Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3146 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2366 Feb 24, 2014

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2367 Feb 24, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not aware of any elected council formed by Muhammad to run his growing empire.
Can you give us examples from early Islam where the people actually had a say rather than just being ruled over.
it is impossible to find a term like "Democracy" In Quran or Sunnah, because apparently it is an English word, however the concept of Democracy can be found in both Quran and Mohammed actions and sayings, for instance you'll find the word " Shura" mentioned in Quran and Shura can be translated into "consultation", The Quran and Muhammad encourage Muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.

Sunni Muslims and scholars believe that Islam requires all decisions made for the Muslim societies to be made by Shura of the Muslim community and believe this to be the basics for implementing Democracy.

It was common among Muhammad's companions to ask him if a certain advice was from God or from him. If it was from Muhammad, they felt free to give their opinion and Mohammed (PBUH) changed his decisions so many times, and such consultation happened all the time and specially in critical situations, it is a clear message for the Muslims to consult each other, every muslim could give his own opinion, even slaves had that right, for instance Mohammed consulted a slave (Salman al Faresi) in the battle of al Ahzab and Salman's opinion was a very important factor for the Muslims to win that battle, so political involvement and consultation can be seen clearly in Mohammed's biography.

when the prophet died all the Muslims gathered in Al Saqifa, to decide who is going to be the next caliph and finally they chose Abu Bakr, the early caliphates and Muslims applied this way (mubaya'a) until Ali bin Abi Taleb was killed Although he was elected to become the Caliph after Uthman but the caliphate was moved to Mou'ya and he started a new Era ( al Omawyoun).

thus the first four caliphs, or rulers of Islam, whom we call the Four Rightly-guided Caliphs, were chosen by Shura.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2368 Feb 24, 2014
Thinking wrote:
No. Aren't you too backward for this kind of century?
<quoted text>
maybe I am but you are the one who is wearing teenagers' clothes, what kind of music do you listen to ??? let me guess Justein beiber and miley cyrus ???

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2369 Feb 24, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It really does not matter what it is considered in narrow minded minds, It happens. I know several of several women who have become wealthy by servicing Muslim “travellers”, business men etc.
yes of course a lot of muslims Drink alcohol, commit murders, Rape, go to brothels and maybe more ...!! So what ???

I never claimed that Muslims are perfect or angels, and I made it clear from the beginning that I only clarify what Islam teaches not what Muslims do, I think we also agreed that there are no more proper Islamic countries.

that's interesting you know several of several women who have become wealthy by servicing Muslims ?!!! are you aware that we were talking about brothels ??!!!
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh so you feel that sharia law should be the new communism? Please advise how the government is going to pay for these free gifts? And the days when governments were involved in indoctrination has long gone in the western world, Although the Arab Spring seems to have your own.
no Sharia law isn't the new communism, because communism state that people should be partners in everything, in Islam people are partners in specific things (water, pasture and oil)
and there would still be a big room for people to have their businesses.

how would Sharia provide such things to people ?? the answer is simple; by applying the Islamic economical system, for instance in Jordan there are 25 billions as Deposits in the banks for the past 10 years and increasing, in Islam if you froze your money for a whole year you should pay 2.5%(Zakkah) for the poor and orphans, if you didnt want to pay Zakkah or Jizzya (for non muslims) you have to invest your money and investing money will feed the economy and would reduce unemployment, I don't know much you tell me , you are the one who holds a finance degree, you should take a look at the Islamic economical system and tell us what you think.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Abortion, You see this is yet another thing that you don’t understand, I am not interested in sharia terms and conditions for the validity or otherwise of abortion. I am completely satisfied with the abortion laws of the country I reside, for the most part they work as required and as best suites the voting majority. I do not really care what a bunch of scholars who are ignorant of the facts and are not qualified to make any such decision but want to chat like good all knowing deities and impose their “wisdom” based on 1600 year mythology.
Fair enough, but if you are not interested you shouldn't claim that Muslims don't care what doctors say and Just do whatever they want.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That does not make me a fan to please keep your specious guesses to yourself. And I see you have not bothered commenting on the similarity of Islam and the Borg.
I didn't comment on that because I didn't watch the whole movie, only some clips and I really don't get it.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Facts are not accusations and lack of facts means that what you have is supposition and faith. So you are easily side-tracked by women? I guess it must be an age thing. Sorry buddy, if you are unwilling to answer the questions of subject you bring up imposing restrictions on what I am allowed to speak about
I never meant to impose any restrictions of what you are allowed to speak about, my point was is that we should focus on a specific subject and other questions and subjects should be ignored or delayed until its turn comes, because obviously we cannot talk about science in the Quran and at the same time discuss punishments, women rights, democracy and hundreds of misconceptions, everybody will get confused and we will never be able to have a healthy and a beneficial conversation.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#2370 Feb 24, 2014
ashkarslave4ALLAH wrote:
"As for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared that he would darken their days with excessive insolence and unbelief." (Surat al-Kahf, 80)
The verse reveals that the boy’s parents were believers. In other words, in those days true religion existed. When Khidr (as) took the child’s life, it was Allah’s will, for He had written the child’s time and place of death in his destiny. Allah reminds people of this reality, as follows: "He created you from clay and then decreed a fixed term, and another fixed term is specified with Him…" (Surat al-An`am, 2). As the Qur’an also says, angels take the life of every human being:
If only you could see when the angels take back those who were unbelievers at their death, beating their faces and their backs [saying]: "Taste the punishment of the Burning!" (Surat al-Anfal, 50)
However, the angles are just a means, for in reality only Allah takes lives.
Allah willed for Khidr (as) to take this child’s life, but He could have done it through somebody else. The boy could have been killed in an accident, by a heart attack, or by falling and sustaining a deadly head injury. As Allah makes clear: "… When their specified time arrives, they cannot delay it for a single hour, nor can they bring it forward" (Surat an-Nahl, 61). In this case, Allah determined that the angels would be the invisible agents and that Khidr (as) would be the visible agent of this death, whereby Khidr (as) appeared to be taking the child’s life. In reality, Khidr (as) acts by the revelation he receives from Allah, and certainly does not act against His orders. Also, he cannot act by his own will unless Allah wills so. Allah chose him to be the means for this task.
Khidr (as) kills a child, about whom he has certain knowledge that his destiny is to become an unbeliever. He means to prevent the child from acting cruel towards his family and environment and drowning in a sea of sin, and thus takes preventive action.
We wanted their Lord to give them, in exchange, a purer son than him, one more compassionate.(Surat al-Kahf, 81)
hz hizir1Many people find it hard to see the reason and goodness behind a family member’s death, and death in general. However, as with everything else, there is much wisdom and goodness in this. One of these is stated to be "… giving them in exchange a purer son than him, one more compassionate."
hazem selawi wrote:
Well said man, Al Khader and Moses (PBUH) story is one of my favorite stories in the Quran, it holds so many lessons.
Hazem, give me a break! We have enough trouble understanding why Islam requires apostates to be killed, now you are saying killing an innocent boy for his future apostasy one of your "favorite stories in the Quran" and "holds so many lessons"? Lessons to do what? To kill another child? Or perhaps it would be better for you to classify the passage as Quranic verses that are "not humanly understandable" as Allah mentioned in Surah 3:7?

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2371 Feb 24, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Say what? Public places you say, go figure? Do you really think that the mind of a rapist is going to advertise the fact of his crimes by effectively saying “Hey look everyone, look what I am doing to this screaming woman?”
There you go again,“prohibited” do you actually think that makes any difference? The sick pervert is already breaking the law of the land, the rules of humanity, the mores of decency and morality and in some countries human rights. Do you really think a god book of mythology is going to make any difference?
continual spiritual preparation, Education and Islamic punishments will guarantee to take crime rates to the very minimum, besides you are talking like you guys solved every problem, as far as I know you have rapists, murders, child molesters, thieves, gangs, drugs addicts , alcoholics and the list goes on and on, if you say that sharia law wouldn't help then certainly light sentences for rapists wouldn't help either ...!!!
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
And so restricting your female citizens movements is going to stop a determined rapist? Actually most rapes are carried out by brother, father, husband, uncle, son, friend.etc so how does restricting a females rights make this go away?
where the hell do you get your statistics from ?!!! most rapes are carried out by brother, father, uncle and son ??!!!! I never heard of someone who raped his mother or sister maybe such rapes occur after taking drugs or drinking alcohol and in that case under sharia law Alcohol will be banned gradually until the whole country becomes free of alcohol and/or drugs, you are missing the big picture.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope we can agree that you have your faith that is personal to you, not to anyone else.
Honey, those cases happened, there can be no argument and no excuse. Juts because it’s not the way that you think Islam works makes no difference to the fact that it does not work the way you want.
even if my faith is personal to me that wouldn't give you the right to spread false ideas of Islam, you have to admit that you don't really know much about It and all you have is twisted conclusions based on what you see or hear about in the Media, nobody is willing in your neck of the woods to hear what the other part have to say in an open minded.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2372 Feb 24, 2014
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Hazem, give me a break! We have enough trouble understanding why Islam requires apostates to be killed, now you are saying killing an innocent boy for his future apostasy one of your "favorite stories in the Quran" and "holds so many lessons"? Lessons to do what? To kill another child? Or perhaps it would be better for you to classify the passage as Quranic verses that are "not humanly understandable" as Allah mentioned in Surah 3:7?
you should read the whole story, I think its telling us that God works things out in a mysterious way, so what appear to be bad its sometimes good, for instance when al Khader and Moses got on a ship al khader tore it open and Moses said Have you torn it open to drown its people? You have certainly done a grave thing."
[Al-Khidh r] said, "Did I not say that with me you would never be able to have patience?"

so you have to imagine that you are Moses (PBUH) and going on a trip with someone whom God had given mercy and had taught him from a [certain] knowledge, thus al Khadir isn't an ordinary man and we cannot do whatever he did.

Moses Also asked the same questions and felt that what Al khader is doing is wrong until he finally told him why he did all of what appeared to be bad, and turned out that all of the actions he did were for the benefit of those people.

read the whole story starting from 18:61 and pay attention to the Dialog between Moses and Al Khader.
http://quran.com/18

I think that story holds so many lessons like if you faced any kind of problems in your life, you should trust god and thank him for the good and the bad, because he is all knowing and certainly prepared a good plan for you.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2373 Feb 24, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So you cannot lie for your faith unless threatened?
Therefore it is still a lie.
Note that most true and provable facts are threats against your faith
you still don't get it, the rule is clear you can lie if you were about to die, and even then you cannot lie by changing what Islam says, you can only lie by acting like you left Islam like what Happened with Al Yasser family, Mohammed's Companions at the early time of Islam, Ammar bin Yaser who is the son was tortured with his elderly parents (Sumayyah bint Khayyat and Yasser) by a group of infidels, the mother was killed by Abu Jahl and was declared to be the firs martyr in Islam, the father was tortured to death also and the infidels wanted to kill the son as well unless he said that he doesn't believe in Mohammed or in Allah anymore, so he did say I don't believe in Mohammed nor in Allah anymore in order to live and because of the big shock seeing his own parents tortured and killed.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I heard a story long ago.
A guy walking through the dark streets of Belfast close to the boundary between catholic and protestant areas.
Suddenly a hand clasps him under the chin and he feels the shock of a cold steel blade pressed against his throat.
Close to his ear a muffled voice asks,“what is you religion?”
The victim thought what should I say? If I say catholic and the knife wielder turns out to be protestant then I am dead and if I say that I am protestant and he is catholic then I am dead.
Thinking fast “Insha'Allah” the man lies “I am Muslim”
And the man says “Yahweh smiles on me, I am the luckiest Jew in the world”
Lol, that isn't a real story its a very old joke.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#2374 Feb 24, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
you should read the whole story, I think its telling us that God works things out in a mysterious way, so what appear to be bad its sometimes good, for instance when al Khader and Moses got on a ship al khader tore it open and Moses said Have you torn it open to drown its people? You have certainly done a grave thing."
[Al-Khidh r] said, "Did I not say that with me you would never be able to have patience?"
so you have to imagine that you are Moses (PBUH) and going on a trip with someone whom God had given mercy and had taught him from a [certain] knowledge, thus al Khadir isn't an ordinary man and we cannot do whatever he did.
Moses Also asked the same questions and felt that what Al khader is doing is wrong until he finally told him why he did all of what appeared to be bad, and turned out that all of the actions he did were for the benefit of those people.
read the whole story starting from 18:61 and pay attention to the Dialog between Moses and Al Khader.
http://quran.com/18
I think that story holds so many lessons like if you faced any kind of problems in your life, you should trust god and thank him for the good and the bad, because he is all knowing and certainly prepared a good plan for you.
The only lesson here is Allah was at fault.

Let me ask you this:

If Allah has the power to predict the boy's future, does he not have the power to correct it rather than killing him before reach the point of no return?

If Allah's "prediction" makes any sense in this case, did his prediction take into account his "interference" to make his future a "non-existence" event?

Was that Allah's fault to give him birth to begin with, surely this story reveals the fatalistic nature of Islam, and that neither Allah nor the boy himself could prevent the boy from "disbelieving", or why would he had to be killed?

The only way that you can make someone accountable is when he actually committed the crime on his/her freewill.

(and don't you think Allah was a little "vague" in revealing this verse? what actually "would" the boy do that deserves such punishment? Disbelief? doesn't that confirm Islam's requirement to kill apostates? Do you support killing of apostates?)

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#2375 Feb 24, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
it is impossible to find a term like "Democracy" In Quran or Sunnah, because apparently it is an English word, however the concept of Democracy can be found in both Quran and Mohammed actions and sayings, for instance you'll find the word " Shura" mentioned in Quran and Shura can be translated into "consultation", The Quran and Muhammad encourage Muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
Sunni Muslims and scholars believe that Islam requires all decisions made for the Muslim societies to be made by Shura of the Muslim community and believe this to be the basics for implementing Democracy.
It was common among Muhammad's companions to ask him if a certain advice was from God or from him. If it was from Muhammad, they felt free to give their opinion and Mohammed (PBUH) changed his decisions so many times, and such consultation happened all the time and specially in critical situations, it is a clear message for the Muslims to consult each other, every muslim could give his own opinion, even slaves had that right, for instance Mohammed consulted a slave (Salman al Faresi) in the battle of al Ahzab and Salman's opinion was a very important factor for the Muslims to win that battle, so political involvement and consultation can be seen clearly in Mohammed's biography.
when the prophet died all the Muslims gathered in Al Saqifa, to decide who is going to be the next caliph and finally they chose Abu Bakr, the early caliphates and Muslims applied this way (mubaya'a) until Ali bin Abi Taleb was killed Although he was elected to become the Caliph after Uthman but the caliphate was moved to Mou'ya and he started a new Era ( al Omawyoun).
thus the first four caliphs, or rulers of Islam, whom we call the Four Rightly-guided Caliphs, were chosen by Shura.
But is there a proper structure for councils or is it just the leader allowing his best friends to air their views?

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2376 Feb 24, 2014
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
But is there a proper structure for councils or is it just the leader allowing his best friends to air their views?
at the early stages of Islam, Muslims used to gather in the mosque of Al Madina for the 5 prayers, and the mosque wasn't only for praying and worshiping but also a place to gather in and discuss political, economical ,social issues and even for training and to perform some sort of sports.

sometimes Muslims and companions of Mohammed in Al Madina used to hear the Athan (calling for prayer) at a different time of the prayers, so to them its a sign that there is something important and all Muslims should go to the mosque to see what is going on.



ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2377 Feb 24, 2014
the answer 4 the people who ask

If Allah has the power to predict the boy's future, does he not have the power to correct it rather than killing him before reach the point of no return?

Allah does not change a people’s condition unless they change what is in their hearts - Shaykh Ibn Baz
Question: What is the Tafsir (explanation/exegesis of the meanings of the Qur’an) of Allah’s Saying in Surah (Qur’anic chapter) Ar-Ra`d, Verily, Allâh will not change the (good) condition of a people as long as they do not change their state (of goodness) themselves (by committing sins and by being ungrateful and disobedient to Allâh). But when Allâh wills a people’s punishment, there can be no turning back of it, and they will find besides Him no protector?
Answer:
This holy Ayah (Qur’anic verse) indicates that Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) does not change - out of His Justice and Wisdom - the good state of a people into a bad one or vice versa, unless they change what is in themselves.
If they change their state of uprightness and integrity, Allah will change their state and overtake them with punishment, distresses, miseries, sterility, and other kinds of penalties, an exact recompense according to their evil crimes.
Allah (Glorified be He) says: And your Lord is not at all unjust to (His) slaves.
He (Glorified be He) may give them respite and gradually seize them with punishment in order that they might turn (to Allah’s Obedience); otherwise, He overtakes them.
Allah (Glorified be He) says:
So, when they forgot (the warning) with which they had been reminded, We opened for them the gates of every (pleasant) thing, until in the midst of their enjoyment in that which they were given, all of a sudden, We took them (in punishment), and lo! They were plunged into destruction with deep regrets and sorrows.
They become in despair of any good - may Allah save us from His Punishment and Resentment - and they may be put off until the Day of Resurrection where their punishment will be worse.
Allah (Glorified be He) says:
Consider not that Allâh is unaware of that which the Zâlimûn (polytheists, wrong-doers) do, but He gives them respite up to a Day when the eyes will stare in horror.
The meaning is that they are postponed and given respite until after death, when the punishment will be more grave and much worse.
On the other hand, they may be in distress committing evils and sins, then repent to Allah regretfully and obey Him, so Allah changes their distress, dissension, adversity and poverty into prosperity, union, and welfare due to their good deeds and repentance to Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He).
In another context, Allah says:
That is so because Allâh will never change a grace which He has bestowed on a people until they change what is in their own selves.
This Ayah clarifies that when they are in prosperity and grace and then change and commit sins, Allah will change their state. There is neither might nor power except with Allah! They may be given respite as mentioned before.
Likewise, if they commit sins or disbelieve or go astray, then repent and adhere to obeying Allah, Allah will change their bad state into a good one. Allah will turn their dissension, adversity and sterility into unity, prosperity, fertility, and all kinds of goodness.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2378 Feb 24, 2014
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
The only lesson here is Allah was at fault.
Let me ask you this:
If Allah has the power to predict the boy's future, does he not have the power to correct it rather than killing him before reach the point of no return?
If Allah's "prediction" makes any sense in this case, did his prediction take into account his "interference" to make his future a "non-existence" event?
Was that Allah's fault to give him birth to begin with, surely this story reveals the fatalistic nature of Islam, "
I think we can both agree that God is all seeing, all hearing and the most wise, you are missing the point here, it doesn't matter if the kid was killed or not, this incident refers to death, you are not asking the right questions...!! because according to your logic why do children die ?? why some babies don't even make it to life and die during childbirth ?? why is there Bone cancer ??? and the most important question why didn't your god find any other way to forgive the whole world sins rather than killing his own son who begged to stay alive and hesitated according to mark Gospel ???!!

and for your last statement of one can only be accountable is when he/she actually commit crime on his/her freewill; I totally agree with that , however that specific Child would be a mercy for his own parents as in the hereafter inchalla (God willing) he is going to heaven and would wait for his own parents thus god made him a cause for the parents to enter heaven not to mention that if that kid got survived and stayed Alive god knows that he is not going to be a good man, you are a christian and you should agree with me that God knows the uncovered and the future and that would still have nothing to do with the free will, for instance god knows that you may commit a sin in the future but you still would do that sin with your complete free will.
Rusty Tin Can wrote:
<quoted text>
(and don't you think Allah was a little "vague" in revealing this verse? what actually "would" the boy do that deserves such punishment? Disbelief? doesn't that confirm Islam's requirement to kill apostates? Do you support killing of apostates?)
actually this verse has nothing to do with the punishment of apostasy , the apostasy punishment is extracted from other Hadiths and Quranic verses, Do I support killing apostates ??

of course I do, I accept everything in Islam, however the apostasy issue is widely misunderstood by non-Muslims and also some Muslims, in order to apply apostasy punishment you should at first apply the proper sharia Law (depending on the method of Mohammed and his closest companions, the four rightly guided caliphs), and Sharia law has a very wide scope including an entire Economical, Judicial, social and political systems, for instance under Sharia law the government should provide Oil, water and shelter to all civilians free of charge, as in Islam such natural resources are blesses from god to all people, thus all people should be partners in these resources.

second the Islamic government is responsible for applying these punishments, its not like lets find the apostate and kill him wherever we find him.

third the one who is accused of apostasy will be brought to a judge to find out why he decided to apostate, because at so many cases through history some Muslims committed apostasy because of the lack of knowledge or ignorance in Islam, and such people were brought to big mosques for debating with scholars in front of people.

so each case has its special circumstances, but Umar Bin Al Khattab the second caliph used different punishments for apostates during his caliphate, like what is called Westernization for a specific period of time ( sending the apostate for a strange country in order for him to see how non Muslims live, and may change his mind and go back to Islam), he also tried prison in some cases and lashing, and in other cases debating and discussing.
ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2379 Feb 24, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we can both agree that God is all seeing, all hearing and the most wise, you are missing the point here, it doesn't matter if the kid was killed or not, this incident refers to death, you are not asking the right questions...!! because according to your logic why do children die ?? why some babies don't even make it to life and die during childbirth ?? why is there Bone cancer ??? and the most important question why didn't your god find any other way to forgive the whole world sins rather than killing his own son who begged to stay alive and hesitated according to mark Gospel ???!!
and for your last statement of one can only be accountable is when he/she actually commit crime on his/her freewill; I totally agree with that , however that specific Child would be a mercy for his own parents as in the hereafter inchalla (God willing) he is going to heaven and would wait for his own parents thus god made him a cause for the parents to enter heaven not to mention that if that kid got survived and stayed Alive god knows that he is not going to be a good man, you are a christian and you should agree with me that God knows the uncovered and the future and that would still have nothing to do with the free will, for instance god knows that you may commit a sin in the future but you still would do that sin with your complete free will.
<quoted text>
actually this verse has nothing to do with the punishment of apostasy , the apostasy punishment is extracted from other Hadiths and Quranic verses, Do I support killing apostates ??
of course I do, I accept everything in Islam, however the apostasy issue is widely misunderstood by non-Muslims and also some Muslims, in order to apply apostasy punishment you should at first apply the proper sharia Law (depending on the method of Mohammed and his closest companions, the four rightly guided caliphs), and Sharia law has a very wide scope including an entire Economical, Judicial, social and political systems, for instance under Sharia law the government should provide Oil, water and shelter to all civilians free of charge, as in Islam such natural resources are blesses from god to all people, thus all people should be partners in these resources.
second the Islamic government is responsible for applying these punishments, its not like lets find the apostate and kill him wherever we find him.
third the one who is accused of apostasy will be brought to a judge to find out why he decided to apostate, because at so many cases through history some Muslims committed apostasy because of the lack of knowledge or ignorance in Islam, and such people were brought to big mosques for debating with scholars in front of people.
so each case has its special circumstances, but Umar Bin Al Khattab the second caliph used different punishments for apostates during his caliphate, like what is called Westernization for a specific period of time ( sending the apostate for a strange country in order for him to see how non Muslims live, and may change his mind and go back to Islam), he also tried prison in some cases and lashing, and in other cases debating and discussing.
well said

jazak ALLAH khaer
ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2380 Feb 24, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we can both agree that God is all seeing, all hearing and the most wise, you are missing the point here, it doesn't matter if the kid was killed or not, this incident refers to death, you are not asking the right questions...!! because according to your logic why do children die ?? why some babies don't even make it to life and die during childbirth ?? why is there Bone cancer ??? and the most important question why didn't your god find any other way to forgive the whole world sins rather than killing his own son who begged to stay alive and hesitated according to mark Gospel ???!!
you forget 2 write why GOD sends worst disasters on Rusty country China?

why we hear most days biggest tornadoes on america?

and the most important question why didn't Rusty god find any other way to forgive the whole world sins rather than punishing and killing his own slaves ??????!!!!

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2381 Feb 24, 2014
ashkarslave4ALLAH wrote:
<quoted text>well said
jazak ALLAH khaer
Hello there brother , how things are going in Yemen ??
ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2382 Feb 24, 2014
4 the peoplw who ask
"favorite stories in the Quran" and "holds so many lessons"? Lessons to do what? To kill another child?
here is the reason
ALLAH want 2 learn prophet moses pbuh
One day, Moses delivered such an impressive sermon that all who heard it were deeply moved. Someone in the congregation asked: "0 Messenger of Allah, is there another man on earth more learned than you?" Moses replied: "No!", believing so, as Allah had given him the power of miracles and honored him with the Torah.
However, Allah revealed to Moses that no man could know all there is to know, nor would one messenger alone be the custodian of all knowledge. There would always be another who knew what others did not. Moses asked Allah: "0 Allah, where is this man? I would like to meet him and learn from him." He also asked for a sign to this person's identity.
Allah instructed him to take a live fish in a water-filled vessel. Where the fish disappeared, he would find the man he sought. Moses set out on his journey, accompanied by a young man who carried the vessel with the fish. They reached a place where two rivers met and decided to rest there. Instantly, Moses fell asleep.
Moses Finds Al-Khidr
While he was asleep, his companion saw the fish wriggle out of the vessel into the river and swim away. However, he forgot to relate this incident to Moses. When he awoke, they continued their journey until they were exhausted and hungry. Moses asked for his morning meal. Only then did his companion recall that the fish they had brought with them had gotten away. Hearing this, Moses exclaimed:'This is exactly what we are seeking!" They hurriedly retraced their steps to the place where the rivers met and where the fish had jumped out. There they found a man, his face partly covered with a hood. His bearing showed he was a saintly man. He was Al-Khidr, the guide.
Moses Finds Al-Khidr - Qur'anic
Allah the Almighty narrated: And (remember) when Moses said to his boy-servant: "I will not give up (traveling) until I reach the junction of the two seas or (until) I spend years and years in traveling."
But when they reached the junction of the two seas, they forgot their fish, and it took its way throught the sea as in a tunnel. So when they had passed further on (beyond that fixed place), Moses said to his boy-servant: "Bring us our morning meal; truly, we have suffered much fatigue in this, our journey."
He said: "Do you remember when we betook ourselves to the ock? I indeed forgot the fish, none but Satan made me forget to remember it. It took its course into the sea in a strange (way)!"
(Moses) said: "That is what we have been seeking." So they went back retracing their footsteps. Then they found one of Our slaves, unto whom We had bestowed mercy from Us, and whom We had taught knowledge from Us. Surah 18: 60-65
Moses Speaks to Al-Khidr
Moses said to him (Khidr) "May I follow you so that you teach me something of that knowledge (guidance and true path) which you have been taught (by Allah)?"
He (Khidr) said: "Verily! You will not be able to have patience with me! And how can you have patience about a thing which you know not?"
ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2383 Feb 24, 2014
Moses said: "If Allah will, you will find me patient, and I will not disobey you in aught."
He (Khidr) said: "Then, if you follow me, ask me not about anything till I myself mention it to you.
So they both proceeded, till, when they were in the ship, he (Khidr) scuttled it. Moses said: "Have you scuttled it in order to drown its people? Verily, you have done Imra - a Munkar (evil, bad, dreadful) thing."
He (Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you, that you would not be able to have patience with me?"
(Moses) said: "Call me not to account for what I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my affair (with you)."
Then they both proceeded, till they met a boy, he (Khidr) killed him. Moses said: "Have you killed an innocent person who had killed none? Verily, you have done Nukra a great Munkar (prohibited, evil, dreadful) thing!"
(Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?"
(Moses) said: "If I ask you anything after this, keep me not in your company, you have received an excuse from me."
Then they both proceeded, till, when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them. Then they found therein a wall about to collapse and he (Khidr) set it up straight.(Moses) said: "If you had wished, surely you could have taken wages for it!"
(Khidr) said: "This is the parting between me and you. I will tell you the interpretation of (those) things over which you were unable to hold patience.
'As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working in the sea. So I wished to make a defective damage in it, as there was a king after them who seized every ship by force.
"And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. So we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in righteousness and near to mercy.
"And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience. Surah 18: 60-82
Moses Seeks Al-Khidr - Hadith
ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2384 Feb 24, 2014
Moses Seeks Al-Khidr - Hadith
The story of Moses and Al-Khidr is also told in a hadith. Said Ibn Jubair said: "I said to Ibn Abbas,'Nauf Al-Bukah claims that Moses, the companion of Al-Khidr, was not Moses (the prophet) of the children of Israel, but some other Moses.' Ibn Abbas said:'Allah's enemy (i.e. Nauf) has told a lie. Ubai Ibn Kab told us that the Prophet said: Once Moses stood up and addressed Bani Israel. He was asked who was the most learned man amongst the people. He said: "I." Allah admonished him as he did not attribute absolute knowledge to Him (Allah). So, Allah said to him:'Yes, at the junction of the two seas there is a slave of Mine who is more learned than you." Moses said: "0 my Lord! How can I meet him?" Allah said: "Take a fish and put it in a large basket and you will find him at the place where you will lose the fish."
Moses took a fish and put it in a basket and proceeded along with his (servant) boy, Joshua (Yusha Ibn Nun), till they reached the rock where they laid their heads (i.e. lay down). Moses slept, and the fish, moving out of the basket, fell into the sea. It took its way into the sea (straight) as in a tunnel. Allah stopped the flow of water over the fish and it became like an arch (the Prophet pointed out this arch with his hands). They traveled the rest of the night, and the next day Moses said to his boy (servant): "Give us our food, for indeed, we have suffered much fatigue in this journey of ours." Moses did not feel tired till he crossed that place which Allah had ordered him to seek after. His boy (servant) said to him: "Do you know that when we were sitting near that rock, I forgot the fish, and none but Satan caused me to forget to tell (you) about it, and it took its course into the sea in an amazing way?" So there was a path for the fish and that astonished them. Moses said:'That was what we were seeking after."
So both of them retraced their footsteps till they reached the rock. There they saw a man lying covered with a garment.
Moses Talks to Al-Khidr
Moses greeted him, and he replied saying: "How do people greet each other in your land?" Moses said: "I am Moses."
The man asked: "Moses of Bani Israel?" Moses said:'Yes, I have come to you so that you may teach me from those things which Allah has taught you." He said: "0 Moses! I have some of the knowledge of Allah which Allah has taught me and which you do not know, while you have some of the knowledge of Allah which Allah has taught you and which I do not know." Moses asked: "May I follow you?" He said: "But you will not be able to remain patient with me, for how can you be patient about things which you will not be able to understand?" Moses said:'You will find me, if Allah so will, truly patient, and I will not disobey you in aught."
ashkarslave4ALLA H

Yemen

#2385 Feb 24, 2014
So both of them set out walking along the sea-shore. A boat passed by them, and they asked the crew of the boat to take them on board. The crew recognized Al-Khidr, so they took them on board without fare. When they were on board the boat, a sparrow came and stood on the edge of the boat and dipped its beak once or twice into the sea. Al-Khidr said to Moses: "0 Moses! My knowledge and your knowledge have not decreased Allah's knowledge except as much as this sparrow has decreased the water of the sea with its beak." Then suddenly Al-Khidr took an adze and pulled up a plank, and Moses did not notice it till he had pulled up a plank with the adze. Moses said to him: "What have you done? They took us on board charging us nothing; yet you have intentionally made a hole in their boat so as to drown its passengers. Verily, you have done a dreadful thing." AlKhidr replied: "Did I not tell you that you would not be able to remain patient with me?" Moses replied: "Do not blame me for what I have forgotten, and do not be hard upon me for my fault." So the first excuse of Moses was that he had forgotten.
When they had left the sea, they passed by a boy playing with other boys. Al-Khidr took hold of the boy's head and plucked it with his hand like this.(Sufyan, the sub-narrator gestured with his fingertips as if he were plucking some fruit.) Moses said to him: "Have you killed an innocent person who has not killed any person? You have really done a horrible thing." Al-Khidr said: "Did I not tell you that you could not remain patient with me?" Moses said: "If I ask you about anything after this, don't accompany me. You have received an excuse from me."
Then both of them went on till they came to some people of a village, and they asked its inhabitants for food but they refused to entertain them as guests. Then they saw therein a wall which was just going to collapse and Al Khidr repaired it just by touching it with his hands.(Sufyan, the subnarrator, gestured with his hands, illustrating how Al-Khidr passed his hands over the wall upwards.) Moses said: "These are the people whom we have called on, but they neither gave us food, nor entertained us as guests, yet you have repaired their wall. If you had wished, you could have taken wages for it."
Al-Khidr said: "This is the parting between you and me, and I shall tell you the explanation of those things on which you could not remain patient."
The Prophet added: "We wish that Moses could have remained patient by virtue of which Allah might have told us more about their story." (Sufyan, the sub-narrator, said that the Prophet said: "May Allah bestow His Mercy on Moses! If he had remained patient, we would have been told further about their case.")'

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