Why Atheism Will Replace Religion

Aug 27, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: News24

Please note that for this article "Atheism" also includes agnostics, deists, pagans, wiccans... in other words non-religious.

You will notice this is a statement of fact. And to be fact it is supported by evidence (see references below). Now you can have "faith" that this is not true, but by the very definition of faith, that is just wishful thinking.

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#13123
Jul 10, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. Branding people has been a specialty of you people. The moment you fix a label on him, all his arguments and thinking are put into dustbin.
02. I did not comment on your personal status, only on your thinking process.
03. You are right brother, very few people in Western Country receive any religious information.
What they receive is faulty information based on Bible and that is why they loose interest in what they get.
Media and work style, leave no room for "religion" in work place, this is another reason of people loosing contact with religion.
It is just a name and a few rituals and some annual feasts and celebrations (which have become too commercialized).
04. There is no hindrance on you gaining as much knowledge about the Universe as you can.
60 or 70 years are not sufficient to gather all the info out there, but one should gather as much as we can.
This info is good, but it should not sidetrack you from knowing what is actual purpose of your life!!
If you start with a right frame of mind, every thing in this Universe will bring you closer to your Merciful Creator, with wrong frame of mind the same info will take you away and away from your Creator.
It is only the matter of outlook, like positive and negatives of the same picture!!
We are not enemies, we have different purpose.
Simple coward with no proof of god, who lies about god as much as he can to spread his fearful cult of ignorants

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

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#13124
Jul 10, 2013
 
DNF wrote:
oops. my bad.
"Your posts remind me of trying find the clean end of a turd!" was directed at the haters, not all the people on this thread.
Well, that's a relief! BTW, there always seems to be a pointy end and a round end. Pretty easy to spot!

“Think&Care”

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#13126
Jul 10, 2013
 
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do we feel compelled to 'quantize' everything? What could be more fluid or 'analog' than the flow of time or the curvature of space-time. Must everything be packetized to fit into a GUT?
The easiest way to see the necessity in this situation is to imagine a particle in a superposition of two elementary states. We *know* this type of thing is possible and, in fact, it is done in the lab all the time.

But, masses produce gravity and gravity is a curvature of spacetime. So the gravity produced by a particle in a superposition will also be in a superposition of two states. That alone means that quantum effects are relevant.

Once we have that, the basic observables, like space and time, have to become quantum operators for consistency. But this means that the measured values of those observables (which are the eigenvalues of those operators) will be quantized.

Now, this is very general and there are several ways this reasoning could go wrong. But once you accept that particles are quantum objects, and once you see that they can affect space and time (this is gravity), then space and time also become quantum objects. So, even if they are not quantized (not discrete values), there is still the requirement to have them be quantum objects (described by non-commuting operators).

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#13127
Jul 10, 2013
 
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
That is rather interesting, though we already feel that way with Zit because it's become so popular of a tell these days. Especially when someone is so hooked on a belief, they will not denounce it in any way.
I followed that link right back to some of the original stuff. It doesn't look like they've made much progress. Of course, once they 'went public' with their techniques they kind of invalidated themselves. I'm sure every Tom, Dick and Hairy criminal on the planet knows to say "I didn't do it" by now.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

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#13128
Jul 10, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The easiest way to see the necessity in this situation is to imagine a particle in a superposition of two elementary states. We *know* this type of thing is possible and, in fact, it is done in the lab all the time.
But, masses produce gravity and gravity is a curvature of spacetime. So the gravity produced by a particle in a superposition will also be in a superposition of two states. That alone means that quantum effects are relevant.
Once we have that, the basic observables, like space and time, have to become quantum operators for consistency. But this means that the measured values of those observables (which are the eigenvalues of those operators) will be quantized.
Now, this is very general and there are several ways this reasoning could go wrong. But once you accept that particles are quantum objects, and once you see that they can affect space and time (this is gravity), then space and time also become quantum objects. So, even if they are not quantized (not discrete values), there is still the requirement to have them be quantum objects (described by non-commuting operators).
Thanks! I can see that. You must be a very good teacher. Thank you for that as well! I was kind of visualizing it like how we 'digitize' everything to ease computation or make it compatible with the binary world of computers, like we've done with our music and video. Something is always lost in the process though. Purist Audiophiles still insist upon vinyl and vacuum tubes!

“Think&Care”

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#13129
Jul 10, 2013
 
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks! I can see that. You must be a very good teacher. Thank you for that as well! I was kind of visualizing it like how we 'digitize' everything to ease computation or make it compatible with the binary world of computers, like we've done with our music and video. Something is always lost in the process though. Purist Audiophiles still insist upon vinyl and vacuum tubes!
One of the common misunderstandings about quantum mechanics is that 'quantized' means the same as 'having chunks of the same size'. As an example, the quantum states of the hydrogen atom are 'quantized' in the sense of only having very specific discrete values. But these values made up of things of the same size! In fact, the energy levels (in appropriate units) have values 1, 1/4, 1/9, 1/16,....

Now, with photons of a given frequency, the energy states are even placed: 1,2,3,4,.... But this does not happen in all quantum systems. In particular, even if time is quantized, it does not follow that there is a smallest unit of time.

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#13130
Jul 10, 2013
 
aaargh:...'these values *are not* made up'

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#13131
Jul 10, 2013
 
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
She won't say it.
It goes against her beliefs to reject that which she believes is right.
I've tried 5 times, I've tried to give her a chance to bring this whole argument to an end. Yet she has proven she does not want to stop being called a pedophile. Probably because she is one.
That would be my take on it too, still by trying you are outing the hiprocrasy in her postings.
spudgun

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#13132
Jul 10, 2013
 
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
Barring some catastrophe, the Internet has made 'free thinking' accessible to (almost) the whole world. It has given a voice to those who, in olden times, would have remained forever muted. Pandora's box has been thrown open and it is full of knowledge. The world is intoxicated upon it and who knows where it's going to stop.
Yes the internet can be a force for good, consigning myths and legends to the trash bin of history. At least in the developed world.

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
As all of your quotes say, we do not know. The reason we do not know? because the quantum of time, if it exists, is incredibly small, probably around 10^{-43} second. We have, at this point, no way to measure times this small.
That does not mean time is a figment of the mind. It means it is physical, but we do not fully understand it.
Einstein disagrees:

"Space and time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live." Time – the time that we know through clocks and calendars – was invented. Space and time are models by which we think, not conditions under which we live.”

Albert Einstein - Encyclopaedia Britannica

“Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it”.

Albert Einstein - Haper’s
Thinking

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Einstein also said there wasn't a beginning to the universe.

Looks like he wasn't always right, blubber.
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
Einstein disagrees:
"Space and time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live." Time – the time that we know through clocks and calendars – was invented. Space and time are models by which we think, not conditions under which we live.”
Albert Einstein - Encyclopaedia Britannica
“Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it”.
Albert Einstein - Haper’s

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, Scientific American is not nearly the quality science magazine it once was. While it once had articles written by the actual scientists and was directed to giving accurate information, it is now a popular science magazine that is written primarily by journalists. In the goal to make money, it destroyed itself.
More to the point. In modern physics, space and time together become part of the dynamic geometry of the universe. Both space and time are affected by and affect matter and energy, so they become real quantities that have to be addressed. But, spacetime comes as a whole: all of space and all of time are together in this geometry. No 'right now', as your article says.
This does not mean that time is merely a construct of our minds. In fact, the evidence says that time and space are quite physical things that are crucial parts of our universe.
If you really want to continue this discussion, you should learn some actual physics. You will find that time is a fundamental part of our universe. Even those who think that space and time are emergent from other phenomena (suggested by the first part of your post), see time as a physical thing whose properties need to be explained.
Your belief that time is a real thing, a physical thing, and has some kind of independent existence outside the human mind is delusional, bubba. For you this belief is obviously a sacred cow. Evidently you're still stuck in the Newtonian concept of time that Einstein disproved decades ago.

Time is not physical, it has no physical or chemical properties and it’s not an invisible force like gravity. It doesn't act on or interact with anything. Time is just our mental perception of the rate at which the "now" changes and the rate of change of this "now" is neither constant nor fixed. Newton was brilliant but he was wrong about time.
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ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
Einstein disagrees:
"Space and time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live." Time – the time that we know through clocks and calendars – was invented. Space and time are models by which we think, not conditions under which we live.”
Albert Einstein - Encyclopaedia Britannica
“Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it”.
Albert Einstein - Haper’s
You are no Einstein, Mary.

Time is not a social construct, but religion is. If religion accompanies free will and helps teach peace and tolerance it can be a force for good in the world. If religion is adhered to as an absolute, it becomes rigid, pompous and oppressive, like you.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
Your belief that time is a real thing, a physical thing, and has some kind of independent existence outside the human mind is delusional, bubba. For you this belief is obviously a sacred cow. Evidently you're still stuck in the Newtonian concept of time that Einstein disproved decades ago.
Time is not physical, it has no physical or chemical properties and it’s not an invisible force like gravity. It doesn't act on or interact with anything. Time is just our mental perception of the rate at which the "now" changes and the rate of change of this "now" is neither constant nor fixed. Newton was brilliant but he was wrong about time.
You like to quote Einstein a lot, yet you apparently disagree with his own notion that space time is made of four identical dimensions, one of them being time. Please explain if you can ..... I'll wait.

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ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
Your belief that time is a real thing, a physical thing, and has some kind of independent existence outside the human mind is delusional, bubba. For you this belief is obviously a sacred cow. Evidently you're still stuck in the Newtonian concept of time that Einstein disproved decades ago.
On the contrary, I base my position on how physics is actually done. This includes the physics that Einstein did. In particular, spacetime geometry is what Einstein studied in his theory of general relativity. While *absolute* time, in the sense of Newton, is gone, time is a physical thing that can be measured and be affected by matter.
Time is not physical, it has no physical or chemical properties and it’s not an invisible force like gravity. It doesn't act on or interact with anything. Time is just our mental perception of the rate at which the "now" changes and the rate of change of this "now" is neither constant nor fixed. Newton was brilliant but he was wrong about time.
No, time is NOT merely our mental perception. If that were the case, then times shorter than our ability to perceive them would be meaningless. But, for example, our visual perceptions cannot distinguish events that are closer together than 1/30 of a second. Our auditory perception can do better, but still fails for time intervals less than 1/10,000 of a second. But it is standard in physics to work with time intervals less than a nano-second. We now produce laser bursts lasting less than a femto-second. This is far, far below any possibility of perception by the human senses. But it still makes sense. And that shows that time is not merely a human mental construct.

Even more, we know that matter and energy can change the spacetime geometry (this is gravity), so the geometry is not simply a mental construct, but an active dynamic part of the universe. This is part of Einstein's contribution.

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Calypso17 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are no Einstein, Mary.
Time is not a social construct, but religion is. If religion accompanies free will and helps teach peace and tolerance it can be a force for good in the world. If religion is adhered to as an absolute, it becomes rigid, pompous and oppressive, like you.
It's kinda flattering in a freaky weird kind of way that you're apparently trying to "investigate" me, but....not even close, bubba.

Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha

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Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
You like to quote Einstein a lot, yet you apparently disagree with his own notion that space time is made of four identical dimensions, one of them being time. Please explain if you can ..... I'll wait.
I don't disagree with Einstein's notion. I disagree with your description of Einstein's notion.

"Space and time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live." Time – the time that we know through clocks and calendars – was invented. Space and time are models by which we think, not conditions under which we live.”

Albert Einstein - Encyclopaedia Britannica

“Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it”.

Albert Einstein - Harper’s

Relax, take a deep breath and focus on the words "no independent existence", bubba.

Let me know when you finally get it.

BTW Richard Feynman described time as a "direction" like you did in your post, i.e. up, down.

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary, I base my position on how physics is actually done. This includes the physics that Einstein did. In particular, spacetime geometry is what Einstein studied in his theory of general relativity. While *absolute* time, in the sense of Newton, is gone, time is a physical thing that can be measured and be affected by matter.
<quoted text>
No, time is NOT merely our mental perception. If that were the case, then times shorter than our ability to perceive them would be meaningless. But, for example, our visual perceptions cannot distinguish events that are closer together than 1/30 of a second. Our auditory perception can do better, but still fails for time intervals less than 1/10,000 of a second. But it is standard in physics to work with time intervals less than a nano-second. We now produce laser bursts lasting less than a femto-second. This is far, far below any possibility of perception by the human senses. But it still makes sense. And that shows that time is not merely a human mental construct.
Even more, we know that matter and energy can change the spacetime geometry (this is gravity), so the geometry is not simply a mental construct, but an active dynamic part of the universe. This is part of Einstein's contribution.
Wrong. That's YOUR interpretation, your mental reconstruction, of Einstein's contribution. You really are entrenched in your time delusion thing, and I do sympathize with how hard it must be for you to abandon it, but if you ever want to know and experience reality, finding that place in your head where you understand and know that time is an illusion is a necessary first step.

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ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't disagree with Einstein's notion. I disagree with your description of Einstein's notion.
"Space and time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live." Time – the time that we know through clocks and calendars – was invented. Space and time are models by which we think, not conditions under which we live.”
Albert Einstein - Encyclopaedia Britannica
“Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it”.
Albert Einstein - Harper’s
Relax, take a deep breath and focus on the words "no independent existence", bubba.
Let me know when you finally get it.
BTW Richard Feynman described time as a "direction" like you did in your post, i.e. up, down.
Perhaps you would do better to actually use the *science* that Einstein did rather than the popular quotes he made. In Einstein's theory of general relativity, time and space are merged into spacetime, which is a physical thing that interacts with matter and energy. Different observers will have different coordinate systems and thereby measure different values for length and time intervals. But Einstein was primarily interested in those aspects of spacetime that are NOT dependent on the coordinate system of the observer (the invariants).

Time is one of the coordinates in any coordinate system. It is defined in terms of the direction vector in spacetime that points 'into the future'. Different observers may have different definitions here, but time is still a factor in all coordinate systems because it is a physical aspect of reality that needs to be considered.

Even more, the 'past light cone' and the 'future light cone' define the past and future for any point and are invariants. They are also crucial for an understanding of causality. So, again, time is a physical thing, not just a mental construct.

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. Branding people has been a specialty of you people. The moment you fix a label on him, all his arguments and thinking are put into dustbin.
02. I did not comment on your personal status, only on your thinking process.
03. You are right brother, very few people in Western Country receive any religious information.
What they receive is faulty information based on Bible and that is why they loose interest in what they get.
Media and work style, leave no room for "religion" in work place, this is another reason of people loosing contact with religion.
It is just a name and a few rituals and some annual feasts and celebrations (which have become too commercialized).
04. There is no hindrance on you gaining as much knowledge about the Universe as you can.
60 or 70 years are not sufficient to gather all the info out there, but one should gather as much as we can.
This info is good, but it should not sidetrack you from knowing what is actual purpose of your life!!
If you start with a right frame of mind, every thing in this Universe will bring you closer to your Merciful Creator, with wrong frame of mind the same info will take you away and away from your Creator.
It is only the matter of outlook, like positive and negatives of the same picture!!
We are not enemies, we have different purpose.
Good post, MUQ

Well said!

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