Why Atheism Will Replace Religion

Aug 27, 2012 Full story: News24 14,391

Please note that for this article "Atheism" also includes agnostics, deists, pagans, wiccans... in other words non-religious.

You will notice this is a statement of fact. And to be fact it is supported by evidence (see references below). Now you can have "faith" that this is not true, but by the very definition of faith, that is just wishful thinking. Full Story

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#14329 Aug 29, 2013
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
And, lo and behold, these ignorant atheist zealots are indeed once again fuming at my “stupid attitude”!
You’re a prophet, MUQ!
<quoted text>
An “all of a sudden” human extinction would be so much more preferable to a long painful human extinction through drought, famine, disease, war, and the inevitable genocides for remaining food and water supplies....
<quoted text>
Scientists can’t make any predictions about what’s going to happen because there is absolutely no precedent for the escalating amounts of CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere. According to ice core graphs of past climate cycles. the Earth should have started turning into a giant snowball about 150 years ago. Why that hasn’t happened yet really is a big mystery.
<quoted text>
It’s a good thing to have a skeptical attitude and consider the source regarding any kind of predictions and to bear in mind that sometimes there’s a huge gap between what news reporters write and the findings scientists have actually reported. Scientists gather evidence, study it and make predictions i.e.“best guesses”. Those”best guesses” are what science is about and no predictions, especially about weather, are ever carved in stone.
You keep saying 'giant snowball about 150 years ago'... that's absurd. The resolution of your 'ice core CO2 graphs' is way too low to even BEGIN to draw a conclusion like that. That's not even a 'tick' on the planet's ecological clock. You're thinking is much too narrow.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#14330 Aug 29, 2013
"Assuming that ice growth mainly responds to insolation and CO2 forcing, this analogy suggests that the end of the current interglacial would occur within the next 1500 years, if atmospheric CO2 concentrations did not exceed 240±5&#8201;ppmv."

from this:

" http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop/ncurr... ;

Of course, CO2 at 240 ppmv ain't gonna happen unless everybody suddenly stops eating cabbage.

If you are REALLY interested in Global Warming and it's relationship to CO2 concentration see the article ...

"Human Flatulence: The REAL Culprit" in the April issue of Scientific American.

<Just kidding ... made that last bit up>

“Liberty & Justice For All”

Since: Aug 11

United States of America

#14331 Aug 29, 2013
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
The article alludes that progress from 'stone tools' to 'flaked stone tools' itself took 2.5 million years. Our more direct ancestors went into the "Space Age" in the same interval. Fits rather well with what I was trying to say. My bubble remains intact.
The article contradicts ALL of your assertions about tool use among chimpanzees:

"A paper published in the May 24 issue of the journal Science documents the first archaeological examination of a non-human primate workplace and establishes new links between the use of tools by chimpanzees and similar developments among human ancestors (hominids). The research was supported in part by the National Science Foundation (NSF). The research site is in the Tai Forest, about 375 miles west of the capital of the Ivory Coast, Abidjan.

A team from George Washington University (GWU) and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology of Leipzig, Germany (which provided the primary funding for the work) studied a site where chimpanzees had carried in stone hammers from nearby areas to open nuts on tree roots, which they used as anvils. The researchers last fall, recovered 479 stone pieces, chips of granite, laterite, feldspar and quartz broken from the hammers...."

Blow some more bubbles....

“Liberty & Justice For All”

Since: Aug 11

United States of America

#14332 Aug 29, 2013
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep saying 'giant snowball about 150 years ago'... that's absurd. The resolution of your 'ice core CO2 graphs' is way too low to even BEGIN to draw a conclusion like that. That's not even a 'tick' on the planet's ecological clock. You're thinking is much too narrow.
The Little Ice Age ended around 1850.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

The climate cycles shown on the ice core graphs going back 400,000 years indicate temperatures should have continued to drop not rise.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

Since: Aug 11

United States of America

#14333 Aug 29, 2013
RHill wrote:
"Human Flatulence: The REAL Culprit" in the April issue of Scientific American.
<Just kidding ... made that last bit up>
It's actually a credible theory. At last count, over a hundred million Americans are now morbidly obese and making daily contributions to atmospheric greenhouse gases,,,,

But yeah, fossil fuels and cows are still at the top of the list of culprits.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#14334 Aug 29, 2013
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
The article contradicts ALL of your assertions about tool use among chimpanzees:
"A paper published in the May 24 issue of the journal Science documents the first archaeological examination of a non-human primate workplace and establishes new links between the use of tools by chimpanzees and similar developments among human ancestors (hominids). The research was supported in part by the National Science Foundation (NSF). The research site is in the Tai Forest, about 375 miles west of the capital of the Ivory Coast, Abidjan.
A team from George Washington University (GWU) and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology of Leipzig, Germany (which provided the primary funding for the work) studied a site where chimpanzees had carried in stone hammers from nearby areas to open nuts on tree roots, which they used as anvils. The researchers last fall, recovered 479 stone pieces, chips of granite, laterite, feldspar and quartz broken from the hammers...."
Blow some more bubbles....
What?!?!

You said "...and some of those tools indicate other animals had more evolved brains than humans right up until the clock struck 12,000 BP".

Those other tools are what? Rocks. Incidental pieces broke off. Wow.

Those other animals are who? Chimps. Not Hominids. Not ancestral. Not "more evolved brains". Maybe more closely related to godbots. Yeah, I can buy that.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#14335 Aug 29, 2013
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
The Little Ice Age ended around 1850.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
The climate cycles shown on the ice core graphs going back 400,000 years indicate temperatures should have continued to drop not rise.
Okay. I'm glad they put "it was not a true ice age" close to the top.

I would pay particular attention to the "Volcanic Activity" section.

We are, after all, talking about a 'chaotic system' on a planet literally chock full of butterflies. You got to take it all with a grain of salt.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

Since: Aug 11

United States of America

#14336 Aug 29, 2013
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
What?!?!
You said "...and some of those tools indicate other animals had more evolved brains than humans right up until the clock struck 12,000 BP".
Those other tools are what? Rocks. Incidental pieces broke off. Wow.
Those other animals are who? Chimps. Not Hominids. Not ancestral. Not "more evolved brains". Maybe more closely related to godbots. Yeah, I can buy that.
Chimps are classified as hominids.

Hominid - the group consisting of all modern and extinct Great Apes (that is, modern humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orang-utans plus all their immediate ancestors).

Hominin - the group consisting of modern humans, extinct human species and all our immediate ancestors (including members of the genera Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus).

Chimps are estimated to be about 4 to 8 million years old, The first modern humans are estimated to date back to 200,000 BP via those controversial computer models developed at UC Berkeley for tracking mtDNA ancestry.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#14337 Aug 29, 2013
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
Chimps are classified as hominids.
Hominid - the group consisting of all modern and extinct Great Apes (that is, modern humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orang-utans plus all their immediate ancestors).
Hominin - the group consisting of modern humans, extinct human species and all our immediate ancestors (including members of the genera Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus).
Chimps are estimated to be about 4 to 8 million years old, The first modern humans are estimated to date back to 200,000 BP via those controversial computer models developed at UC Berkeley for tracking mtDNA ancestry.
Oops. Naturally I meant 'not Hominins'. I'll be more careful in the future.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#14338 Aug 30, 2013
ezdzit wrote:
And, lo and behold, these ignorant atheist zealots are indeed once again fuming at my “stupid attitude”!

You’re a prophet, MUQ!
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
02. The beginning and end of humans shall be in the same way! They appeared 'all of a sudden" and they shall be gone 'All of a sudden"…. And gathered to give "accounts of their lives" to their Creator.
An “all of a sudden” human extinction would be so much more preferable to a long painful human extinction through drought, famine, disease, war, and the inevitable genocides for remaining food and water supplies....
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
03. Yes humans and life on this earth shall not survive for ever….their end is coming soon, may be "sooner" than any scientist can "predict"
Scientists can’t make any predictions about what’s going to happen because there is absolutely no precedent for the escalating amounts of CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere. According to ice core graphs of past climate cycles. the Earth should have started turning into a giant snowball about 150 years ago. Why that hasn’t happened yet really is a big mystery.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
04. Scientists can gather whatever data they can get…. But they should not be in "Predicting business".
Not after so many "Howlers" they have made in pass.
In 1800 s they "predicted" that Britain has coal only for a few decades!!
In 1980 s they "predicted" that Saudi Arabia has oil only for 25-30 years!!
Almost every "prediction": of these scientists has been proven wrong.
And why should they only predict "negative" things, why not any thing positive?
It’s a good thing to have a skeptical attitude and consider the source regarding any kind of predictions and to bear in mind that sometimes there’s a huge gap between what news reporters write and the findings scientists have actually reported. Scientists gather evidence, study it and make predictions i.e.“best guesses”. Those”best guesses” are what science is about and no predictions, especially about weather, are ever carved in stone.
Ans.

Thanks for your answers.

I still think that after all the data scientists are gathering from the earth, all they are coming up is scary and negative state of affairs in future.

I am yet to see any "positive" interpretation of data from these scientists.

And yes be sure, despite all these famines, wars over water, and over exploiting each other's wealth, the earth of Humans and earth shall be "All of a Sudden" and not thru "Natural Causes".

This is "Prediction" from the Creator of Earth and Humans. This is called as "Last Day" and which is mentioned in almost every religion in this world.
Dak-Original

London, UK

#14339 Aug 30, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
Thanks for your answers.
I still think that after all the data scientists are gathering from the earth, all they are coming up is scary and negative state of affairs in future.
I am yet to see any "positive" interpretation of data from these scientists.
And yes be sure, despite all these famines, wars over water, and over exploiting each other's wealth, the earth of Humans and earth shall be "All of a Sudden" and not thru "Natural Causes".
This is "Prediction" from the Creator of Earth and Humans. This is called as "Last Day" and which is mentioned in almost every religion in this world.
Deliberately blind supporting a convoluted blind! 2003 Genome Project ended all all that creation nonsense in all religions. OH! MUQ!
NB: Real GOD, I believe, will punish the likes of you on whatever day GOD happens to select.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

Since: Aug 11

United States of America

#14340 Aug 30, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
Thanks for your answers.
I still think that after all the data scientists are gathering from the earth, all they are coming up is scary and negative state of affairs in future.
I am yet to see any "positive" interpretation of data from these scientists.
Please clarify what you mean by “positive” interpretation of the data?

The scientists who work for the oil, coal, and timber industries have been interpreting the climate data in a “positive” way non-stop for about 15 years now. They’re flooding the internet with corporate funded research that says the increased levels of atmospheric CO2 mean plants are going to grow bigger, greener and faster on less water....and there’s nothing to worry about. Is that what you want to hear?

According to the UN Environment Programme, the Earth is in the midst of a mass extinction of life. Scientists estimate that 150-200 species of plant, insect, bird and mammal are becoming extinct every day. This rate is nearly 1,000 times the "natural" or "background" rate and greater than the mass extinction that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. How can data like this be interpreted in a “positive” way, my friend?
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
And yes be sure, despite all these famines, wars over water, and over exploiting each other's wealth, the earth of Humans and earth shall be "All of a Sudden" and not thru "Natural Causes".

This is "Prediction" from the Creator of Earth and Humans. This is called as "Last Day" and which is mentioned in almost every religion in this world.
I agree there’s definitely going to be a “Last Day” but whether it comes “All of a Sudden” or over a long painful period of drought, famine, disease, wars, genocide, etc. is an unknown. If some fool launches nuclear bombs and other fools retaliate by launching their own nuclear bombs the “Last Day” will likely come “All of a Sudden”.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#14342 Aug 30, 2013
every game wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, it does tend to put a kink in your drive and intentions to be evil, doesn't it?
On the contrary... sometimes religion is very evil, and that is when it becomes a very big problem.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#14343 Aug 31, 2013
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
Please clarify what you mean by “positive” interpretation of the data?
The scientists who work for the oil, coal, and timber industries have been interpreting the climate data in a “positive” way non-stop for about 15 years now. They’re flooding the internet with corporate funded research that says the increased levels of atmospheric CO2 mean plants are going to grow bigger, greener and faster on less water....and there’s nothing to worry about. Is that what you want to hear?
According to the UN Environment Programme, the Earth is in the midst of a mass extinction of life. Scientists estimate that 150-200 species of plant, insect, bird and mammal are becoming extinct every day. This rate is nearly 1,000 times the "natural" or "background" rate and greater than the mass extinction that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. How can data like this be interpreted in a “positive” way, my friend?
<quoted text>
I agree there’s definitely going to be a “Last Day” but whether it comes “All of a Sudden” or over a long painful period of drought, famine, disease, wars, genocide, etc. is an unknown. If some fool launches nuclear bombs and other fools retaliate by launching their own nuclear bombs the “Last Day” will likely come “All of a Sudden”.
By "positive" attitude I mean, why they should ONLY calculate when the existing stocks would end....why cant the "predict" more finds.... on insufficiency of data to calculate existing value of finds.

Why do they not give "hope" to human kind that future is bright and lot of good things are in stock?

You know the difference between a Pessimist and an Optimist and a Realist.

Scientists could be a realist, but we see them ALWAYS on the side of Pessimism and predicting bad things for earth and its residents.

I am yet to see any "Optimistic" comment from these scientists on future of human race and earth.

What is your view on this?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#14344 Aug 31, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
By "positive" attitude I mean, why they should ONLY calculate when the existing stocks would end....why cant the "predict" more finds.... on insufficiency of data to calculate existing value of finds.
Why do they not give "hope" to human kind that future is bright and lot of good things are in stock?
You know the difference between a Pessimist and an Optimist and a Realist.
Scientists could be a realist, but we see them ALWAYS on the side of Pessimism and predicting bad things for earth and its residents.
I am yet to see any "Optimistic" comment from these scientists on future of human race and earth.
What is your view on this?
The comments of a lying theist on an atheist forum will alway be followed by:

"why are you attacking science when you cannot even prove the god you're here to lie to us about?"

"its is insulting for you to realise that chasing your hallucinations and encouraging others to do the same, all the while running from the proof that you're a liar is any way to live?"
Dak-Original

London, UK

#14345 Aug 31, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
The comments of a lying theist on an atheist forum will alway be followed by:
"why are you attacking science when you cannot even prove the god you're here to lie to us about?"
"its is insulting for you to realise that chasing your hallucinations and encouraging others to do the same, all the while running from the proof that you're a liar is any way to live?"
It is hilarious to note that head in the sand MUQ calls scientists pessimists and he as a follower of human created religion as an optimist. He w)as responding to fellow believer who talked about a definite (LOL!) incidence in future when all humans will die on one day.
Humans could die like that due to some calamity but even a calamity would mostly take effect in gradual steps. However, where is optimism in that?

Most of the scientists who are more optimistic about future but it is their duty to warn the public about public activity (e.g. population explosion) and other matters so that corrective action can be taken. This MUQ told me on another forum that population control is wrong for India since each child born with two hand and two legs can fend for themselves!

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#14346 Aug 31, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
At the end of day, weak people become religious because atheism is true. Reality is just too scary for weak & dishonest minds to accept.
Nicely said! We are all born Atheists and if we are weak and become biblicists it is all down hill from there. Usually parents are the ones who screw their kids up telling them Jesus, Santa, God, the Easter Bunny etc. are all real.

Santa has a message for all the little children of the world:

SANTA: Dear Children, Some day you will learn everything there is to know about Santa, and on that day I want you to remember everything the adults told you about Jesus.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#14347 Aug 31, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary... sometimes religion is very evil, and that is when it becomes a very big problem.
GOD: Romans 13:
1 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

HITLER: My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who, once lonely with only a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were, and calling me to fight them, and who, so help me, was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. With boundless love, as a Christian and as a man, I read the passages which relate how the Lord finally gathered His strength and made use of the whip in order to drive the usurers, the vipers, and cheats from the temple. Today 2,000 years later, I recognize with deep emotion Christ's tremendous fight for this world against the Jewish poison. I recognized this most profoundly by the fact that He had to shed his blood on the cross for his fight. As a Christian it is not my duty to permit myself to be cheated, but is my duty to be a champion of truth and of right.... As a Christian I owe something to my own people.... I am a veritable devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as our Lord did 2,000 years ago, against those who are pillaging and exploiting this poor people (the German people).... Two thousand years ago a man was likewise denounced by this particular race which today is denouncing and blaspheming everywhere.... That man was dragged into court and they said then: He is arousing the people! So he also was "agitating." And against whom? Against "God," they cried. Yes indeed he was agitating against the "god" of the Jews, for that "god" is money.(Munich, April 12, 1922; Voelkische Beobachter, April 22, 1922).

The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation was built up. They regard Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as a basis of national life.(Hitler to the German People: Feb. 1 1933).

I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not we that have deserted Christianity, it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity.... National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of real Christianity. And we have no other desire than to be true to that position.... These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.(Speech at Koblenz, Aug. 26, 1934).
Hitler was often asked why Nazis use the swastika and replied,
And when it is said to me as many have: How can you carry your heathenish symbol in the van of this struggle when the Christian Cross alone is called to lead it? To this I say: This symbol is not directed against the Christian Cross. On the contrary, it is the political manifestation of what the Christian Cross intends or must intend.... One should from the vary beginnings preserve this Cross from any political contact until the structure of these political parties again becomes worthy of association with this symbol....(Munich, Oct. 25, 1930, Voelkische Beobachter, Oct. 28, 1930).

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#14348 Aug 31, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>GOD: Romans 13:
1 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

HITLER: My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who, once lonely with only a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were, and calling me to fight them, and who, so help me, was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. With boundless love, as a Christian and as a man, I read the passages which relate how the Lord finally gathered His strength and made use of the whip in order to drive the usurers, the vipers, and cheats from the temple. Today 2,000 years later, I recognize with deep emotion Christ's tremendous fight for this world against the Jewish poison. I recognized this most profoundly by the fact that He had to shed his blood on the cross for his fight. As a Christian it is not my duty to permit myself to be cheated, but is my duty to be a champion of truth and of right.... As a Christian I owe something to my own people.... I am a veritable devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as our Lord did 2,000 years ago, against those who are pillaging and exploiting this poor people (the German people).... Two thousand years ago a man was likewise denounced by this particular race which today is denouncing and blaspheming everywhere.... That man was dragged into court and they said then: He is arousing the people! So he also was "agitating." And against whom? Against "God," they cried. Yes indeed he was agitating against the "god" of the Jews, for that "god" is money.(Munich, April 12, 1922; Voelkische Beobachter, April 22, 1922).

The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation was built up. They regard Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as a basis of national life.(Hitler to the German People: Feb. 1 1933).

I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not we that have deserted Christianity, it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity.... National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of real Christianity. And we have no other desire than to be true to that position.... These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.(Speech at Koblenz, Aug. 26, 1934).
Hitler was often asked why Nazis use the swastika and replied,
And when it is said to me as many have: How can you carry your heathenish symbol in the van of this struggle when the Christian Cross alone is called to lead it? To this I say: This symbol is not directed against the Christian Cross. On the contrary, it is the political manifestation of what the Christian Cross intends or must intend.... One should from the vary beginnings preserve this Cross from any political contact until the structure of these political parties again becomes worthy of association with this symbol....(Munich, Oct. 25, 1930, Voelkische Beobachter, Oct. 28, 1930).
I don't know what the meaning of this post was, but it takes nothing away from the comment that you responded to. Religion...(any) of them...can become dangerous

“Liberty & Justice For All”

Since: Aug 11

United States of America

#14349 Aug 31, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
By "positive" attitude I mean, why they should ONLY calculate when the existing stocks would end....why cant the "predict" more finds.... on insufficiency of data to calculate existing value of finds.
Why do they not give "hope" to human kind that future is bright and lot of good things are in stock?
You know the difference between a Pessimist and an Optimist and a Realist.
Scientists could be a realist, but we see them ALWAYS on the side of Pessimism and predicting bad things for earth and its residents.
I am yet to see any "Optimistic" comment from these scientists on future of human race and earth.
What is your view on this?
Here's the latest polling reports on public attitudes in the US regarding environmental issues.

http://www.pollingreport.com/enviro.htm

US environmental scientists have identified the problems caused by human activities and have clearly stated that the window of opportunity is still open for humans to get involved in the solutions. There's lots of hope that humans can make a difference but you can see by the polls the US public attitudes are fairly evenly divided between those people who understand the problems and want to live in the solutions and those people who are in denial that there are problems or don't want hear about any kind of solutions that will inconvenience them or limit economic growth.

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