Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

Sep 14, 2013 Full story: Examiner.com 3,047

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

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Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2419 Feb 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you are saying that Muslims are not Islamic? Honey your goalposts are getting wider and wider.
for your information Muslims are not angels, do we have rapists ?? do we have terrorists ? do we have child molesters, thieves and murderers ???

yes of course we have all kind of people but what I don't get is that you always link what Muslims do to Islam, although such people are doing exactly what Islam told them not to do and even warned those people from Hell and punishments in sharia law.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I have pointed out some of the Islamic teachings that indoctrinate Ďsomeí Muslims to be misogynists and/or terrorists and each time you have attempted to use your time machine to modify these teaching with later teaching. This of course makes not the slightest different to the fact that those sexist and murdering Muslims do not seem to possess time machines and they believe they do what they do because their god book taught them to do what they do..
you didnt do anything you only took verses out of its original context, you didnt even take in consideration Mohammed's teachings.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? If a woman want to sell the use of her body then it is up to that woman and the men who want to pay for the use of that body. It is restrictions imposed by certain governments and faiths that has driven prostitution underground and allowed the criminal to take control. I think you will find that in countries where prostitution is not illegal no such criminal strangle hold exists.
is prostitution legal in London ??
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You should be aware that my eldest daughter is named in honour of a woman who sold her body, not a prostitute but an ďexoticĒ dancer but would sometime take money for sex. She died of leukaemia and brain tumour (wonderful diseases (more sarcasm) invented by your god? retribution of your god?). She was the most wonderful, warm hearted, caring, honest, forgiving, candid, sincere and genuine person I have ever met in my entire life.
Under sharia law I could not care less, I pay my taxes as required by British law and I donate to good causes and charities of my own free will. When I move to France I will pay taxes under the French law and I will still donate of my own free will.
Been here before I see the Muslim mistreatment of women as defined in the quran most days of my life. I have shown you various chapters and several verses that do teach that women are inferior.
This is the last time I am going to provide verse numbers from your god book, I consider the case proven, you are welcome to bluster and live in denial all you want.
Qur'an 2:223, 2:228, 2:282,4:11,24:31
Even in the face of those verses you have denied it. Is this one of the authentic things you are allowed to lie about? Please donít get me wrong here, many men of various faiths (or not) are proud of their egotestical (correct spelling) mistreatment of women, the difference is many know it is wrong and so hide it behind closed doors, unlike Muslims who are open in there mistreatment of women.
remind me to reply to this part of your post, Because I gotta go.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2420 Feb 26, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
can you show me where I lied ?? and why exactly would I lie about what Islam teaches ??
its obvious that you went through a lot because of religious people, so that's why you came up with such stereotypes, and I don't blame you, but you are not listening I have been telling from the first day forget about the people and find out what Islam actually teaches.
Whenever you claim that Islam sees woman as equal to men, despite all the evidence to contradict your claim, is one such lie

What a load of bollocks. Honey I do not blame religion for the acts of religious fooktards, I blame the fooktards. Why do you imagine I should blame mythology for the malicious and hateful actions of sick people? The fact that so many of those sick people hide behind religion only means that itís easy to harm someone and then say ďOh itís ok, god will forgive me with plastic 72 virginsĒ

That fact that you have been telling me to forget people is a little stupid donít you think. Rather like telling someone not to breath. I am not a robot that can turn off humanity in favour of what is nothing more than a modified bronze age belief.

You want to continue discussing, arguing whatever then fine but do not think for a moment that you will corral me with lies of non-existent misogyny and impossible utopias by forgetting about who I am

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2421 Feb 26, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
for your information Muslims are not angels, do we have rapists ?? do we have terrorists ? do we have child molesters, thieves and murderers ???
yes of course we have all kind of people but what I don't get is that you always link what Muslims do to Islam, although such people are doing exactly what Islam told them not to do and even warned those people from Hell and punishments in sharia law.
<quoted text>
you didnt do anything you only took verses out of its original context, you didnt even take in consideration Mohammed's teachings.
<quoted text>
is prostitution legal in London ??
<quoted text>
remind me to reply to this part of your post, Because I gotta go.
Yes I know but up until now you have denied that these people are Muslim.

Wrong I took the verses as written, you supplied the time machine

It is not illegal, soliciting is illegal.

Donít forget top reply to this part of my post
Mahmood

Markham, Canada

#2422 Feb 26, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
yes of course Mohammed (PBUH) didn't directly appoint to a specific caliph to be the ruler after him, maybe because he wanted muslims to choose one of them , he only appointed to several good people, so there were Ali, Umar, Abu bakr and Sa'ad from Al Medina.
and they all agreed that Abu bakr was the best man for the job, and as you said not only the Muslim community fragmented when Mohammed (PBUH) died but a lot of tribes left Islam and some of them made new rules, like they wouldn't pay Zakkah or perform prayers, the whole Message of Islam was in danger, even some previous Muslim tribes tried to Attack Al Madina to take over Islam and guess what ...!!! within 2 years Abu bakr Al Sideeq got everything back to its normal track.
you are absolutely right 3 of the most rightly guided caliphs got killed, but for me that proves nothing but their authenticity.
When you say maybe he because he wanted Muslims to choose means you are engaging in conjecture. Had he appointed a leader, the muslim community would have been one.
Mahmood

Markham, Canada

#2423 Feb 26, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
then what is your problem with Islam ??
I noticed you said several times that some Muslims came up with what you refer to " man made Islam " , what exactly do you mean by that ??
My problem with Islam has nothing to do with Mohammad's greatness. There are many a great men who have come and gone. Just because he was a great man does make Islam true.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2424 Feb 26, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe they died for the promise of a vast reward?
Qur'an (9:111)- "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a ."
yes Of course they fought for the rewards Allah promised them in the Quran, or to be more clear they fought to please Allah, even Mohammed himself once said that he wishes to go to a battle and die for the sake of allah and come back to life to go back again and die for the sake of Allah, and come back again to die for the sake of Allah.

its every muslim wish to die for the sake of Allah, However Jihad is categorized into three different kinds, there is what called Jihad by self ( jihad al Nafs), Jihad by tongue (by motivating people, soldiers and spreading the truth of Islam through words), and Finally Jihad by money ( by preparing armies and soldiers with weapons and etc).

Jihad is a very important thing in Islam, once a Bedouin who was an infidel came to prophet Mohammed and asked him if he became a Muslim and died in a battle would he get what other Muslims will get after dying for the sake of Allah, prophet told him yes.

so that Bedouin Joined Muslims right away and died in the battle at the same day, so that Bedouin is already in heaven although he never prayed, never paid Zakkah and nearly know a nothing about Islam.

you also have to bare in mind that the intention of the muslim is very important because back then some people fought for reputation and just wanted people to say oooh what a brave warrior, So only god knows one's intention and if it wasn't pure for god his death will go for nothing and even may go to hell.

Once Ali Bin Abi Taleb (Mohammed's cousin) was fighting in a battle and during that Battle he was about to kill an enemy and just before he killed him that man spit on him, so he decided not to kill that man although it was very likely that man would kill him, so some asked him why did you do that ??! he said I felt like if I killed that man it would be out of anger and revenge because he spit on me so it wouldn't be for god's sake, the point is that Muslims should only fight for the sake of Allah and to spread justice.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
But if they've got the wrong God then they've died for the wrong cause.
But if they were right, then you will be an big trouble :P
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
All rulers have a select group of advisers and friends. They very quickly become the rich and powerful elite and loose touch with the common people.
One of the advantages of democracy is that even the most powerful politicians can be e.
yes you are right but in Islam it is different because before the moubaya (choosing) Abu bakr as the first caliph of Muslims, the majority of Muslims said to Abu Bakr what can be generally translated to "if you lost the track of the straight path we will let you come back to the straight path by our swords" , and during the caliphate of Umar bin Al khattab the second rightly guided companion a slave stood up in the mosque after the distribution of some Spoils, and started screaming at the caliph, that slave thought that Umar took a bigger share than others of some sort of fabrics, because Umar was known to be a big man , very tall and huge so he needed to take 2 pieces in order to cover his body, but others only got 1 piece, but after that it turned out that someone gave his piece to the caliph ( I don't remember his name).

anyways under sharia law if the Ruler or the leader of Muslims ignored Islam rules, the people have the right to take him down, that Muslim was angry because he thought Umar took an extra piece of fabric, how about if Umar lived in a palace ??or ignored people like you suggested ??!

there is a golden Hadith in Islam which says " There is no obedience to the creation in disobedience to the Creator"

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#2425 Feb 26, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
yes Of course they fought for the rewards Allah promised them in the Quran, or to be more clear they fought to please Allah, even Mohammed himself once said that he wishes to go to a battle and die for the sake of allah and come back to life to go back again and die for the sake of Allah, and come back again to die for the sake of Allah.
its every muslim wish to die for the sake of Allah, However Jihad is categorized into three different kinds, there is what called Jihad by self ( jihad al Nafs), Jihad by tongue (by motivating people, soldiers and spreading the truth of Islam through words), and Finally Jihad by money ( by preparing armies and soldiers with weapons and etc).
Jihad is a very important thing in Islam, once a Bedouin who was an infidel came to prophet Mohammed and asked him if he became a Muslim and died in a battle would he get what other Muslims will get after dying for the sake of Allah, prophet told him yes.
so that Bedouin Joined Muslims right away and died in the battle at the same day, so that Bedouin is already in heaven although he never prayed, never paid Zakkah and nearly know a nothing about Islam.
So the bedouin fought for the promised rewards of paradise?
Would he have fought if there was no reward?

It seems to me that the best way to get people to die for you is to tell them they will get virgins in paradise. This has nothing to do with pleasing God but everything to do with personal gain.
hazem selawi wrote:
you also have to bare in mind that the intention of the muslim is very important because back then some people fought for reputation and just wanted people to say oooh what a brave warrior, So only god knows one's intention and if it wasn't pure for god his death will go for nothing and even may go to hell.
Once Ali Bin Abi Taleb (Mohammed's cousin) was fighting in a battle and during that Battle he was about to kill an enemy and just before he killed him that man spit on him, so he decided not to kill that man although it was very likely that man would kill him, so some asked him why did you do that ??! he said I felt like if I killed that man it would be out of anger and revenge because he spit on me so it wouldn't be for god's sake, the point is that Muslims should only fight for the sake of Allah and to spread justice.
Killing for a God whose only evidence is the word of just one man is not rational.
hazem selawi wrote:
But if they were right, then you will be an big trouble :P
I've read the Quran. I'm not in trouble.
hazem selawi wrote:
yes you are right but in Islam it is different because before the moubaya (choosing) Abu bakr as the first caliph of Muslims, the majority of Muslims said to Abu Bakr what can be generally translated to "if you lost the track of the straight path we will let you come back to the straight path by our swords" , and during the caliphate of Umar bin Al khattab the second rightly guided companion a slave stood up in the mosque after the distribution of some Spoils, and started screaming at the caliph, that slave thought that Umar took a bigger share than others of some sort of fabrics, because Umar was known to be a big man , very tall and huge so he needed to take 2 pieces in order to cover his body, but others only got 1 piece, but after that it turned out that someone gave his piece to the caliph ( I don't remember his name).
anyways under sharia law if the Ruler or the leader of Muslims ignored Islam rules, the people have the right to take him down, that Muslim was angry because he thought Umar took an extra piece of fabric, how about if Umar lived in a palace ??or ignored people like you suggested ??!
there is a golden Hadith in Islam which says " There is no obedience to the creation in disobedience to the Creator"
It didn't take long for the Caliphs to start living in vast palaces. Though I will admit there were a lot of rebellions against them.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2426 Feb 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Whenever you claim that Islam sees woman as equal to men, despite all the evidence to contradict your claim, is one such lie
you still haven't answered my question, do you think that men and women are the same ???
I think its clear for everybody that there are big differences between the 2 genders, what if your husband was exactly like you ?? no difference at all would you still be attracted to him ?? and now what if all men and women were exactly the same ??!!
I think if that happened humans will stop breeding, and within several centuries human beings will be history.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
What a load of bollocks. Honey I do not blame religion for the acts of religious fooktards, I blame the fooktards. Why do you imagine I should blame mythology for the malicious and hateful actions of sick people? The fact that so many of those sick people hide behind religion only means that itís easy to harm someone and then say ďOh itís ok, god will forgive me with plastic 72 virginsĒ
Wow ..!!! you don't blame mythologies you only blame the hateful actions of sick people, after all we do agree on a lot of things.

However al Hur al Ein aren't in plastic, and as I was telling "igor trip" the intention of the fighter is the most important thing, because some people at the time of Mohammed used to fight in battles for reputation and some fought for spoils, and even some fought for tribal issues, and Mohammed (PBUH) made it clear that if your intention was not pure for Allah then your death will go for nothing and even may burn in hell, for instance during a battle back then some companions went to Mohammed and started to compliment a Muslim fighter as he was very brave and fought the enemies Bravely, Mohammed (PBUH) said that this man will burn in hell, one of the companions was curious because it didn't make sense to him that such a fighter will burn in hell and at the same time he believed that everything Mohammed say is the complete truth, so he decided to watch that man and follow him until that man was injured and unfortunately he committed suicide because he couldn't stand the pain, some scholars and other narrators say that this man didn't fight for the sake of Allah in the beginning.

the Authentic hadith from Sahih Bukhari

"The Prophet looked at a man fighting against the pagans and he was one of the most competent persons fighting on behalf of the Muslims. The Prophet said, "Let him who wants to look at a man from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire, look at this (man)." Another man followed him and kept on following him till he (the fighter) was injured and, seeking to die quickly, he placed the blade tip of his sword between his breasts and leaned over it till it passed through his shoulders (i.e., committed suicide)." The Prophet added, "A person may do deeds that seem to the people as the deeds of the people of Paradise while in fact, he is from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire: and similarly a person may do deeds that seem to the people as the deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire while in fact, he is from the dwellers of Paradise. Verily, the (results of) deeds done, depend upon the last actions."
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That fact that you have been telling me to forget people is a little stupid donít you think. Rather like telling someone not to breath. I am not a robot that can turn off humanity in favour of what is nothing more than a modified bronze age belief.
You want to continue discussing, arguing whatever then fine but do not think for a moment that you will corral me with lies of non-existent misogyny and impossible utopias by forgetting about who I am
I may not be able to respond to to any comment in the next 2 or 3 days because I am travelling to Lebanon and probably will not have internet access.

Peace

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2427 Feb 26, 2014
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
When you say maybe he because he wanted Muslims to choose means you are engaging in conjecture. Had he appointed a leader, the muslim community would have been one.
When Mohammed (PBUH) was sick and dying in Aisha's house, he told Abu bakr to be the Imam at the prayers in Al Madina mosque, Sunni scholars say that is a very clear sign that Mohammed wanted Abu Bakr to be the next leader for Muslims, Shia scholars say Ali was supposed to be the caliph not Abu Bakr depending on other signs, but we are sure that Ali himself took (moubaya) for Abu Abkr and was completely pleased with Muslims choice at the Saqifa, some shia scholars responded and said Ali was forced to choose Abu Bakr or at least came late to the Saqifa ( the place they gathered to choose a caliph), in return some other sunni scholars responded and said maybe Ali was late because the death of Mohammed was very hard on his wife Fatima and him of course, so he was busy comforting her.

I think we as ordinary Muslims shouldn't stick our noses in what happened between the companions, because we are pretty sure that those people were taught by the best teacher and leader Mohammed (PBUH).

and Allah said in the Quran

"That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. "

So a lot of Muslims in the world believe that we and Shias should put our differences aside and focus on our mutual beliefs instead of fighting each other.

I think its ridiculous to fight over who was supposed to be the caliph, not to mention that Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali were very close and such people consider leadership as a big responsibility, you should read Abu bakr's speech when he was announced as the new caliph.

when Mohammed died disbelief and dismay gripped the community of Muslims in Madinah, as you know Mohammed was their leader ,the guide and the bearer of Divine revelation through whom they had been brought from idolatry and barbarism into the way of God, some of them just couldn't realize that he died.

So Abu bakr addressed the people saying
"O people, verily whoever worshipped Muhammad, behold! Muhammad is indeed dead. But whoever worships God, behold! God is Alive and will never die."

And then he concluded with a verse from the Qur'an:
"And Muhammad is but a Messenger. Many Messengers have gone before him; if then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" [Al-Qur'an 3:144]

so he dealt with a very critical situation brilliantly.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2428 Feb 26, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
So the bedouin fought for the promised rewards of paradise?
Would he have fought if there was no reward?
It seems to me that the best way to get people to die for you is to tell them they will get virgins in paradise. This has nothing to do with pleasing God but everything to do with personal gain.
As I told you some fought for tribal issues and some fought for reputation, but Mohammed said that your intention should be pure for Allah and if it wasn't then you may burn in hell, but fighting for rewards of Allah is a different case, because obviously death for the sake of Allah is nothing compared to an eternal life in heaven, or in paradise for martyrs.

Paradise is much more than getting virgins, paradise is described in the Quran in details,
you say "This has nothing to do with pleasing God but everything to do with personal gain "
but in order to get what you called personal gain you should at first please God, and if you wanted to please god you should obey him in everything, and if you obeyed god in everything then you'll be a good man and fulfill the purpose of life.
but if you obeyed Al Shaitan, you'll be a very bad man and will not spread any justice and obviously wouldn't fulfill the purpose of life, and in the hereafter you'll probably go to hell, not to mention that Mohammed by revelations brought them from idolatry and barbarism into the way of God, so they only had 2 choices; its whether they stay in barbarism and idolatry or the way of god, I guess it was pretty clear to them that Islam is the true religion.

lets assume that anyone just came up and said there is a god and he promises you to have virgins in heaven if you died for the sake of him, would anybody believe him ??
in order to believe in heaven you should believe in Quran and before you believe in Quran you should believe that Mohammed himself is the prophet.

So they certainly believed Mohammed and everything the Quran says, otherwise it wouldn't make sense,do you think that Arabs were stupid ??
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Killing for a God whose only evidence is the word of just one man is not rational.
its whether that or killing for Al Uzza , some idols and for reputation or some Tribal issues.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
I've read the Quran. I'm not in trouble.
is it because of the setting of the sun in a muddy spring issue ?!! or something else ??
Thinking

London, UK

#2429 Feb 27, 2014
I will read the koran cover to cover once the illiterate mohammed does.
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
So the bedouin fought for the promised rewards of paradise?
Would he have fought if there was no reward?
It seems to me that the best way to get people to die for you is to tell them they will get virgins in paradise. This has nothing to do with pleasing God but everything to do with personal gain.
<quoted text>
Killing for a God whose only evidence is the word of just one man is not rational.
<quoted text>
I've read the Quran. I'm not in trouble.
<quoted text>
It didn't take long for the Caliphs to start living in vast palaces. Though I will admit there were a lot of rebellions against them.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2430 Feb 27, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you still haven't answered my question, do you think that men and women are the same ???
I think its clear for everybody that there are big differences between the 2 genders, what if your husband was exactly like you ?? no difference at all would you still be attracted to him ?? and now what if all men and women were exactly the same ??!!
I think if that happened humans will stop breeding, and within several centuries human beings will be history.
<quoted text>
Wow ..!!! you don't blame mythologies you only blame the hateful actions of sick people, after all we do agree on a lot of things.
However al Hur al Ein aren't in plastic, and as I was telling "igor trip" the intention of the fighter is the most important thing, because some people at the time of Mohammed used to fight in battles for reputation and some fought for spoils, and even some fought for tribal issues, and Mohammed (PBUH) made it clear that if your intention was not pure for Allah then your death will go for nothing and even may burn in hell, for instance during a battle back then some companions went to Mohammed and started to compliment a Muslim fighter as he was very brave and fought the enemies Bravely, Mohammed (PBUH) said that this man will burn in hell, one of the companions was curious because it didn't make sense to him that such a fighter will burn in hell and at the same time he believed that everything Mohammed say is the complete truth, so he decided to watch that man and follow him until that man was injured and unfortunately he committed suicide because he couldn't stand the pain, some scholars and other narrators say that this man didn't fight for the sake of Allah in the beginning.
the Authentic hadith from Sahih Bukhari
Ö
I may not be able to respond to to any comment in the next 2 or 3 days because I am travelling to Lebanon and probably will not have internet access.
Peace
What question? I do not remember you asking such a question and why do you need to ask such a question anyway? Is shows a definite misogynous outlook and I really though you (at least claimed) to be above that. So much for thought. It is fairly obvious that you have a dick and I donít. So does that make me worth half of you? Most dicks are quite minute when compared to say a pair of breasts. Letís see you continue humanity by baring a child? Just because women bare the children does not mean there is a difference in ability and worth. Misogyny is an outmoded and rejected concept here in the real world, just because religion is holding you back is no ones problem but your own.

What you donít seem to understand is that by interpretation you allow your religion to temper your actions in the way that best suites your personality.

The intention of the fighter is to kill, end of story, if you want to believe your god rewards indiscriminate murder with 72 virgins then go fooking kill your own faith and have a ball.

Here is one for you, will these two good muslims be rewarded with 72 newly minted plastic virgins http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26357007

What did Mohammed tell these murderers to do? They certainly believed they were horrifically mutilating the victim after driving a car into him then stabbing him to death for their god.

Have a good trip and donít forget to reply to this part of my post
Thinking

Poole, UK

#2432 Feb 27, 2014
Although the size gap may close a tad if you put them next to each other.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Most dicks are quite minute when compared to say a pair of breasts.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2433 Feb 27, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Although the size gap may close a tad if you put them next to each other.
<quoted text>
Ahh now, thatís a different thing, but speaking of volume itís only a tad

As they say, twice nothing isÖ

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2434 Feb 27, 2014
Ahh the great anonymous judge strikes again
Thinking

Poole, UK

#2435 Feb 27, 2014
Many religitards are scared by women's rights.
ChristineM wrote:
Ahh the great anonymous judge strikes again

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2436 Feb 27, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Many religitards are scared by women's rights.
<quoted text>
And their leftsÖ

As you say - misogyny is taught in the tanakh, babble and quran, so who am I to argue? Oh thatís right, I am I
Thinking

Poole, UK

#2437 Feb 27, 2014
1 Timothy 2:12
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
And their leftsÖ
As you say - misogyny is taught in the tanakh, babble and quran, so who am I to argue? Oh thatís right, I am I

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2438 Feb 27, 2014
Thinking wrote:
1 Timothy 2:12
<quoted text>
There are many such examples starting from genesis 2:20-22 and on
Mahmood

Markham, Canada

#2439 Feb 27, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
When Mohammed (PBUH) was sick and dying in Aisha's house, he told Abu bakr to be the Imam at the prayers in Al Madina mosque, Sunni scholars say that is a very clear sign that Mohammed wanted Abu Bakr to be the next leader for Muslims, Shia scholars say Ali was supposed to be the caliph not Abu Bakr depending on other signs, but we are sure that Ali himself took (moubaya) for Abu Abkr and was completely pleased with Muslims choice at the Saqifa, some shia scholars responded and said Ali was forced to choose Abu Bakr or at least came late to the Saqifa ( the place they gathered to choose a caliph), in return some other sunni scholars responded and said maybe Ali was late because the death of Mohammed was very hard on his wife Fatima and him of course, so he was busy comforting her.
I think we as ordinary Muslims shouldn't stick our noses in what happened between the companions, because we are pretty sure that those people were taught by the best teacher and leader Mohammed (PBUH).
and Allah said in the Quran
"That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. "
So a lot of Muslims in the world believe that we and Shias should put our differences aside and focus on our mutual beliefs instead of fighting each other.
I think its ridiculous to fight over who was supposed to be the caliph, not to mention that Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali were very close and such people consider leadership as a big responsibility, you should read Abu bakr's speech when he was announced as the new caliph.
when Mohammed died disbelief and dismay gripped the community of Muslims in Madinah, as you know Mohammed was their leader ,the guide and the bearer of Divine revelation through whom they had been brought from idolatry and barbarism into the way of God, some of them just couldn't realize that he died.
So Abu bakr addressed the people saying
"O people, verily whoever worshipped Muhammad, behold! Muhammad is indeed dead. But whoever worships God, behold! God is Alive and will never die."
And then he concluded with a verse from the Qur'an:
"And Muhammad is but a Messenger. Many Messengers have gone before him; if then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" [Al-Qur'an 3:144]
so he dealt with a very critical situation brilliantly.
Asking Abu Bakr to lead the prayers is a long shot away from appointing him a leader of the community. Shias claim that in Ghadir Khum, Mohd announced that whoever accept me as a wali, Ali is his wali, this too does not mean that he was nominated a successor no matter what the Shias claim. The simple fact remains that there is no historical records of Mohd announcing a leader for the muslims upon his demise.

If Islamic history is true, Ali Ibn Abi Taleb refused to acknowledge Abu Bakr as the Caliph. He did so under duress when that thug Omar broke into his home, and threatened him with his life. If Islamic history is believable, Mohd's daughter Fatima was deprived of her property left to her by her father in Fadak.

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