclusion that there is no god or creator ??!!
Well because your creator has not bothered to reveal himself or leave evidence.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2717 Mar 18, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why the need for interpretation?
Why the need for – it says “A” here and it says “B” there so it must mean “C” unless you take into account the “D” that it says here in which case it means “E”
Why not, it says “A” here so this bit means “A”
And it says “B” there so that bit means “B”
And this bit a little later say “D” so that bit must mean “D”
WTF has “C” and “E” for to do with what was actually written?
Actually christian tend to interpret in the same way, it says this here and hundreds of years later it says that so the earlier bit must mean something completely different than what it actually says
that is a very good question and I think the Quran can answer your question perfectly in the following verse:

"It is He who has sent down to you,[O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding" 3:7

Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat (verses) that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone. And there are Ayat in the Qur'an that are Mutashabihat not entirely clear for many, or some people. So those who refer to the Muhkam Ayat to understand the Mutashabih Ayat, will have acquired the correct guidance, and vice versa. This is why Allah said,(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,(And others not entirely clear) as they have several meanings, some that agree with the Muhkam and some that carry other literal indications, although these meaning might not be desired.

The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented. As for the Mutashabihat Ayat, they include the abrogated Ayat, parables, oaths, and what should be believed in, but not implemented.

if you wanted to read the full interpretation of the verse check this website
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php...

my point is interpretation help us to understand the Quran, just try to read the verse by yourself and then read ibn kathir interpretation, you'll find out that you missed a lot of points, although Arabic is my mother tongue is Arabic I miss numerous points when I read the Quran, explanations and commentaries help a lot to understand Quran, but we have to take in account that those who interpret the Quran according to their views and desires will make a place in hell fire.

The Holy Prophet (S) said: One who interprets the Qur’an according to personal opinion he makes his place in fire (Hell).

like some people claim that Alcohol is not lawful in Islam and try to find verses and interpret it according to their desires..!!

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2718 Mar 18, 2014
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Well because your creator has not bothered to reveal himself or leave evidence.
I think he left Countless evidences, but you are the one who is not willing to accept any of them, if you ever believed in a creator you have to admit, that such creator cannot be seen by our eyes, we barely can look at the sun.

“Sombrero Galaxy”

Since: Jan 10

I'm An Illegal Alien

#2719 Mar 18, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why the need for interpretation?
Why the need for – it says “A” here and it says “B” there so it must mean “C” unless you take into account the “D” that it says here in which case it means “E”
Why not, it says “A” here so this bit means “A”
And it says “B” there so that bit means “B”
And this bit a little later say “D” so that bit must mean “D”
WTF has “C” and “E” for to do with what was actually written?
Actually christian tend to interpret in the same way, it says this here and hundreds of years later it says that so the earlier bit must mean something completely different than what it actually says
They need to re interpret it in order to justify it's barbarism with the morals with of the present and order to adjust it so that it seems scientifically correct.

“Sombrero Galaxy”

Since: Jan 10

I'm An Illegal Alien

#2720 Mar 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he left Countless evidences, but you are the one who is not willing to accept any of them, if you ever believed in a creator you have to admit, that such creator cannot be seen by our eyes, we barely can look at the sun.
What evidence?
Your creator could simply solve that issue by using his magic to make himself visible, as the Christians claim that he did.
Atheist Silurist

Pembroke, UK

#2721 Mar 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>

I always wondered why isn't there any blonde apes ? do you have any answer for that ?


What about the Lar gibbon? Blond enough?

http://www.shoarns.com/Gibbon.html
Atheist Silurist

Pembroke, UK

#2722 Mar 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>

but when you read the Quran in English , you'll only get the general meaning, and if you read that general meaning and try to understand it away from the historical context, commentaries and Sunnah you'll absolutely misunderstand every word in there.
Total and utter bollocks.

Most muslims in Pakistan don't even understand Arabic. They go to islamic schools and just mouth the words on the page while bobbing like a nodding donkey. they can read it like I can read a book written in Latin. but I would understand next to nothing about what I was reading.
If islam is going to have any impact in China they will all have to learn Arabic before they can understand it,because according to you,it can't be understood unless it is read in the language for which it was written.
You would think that the most important message written in the last 1300 years,according to the muslims that is,would have been written in a language that everyone could understand. The fact that it isn't,according to you,is more proof that it is the biggest load of bollocks that has been written in the last 1300,and a curse for millions who are force fed the crap from birth.

You say that your religion plays no part in your opposition to evolution,but that is a total lie. the opposition to evolution theory comes almost exclusively from the religious types. If it didn't contradict what is written in their "holy" books of myths and fables there wouldn't be so much opposition to it from religious fruitcakes. Like creationist Ken Ham said. "if evolution is true, that means that the genesis story is false" He,like countless millions of others,will not accept something they don't want to. All the evidence in tho world won't change their minds. And neither would it yours.
Mahmood

Brampton, Canada

#2723 Mar 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I really don't understand your logic, you are supposed to know at first the definition of Christians and Jews, and the Quran continues to define Christians and Jews in other verses ...!!
"They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers." 5:72
"They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment." 5:73
read the above verses carefully, because they stand as an exception and state clearly that not all Christians are believers.
so now you are an expert in Judaism too, that's interesting ..!!
No, I am not an expert in Judiaism, but I have met some Jewish scholars who have told me that there is nothing in the annals of Jewish history that claims that Ezra was the son of God.

2:62 does not distinguish nor does it define what kind of Xtian or Jew will go to paradise. I have shown you two tafsirs, and both of them contradict your claim. What I do know is that the Koran makes it clear, that those who do not believe in Allah and his messenger Mohammad will burn in hell and I believe you will agree with this statement. Now you are trying define who a Xtian or Jew is by quoting verses from the Koran. All those verses that you are quoting is a protest by the authors of the Koran to the people of the book.
Mahmood

Brampton, Canada

#2724 Mar 18, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
there is a wisdom behind everything Prophet Mohammed did, Just wait and see, besides you are absolutely wrong about the Camel battle, because Aisha (RDTA) never fought against Ali ..!!!
she went out to reform between people amon with some companions of Mohammed (PBUH), what shias taught you has nothing to do with the truth.
Aisha said: "I came out to reform between people. Therefore, tell your people to stay at their house, and to be content until they get what they love, i.e. the reformation of the Muslims' matter." (Book of the Trustworthy, by Ibn Habban, vol.2, p.282)
shias also claim that thousands of people died in that battle, that too is far away from the truth.
I never paid any attention to what a shia says. I just read history books, and from what I have read, Aisha along with Talha and Zubayr fought against Ali and was defeated. Ali and Aisha never saw eye to eye even when Mohammad was alive....remember the necklace affair? During the course of the battle Aisha was in her camel litter and that is why it was called Battle of Camel. She was hit in the upper arm by an arrow which was pulled out by her brother Mohammad. My sources are Tabari & Baladhuri, never heard of Ibn Habban.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2725 Mar 19, 2014
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence?
Your creator could simply solve that issue by using his magic to make himself visible, as the Christians claim that he did.
everything around us prove the creator's ingenuity, that's right but then there would be no point for a test or anything, the whole concept of the world and life would change.
Thinking

Cupar, UK

#2726 Mar 19, 2014
So all suicide bombers are c**ts. Yet you've posted otherwise. The taqiyya runs strong in you.

I believe sunni fighting shiite for 1400 years+ is holding back any chance I could have to respect your faith.

Also, I am far more tolerant of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists because they don't crap on about their religious rights to me all the bloody time.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
we are not violent, we don't oppress women and we certainly don't attack knowledge, maybe very few of us do the above, just like any people, we have good and bad people ...!!!
besides it seems like we are both you and I want the world to become a better place, but trust me by attacking our beliefs and religions you are making it worse.
you came to a conclusion that Islam is holding us back, and that its the reason behind the difficulties Muslim nations are facing, that's your opinion, However, your opinion is based on a serious lack of knowledge about Islam.
Thinking

Cupar, UK

#2727 Mar 19, 2014
So you praise your god for miscarriages, cot deaths and childhood leukaemia.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
everything around us prove the creator's ingenuity, that's right but then there would be no point for a test or anything, the whole concept of the world and life would change.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2728 Mar 19, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
the first thing I told you before we started to discuss the evolution theory is to put my religion aside, and to find out what scientists say about evolution, so my religion was completely out of the equation, anyways what I was trying to say is that there is a big fat list of scientists disproving evolution, and specially for a kind of species evolving into another distinct kind of species.
besides we as Muslims don't just say God created the universe and that's it..!!
we are obligated to find out how God created the universe to admire the creator's ingenuity, and I think your approach (agnostics) and ours will lead to the same results.
Don't look at muslims now because apparently we are going through a very had phase, we don't have the very minimum requirements of a decent life (because of several factors), the last century wasn't ours at all, but you cannot blame our Islam for that.
I don't want us to go back and run in circles again to prove to you that Islam isn't against science, its exactly the opposite.
<quoted text>
I never expected Canadians to have a leading center for scientific research, yet french (CERN), that's very interesting.
I guess after all America is no longer a Magnet to scientists from all over the world, or you never know maybe most of those scientists got their education in the united states and came back to their countries, poor America ..!!
And why should I put your religion aside? It dictates how you consider so many aspects this life we lead and evolution is one aspect of that life.

Wrong, there is a very small list of scientist that do not agree with evolution. The overwhelming majority (around 99.85%) of biologist and earth scantiest accept evolution. As for other sciences there are no figures that I know of but I do know several scientist who tell me the number is pretty much non existent. You need to consider the discovery institute, the worlds leading centre for the promotion of ID that brags and boasts around 700 scientist who believe in there cause. That compared to almost 6 million scientists in total is a little a drop in the ocean

See
http://www.sciencemeetsreligion.org/evolution...
and many other papers on the subject

How can you find out how a myth created a physical object? Another impossibility set to keep you servile to your god book.

Actually I can blame your Islam for your Islamic governments, I can blame your Islam for you intolerance of other beliefs, I can blame your Islam for its abuse of women (and children), I can blame your Islam for its deliberate ignorance.

Islam in general is against any science that does not agree goddunit with magic. That of course does not include all Muslims, there are some who are open to genuine scientific advancement.

You would be surprised at where some scientific institutes are located. Hell, even America with a more then 70% belief in goddunit with magic is home to some of the most ground breaking research establishments.

And CERN is an international organisation, it just happens to be based in France.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2729 Mar 19, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought Humans share over 90% of their DNA with their primate cousins, its the first time somebody tell me we have the same to within 99% DNA chimpanzees and bonobo..!
yesterday a Blue eyed monkey was born in a zoo in your neck of the woods, doesn't that somehow contradicts evolution ?
I always wondered why isn't there any blonde apes ? do you have any answer for that ?
<quoted text>
I think you should turn your hobby into a career.
<quoted text>
but when you read the Quran in English , you'll only get the general meaning, and if you read that general meaning and try to understand it away from the historical context, commentaries and Sunnah you'll absolutely misunderstand every word in there.
You though wrong. Perhaps your islamic teachers were lying to you… Actually the figure does vary depending on how it is measured, I have seen as low as 95% but it is typically between 98% and over 99%

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibiti...
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
http://www.pnas.org/content/100/12/7181.short

I have blue eyes and have studied the reasons for and spread back to first occurrence in Northern Turkey. Why should it contradict evolution? It’s typical of evolution in that genetic mutation causes change. I used to have a cat with blue eyes. There are quite a lot of spider monkeys that have blue eyes

Blonde apes – yes I have an answer
http://www.foxnews.com/images/385241/3_21_ape...
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/1...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5060/5575499645...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3548/329672067...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/...
http://urbismedia-ltd.com/html/images/going-a...
Ooops sorry, that last one was blonde with ape.

Nah, it doesn’t pay enough, besides, in 18 months I intend giving up work and moving to France where I can spend more time crawling about in caves.

Translations are what they are, the same applies to the babble, that of course does not make any difference to the faith of the millions of christians who cannot read latin. Saying you cannot understand it the way I understand because you read it in a different language is really quite sad. Is it not qualified Quranic scholars who have done the translation?

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2730 Mar 19, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
that is a very good question and I think the Quran can answer your question perfectly in the following verse:
"It is He who has sent down to you,[O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding" 3:7
Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat (verses) that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone. And there are Ayat in the Qur'an that are Mutashabihat not entirely clear for many, or some people. So those who refer to the Muhkam Ayat to understand the Mutashabih Ayat, will have acquired the correct guidance, and vice versa. This is why Allah said,(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,(And others not entirely clear) as they have several meanings, some that agree with the Muhkam and some that carry other literal indications, although these meaning might not be desired.
The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented. As for the Mutashabihat Ayat, they include the abrogated Ayat, parables, oaths, and what should be believed in, but not implemented.
if you wanted to read the full interpretation of the verse check this website
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php...
my point is interpretation help us to understand the Quran, just try to read the verse by yourself and then read ibn kathir interpretation, you'll find out that you missed a lot of points, although Arabic is my mother tongue is Arabic I miss numerous points when I read the Quran, explanations and commentaries help a lot to understand Quran, but we have to take in account that those who interpret the Quran according to their views and desires will make a place in hell fire.
The Holy Prophet (S) said: One who interprets the Qur’an according to personal opinion he makes his place in fire (Hell).
like some people claim that Alcohol is not lawful in Islam and try to find verses and interpret it according to their desires..!!
So what you are saying is quoting a verse number and saying this verse says Abc… because that is what the verse actually says is totally irrelevant because it needs to be interpreted first to see how the interpreter interprets it??? Wow, forget the Quran, go strait for goal and buy your favourite interpretation instead….

Because the interpretation adds lots of points does not mean that those points are written in the quran, it means that is how the interpreter interprets it.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2731 Mar 19, 2014
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
They need to re interpret it in order to justify it's barbarism with the morals with of the present and order to adjust it so that it seems scientifically correct.
That’s pretty much how it is. An outdated book of little worth in modern society.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2732 Mar 19, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
everything around us prove the creator's ingenuity, that's right but then there would be no point for a test or anything, the whole concept of the world and life would change.
Wrong, everything around us proves the arrow of time.

But you cannot imagine that basic principle of this universe so you imagine that goddunit with magic.

A test of “well it looks good so goddunit with magic” is not a test, it’s a cop out.

Honey the whole concept of the life and the world has changed in the last 1400 years.
Thinking

Cupar, UK

#2733 Mar 19, 2014
Negative icontards prove we're hitting our targets well.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, everything around us proves the arrow of time.
But you cannot imagine that basic principle of this universe so you imagine that goddunit with magic.
A test of “well it looks good so goddunit with magic” is not a test, it’s a cop out.
Honey the whole concept of the life and the world has changed in the last 1400 years.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2735 Mar 19, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Negative icontards prove we're hitting our targets well.
<quoted text>
Bang on target every time…

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