Creation? TzimTzum?
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#2 Nov 16, 2013
So I'll put this to you, before God there was nothing (assuming) God came into being and he is the only thing to exist. God exists and nothing else, there is no absence, free space, anything that can be defined except him (or anything defined as nothing, but to say this is somewhat contradictory...true?). If I could ask God a question it would be this... "How long did it take for you to realise what you are?"
Continuing.... it is said that God created by emanation, I assume this would be by projecting his substance into a void in order to bring about creation by separation from himself. This he could have done but how would he bring about void within himself? The sephiroth of Ain, Ain Soph and Ain Soph Aur are interperated by us to be states of negative existance. Again this can come across as contradictory, example -1 is a number yes it is a negative number but none the less it is a number - it doesnt 'not exist' same could be said for 0 I suppose.
Now assuming that God is infinite and cannot have any physical by his inherant nature, it can only come about if he imposes limits on himself. God cannot be a positive or negative existence solely within himself, he would contain both and yet be above either. Same way he is neither exclusively good or evil, he can be both and yet is above either. He is in perfect balance because he is perfect himself, as he is perfect he can have no fault by his standards because he is the standard because he is perfect. And yet mankind will hold him up to their standards even though they are not perfect and yet they deem themselves to be because of their physical status, again this is an example of reversal of order.
If we look at order for all of the 4 worlds we see it as this...
God > the 3 Ain sephiroth > the Tree of Life (Kether and Chokmah have no vice, the other sephiroth have both virtue and vice) and Death (said that only 4 sephiroth exist and they have no virtue) of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
The 3 Ain sephiroth are said to have neither virtue or vice, as far as I know no-one has ever been able to work with these sephiroth as they have no colour or even God name associated with them. They dont seem to be accessible by anyone but God and maybe thats how its meant to be.
So how did all creation of existance come about?
So you have God the purely spiritual, he has a thought or a desire/need (Atziluth). He then envisions how this desire/need can be met by himself and within his thought/imagination envisions a possible solution... a creation (Briah). He then thinks how this creation would function with or without his help or supervision (Yetzirah) and finally he brings about the end product (Assiah).
If God created via emanation that would involve using his essence within his own essence, so if we say that God withdrew his essence into himself to create the void in order to infuse his essence back into that void to create. Wouldnt that be merely a temporary state as he is infinite and he couldnt 'dispose' of portions of himself to create a void? We could look at the laws of thermodynamics, example... You can burn a piece of wood, but have you destroyed the wood or make it non existant? No, all you have done is changed the vibrational rate of that wood by applying energy (fire) and turned that wood into smoke and ash. Apart from that the only thing you have actually 'destroyed' is the time that the tree has taken to grow to provide the wood that you burnt. Regardless of the time involved the tree is still subject to the laws of thermodynamics because it is a physical being where as God is not. And time is a symbolic function in the laws of thermodynamics, it is a symbolic measurement of a non physical factor and cannot be destroyed by physical means.
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#3 Nov 16, 2013
So how does God create? While you can describe it as an act of emanation, I will put forward he creates by acts of contractions. Isaac Luria (as I remember) described it as Tzimtzum, as God is infinite and eternal essence he could only do two things which really are one. To create a void he would have to contract his essence in what we would see as a physical boundary, and to do this would to an extent be described as condensing his essence (but how is that possible for he is infinite?). In a physical sense we can relate to and somewhat interperate condensing and contracting because we are physical beings in a physical world, but we can also somewhat comprehend the other 3 worlds (non physical) because we are not purely physical beings because the other 3 worlds had a factor in how we come to exist today. We as physical beings are the end result of the order of the other 3 worlds.

In magic we are looking to alter or change our circumstances, to do this we need to manipulate time so well as seek to alter vibrational rates in order to bring about a physical result. If God truly created a void and this is where we exist, how could we speak to him in ritual, submission or even magic? He cannot be absent from anywhere that we can imagine, I suppose we are like pets in that we only know of what our owner shows to us.
Still....we can always seek to dig under the fence to see what is out there, but as humans we can always seek to perform magic. And to seek to do it while we have the time in Assiah.

Read my ebook...it's free! Creed of Assiah http://creedofassiah.webs.com
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#4 Nov 16, 2013
There are no gods. Man made gods and often in man's image, like the Abrahamc kind. Theologies are what non-believers call mythologies...
godchecker.com

Australia is usually quite sensible about religion, e.g. "According to Norris and Inglehart (2004), 25% of Australians do not believe in a god or gods". The USA seems to be trying to sustain levels of superstition more typical of Waziristan or the Middle East.
Siro

Ryde, Australia

#5 Nov 16, 2013
EdSed wrote:
There are no gods. Man made gods and often in man's image, like the Abrahamc kind. Theologies are what non-believers call mythologies...
godchecker.com
Australia is usually quite sensible about religion, e.g. "According to Norris and Inglehart (2004), 25% of Australians do not believe in a god or gods". The USA seems to be trying to sustain levels of superstition more typical of Waziristan or the Middle East.
You are offering an opinion, not anything with a verified fact
Never heard of Norris/Inglehart

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#6 Nov 17, 2013
Siro wrote:
<quoted text>
You are offering an opinion, not anything with a verified fact
Never heard of Norris/Inglehart
And still god isn't real and the liar Siro can't prove his made up god.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#7 Nov 17, 2013
Siro wrote:
So how does God create? While you can describe it as an act of emanation, I will put forward he creates by acts of contractions. Isaac Luria (as I remember) described it as Tzimtzum, as God is infinite and eternal essence he could only do two things which really are one. To create a void he would have to contract his essence in what we would see as a physical boundary, and to do this would to an extent be described as condensing his essence (but how is that possible for he is infinite?). In a physical sense we can relate to and somewhat interperate condensing and contracting because we are physical beings in a physical world, but we can also somewhat comprehend the other 3 worlds (non physical) because we are not purely physical beings because the other 3 worlds had a factor in how we come to exist today. We as physical beings are the end result of the order of the other 3 worlds.
In magic we are looking to alter or change our circumstances, to do this we need to manipulate time so well as seek to alter vibrational rates in order to bring about a physical result. If God truly created a void and this is where we exist, how could we speak to him in ritual, submission or even magic? He cannot be absent from anywhere that we can imagine, I suppose we are like pets in that we only know of what our owner shows to us.
Still....we can always seek to dig under the fence to see what is out there, but as humans we can always seek to perform magic. And to seek to do it while we have the time in Assiah.
Read my ebook...it's free! Creed of Assiah http://creedofassiah.webs.com
You need to see a doctor because you are suffering from the mental illness of faith.
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#8 Nov 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to see a doctor because you are suffering from the mental illness of faith.
Yay!.....You give it to me Bad Boy Bubby!

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#9 Nov 17, 2013
Siro wrote:
<quoted text>
Yay!.....You give it to me Bad Boy Bubby!
Standard creationist reaction when your ego is hurt. Same as educated what saying "bwahaha" every time someone insulted his pride.

Same with Lincoln who says "LOL" everytime someone corners him.

Most creationists are programmed to laugh when they get cognitive dissonance. Its how the human body reacts to "holy sh*t he's right! But my ego!! let me laugh it off..."

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#10 Nov 17, 2013
Your reaction tells all Siro - just another pre-programmed creationist troll with no evidence, lying his tits off.
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#11 Nov 20, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
Your reaction tells all Siro - just another pre-programmed creationist troll with no evidence, lying his tits off.
You say evolution is a fact?
Care to prove it?
Dare to explain it in your own words?
Not just say 'its a fact because a doctor said so' or 'its true because some guy on TV said its true'
.
I bet you couldnt even make a page
Stick to screaming at pigeons Bad Boy Bubby......
Siro

Ryde, Australia

#15 Nov 20, 2013
In other words Bad Boy Bubby you hold something to be absolutely true even though you cannot explain it or even explain why you believe it to be true.
.
Sucks to be you....srsly........
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#17 Nov 23, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Siro proof of god too scared to study evolution himself! wants his origins spoonfed to him by atheist gods instead of working hard for knowledge!
You working hard for knowledge?!?!
You wouldnt work in an iron lung
Do you still spend your time between posts by going into Big Ben and striking your head with a saucepan every hour on the hour?
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#18 Nov 26, 2013
You know siro's imam doesn't like him asking sensible questions.
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Siro proof of god too scared to study evolution himself! wants his origins spoonfed to him by atheist gods instead of working hard for knowledge!

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