Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedoph...

Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

There are 3146 comments on the Examiner.com story from Sep 14, 2013, titled Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Examiner.com.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2242 Feb 9, 2014
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
Your claim that Mohammad allowed some of his companions to write down hadiths is a fabrication and it examplifies dishonety. What is the source of such information? You keep referring to hadiths as a science knowing full well that it is not. To understand the background on the development of hadith literature, one must sift the history of Islam from 250 years after the lifetime of Mohammad...
you need to study the history of Hadith , you cannot expect Bukhari and Muslim to gather 600,000 Hadiths out of nothing and write it down, they needed to start investigating on what they already have, Bukhari and Muslim among other scholars back Then like Abu Dawood and others played a huge Rule to categorize Hadiths , but that certainly doesn't mean they searched for people and wrote down whatever people told them they heard, as The process of recording the Hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH), went through several stages, starting from the era of the Companions where some of them wrote what they heard from the Prophet . So, the companions were the first people to write down the Hadeeth, but its likely nothing of what they wrote reached us. During the caliphate of Umar ibn Abdul Azeez he wrote for a group of scholars to collect the Hadeeth of the Prophet , but when they collected the Hadiths they were mixed with the sayings of the Companions and Fatawas of the Followers (generation following the Companions).

The matter remained like that until some scholars suggested collecting the Hadith of the Prophet , in a different manner. Therefore, Ubaydullaah ibn Moosa authored a Musnad (the Chain of narrators), and so did Musaddad AlBasri, Asad ibn Moosa, and Nu‘aym ibn Hammaad Al-Khuzaa‘i so The method of these Musnads was that the Hadiths of each Companion were grouped separately. Later, scholars of religious sciences followed the same method of those scholars.

Imam Bukhari was the first scholar to collect and investigate to find Sahih Hadiths , as you stated before he found or categorized; I am not sure maybe 4000 or 6000 Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths, that is what he was aiming for and that's why he added the most important Rules like Al Jarh wa Al tadil to the science of Hadith.

the compiling of Hadith was taken through different stages, Allow me my friend to ask you a question, Dont you think that there are Some Hadiths that may make Muslims uncomfortable ?? or somehow embarrassed ?? I am talking about Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths not what was categorized as fabricated, weak or mawdoo.

Don't you think that Muslims when they were in control and strong could Just hide some of these Hadiths or fabricate them into other stories ?? for instance Sunnah or hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH) which state that he Married Zayd's (his ex-adopted son) wife after he made him divorce her , or "christinM" favorite Hadith that states Mohammed thumbed Aisha in the chest, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was a victim of a black magic performed by Jewish lady at the last days of his life, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was afraid the first time he got revelations and thought he was obsessed by some kind of a Demon (Jin)??
Why couldn't they Just hide such Hadiths ???

I think I may answer this question by one word which is "Accuracy", and such Hadiths prove that the message of Islam was preserved perfectly.

I am not saying that these Hadiths or actions of Mohammed are not justified, and with no doubt can be explained easily, the point is if Hadiths were fabricated as you claim, its noway Muslims would like to show their hero and Role model (Mohammed ) as a man who was a victim of a Black magic , we would fabricate another story and make Mohammed die in a battle field instead in Aisha's lap , We would also say Mohammed got revelations since he was a kid, if we wanted to fabricate Hadiths we would change a lot of things.

Think of that Question, and I'll be waiting to hear from you.
Mahmood

Brampton, Canada

#2243 Feb 10, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you need to study the history of Hadith , you cannot expect Bukhari and Muslim to gather 600,000 Hadiths out of nothing and write it down, they needed to start investigating on what they already have, Bukhari and Muslim among other scholars back Then like Abu Dawood and others played a huge Rule to categorize Hadiths , but that certainly doesn't mean they searched for people and wrote down whatever people told them they heard, as The process of recording the Hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH), went through several stages, starting from the era of the Companions where some of them wrote what they heard from the Prophet . So, the companions were the first people to write down the Hadeeth, but its likely nothing of what they wrote reached us. During the caliphate of Umar ibn Abdul Azeez he wrote for a group of scholars to collect the Hadeeth of the Prophet , but when they collected the Hadiths they were mixed with the sayings of the Companions and Fatawas of the Followers (generation following the Companions).
The matter remained like that until some scholars suggested collecting the Hadith of the Prophet , in a different manner. Therefore, Ubaydullaah ibn Moosa authored a Musnad (the Chain of narrators), and so did Musaddad AlBasri, Asad ibn Moosa, and Nu‘aym ibn Hammaad Al-Khuzaa‘i so The method of these Musnads was that the Hadiths of each Companion were grouped separately. Later, scholars of religious sciences followed the same method of those scholars.
Imam Bukhari was the first scholar to collect and investigate to find Sahih Hadiths , as you stated before he found or categorized; I am not sure maybe 4000 or 6000 Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths, that is what he was aiming for and that's why he added the most important Rules like Al Jarh wa Al tadil to the science of Hadith.
the compiling of Hadith was taken through different stages, Allow me my friend to ask you a question, Dont you think that there are Some Hadiths that may make Muslims uncomfortable ?? or somehow embarrassed ?? I am talking about Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths not what was categorized as fabricated, weak or mawdoo.
Don't you think that Muslims when they were in control and strong could Just hide some of these Hadiths or fabricate them into other stories ?? for instance Sunnah or hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH) which state that he Married Zayd's (his ex-adopted son) wife after he made him divorce her , or "christinM" favorite Hadith that states Mohammed thumbed Aisha in the chest, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was a victim of a black magic performed by Jewish lady at the last days of his life, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was afraid the first time he got revelations and thought he was obsessed by some kind of a Demon (Jin)??
Why couldn't they Just hide such Hadiths ???
I think I may answer this question by one word which is "Accuracy", and such Hadiths prove that the message of Islam was preserved perfectly.
I am not saying that these Hadiths or actions of Mohammed are not justified, and with no doubt can be explained easily, the point is if Hadiths were fabricated as you claim, its noway Muslims would like to show their hero and Role model (Mohammed ) as a man who was a victim of a Black magic , we would fabricate another story and make Mohammed die in a battle field instead in Aisha's lap , We would also say Mohammed got revelations since he was a kid, if we wanted to fabricate Hadiths we would change a lot of things.
Think of that Question, and I'll be waiting to hear from you.
Many musnads ascribed to early authors were compiled long after them. Great majority of the hadithss were most likely products of the religious, historical, & social conditions prevaltent during the first two centuries of Islam.

Continued:
Mahmood

Brampton, Canada

#2244 Feb 10, 2014
Continued:

There was lapse of over two centuries from the time Mohammad died to the time when most of the hadiths were compiled. This time factor alone is enough to question the authenticity of the hadtihs. Human memories fade with the passage of time. How can one verify an unwritten text 250 years later. Compilation of hadiths were not made from recorded documents.

Even the most ``authentic`books are not free narratives wrongly attributed to Mohammad. All ahadith have been written through chains of narrators. These chains comprise of several links of reporters, in many instances, more than 10. When our scholars sit down to check on a reported hadith, their research begins and ends at one point. That is whether the narrators are reliable or not. People named in a particular hadith, were they real or fictitious, when were they born, why were they born, where did a particular storyteller live, when did he die, what was his temperament, how good was his memory, was his beard long enough, was he the son of a bondwoman, or his mother was divorced. One was caught listening to music. Another one was seen drinking date-wine. He was seen drinking water with his left hand, and another was conducting ablution with the right hand, etc.

While Sunnis consider Bukhari and Muslim ahadith as the most authentic books, Shias reject that notion and consider Nehjul Balagha and Al-Kafi as the most trustworthy sources.

The science of asma ar-rajal is not a science at all. It is mere conjecture. All it deals with is whether a particular hadith has one narrator or multiple, does the chain have any weak links, do any of the reporters believe in a different school of thought, and so on. Different scholars and sects and even the masses tend to accept only those ahadith that fit into their dogmas and reject those that are otherwise.

I`ll tell you what. Go and try to find details on how your grandfather`s grandfather lived and what he said & see how easy that is.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2245 Feb 11, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
they used to teach us in elementary school that our country Jordan is considered to be a semi democratic country, I think the term semi-democratic means by away or another dictatorship...!!
<quoted text>
Do people still use this word "Savvy" ?
I am a savvier indeed.
<quoted text>
When I mentioned the right of voting I was referring to Muslim women participating in politics, and since the beginning of the message of Islam Moh…
<quoted text>
The only thing I know about him is that he is a war criminal, and that is the only thing I need to know.
<quoted text>
If you meant "by half of the reward" the right of inheritance then I am afraid the right of inheritance should never be considered as a reward otherwise everybody would wait for a relative to die to get a reward like son would wait his father or mother to die in order to get a reward ..!!!
that would be a bit harsh and completely inconsiderate, anyways its not always the male gets as twice as the female ; there are different cases and circumstances to be taken in consideration.
if you meant by "half of the reward" from Allah for good deeds then its non sense because I remember that I told you Women would take more rewards for paying money or taking care of her family as long as she did that by her complete free will.
I don't know why you got insulted when I posted "its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family or at least help" , I had to add "at least help" if I only said its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family ; it would appear like I excluded your husband from the whole image, and if I excluded your husband it would be like I disrespected him in away or another and spoke behind his back at the same time, I think the good intention behind the word "at least help" is obvious, I apparently never intended to reduce the important role your are doing in taking care of your family.
So women (and men) in your country have no vote then even though you said otherwise?

Yes. and methinks and gobbledygook and umbrage and many more, olds words can be so rich in meaning when used in the correct way.

Participating in politics is not voting, so you now change your story after being pulled up on it. Utopia is a wonderful place is it not? And story books are so good at depicting Utopian ideas. So why are women in Mosques forced to sit separate from men? I know what you are going to say, to protect them, so why do women need protection from men even in mosques? Is this perfect system utopia? It may be the misogynist’s dream of utopia.

You will also note that this perfect religious system of yours engenders and enfranchise such corruption. You have allowed the situation to happen. What you appear to be saying is that if the Muslim countries were not Muslim then women could vote but because they are Muslim countries then women (and in most cases men) cannot vote. Thank you for admitting that women cannot (generally) vote in Muslim countries. You took a convoluted way around buy you got there in the end.

Well your deliberate ignorance is your affair but you really should not be surprised when you mention bush in a question and then cannot understand the response

When I say half of the reward I mean Quran 4:11 and Quran 2:282 and Quran 2:228 and Quran 5:6 and Quran 24:31 and Quran 2:223 and Quran 4:24 and Quran 33:50 and any number of hadiths.

Honey, you insult me with your indifference and ignorance of what you said, and your ignorance of a woman’s place in this world, and with your incredulity, that you don’t even pretend to understand. And the thing is you will never be able to understand why you insulted me because your god book has taught you too well, unfortunately it has taught you a load of BS that is irrelevant in the modern world.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2248 Feb 11, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Most countries get the government they deserve. People need to improve themselves from the bottom up at the same time as questioning the system, not instead of.
<quoted text>
I find it hilarious that he is promoting Islam as the perfect system and yet complaining bitterly that that system has provided not allows him to vote for his muslim dictatorship.

And in his next post he threatens to spread his “perfect” system all over the western world

This is fundamentalism at it’s most fundamental, forget the American godbots like buttcrack, riversideroughneck and co. What we have here is the real thing that would show those christian pissants the true meaning of spittle flecked ranting.

.

I know you are on higher ground but it sounds dismal down there. Not too badly effected are you?

I watched Cammeron on Breakfast doing the hypocritical “help each other” and “we are doing all we can”- I am sure the effects of climate change have been researched since the 50s, that’s 60 years to get their act together. If ordinary people used the good old fire fighting method to run there businesses what sort of state would we be in?

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2250 Feb 11, 2014
Thinking wrote:
haram salami is just a muppet.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, "my" dog walking fields in front of Disraeli's manor are being invaded by rugby and football teams who have lost the use of their usual fields. It's manageable in the week, but Sunday is a bit of scrum(!). But apart from that, everything is fine for us and I love seeing the frequent rainbows.
I agree with your comment regarding the lack of planning.
One of the plans I heard was to let beavers build upstream. This will slow the rate that water flows off the hills. It is cheaper to compensate farmers for flooded uphill fields than it is to fix problems further down stream. If controlled flooding of fields is well understood, it can be part of the farmer's business model. We will need to do a whole bunch of these things to add some more resilience into our systems.
<quoted text>
All funnymentalist are muppets but this guy is a real miss piggy – I’m right because allah says I’m right - Heeeyyyaaaaaa

Good to hear that those effected by the flooding are still playing games and getting their exercise?

Yup I heard that too and compromising river banks upstream to the same effect.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2252 Feb 11, 2014
Thinking wrote:
haram salami seems pretty easy to anger. I bet he hasn't even bought every "jesus and mo" book yet.
Lots of people want to move to England, so we will need to stay on top of the infrastructure.
<quoted text>
http://www.jesusandmo.net/

I may be a bit scant in replying over the next few days, we have a cram on.

I can’t wait to get out, if only for the weather.
Thinking

Northampton, UK

#2253 Feb 11, 2014
Better to be busy than not... see you on the other side.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
I may be a bit scant in replying over the next few days, we have a cram on.
I can’t wait to get out, if only for the weather.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2254 Feb 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it hilarious that he is promoting Islam as the perfect system and yet complaining bitterly that that system has provided not allows him to vote for his muslim dictatorship.
And in his next post he threatens to spread his “perfect” system all over the western world
This is fundamentalism at it’s most fundamental, forget the American godbots like buttcrack, riversideroughneck and co. What we have here is the real thing that would show those christian pissants the true meaning of spittle flecked ranting.
What part exactly of" we are not applying Sharia Law anymore" you didn't get ??
you cannot make a comparison between Muslim and non Muslim countries in the present days ...!!! our dictators are applying the western laws not Sharia Laws , so when you go to your Google scholar and try to look up some numbers and statistics all what you get is the fruits of the screwed man made laws you gave us, applied forcefully on the public Muslims by the very same dictators you put in our countries.

thus either you nor thinking cannot come up and say the majority of Muslims are living in poverty, that would be irrelevant and has nothing to do with our discussion since we are not applying the Islamic economical system ...!!!

you cannot come up and say men or women cannot vote in Muslim countries because again that would be the fault of man made laws particularly the laws we applied after the British colonialism period.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2255 Feb 12, 2014
Mahmood wrote:
Continued:
There was lapse of over two centuries from the time Mohammad died to the time when most of the hadiths were compiled. This time factor alone is enough to question the authenticity of the hadtihs. Human memories fade with the passage of time. How can one verify an unwritten text 250 years later. Compilation of hadiths were not made from recorded documents.
Even the most ``authentic`books are not free narratives wrongly attributed to Mohammad. All ahadith have been written through chains of narrators. These chains comprise of several links of reporters, in many instances, more than 10. When our scholars sit down to check on a reported hadith, their research begins and ends at one point. That is whether the narrators are reliable or not. People named in a particular hadith, were they real or fictitious, when were they born, why were they born, where did a particular storyteller live, when did he die, what was his temperament, how good was his memory, was his beard long enough, was he the son of a bondwoman, or his mother was divorced. One was caught listening to music. Another one was seen drinking date-wine. He was seen drinking water with his left hand, and another was conducting ablution with the right hand, etc.
While Sunnis consider Bukhari and Muslim ahadith as the most authentic books, Shias reject that notion and consider Nehjul Balagha and Al-Kafi as the most trustworthy sources.
The science of asma ar-rajal is not a science at all. It is mere conjecture. All it deals with is whether a particular hadith has one narrator or multiple, does the chain have any weak links, do any of the reporters believe in a different school of thought, and so on. Different scholars and sects and even the masses tend to accept only those ahadith that fit into their dogmas and reject those that are otherwise.
I`ll tell you what. Go and try to find details on how your grandfather`s grandfather lived and what he said & see how easy that is.
you still haven't answered my question , if early Muslims were fabricating hadiths anyways , why didn't they hide or at least fabricate the hadiths which may seem embarrassing to us??!

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2256 Feb 12, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Better to be busy than not... see you on the other side.
<quoted text>
Coming to the end of a contract at then end of a month and I want the work complete within a week so we can concentrate on other stuff. To top that I’ve got 3 people off with man flu,(one of them is a woman, go figure)

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2257 Feb 12, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
What part exactly of" we are not applying Sharia Law anymore" you didn't get ??
you cannot make a comparison between Muslim and non Muslim countries in the present days ...!!! our dictators are applying the western laws not Sharia Laws , so when you go to your Google scholar and try to look up some numbers and statistics all what you get is the fruits of the screwed man made laws you gave us, applied forcefully on the public Muslims by the very same dictators you put in our countries.
thus either you nor thinking cannot come up and say the majority of Muslims are living in poverty, that would be irrelevant and has nothing to do with our discussion since we are not applying the Islamic economical system ...!!!
you cannot come up and say men or women cannot vote in Muslim countries because again that would be the fault of man made laws particularly the laws we applied after the British colonialism period.
What aspect of who gives a toss about the politics in you necks of the woods don’t you understand?

Yes I can make such a comparison because we are all human beings. If you cannot agree with yet accept what has become the norm in your country then the problem is partially yours so don’t go whinging about it, you are always free to go somewhere more to your liking. Oh wait a moment, I’m not sure if this is correct, are you free to move to another Muslim country or are man made laws restricting you? You know I am completely free to move where I want and I too am bound by the man made laws of the country I live.

Yes and you of course would really love it if those sharia laws were “IMPOSED” on the rest of the world. Honey imposed government under your terms is not democracy but dictatorship

Are you saying that sharia law is not man made? Note man made laws are made by man and you (believe it or not) are a man not an incubi of a bronze age myth and dark age ignorance who were incidentally man made concepts.

I have told you before, you don’t like it then move to a democratic country and stop whinging about what the adherence to out dated Muslim traditions have handed you. Your government and others are trying to move into the modern global village while retaining as much as possible of tradition. It is a very delicate balancing act that boils down to how much change will people of any one country accept while trying to align itself with the rest of the world. You either join in are go under, it seems that we now know that you would prefer the dark age isolationism than the modern world. You are of course welcome to this but don’t be surprised when other people want something different to your narrow minded ideas.

I can and do go off UN statistics, whether you like it or not, you country is a UN member state, just because you want to live in isolation is your problem, get over it. It seems that you choose to ignore poverty, well done, so much of your cold personality is coming out in this post. If you don’t like the way the discussion is discrediting your statements then tough, you can’t just say it has nothing to do with the discussion because it was you who introduced voting and education and both have considerable weight on the economic system of any country.

As I already said, you are man, you want to live in your version of heaven with 72 god made plastic virgins then you know the answer. Just don’t expect any sympathy from me.
Jim

Great Missenden, UK

#2258 Feb 12, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you still haven't answered my question , if early Muslims were fabricating hadiths anyways , why didn't they hide or at least fabricate the hadiths which may seem embarrassing to us??!
Grow up, god isn't real.

Who are you fooling? only yourself.
Thinking

Northampton, UK

#2259 Feb 12, 2014
Equal opportunities employers must expect equal opportunities illnesses. Or something.

I just won't do man flu. If I feel feverish I put a duvet in front of a roaring fire and pass out with half a bottle of brandy. This is the only time I touch spirits in the house. The next morning I have a massive bacon sandwich to kill the hangover and my fever is gone. This has happened all of three or four times in my life. Haven't got time for feeling ill and sorry for myself, crack on!
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Coming to the end of a contract at then end of a month and I want the work complete within a week so we can concentrate on other stuff. To top that I’ve got 3 people off with man flu,(one of them is a woman, go figure)
Thinking

Northampton, UK

#2260 Feb 12, 2014
sharia is wank.
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
What part exactly of" we are not applying Sharia Law anymore" you didn't get ??
you cannot make a comparison between Muslim and non Muslim countries in the present days ...!!! our dictators are applying the western laws not Sharia Laws , so when you go to your Google scholar and try to look up some numbers and statistics all what you get is the fruits of the screwed man made laws you gave us, applied forcefully on the public Muslims by the very same dictators you put in our countries.
thus either you nor thinking cannot come up and say the majority of Muslims are living in poverty, that would be irrelevant and has nothing to do with our discussion since we are not applying the Islamic economical system ...!!!
you cannot come up and say men or women cannot vote in Muslim countries because again that would be the fault of man made laws particularly the laws we applied after the British colonialism period.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2261 Feb 12, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Equal opportunities employers must expect equal opportunities illnesses. Or something.
I just won't do man flu. If I feel feverish I put a duvet in front of a roaring fire and pass out with half a bottle of brandy. This is the only time I touch spirits in the house. The next morning I have a massive bacon sandwich to kill the hangover and my fever is gone. This has happened all of three or four times in my life. Haven't got time for feeling ill and sorry for myself, crack on!
<quoted text>
I find the best way to treat a cold is to go to bed with a bottle of cognac and a hot man (or woman in your case)

Unfortunately work always gets in the way
Mahmood

Peterborough, Canada

#2262 Feb 12, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you still haven't answered my question , if early Muslims were fabricating hadiths anyways , why didn't they hide or at least fabricate the hadiths which may seem embarrassing to us??!
Don't ask me, ask them. Just because a hadith is embarrassing does not mean it is true. Hadith collectors were gathering information going back 250 years after it was allegedly said and done - how can you trust this haphazard corpus of literature? There is no way of determining how much information found in a hadiths true or false - period.

Ask me something about my father and I can write a book. I can probably write a page on my grandfather & maybe a paragraph on his father. Anything before that, I blank out.
Thinking

Northampton, UK

#2263 Feb 12, 2014
I think you fake a lot of colds.:)
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I find the best way to treat a cold is to go to bed with a bottle of cognac and a hot man (or woman in your case)
Unfortunately work always gets in the way

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#2264 Feb 12, 2014
Thinking wrote:
I think you fake a lot of colds.:)
<quoted text>
Achooo
Thinking

Northampton, UK

#2265 Feb 12, 2014
I'll send you both a virtual bottle of Courvoisier.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Achooo

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