Richard Dawkins - God is evil, pedophilesa not so bad

Sep 14, 2013 Full story: Examiner.com 3,049

"The God of the Qur'an is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

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Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2235 Feb 7, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>.
Ahh so that makes it all OK then. You don’t get a vote either and this is the regime you love…
That is absolutely the most Regime I hate.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever the reason your previous statement
“So women were trying to get Rights in 1870 while Muslim women were able to vote, own a property, have the right of inheritage, get to choose their husbands and not only have the right to get education but encouraged to since the year of 610.”
Was total BS. Thank you for admitting your error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_firs...
we are supposed to be discussing what Islam and sharia law offers not some retarded false leaders, the Islamic Ummah has declined in every aspect of life after we stopped applying Sharia Law.

ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
As to dubya who give a toss what some retarded ex cheer leader with the fetish to outdo his father thinks?
I dont get your point.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
you fooking sick minded pratt, do not ever accuse me of not being fully responsible for my actions or my dues. The chances are that I am responsible for finances that could buy and sell you sorry a$$ life. This is the attitude I frigging hate about Islam and you are totally incapable of seeing the misogyny in your fooking foul mouth and ignorant mind. Here let me put it to you this way, without females you would not be here and your father would be a wanker or butt fooking goats to get his pleasure.
I am not sure if you are the same person who claimed that morality is the most important thing , you insulted me, my father and apparently my mother and keep insulting my prophet and the religion of 1.6 billion people...!!!

but that's okay I know you didn't mean to, Anyways I never said that you or any female are not fully responsible for your actions and/or duties, Females and males are fully responsible of their actions in front of Allah and will be questioned equally with no doubt.

And with out a little doubt its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family or at least help, its actually outstanding from an Islamic point of view, and I am sure that you are doing your job perfectly, and as I told you when women choose to do that they will be rewarded for every piney they spend, but there are different cases because some men nowadays take advantage of their wives and/or daughters and force them to bring money and take it against their will, So its a must that women choose to by their free will; otherwise it will be completely prohibited for men to do so and fathers and/or husbands will be questioned by Allah for doing so, and if the female had money and chose not to spend anything on her family she has the full right to do that.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes seriously, you may deny honour killings all you want in the face of your god but they exist and are proven to exist among muslim families and tribes so you would be lying to your god
As I told you honor killings with no doubt has nothing to do with Islam, maybe its a tribal or cultural thing which is completely prohibited in Islam and considered as a great sin.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for ignoring the rest of my paragraph, but never mind. So lets forget the rather less than one percent of taliban controlled women, what about the other 44% of Islamic women who are illiterate?
if that percentage is accurate I can assure you that Islam is completely innocent from such behaviors and certainly doesn't accept it, forget about people behaviors and try to understand what Islam offers instead, Islam is a way and a complete system of life; if we as Arabs failed
to apply it then its our fault not Islam's, hence Islam "is a list of does and don'ts", a list of teachings and rules extracted from Quran and Sunnah.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2236 Feb 8, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
we are discussing Islamic issues, why would I mention Arabs before Islam ..??!
besides I told you that some Arabs used to bury their baby daughters Alive for honor before Islam, and When Mohammed who you are trying to disrespect him by calling him moh gave women rights such as the right to get education, the right of inheritance , the right to own a property ...etc and that happened 1430 year ago.
And the right to get a thunped in the tits for only half the fun

honey when your faith disrespects women then please be man enough to be responsible for the results of that disrespect

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2237 Feb 9, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
That is absolutely the most Regime I hate.
<quoted text>
we are supposed to be discussing what Islam and sharia law offers not some retarded false leaders, the Islamic Ummah has declined in every aspect of life after we stopped applying Sharia Law.
<quoted text>
I dont get your point.
<quoted text>
I am not sure if you are the same person who claimed that morality is the most important thing , you insulted me, my father and apparently my mother and keep insulting my prophet and the religion of 1.6 billion people...!!!
but that's okay I know you didn't mean to, Anyways I never said that you or any female are not fully responsible for your actions and/or duties, Females and males are fully responsible of their actions in front of Allah and will be questioned equally with no doubt.
And with out a little doubt its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family or at least help,….
Good for you, so vote them out. Oh wait a moment, you say you can’t, after saying you can – go figure…

Nope,‘you’ are discussing Islam, other people are having what is called a discussion on a discussion thread. Do you savvy?

You said Islamic women can vote – could vote and I showed you to be wrong.

No you wouldn’t get my point., you were the one who brought Bush into the conversation and yet it seems you are clueless about him.

Oh honey, yes I do mean to insult but only after you insulted me, several times, you don’t like the results of your insults then you have the option to butt out. You will be interested to know that I usually only give once chance, with you however the discussion has been quite interesting so although I have on several occasions highlighted your insults (and you have usually ignored those points) I have given considerable leeway.

Females and males are fully responsible of their actions but females get only half the reward?

There you go again,‘at least help’, you pig ignorant moron, you really have no idea of you indoctrinated misogamy do you?

Yes, at last, thank you, funny how you usually end up agreeing with me eventually. Some men take advantage, not always Islamic men, religion generally has little to do with it however, it’s more to do with egotistical (correct spelling) mindsets. However such behaviour is excused in your god book and so they commit their mental/physical violence in gods name and are proud of it. And of course you will find that families with abusive members tend to be more religious than not, this stems from the interpretation of the way(s) Eve was made and of course blaming her as the source of evil.

Against such men their wives/daughters have no free will, this is what I have been saying all along and up to now you have always denied or excused.

As I told you honour killing does exist in Islam, it is most common among Muslims, if your faith prohibits it then WTF does it happen so often? Because some Muslims interpret the god books in the way they do, that’s why. It is not the perfect book, as you appear to think, because that’s the way you interpret it, as I have also said all along, it is open to interpretation.

The UN gives a figure of 55% literacy among Muslim women, therefore 45% are illiterate, the extra 1% accounted for your excuse of the Taliban. Whether Islam accepts the figure or not is irrelevant, the figure exists.

Wrong, Islam is not a complete system, if it were a complete system then Shiite and Sunni would not be killing each other. There would not be so much dissatisfaction among Islamic women. There would be no need for terrorism because if it were a complete system then every one would want their bit.
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

#2238 Feb 9, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
As I told you Mohammed (peace be upon him) didn't ban all his companions to write Hadiths, some did take the permission to write down hadiths, other hadiths were memorized by the his companions and they transferred what they memorized to others, and caliph Umar bin Abd Al aziz did gather most of the hadiths , Bukhari and Muslim among with others took care of the revision and the categorization of Hadiths.
Hadiths are still opened up for categorization,even you can become specialized in the science of Hadith and after many years of education you may be able to take up a Hadith from weak to Sahih or from Sahih to weak or whatever.
now you don't have the very minimum requirements to make a judgment about some Hadiths' accuracy, Some Muslims traveled for thousands of miles back then to make sure if someone did narrate a hadith or not.
Your claim that Mohammad allowed some of his companions to write down hadiths is a fabrication and it examplifies dishonety. What is the source of such information? You keep referring to hadiths as a science knowing full well that it is not. To understand the background on the development of hadith literature, one must sift the history of Islam from 250 years after the lifetime of Mohammad. During the first century of Mohd's era, none of the hadiths were written down which makes matters worse. Stories circulated by word of mouth & by the time it got to the 12th individual, it was probably more than tainted.

The so called science of isnad which is the touchstone of hadiths authenticity has tremendous flaws in it. How can you give credence to something that was not written down and yet 250 years later, Bukhari supposedly managed to trace back its source by establishing all the links in a chain which cannot possibly have been reconstructed. How was Bukhari able to do this without written records bridging a gap of about eight generations or more? When I narrate an incident to someone, that person will hear it and repeat it to someone else. He probably will not ask where I got the information from. And by the time it gets to the fifth person, the incident gets adultrated.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2239 Feb 9, 2014
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
Your claim that Mohammad allowed some of his companions to write down hadiths is a fabrication and it examplifies dishonety. What is the source of such information? You keep referring to hadiths as a science knowing full well that it is not. To understand the background on the development of hadith literature, one must sift the history of Islam from 250 years after the lifetime of Mohammad. During the first century of Mohd's era, none of the hadiths were written down which makes matters worse. Stories circulated by word of mouth & by the time it got to the 12th individual, it was probably more than tainted.
The so called science of isnad which is the touchstone of hadiths authenticity has tremendous flaws in it. How can you give credence to something that was not written down and yet 250 years later, Bukhari supposedly managed to trace back its source by establishing all the links in a chain which cannot possibly have been reconstructed. How was Bukhari able to do this without written records bridging a gap of about eight generations or more? When I narrate an incident to someone, that person will hear it and repeat it to someone else. He probably will not ask where I got the information from. And by the time it gets to the fifth person, the incident gets adultrated.
Sounds like the old wartime story of "send reinforcements we are going to advance" passing several messengers to become "send three and four pence we are going to a dance" by the time it got to headquarters

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2240 Feb 9, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Good for you, so vote them out. Oh wait a moment, you say you can’t, after saying you can – go figure…
they used to teach us in elementary school that our country Jordan is considered to be a semi democratic country, I think the term semi-democratic means by away or another dictatorship...!!
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope,‘you’ are discussing Islam, other people are having what is called a discussion on a discussion thread. Do you savvy?
Do people still use this word "Savvy" ?
I am a savvier indeed.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You said Islamic women can vote – could vote and I showed you to be wrong.
When I mentioned the right of voting I was referring to Muslim women participating in politics, and since the beginning of the message of Islam Mohammed (Peace BUH) consulted women in everything not only his wives but also other women as all the Muslims used to gather in the mosque to discuss different matters, so did his companions and all the caliphs after him, when you read Mohammed's biography or the Islamic history you'll notice that women participated not even in politics but in everything in the community.

I indeed wasn't discussing the right of voting in nowadays Islamic territories, because with no doubt Muslims are oppressed by dictators and corrupted governments, nearly all the 47 Islamic countries aren't applying sharia Law, so your comparison is invalid for bringing examples of countries which are not applying sharia Law in the first place, thus the only thing we can do is to judge Islamic teachings and sharia laws theoretically away from Muslims' actions and/or Islamic countries applying man made laws.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
No you wouldn’t get my point., you were the one who brought Bush into the conversation and yet it seems you are clueless about him.
The only thing I know about him is that he is a war criminal, and that is the only thing I need to know.

ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
you insulted me, several times, you don’t like the results o. You will be interested to know that I usually only give once chance, with you however the discussion has been quite interesting so although I have on several occasions highlighted your insults (and you have usually ignored those points) I have given considerable leeway.
Females and males are fully responsible of their actions but females get only half the reward?
There you go again,‘at least help’, you pig ignorant moron, you really have no idea of you indoctrinated misogamy do you?
If you meant "by half of the reward" the right of inheritance then I am afraid the right of inheritance should never be considered as a reward otherwise everybody would wait for a relative to die to get a reward like son would wait his father or mother to die in order to get a reward ..!!!
that would be a bit harsh and completely inconsiderate, anyways its not always the male gets as twice as the female ; there are different cases and circumstances to be taken in consideration.
if you meant by "half of the reward" from Allah for good deeds then its non sense because I remember that I told you Women would take more rewards for paying money or taking care of her family as long as she did that by her complete free will.

I don't know why you got insulted when I posted "its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family or at least help" , I had to add "at least help" if I only said its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family ; it would appear like I excluded your husband from the whole image, and if I excluded your husband it would be like I disrespected him in away or another and spoke behind his back at the same time, I think the good intention behind the word "at least help" is obvious, I apparently never intended to reduce the important role your are doing in taking care of your family.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2241 Feb 9, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, at last, thank you, funny how you usually end up agreeing with me eventually. Some men take advantage, not always Islamic men, religion generally has little to do with it however, it’s more to do with egotistical (correct spelling) mindsets. However such behaviour is excused in your god book and so they commit their mental/physical violence in gods name and are proud of it. And of course you will find that families with abusive members tend to be more religious than not, this stems from the interpretation of the way(s) Eve was made and of course blaming her as the source of evil.
of course I did agree with you on that specific part, and apparently Islam does agree with you as well, there are numerous verses in Quran warns men and husbands from taking women's money if they didn't want to give any, and confirms that such an action is completely prohibited and doesn't please Allah, and may take the man who does so to the same grade of the Aggressors and Allah certainly doesn't like aggressors.

for Eve's issue, Islam places equal blame on both Adam and Eve for their mistake, Nowhere in the Quran can one find even the slightest hint that Eve tempted Adam to eat from the tree or even that she had eaten before him, Islam is actually the only religion which doesn't blame Eve.

"O Adam! Dwell with your wife in the Garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm and transgression. Then Satan whispered to them in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them and he said:'Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels or such beings as live forever."

"And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought them to their fall: when they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the Garden over their bodies."
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Against such men their wives/daughters have no free will, this is what I have been saying all along and up to now you have always denied or excused.
that is absolutely grievous, and some statistics shows that every 2.5 seconds a sexual assault occurs in America, that is grievous too, and Islam has nothing to do with these two outrageous behaviors.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
As I told you honour killing does exist in Islam, it is most common among Muslims, if your faith prohibits it then WTF does it happen so often? Because some Muslims interpret the god books in the way they do, that’s why. It is not the perfect book, as you appear to think, because that’s the way you interpret it, as I have also said all along, it is open to interpretation.
Check my previous response.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, Islam is not a complete system, if it were a complete system then Shiite and Sunni would not be killing each other. There would not be so much dissatisfaction among Islamic women. There would be no need for terrorism because if it were a complete system then every one would want their bit.
It is a complete system as sharia law offers solutions for every aspect of life including; social life, economical system, political system, educational system and a judicial system.

Under sharia law every citizen (Muslims and non Muslims) should get Food, Shelter, water and gas free of charge, and that's the way Muslims have been living under Cilapha for over a millennium, not to mention that a very big part of Europe was ruled by Muslims Like Spain , Norway and other countries, until your beloved great Britain tore down the Ottomon empire through Arabs to take our resources and ended the Islamic Cilapha, but at the end its a matter of time and the Flag of Islam will fly all over Europe ,America, the entire west and the whole world.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2242 Feb 9, 2014
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
Your claim that Mohammad allowed some of his companions to write down hadiths is a fabrication and it examplifies dishonety. What is the source of such information? You keep referring to hadiths as a science knowing full well that it is not. To understand the background on the development of hadith literature, one must sift the history of Islam from 250 years after the lifetime of Mohammad...
you need to study the history of Hadith , you cannot expect Bukhari and Muslim to gather 600,000 Hadiths out of nothing and write it down, they needed to start investigating on what they already have, Bukhari and Muslim among other scholars back Then like Abu Dawood and others played a huge Rule to categorize Hadiths , but that certainly doesn't mean they searched for people and wrote down whatever people told them they heard, as The process of recording the Hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH), went through several stages, starting from the era of the Companions where some of them wrote what they heard from the Prophet . So, the companions were the first people to write down the Hadeeth, but its likely nothing of what they wrote reached us. During the caliphate of Umar ibn Abdul Azeez he wrote for a group of scholars to collect the Hadeeth of the Prophet , but when they collected the Hadiths they were mixed with the sayings of the Companions and Fatawas of the Followers (generation following the Companions).

The matter remained like that until some scholars suggested collecting the Hadith of the Prophet , in a different manner. Therefore, Ubaydullaah ibn Moosa authored a Musnad (the Chain of narrators), and so did Musaddad AlBasri, Asad ibn Moosa, and Nu‘aym ibn Hammaad Al-Khuzaa‘i so The method of these Musnads was that the Hadiths of each Companion were grouped separately. Later, scholars of religious sciences followed the same method of those scholars.

Imam Bukhari was the first scholar to collect and investigate to find Sahih Hadiths , as you stated before he found or categorized; I am not sure maybe 4000 or 6000 Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths, that is what he was aiming for and that's why he added the most important Rules like Al Jarh wa Al tadil to the science of Hadith.

the compiling of Hadith was taken through different stages, Allow me my friend to ask you a question, Dont you think that there are Some Hadiths that may make Muslims uncomfortable ?? or somehow embarrassed ?? I am talking about Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths not what was categorized as fabricated, weak or mawdoo.

Don't you think that Muslims when they were in control and strong could Just hide some of these Hadiths or fabricate them into other stories ?? for instance Sunnah or hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH) which state that he Married Zayd's (his ex-adopted son) wife after he made him divorce her , or "christinM" favorite Hadith that states Mohammed thumbed Aisha in the chest, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was a victim of a black magic performed by Jewish lady at the last days of his life, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was afraid the first time he got revelations and thought he was obsessed by some kind of a Demon (Jin)??
Why couldn't they Just hide such Hadiths ???

I think I may answer this question by one word which is "Accuracy", and such Hadiths prove that the message of Islam was preserved perfectly.

I am not saying that these Hadiths or actions of Mohammed are not justified, and with no doubt can be explained easily, the point is if Hadiths were fabricated as you claim, its noway Muslims would like to show their hero and Role model (Mohammed ) as a man who was a victim of a Black magic , we would fabricate another story and make Mohammed die in a battle field instead in Aisha's lap , We would also say Mohammed got revelations since he was a kid, if we wanted to fabricate Hadiths we would change a lot of things.

Think of that Question, and I'll be waiting to hear from you.
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

#2243 Feb 10, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you need to study the history of Hadith , you cannot expect Bukhari and Muslim to gather 600,000 Hadiths out of nothing and write it down, they needed to start investigating on what they already have, Bukhari and Muslim among other scholars back Then like Abu Dawood and others played a huge Rule to categorize Hadiths , but that certainly doesn't mean they searched for people and wrote down whatever people told them they heard, as The process of recording the Hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH), went through several stages, starting from the era of the Companions where some of them wrote what they heard from the Prophet . So, the companions were the first people to write down the Hadeeth, but its likely nothing of what they wrote reached us. During the caliphate of Umar ibn Abdul Azeez he wrote for a group of scholars to collect the Hadeeth of the Prophet , but when they collected the Hadiths they were mixed with the sayings of the Companions and Fatawas of the Followers (generation following the Companions).
The matter remained like that until some scholars suggested collecting the Hadith of the Prophet , in a different manner. Therefore, Ubaydullaah ibn Moosa authored a Musnad (the Chain of narrators), and so did Musaddad AlBasri, Asad ibn Moosa, and Nu‘aym ibn Hammaad Al-Khuzaa‘i so The method of these Musnads was that the Hadiths of each Companion were grouped separately. Later, scholars of religious sciences followed the same method of those scholars.
Imam Bukhari was the first scholar to collect and investigate to find Sahih Hadiths , as you stated before he found or categorized; I am not sure maybe 4000 or 6000 Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths, that is what he was aiming for and that's why he added the most important Rules like Al Jarh wa Al tadil to the science of Hadith.
the compiling of Hadith was taken through different stages, Allow me my friend to ask you a question, Dont you think that there are Some Hadiths that may make Muslims uncomfortable ?? or somehow embarrassed ?? I am talking about Authentic (Sahih) Hadiths not what was categorized as fabricated, weak or mawdoo.
Don't you think that Muslims when they were in control and strong could Just hide some of these Hadiths or fabricate them into other stories ?? for instance Sunnah or hadiths of Mohammed (PBUH) which state that he Married Zayd's (his ex-adopted son) wife after he made him divorce her , or "christinM" favorite Hadith that states Mohammed thumbed Aisha in the chest, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was a victim of a black magic performed by Jewish lady at the last days of his life, or the Hadith that states Mohammed was afraid the first time he got revelations and thought he was obsessed by some kind of a Demon (Jin)??
Why couldn't they Just hide such Hadiths ???
I think I may answer this question by one word which is "Accuracy", and such Hadiths prove that the message of Islam was preserved perfectly.
I am not saying that these Hadiths or actions of Mohammed are not justified, and with no doubt can be explained easily, the point is if Hadiths were fabricated as you claim, its noway Muslims would like to show their hero and Role model (Mohammed ) as a man who was a victim of a Black magic , we would fabricate another story and make Mohammed die in a battle field instead in Aisha's lap , We would also say Mohammed got revelations since he was a kid, if we wanted to fabricate Hadiths we would change a lot of things.
Think of that Question, and I'll be waiting to hear from you.
Many musnads ascribed to early authors were compiled long after them. Great majority of the hadithss were most likely products of the religious, historical, & social conditions prevaltent during the first two centuries of Islam.

Continued:
Mahmood

Mississauga, Canada

#2244 Feb 10, 2014
Continued:

There was lapse of over two centuries from the time Mohammad died to the time when most of the hadiths were compiled. This time factor alone is enough to question the authenticity of the hadtihs. Human memories fade with the passage of time. How can one verify an unwritten text 250 years later. Compilation of hadiths were not made from recorded documents.

Even the most ``authentic`books are not free narratives wrongly attributed to Mohammad. All ahadith have been written through chains of narrators. These chains comprise of several links of reporters, in many instances, more than 10. When our scholars sit down to check on a reported hadith, their research begins and ends at one point. That is whether the narrators are reliable or not. People named in a particular hadith, were they real or fictitious, when were they born, why were they born, where did a particular storyteller live, when did he die, what was his temperament, how good was his memory, was his beard long enough, was he the son of a bondwoman, or his mother was divorced. One was caught listening to music. Another one was seen drinking date-wine. He was seen drinking water with his left hand, and another was conducting ablution with the right hand, etc.

While Sunnis consider Bukhari and Muslim ahadith as the most authentic books, Shias reject that notion and consider Nehjul Balagha and Al-Kafi as the most trustworthy sources.

The science of asma ar-rajal is not a science at all. It is mere conjecture. All it deals with is whether a particular hadith has one narrator or multiple, does the chain have any weak links, do any of the reporters believe in a different school of thought, and so on. Different scholars and sects and even the masses tend to accept only those ahadith that fit into their dogmas and reject those that are otherwise.

I`ll tell you what. Go and try to find details on how your grandfather`s grandfather lived and what he said & see how easy that is.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2245 Feb 11, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
they used to teach us in elementary school that our country Jordan is considered to be a semi democratic country, I think the term semi-democratic means by away or another dictatorship...!!
<quoted text>
Do people still use this word "Savvy" ?
I am a savvier indeed.
<quoted text>
When I mentioned the right of voting I was referring to Muslim women participating in politics, and since the beginning of the message of Islam Moh…
<quoted text>
The only thing I know about him is that he is a war criminal, and that is the only thing I need to know.
<quoted text>
If you meant "by half of the reward" the right of inheritance then I am afraid the right of inheritance should never be considered as a reward otherwise everybody would wait for a relative to die to get a reward like son would wait his father or mother to die in order to get a reward ..!!!
that would be a bit harsh and completely inconsiderate, anyways its not always the male gets as twice as the female ; there are different cases and circumstances to be taken in consideration.
if you meant by "half of the reward" from Allah for good deeds then its non sense because I remember that I told you Women would take more rewards for paying money or taking care of her family as long as she did that by her complete free will.
I don't know why you got insulted when I posted "its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family or at least help" , I had to add "at least help" if I only said its a great thing that you are the one who takes care of your family ; it would appear like I excluded your husband from the whole image, and if I excluded your husband it would be like I disrespected him in away or another and spoke behind his back at the same time, I think the good intention behind the word "at least help" is obvious, I apparently never intended to reduce the important role your are doing in taking care of your family.
So women (and men) in your country have no vote then even though you said otherwise?

Yes. and methinks and gobbledygook and umbrage and many more, olds words can be so rich in meaning when used in the correct way.

Participating in politics is not voting, so you now change your story after being pulled up on it. Utopia is a wonderful place is it not? And story books are so good at depicting Utopian ideas. So why are women in Mosques forced to sit separate from men? I know what you are going to say, to protect them, so why do women need protection from men even in mosques? Is this perfect system utopia? It may be the misogynist’s dream of utopia.

You will also note that this perfect religious system of yours engenders and enfranchise such corruption. You have allowed the situation to happen. What you appear to be saying is that if the Muslim countries were not Muslim then women could vote but because they are Muslim countries then women (and in most cases men) cannot vote. Thank you for admitting that women cannot (generally) vote in Muslim countries. You took a convoluted way around buy you got there in the end.

Well your deliberate ignorance is your affair but you really should not be surprised when you mention bush in a question and then cannot understand the response

When I say half of the reward I mean Quran 4:11 and Quran 2:282 and Quran 2:228 and Quran 5:6 and Quran 24:31 and Quran 2:223 and Quran 4:24 and Quran 33:50 and any number of hadiths.

Honey, you insult me with your indifference and ignorance of what you said, and your ignorance of a woman’s place in this world, and with your incredulity, that you don’t even pretend to understand. And the thing is you will never be able to understand why you insulted me because your god book has taught you too well, unfortunately it has taught you a load of BS that is irrelevant in the modern world.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2248 Feb 11, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Most countries get the government they deserve. People need to improve themselves from the bottom up at the same time as questioning the system, not instead of.
<quoted text>
I find it hilarious that he is promoting Islam as the perfect system and yet complaining bitterly that that system has provided not allows him to vote for his muslim dictatorship.

And in his next post he threatens to spread his “perfect” system all over the western world

This is fundamentalism at it’s most fundamental, forget the American godbots like buttcrack, riversideroughneck and co. What we have here is the real thing that would show those christian pissants the true meaning of spittle flecked ranting.

.

I know you are on higher ground but it sounds dismal down there. Not too badly effected are you?

I watched Cammeron on Breakfast doing the hypocritical “help each other” and “we are doing all we can”- I am sure the effects of climate change have been researched since the 50s, that’s 60 years to get their act together. If ordinary people used the good old fire fighting method to run there businesses what sort of state would we be in?

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2250 Feb 11, 2014
Thinking wrote:
haram salami is just a muppet.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, "my" dog walking fields in front of Disraeli's manor are being invaded by rugby and football teams who have lost the use of their usual fields. It's manageable in the week, but Sunday is a bit of scrum(!). But apart from that, everything is fine for us and I love seeing the frequent rainbows.
I agree with your comment regarding the lack of planning.
One of the plans I heard was to let beavers build upstream. This will slow the rate that water flows off the hills. It is cheaper to compensate farmers for flooded uphill fields than it is to fix problems further down stream. If controlled flooding of fields is well understood, it can be part of the farmer's business model. We will need to do a whole bunch of these things to add some more resilience into our systems.
<quoted text>
All funnymentalist are muppets but this guy is a real miss piggy – I’m right because allah says I’m right - Heeeyyyaaaaaa

Good to hear that those effected by the flooding are still playing games and getting their exercise?

Yup I heard that too and compromising river banks upstream to the same effect.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2252 Feb 11, 2014
Thinking wrote:
haram salami seems pretty easy to anger. I bet he hasn't even bought every "jesus and mo" book yet.
Lots of people want to move to England, so we will need to stay on top of the infrastructure.
<quoted text>
http://www.jesusandmo.net/

I may be a bit scant in replying over the next few days, we have a cram on.

I can’t wait to get out, if only for the weather.
Thinking

Poole, UK

#2253 Feb 11, 2014
Better to be busy than not... see you on the other side.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
I may be a bit scant in replying over the next few days, we have a cram on.
I can’t wait to get out, if only for the weather.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2254 Feb 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it hilarious that he is promoting Islam as the perfect system and yet complaining bitterly that that system has provided not allows him to vote for his muslim dictatorship.
And in his next post he threatens to spread his “perfect” system all over the western world
This is fundamentalism at it’s most fundamental, forget the American godbots like buttcrack, riversideroughneck and co. What we have here is the real thing that would show those christian pissants the true meaning of spittle flecked ranting.
What part exactly of" we are not applying Sharia Law anymore" you didn't get ??
you cannot make a comparison between Muslim and non Muslim countries in the present days ...!!! our dictators are applying the western laws not Sharia Laws , so when you go to your Google scholar and try to look up some numbers and statistics all what you get is the fruits of the screwed man made laws you gave us, applied forcefully on the public Muslims by the very same dictators you put in our countries.

thus either you nor thinking cannot come up and say the majority of Muslims are living in poverty, that would be irrelevant and has nothing to do with our discussion since we are not applying the Islamic economical system ...!!!

you cannot come up and say men or women cannot vote in Muslim countries because again that would be the fault of man made laws particularly the laws we applied after the British colonialism period.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2255 Feb 12, 2014
Mahmood wrote:
Continued:
There was lapse of over two centuries from the time Mohammad died to the time when most of the hadiths were compiled. This time factor alone is enough to question the authenticity of the hadtihs. Human memories fade with the passage of time. How can one verify an unwritten text 250 years later. Compilation of hadiths were not made from recorded documents.
Even the most ``authentic`books are not free narratives wrongly attributed to Mohammad. All ahadith have been written through chains of narrators. These chains comprise of several links of reporters, in many instances, more than 10. When our scholars sit down to check on a reported hadith, their research begins and ends at one point. That is whether the narrators are reliable or not. People named in a particular hadith, were they real or fictitious, when were they born, why were they born, where did a particular storyteller live, when did he die, what was his temperament, how good was his memory, was his beard long enough, was he the son of a bondwoman, or his mother was divorced. One was caught listening to music. Another one was seen drinking date-wine. He was seen drinking water with his left hand, and another was conducting ablution with the right hand, etc.
While Sunnis consider Bukhari and Muslim ahadith as the most authentic books, Shias reject that notion and consider Nehjul Balagha and Al-Kafi as the most trustworthy sources.
The science of asma ar-rajal is not a science at all. It is mere conjecture. All it deals with is whether a particular hadith has one narrator or multiple, does the chain have any weak links, do any of the reporters believe in a different school of thought, and so on. Different scholars and sects and even the masses tend to accept only those ahadith that fit into their dogmas and reject those that are otherwise.
I`ll tell you what. Go and try to find details on how your grandfather`s grandfather lived and what he said & see how easy that is.
you still haven't answered my question , if early Muslims were fabricating hadiths anyways , why didn't they hide or at least fabricate the hadiths which may seem embarrassing to us??!

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2256 Feb 12, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Better to be busy than not... see you on the other side.
<quoted text>
Coming to the end of a contract at then end of a month and I want the work complete within a week so we can concentrate on other stuff. To top that I’ve got 3 people off with man flu,(one of them is a woman, go figure)

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#2257 Feb 12, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
What part exactly of" we are not applying Sharia Law anymore" you didn't get ??
you cannot make a comparison between Muslim and non Muslim countries in the present days ...!!! our dictators are applying the western laws not Sharia Laws , so when you go to your Google scholar and try to look up some numbers and statistics all what you get is the fruits of the screwed man made laws you gave us, applied forcefully on the public Muslims by the very same dictators you put in our countries.
thus either you nor thinking cannot come up and say the majority of Muslims are living in poverty, that would be irrelevant and has nothing to do with our discussion since we are not applying the Islamic economical system ...!!!
you cannot come up and say men or women cannot vote in Muslim countries because again that would be the fault of man made laws particularly the laws we applied after the British colonialism period.
What aspect of who gives a toss about the politics in you necks of the woods don’t you understand?

Yes I can make such a comparison because we are all human beings. If you cannot agree with yet accept what has become the norm in your country then the problem is partially yours so don’t go whinging about it, you are always free to go somewhere more to your liking. Oh wait a moment, I’m not sure if this is correct, are you free to move to another Muslim country or are man made laws restricting you? You know I am completely free to move where I want and I too am bound by the man made laws of the country I live.

Yes and you of course would really love it if those sharia laws were “IMPOSED” on the rest of the world. Honey imposed government under your terms is not democracy but dictatorship

Are you saying that sharia law is not man made? Note man made laws are made by man and you (believe it or not) are a man not an incubi of a bronze age myth and dark age ignorance who were incidentally man made concepts.

I have told you before, you don’t like it then move to a democratic country and stop whinging about what the adherence to out dated Muslim traditions have handed you. Your government and others are trying to move into the modern global village while retaining as much as possible of tradition. It is a very delicate balancing act that boils down to how much change will people of any one country accept while trying to align itself with the rest of the world. You either join in are go under, it seems that we now know that you would prefer the dark age isolationism than the modern world. You are of course welcome to this but don’t be surprised when other people want something different to your narrow minded ideas.

I can and do go off UN statistics, whether you like it or not, you country is a UN member state, just because you want to live in isolation is your problem, get over it. It seems that you choose to ignore poverty, well done, so much of your cold personality is coming out in this post. If you don’t like the way the discussion is discrediting your statements then tough, you can’t just say it has nothing to do with the discussion because it was you who introduced voting and education and both have considerable weight on the economic system of any country.

As I already said, you are man, you want to live in your version of heaven with 72 god made plastic virgins then you know the answer. Just don’t expect any sympathy from me.
Jim

London, UK

#2258 Feb 12, 2014
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
you still haven't answered my question , if early Muslims were fabricating hadiths anyways , why didn't they hide or at least fabricate the hadiths which may seem embarrassing to us??!
Grow up, god isn't real.

Who are you fooling? only yourself.

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