20+ Questions for Theists
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#229 Jun 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
The first four commandments are all about killing the competition.
Nothing to do with helping people or doing the right thing. They are all about the church covering its arse.
There is nothing of value in the first four commandments.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"
<quoted text>
LOL
Thinking

Beaminster, UK

#230 Jun 18, 2014
I also think the first four commandments are laughable.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>LOL

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#231 Jun 18, 2014
Andre wrote:
My friend, you have no concept whatsoever of the Christian faith at all as it requires just the opposite of what you suggest (self indulgence). Thus you are "fighting" Christianity on false grounds.
But coming back to the main point , you have yet to tell me on what objective grounds you determine something to be right/wrong. Please answer that and do not introduce red herrings.
most of us who do not believe in your christian god, know all about your christian god, which is why we do not believe in it.

in fact most non believers, know your christian god better than those who claim to worship it.

the point the other poster is making about "wasting time" is that if your god was all you believers claim it is, then those first 4 commandments would not be necessary. which makes them a waste of time.

no one is "fighting" christerdom. believers fight with each other, which is freaking funny for us non believers to witness!!!!!!!!!!
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#232 Jun 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
I also think the first four commandments are laughable.
<quoted text>
In the first instance, I am really sorry about that LOL. It was uncalled for and unkind.
"Laughable"?. Exactly. To you it may seem like that. To Christians however, this would form part of the core of his/her life and as you may know this also transpires from Jesus' comment :
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
So far from being "laughable", my friend, this fear of the Lord (reverence) is central to the Christian faith.
As David wrote in the Psalms : Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
This is echoed by one of the wisest men that ever lived:
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
and from Ecclesiastes:
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

So far from being of little importance, this is of great importance.

We all have gods. Mostly it is ourselves (even Maslow's hierarchy of needs put "self actualization at the top.)

You must really have great day!!
Thinking

Beaminster, UK

#234 Jun 19, 2014
Now you've changed the order.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>In the first instance, I am really sorry about that LOL. It was uncalled for and unkind.
"Laughable"?. Exactly. To you it may seem like that. To Christians however, this would form part of the core of his/her life and as you may know this also transpires from Jesus' comment :
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
So far from being "laughable", my friend, this fear of the Lord (reverence) is central to the Christian faith.
As David wrote in the Psalms : Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
This is echoed by one of the wisest men that ever lived:
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
and from Ecclesiastes:
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
So far from being of little importance, this is of great importance.
We all have gods. Mostly it is ourselves (even Maslow's hierarchy of needs put "self actualization at the top.)
You must really have great day!!
Andre

Cape Town, South Africa

#235 Jun 20, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Now you've changed the order.
<quoted text>
Thinking wrote:
Now you've changed the order.
<quoted text>
It is a coherent whole.
But basically you will agree that that which does not make sense to you/ is regarded by you as of no value,
(1)is not by implication without value at all
(2)has not been proven to be incorrect by any objective standard.
Let's put this behind us and maybe address one or two of the initial questions. Let us maybe consider one to which a relatively objective answer may be given:
3 Why is so much of our universe intelligible without any appeal to supernatural agency?
It seems evident to me that we were given the capacity to understand much of the universe, laws etc. See :Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.(dianoia- understanding). Thus belief in God is not purely a case of "blind faith", but includes an intellectual acceptance of what is stated about God and the world we live in.
It does include faith, but also sufficient evidence to substantiate an intellectual acceptance of God. This is borne out by the fact that many of the great scientists (in the past and the present) were/are committed Christians.There is al false impression created that Christians are "anti-science", which of course is a lot of nonsense.
That is not to accept that the ID chaps are Christian by implication.
An illustration would be abiogenesis - which still rests on speculation, rather than fact - despite a fairly attempt to solve the "riddle". Dawkins even suggests that life was "seeded" by little green men. Now you can either accept that God created life as the Bible states, or have to rely on conjecture and speculation and statistically accepted as "impossible" chance.
Why does the history of science contains numerous examples of naturalistic explanations replacing supernatural ones and no examples of supernatural explanations replacing naturalistic ones?
The following is an excerpt from http://defendingiraniandemocracy.wordpress.co...
"When you look at the history of what we know about the world, you see a noticeable pattern. Natural explanations of things have been replacing supernatural explanations of them. Like a steamroller. Why the Sun rises and sets. Where thunder and lightning come from. Why people get sick. Why people look like their parents. How the complexity of life came into being. I could go on and on."
is an excerpt from http://defendingiraniandemocracy.wordpress.co...
Now I will not argue that any of the points are wrong (although one may make a case against on or more), I would like to find out if you agree with any of then, and if so, substantiate your claim with special reference to the Bible. I am sure you may argue the complexity of life? If so, please explain in layman's terms so I can also understand.
PS (Just for fun, look at what we presently think we know about a "simple" thing like lightning, mentioned above)
Thinking

Beaminster, UK

#236 Jun 20, 2014
No. christians cherry pick all the time. Which is just as well because there is a lot of bad stuff in the bible to be avoided.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text><quoted text>It is a coherent whole.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#237 Jun 21, 2014
Andre wrote:
Now I will not argue that any of the points are wrong (although one may make a case against on or more), I would like to find out if you agree with any of then, and if so, substantiate your claim with special reference to the Bible. I am sure you may argue the complexity of life? If so, please explain in layman's terms so I can also understand.
PS (Just for fun, look at what we presently think we know about a "simple" thing like lightning, mentioned above)
Why should anyone base an argument on a book of mythology?

Of course you believe your mythology is "real" - you're a believer and encultured into your religion.
CunningLinguist

Windermere, FL

#238 Jun 22, 2014
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>In the first instance, I am really sorry about that LOL. It was uncalled for and unkind.
"Laughable"?. Exactly. To you it may seem like that. To Christians however, this would form part of the core of his/her life and as you may know this also transpires from Jesus' comment :
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
So far from being "laughable", my friend, this fear of the Lord (reverence) is central to the Christian faith.
As David wrote in the Psalms : Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
This is echoed by one of the wisest men that ever lived:
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
and from Ecclesiastes:
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
So far from being of little importance, this is of great importance.
We all have gods. Mostly it is ourselves (even Maslow's hierarchy of needs put "self actualization at the top.)
You must really have great day!!
I am having a great day thank you!

I would really like to be able to believe your holy manual(the Bible of many versions).

But you see I tend to think in the real world rather than the supernatural one.

I would be an instant convert if your religion could produce any evidence that a man named Moses including his famous 10 Commandments ever actually existed historically outside of your holy manuals.

When the current political climate climate in Egypt calms down I suggest you tour the antiquities you'll notice a distinct absence of Moses and entourage.

Egyptian history doesn't record any history the Bible speaks of relative to Moses in Egypt.

Here is a informative site has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with Egypt and it's ancient treasures.

Too bad Moses didn't make a scene is isn't it?

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses...
Andre

Cape Town, South Africa

#239 Jun 24, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why should anyone base an argument on a book of mythology?
Of course you believe your mythology is "real" - you're a believer and encultured into your religion.
Kindly supply say two or three examples of what is stated in the bible as fact that has clearly been shown to be false.That should be easy?
Andre

Cape Town, South Africa

#240 Jun 24, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
I am having a great day thank you!
I would really like to be able to believe your holy manual(the Bible of many versions).
But you see I tend to think in the real world rather than the supernatural one.
I would be an instant convert if your religion could produce any evidence that a man named Moses including his famous 10 Commandments ever actually existed historically outside of your holy manuals.
When the current political climate climate in Egypt calms down I suggest you tour the antiquities you'll notice a distinct absence of Moses and entourage.
Egyptian history doesn't record any history the Bible speaks of relative to Moses in Egypt.
Here is a informative site has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with Egypt and it's ancient treasures.
Too bad Moses didn't make a scene is isn't it?
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses...
No my friend, facts will in any case not “convert” you to Christianity. In the unlikely event that it does happen, it will be an intellectual assent only, but not necessarily a real conversion. Conversion is of the heart and starts with realising our sinfulness before a holy God, and repenting of it.
As far as questioning the existence of Moses and the Ten Commandments is concerned, absence of proof does not prove that it did not exist.
The fact is that new finds support rather than disprove the Biblical record. Such is the case for instance with initial claims that Moses could not have written the Pentateuch as there was no written language at the time. Later discoveries proved this claim wrong. But if you have evidence proving the Bible wrong in what is stated as fact, I will “resign” from Christianity. That is how sure and convinced I am.

Historical records prove that Jesus lived, yet this is also disputed.

Evidence suggests that it is not a case of “proof of a fact” that will convince a person, but a case of “do not want to believe” that prevents the person from surrendering his/her life to Christ.
Even in Bible times, proof does not convert. This is evidenced by the failure of Israel to “stick to God”, despite the fact that they have seen wonders – Red sea crossing, manna from heaven, water from a rock etc etc. That is the human condition. We observe God’s grace and kindness and the wonderful works of his hands, yet we still rebel against Him.

One of the great things about the Bible for me is it not pretending to have super spiritual people. There is no pretence of being “unreal” in holiness. Abraham lied to protect his own skin, Jacob deceived his father, David slept with another man’s wife and had him killed. In the new testament it is evident that some of the apostles had fairly serious disagreements. This is life.
Despite this, God in his mercy accepts us into his Kingdom, on the basis of Jesus' blood spent for you.
You will notice from the parable of the feast
Mat 22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
All are invited to the “wedding feast”, the good and the bad. It is not whether we “deserve” anything, but only by grace that we receive eternal life.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast
Thinking

Beaminster, UK

#241 Jun 24, 2014
Birds have four legs. Wrong.
Insects have just four legs. Wrong.
Rabbits chew the cud. Wrong.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Kindly supply say two or three examples of what is stated in the bible as fact that has clearly been shown to be false.That should be easy?
Andre

Cape Town, South Africa

#242 Jun 24, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Birds have four legs. Wrong.
Insects have just four legs. Wrong.
Rabbits chew the cud. Wrong.
<quoted text>
I assume you refer to Leviticus?
Just as an intro. These chaps knew exactly what animals looked like (unlike most of us who very seldom -if at all- see some of these things) and would hardly make a mistake in describing these little critters? These chaps lived very close to nature and the Israelites will hardly adhere to rules that a obviously misinformed person gave to them as “coming from God”. These were a stiffnecked people and often went astray (See i.e golden calf)
But being more specific
Birds: Lev 11:20?
See the same word used in Deut 14:19.“Creeping thing that flieth” Mere taxonomy and translation.
Insects 4 legs?
See difference between legs and feet. This may have floored you somewhat and you may even get back to your seat on all fours!
Rabbits and cud
Carolus Linnaeus (Apparently the chap to whom we owe the modern system of classification) initially classified a rabbit as a ruminant – possibly because it does not regurgitate as for instance a cow does, but chews its own feces (soft pellets after they have retired to their burrows)?. Also thus not an error but just possibly taxonomy based on observation that can be used by the people to identify the species referred to.
Thinking

Poole, UK

#243 Jun 24, 2014
The same cu*ts said you couldn't use the same furniture as menstruating women!

What a bunch of morons it was that wrote your bible.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>
I assume you refer to Leviticus?
Just as an intro. These chaps knew exactly what animals looked like (unlike most of us who very seldom -if at all- see some of these things) and would hardly make a mistake in describing these little critters? These chaps lived very close to nature and the Israelites will hardly adhere to rules that a obviously misinformed person gave to them as “coming from God”. These were a stiffnecked people and often went astray (See i.e golden calf)
But being more specific
Birds: Lev 11:20?
See the same word used in Deut 14:19.“Creeping thing that flieth” Mere taxonomy and translation.
Insects 4 legs?
See difference between legs and feet. This may have floored you somewhat and you may even get back to your seat on all fours!
Rabbits and cud
Carolus Linnaeus (Apparently the chap to whom we owe the modern system of classification) initially classified a rabbit as a ruminant – possibly because it does not regurgitate as for instance a cow does, but chews its own feces (soft pellets after they have retired to their burrows)?. Also thus not an error but just possibly taxonomy based on observation that can be used by the people to identify the species referred to.
Andre

Roodepoort, South Africa

#245 Jun 26, 2014
Thinking wrote:
The same cu*ts said you couldn't use the same furniture as menstruating women!
What a bunch of morons it was that wrote your bible.
<quoted text>
A little modern medical research will explain to you why.
Thinking

Poole, UK

#246 Jun 26, 2014
A little modern medical research will explain to you why the bible's stance against menstruating women is retarded.
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>A little modern medical research will explain to you why.
Andre

Cape Town, South Africa

#247 Jun 27, 2014
Thinking wrote:
A little modern medical research will explain to you why the bible's stance against menstruating women is retarded.
<quoted text>
Your comment somewhat off the mark my friend. It is a health issue and not discriminatory practice. Do yourself a favour and study it - you will see the error is on your side..
You will know that recent discoveries confirm the Bible rather than disprove it. The exodus of Israel from Egypt has been questioned. Now George Stephen, a satellite-image analyst found indications that a massive number of people apparently traveled the route described in the Bible. It is not conclusive proof of course, but you will continue to see that all new discoveries will support rather than disprove the Bible to an honest observer.
There are also documentary evidence of artifacts resembling broken wheels and axes at the bottom of the Red Sea.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#248 Jun 27, 2014
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Kindly supply say two or three examples of what is stated in the bible as fact that has clearly been shown to be false.That should be easy?
Everything. It's a book of mythology. Everything it explains about biology and physics is dead wrong - and magic and morality.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#249 Jun 27, 2014
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your comment somewhat off the mark my friend. It is a health issue and not discriminatory practice. Do yourself a favour and study it - you will see the error is on your side..
You will know that recent discoveries confirm the Bible rather than disprove it. The exodus of Israel from Egypt has been questioned. Now George Stephen, a satellite-image analyst found indications that a massive number of people apparently traveled the route described in the Bible. It is not conclusive proof of course, but you will continue to see that all new discoveries will support rather than disprove the Bible to an honest observer.
There are also documentary evidence of artifacts resembling broken wheels and axes at the bottom of the Red Sea.
Women menstruating is healthy.

All recent archaeological evidence disproves the bible's stories. The Jews were never in Israel, the pyramids were not built by slaves. Exodus is entirely fictional.

Even the nation of Israel acknowledges that.
Andre

Cape Town, South Africa

#250 Jun 27, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Women menstruating is healthy.
All recent archaeological evidence disproves the bible's stories. The Jews were never in Israel, the pyramids were not built by slaves. Exodus is entirely fictional.
Even the nation of Israel acknowledges that.
You miss the point with woman. Do some research and you will see. To help you a little, look into bacteria.
Please provide evidence for your claim that the exodus is fictional -supported by proper evidence. It is easy to make sweeping statements. Just supply the proof my friend. The facts, as you would insist is the only proof.
You may know that all claims previously "disproving" the Bible has on further evidence supported it. Take writing at the time of Moses, Walls of Jericho. I will post a few more in a while as my time is a little limited at this stage.

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