20+ Questions for Theists

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#105 Apr 22, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>The point you responded to was that I do not know of any false information provided in the Bible.
So how many legs do insects have? That'd be four right?
Imhotep

Saint Petersburg, FL

#106 Apr 22, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>I will now provide proof that your argument is flawed. To quote a person (Mr Russel) expressing a point of view does not make it true.
<quoted text>
You would evidently subscribe to this view. Then maybe you would answer just a few questions:
1. How come there is strong argument that science as a self sustaining discipline originated in the Christian West?
2. How come a large number of scientists (also modern scientists) accept Christianity?
3. Man is supposed to be “on the threshold of a golden age”. Would you argue that an increase in wars, chaos in government and schools, increase in crime is an indication of such a golden age?
If you cannot bring solid argument in favour of Mr Russel’s “claim” then I would think that your comments provide further proof that my conclusion is correct. As you will notice, the quotation does not provide proof, just an allegation. You are now called upon to substantiate the claim
<quoted text>
I would like you to substantiate this, supported by verifiable fact. Failing this will provide further support for my conclusion.
<quoted text>
Mat 10:22 And you will be hated by all on account of My name...
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.--Matthew 10:35-36

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Can you Provide evidence that your God is the only true God in a way that religions other than yours cannot do?

Can you Provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than yours cannot do with theirs?

Until this time, and it will be an eternity - you are only one of many religious cult members - each claiming more or less the same immortality or enlightenment as others.

Speaking of Russell ;)
Bertrand Russell
"Religion prevents our children from having a rational education; religion prevents us from removing the fundamental causes of war; religion prevents us from teaching the ethic of scientific cooperation in place of the old fierce doctrines of sin and punishment. It is possible that mankind is on the threshold of a golden age; but, if so, it will be necessary first to slay the dragon that guards the door, and this dragon is religion."

Next Lesson - Mithras. Oops!

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristiani...

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

Try harder next time, You have disappointed your savior with this outing.

This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him--2 Kings 6:28-29

Do you want fries with that?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#107 Apr 22, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him--2 Kings 6:28-29
Do you want fries with that?
Mmmmmmm..... boiled ... fries.

Sounds exactly like the limp and tasteless "fries" they used to serve us wee kiddies back in Primary School.

I remember once lunch period-- the cooks made a drastic mistake-- the food actually had.... a bit of flavoring added.

I'm sure it was an unintentional mistake, as it was immediately corrected the next day.

Aaaah... the childhood memories of eating Government Approved™ "food" ....

... it's no wonder I was not able to launch my Pro Wrestling career...
Imhotep

Saint Petersburg, FL

#108 Apr 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Mmmmmmm..... boiled ... fries.
Sounds exactly like the limp and tasteless "fries" they used to serve us wee kiddies back in Primary School.
I remember once lunch period-- the cooks made a drastic mistake-- the food actually had.... a bit of flavoring added.
I'm sure it was an unintentional mistake, as it was immediately corrected the next day.
Aaaah... the childhood memories of eating Government Approved™ "food" ....
... it's no wonder I was not able to launch my Pro Wrestling career...
I really lament the fact you missed out your pro wrestling career

I too was swallowed up with despair

I received a super Grand Grand Maximo finalist in the publisher clearing house sweep steaks!!!!!

I've been waiting over 26 years For my free house and I've purchased 47 buildings to hold all the magazines and books they sent.

Among them...

"Trail in the desert "
By Peter Dragon

"Rusty bedspring's "
By IP nightly

"The Tigers revenge "
By Claude Balls

"Murder at the Greeks "
By I Eta Beta

See my eBay ad !

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#109 Apr 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Mmmmmmm..... boiled ... fries.
Sounds exactly like the limp and tasteless "fries" they used to serve us wee kiddies back in Primary School.
I remember once lunch period-- the cooks made a drastic mistake-- the food actually had.... a bit of flavoring added.
I'm sure it was an unintentional mistake, as it was immediately corrected the next day.
Aaaah... the childhood memories of eating Government Approved™ "food" ....
... it's no wonder I was not able to launch my Pro Wrestling career...
I suspect that an actual human being found a way to sneak into that school cafeteria.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#111 Apr 23, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Lie.
Since you start out with such a bald-faced lie?
I cannot accept a single additional word you write-- for it will likely be lies too.
If I am mistaken, you must correct me with fact. Care to look at Dead Sea scrolls, Ebla finds, Archaeological finds that confirm Biblical record.
It may be interesting to find where information stated as fact is incorrect?
Lies imply knowledge yet being dishonest about it. You suggest this and why? I beg to differ as you will not find that in any of my posts. My previous post indicates an opposite position (agree that question "stumps" me.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#112 Apr 23, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I got some baaaaaad news for you, then.
If claim above is TRUE?
Even a LITTLE true?
Then you just blew out all possibility of free will!
Seriously!
If your god is "in control"? Then people, by definition, are not.
And if people are NOT?
Then they have no free will.
That's it, then... may as well go home.
LMAO!
You make the assumption that I am Arminian? Nope! Consider what the Bible tells us about sin - not one without sin (Read the Ten Commandments and you will realise this.

Take even your own "standards" of right and wrong (such as lying, it seems). Have you ever lied? If you are honest, you will agree that you have, and on more than one occasion. So you are "guilty".

What does the law of the land say? That you must receive punishment - whether it a fine or sentenced to be incarcerated. That is "fair" we all agree (apart from the chap's lawyers of course). God is fair - He will punish as well. That is fairly plain in Scripture.

Now seeing that we all sin and thus guilty, we all deserve what God has revealed - hell. And as the Bible says, we are dead in our trespasses and sins and unable to "choose" God. This is where grace comes in. Undeserving of God's mercy He sent his Son, to die for our sins so we can be freed from the law and reign of sin.

Jesus took our sins upon himself and made us free, clothed with the righteousness of Christ, and not our own merit or clever decision, purely by grace.

Now considering this, you want free will to choose against God - which you will do due to our fallen nature. As the Bible clearly states
" Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

It is a bit long- winded, but I think context is in most cases a good thing.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#113 Apr 23, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>You make the assumption that I am Arminian? Nope! Consider what the Bible tells us about sin - not one without sin (Read the Ten Commandments and you will realise this.
Take even your own "standards" of right and wrong (such as lying, it seems). Have you ever lied? If you are honest, you will agree that you have, and on more than one occasion. So you are "guilty".
What does the law of the land say? That you must receive punishment - whether it a fine or sentenced to be incarcerated. That is "fair" we all agree (apart from the chap's lawyers of course). God is fair - He will punish as well. That is fairly plain in Scripture.
Now seeing that we all sin and thus guilty, we all deserve what God has revealed - hell. And as the Bible says, we are dead in our trespasses and sins and unable to "choose" God. This is where grace comes in. Undeserving of God's mercy He sent his Son, to die for our sins so we can be freed from the law and reign of sin.
Jesus took our sins upon himself and made us free, clothed with the righteousness of Christ, and not our own merit or clever decision, purely by grace.
Now considering this, you want free will to choose against God - which you will do due to our fallen nature. As the Bible clearly states
" Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
It is a bit long- winded, but I think context is in most cases a good thing.
We're not sure why you lie about god. Maybe its because you don't have any morals?
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#114 Apr 23, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>If I am mistaken, you must correct me with fact. Care to look at Dead Sea scrolls, Ebla finds,..
The Dead Sea Scrolls have been radiocarbon dated to the last two centuries BCE and the first century CE. Scholars think the OT was written when the Jews returned from the babylonian captivity. In other words what you have are hundredth hand accounts which are highly dubious in origin. They report legendary characters of the distant past and can be considered little more than camp fire tales and fiction.

"The Bible's language is not an historical language. It is a language of high literature, of story, of sermon and of song. It is a tool of philosophy and moral instruction."

The first 11 chapters of Genesis are complete fiction, the rest of the Bible can also be considered non historical, it is essentially a collection of literature.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#115 Apr 23, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Undeserving of God's mercy He sent his Son, to die for our sins so we can be freed from the law and reign of sin.
A human sacrifice in other words. Sacrifice an innocent to pay for the sins of others. Immoral and disgusting.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#116 Apr 23, 2013
I suggest you then never do something that only benefits others at your own expense. I do not think I would really like to be a friend.
It seems at some stage it was heroic to sacrifice yourself for others - as I assume some guys did at the Twin Towers.
But things seems to have changed. Quite a pity, I would think, don't you?
Jesus said some would at times (have the courage) to die for their friends but Jesus shows his love for us by dying for us while we were still sinners.
If you ask me, I'd rather have a friend like that.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#117 Apr 23, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
A human sacrifice in other words. Sacrifice an innocent to pay for the sins of others. Immoral and disgusting.
Please see above. Thanks
Thinking

Downham Market, UK

#118 Apr 23, 2013
Way back in the 80s, this BBC documentary explained in layman's terms how altruism has Evolved.

Andre wrote:
I suggest you then never do something that only benefits others at your own expense. I do not think I would really like to be a friend.
It seems at some stage it was heroic to sacrifice yourself for others - as I assume some guys did at the Twin Towers.
But things seems to have changed. Quite a pity, I would think, don't you?
Jesus said some would at times (have the courage) to die for their friends but Jesus shows his love for us by dying for us while we were still sinners.
If you ask me, I'd rather have a friend like that.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#119 Apr 23, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
The Dead Sea Scrolls have been radiocarbon dated to the last two centuries BCE and the first century CE. Scholars think the OT was written when the Jews returned from the babylonian captivity. In other words what you have are hundredth hand accounts which are highly dubious in origin. They report legendary characters of the distant past and can be considered little more than camp fire tales and fiction.
"The Bible's language is not an historical language. It is a language of high literature, of story, of sermon and of song. It is a tool of philosophy and moral instruction."
The first 11 chapters of Genesis are complete fiction, the rest of the Bible can also be considered non historical, it is essentially a collection of literature.
You guys are sticklers for fact rather than fiction? I notice that "think/considered" seems to play quite an important role in your "argument" - which in my humble opinion does not equate to fact, hard and unfalsified (oops) fact.
Your comment on the nature of the Bible text is fairly close to accurate. Different genres are encountered - From historical fact, to wisdom to prophetic, love poems etc.
As far as the first 11 chapters are concerned, you cannot state that it is untrue. There is no undisputed evidence that contradicts the Bible narrative. If there is, I challenge you to present it.

I suppose you would prefer the "scientific" explanation that there was nothing..and...look...look...t here it explodes! How amazing! That is logical, not so?...
Yes, I see your argument, it does make a lot of sense. Let us ignore the fact that experiment does not even verify the (in comparison to the creation of everything that is highly complex and ordered,finely tuned universe )relatively fairly simple action of creating living matter from inorganic matter.

But maybe you need to look at "science" and the fraud associated with that, which will give you a good laugh, if it was not so tragic.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#120 Apr 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Way back in the 80s, this BBC documentary explained in layman's terms how altruism has Evolved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =I71mjZefg8gXX
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link. As time is a bit of a problem for me, can you just briefly summarize for me? Thanks
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#121 Apr 23, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
We're not sure why you lie about god. Maybe its because you don't have any morals?
Maybe. Who knows.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#122 Apr 23, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.--Matthew 10:35-36
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ ......
Thanks, I will respond as soon as I have some time as your post does raise some good points. Have a great day!
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#123 Apr 23, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>So how many legs do insects have? That'd be four right?
I have known people to refer to some with two legs in that fashion.
Imhotep

Saint Petersburg, FL

#124 Apr 23, 2013
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks, I will respond as soon as I have some time as your post does raise some good points. Have a great day!
G'day mate

There is something from down under that I think you shall appreciate. ;)

Your valued opinion is appreciated

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch...
CunningLinguist

Winter Garden, FL

#125 Apr 23, 2013
The Ten Commandments – A simple logic problem

1. I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

The first commandment has God, who describes himself as a "jealous God," proclaim by fiat that only he is to be worshipped. All other Gods are to be shunned, and the proper penalty for worshipping Gods other than the biblical God, as the Bible itself repeatedly makes clear, is summary execution, without trial or investigation.

"If your brother, your own mother's son, or your son or daughter, or your wife, or your closest friend, entices you in secret, saying,'Come let us worship other gods'- whom neither you nor your fathers has experienced... do not assent... but take his life. Let your hand be first against him to put him to death, and the hand of the rest of the people thereafter. Stone him to death, for he sought to make you stray from the lord your god... Thus all of Israel will hear and be afraid, and such evil things will not be done again in your midst" (Deuteronomy 13:7-12).

You can easily see repeatedly, the biblical commandment not to kill cannot be taken as an absolute moral command, and was not even intended to be such by the author of Genesus.

The Biblical God in fact commands the death penalty for a whole slew of offenses, such being homosexual (Lev. 20:13), being a witch (Ex. 22:18), saying bad things about Yahweh (Lev. 24:16), worshipping gods other than Yahweh (Deut. 17:2-5 RSV), not being a virgin on your wedding day (Deut. 22:20-21), striking one's parents or being a stubborn and rebellious son (Ex. 21:17 , Lev. 20:9), bestiality (Ex. 22:19, Lev. 20:15-16), working or performing prohibited activities on the seventh day of the week (Ex. 31:14-15; Num 15:36). Not only does the bible command the death penalty repeatedly, many biblical patriarchs were murderers, yet were praised by Yahweh as righteous people.

Abraham not only submitted to the divine command to stab his own son to death, but sent his mistress Hagar and his illicit son Ishmael into the wilderness to an almost certain death. Luckily for Hagar and Ishmael, Yahweh intervenes at the last minute.

Moses was a murderer, and incited others to murder as well. After some members of the camp took to worshipping a God other than Yahweh, in this case a golden calf, Moses, speaking with Yahweh's authority, commanded his own people to kill each other in a wild, indiscriminate bloodbath.

"Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men" (32:26-28).

This is the same God who, according to Christian evangelists and apologists, is a morally perfect entity, providing the sole ground and justification for all human moral values. But how can the theological God, who is all-loving and morally perfect, be reconciled with the consistent Old Testament portrayal of God as angry, jealous, vengeful and murderous? If God is a morally perfect being, and if all the actions of a morally perfect being are morally perfect actions, then all the actions attributed to God in the bible must be morally perfect. Thus the fundamentalist logic forces one to admit that accepted moral evils such as infanticide, gerontocide, genocide and slavery are actually morally perfect actions when their God performs them.

Go figure, I must have missed something in the translateion huh?

We can examine #2 if you wish but the results be just as silly.

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