Census data reveal there are 4million fewer Christians and one in four is now an atheist

Dec 11, 2012 Full story: Mail on Sunday 400

Data from last year's census today revealed the stunning decline of religion in the UK - with the number of Christians dropping by more than 4million.

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John

Brisbane, Australia

#61 Dec 12, 2012
Yes, I'm an educated modern Christian like 99% of Christians have been for centuries.
The Old Testament was assembled out of the ruins of Jewish civilisation and a lot is missing. Some of the myths in it go back to the bronze age and I don't take them to be literally true.
The New Testament is largely a history book written by men whose names appear at the beginning of the texts.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the histories of Christ written by men who had spoken people who had heard Jesus himself and who had access to records that no longer exist.
Most of the rest is a history of the early church.
Revelation is a prophecy of things to come written by a man who had a vision.
I don't take a real lot of notice of Paul's commentaries as anything other than one man's fancy. I take his interpretations of Christianity as seriously flawed even though he was one of the founders of the organised church. His texts however are preserved as a history of what he did and thought.
The essence of Christianity is in the four gospels.
If you respect what Christ said and believe in the salvation of mankind, literally or metaphorically, through Christ you are a Christian.

FIXED
coontz

London, UK

#62 Dec 12, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are not a Christian.
Are there still xtians that believe it literally? Other than nutty US Protestants.
rio

Beckenham, UK

#63 Dec 12, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>I fully agree. Now can we stop male child mutilation for non-clinical reasons? At least won't you compromise and admit that religionists shouldn't make the tax-payer complicit in the abuse by using public funds? I think it is morally wrong.
Why do you want to stop circumcision, and why do you insist in calling it "child mutilation", "abuse", etc...?
That in itself is aggressive and judgemental.
Is that another angle for atheists to attack religionists?
Nobody forces it on you, but just let other people to do what they wish! Or is that alien to atheists?

Don't start about the "taxpayers complicity" and "the abuse by using public funds"! Your taxes, like mine, are used for plenty of things we don't approve of, so you can stop that line of attack, right now!

There are many things I think are morally wrong, but we just have to accept them, don't we? Or maybe you think you are morally superior?
It's very dangerous when people start thinking like that...
John

Brisbane, Australia

#64 Dec 12, 2012
CrimeaRiver wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the dark ages in Britain would've ended around the 11th Century which then led to the middle ages after the Norman Conquest.
The term Dark Ages refers not to pagan influences but the relative lack of progress made after the Romans left in the 5th Century. It took nearly 900years before we resurrected sewerage systems and sanitary toilets with running water flushing systems. In fact Britain experienced a period of regress rather than progress.
You also have to remember that many Scientists of the time had to profess their love of God to avoid being burned at the stake. Those who didn't were perseuted for their beliefs.
Galileo was put under house arrest for believing in Jupiters moons
Charles Darwin had to profess his love of the Church in order to publish the anti-Christian theories of Evolution
Isaac Newton renounced his faith privately but not publicly to avoid persecution.
And while the Pagans may not be known for their scientific feats, we still marvel at Stone Henge and ask ourselves how they did it and why?
War and displacement and depopulation caused technological stagnation in some areas for a few centuries. The technology of the high middle ages was actually better in most ways than the Romans.
Yes, the mixing of church and state was a bad thing and after the separation of church and state again during the enlightenment Christianity retuned to what it was in the beginning. The establishment in some countries felt very threatened by independent artists and scientists and threatened them to proclaim love of god (actually loyalty to the state) but the tyrants always lost because most people were on the side of the artists and scientists.
Just because tyrants have tried to use Christianity for their own power does not mean the religion is bad. Almost all religions have been abused in this way.
If there are no religions to abuse like in Communist Russia tyrants just invent one, like the Stalinist cult of personality. That was something much worse than any medieval tyrant.
CrimeaRiver

South Ockendon, UK

#65 Dec 12, 2012
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I'm an educated modern Christian like 99% of Christians have been for centuries.
The Old Testament was assembled out of the ruins of Jewish civilisation and a lot is missing. Some of the myths in it go back to the bronze age and I don't take them to be literally true.
The New Testament is largely a history book written by men whose names appear at the beginning of the texts.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the histories of Christ written by men who had spoken to Jesus himself and who had access to records that no longer exist.
Most of the rest is a history of the early church.
Revelation is a prophecy of things to come written by a man who had a vision.
I don't take a real lot of notice of Paul's commentaries as anything other than one man's fancy. I take his interpretations of Christianity as seriously flawed even though he was one of the founders of the organised church. His texts however are preserved as a history of what he did and thought.
The essence of Christianity is in the four gospels.
If you respect what Christ said and believe in the salvation of mankind, literally or metaphorically, through Christ you are a Christian.
I love Christians (and Muslims, Jews, Hindus) who are pragmatic about their faith. Who understand that while their religion beautiful it is also open to scrutiny and criticism.

For example - The Gospels are attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John but its unlikely that the Biblical text we see was written by them. Its far more likely that their version of events were handed down to their own disciples who handed it their disciples etc etc and then finally compiled, vetted, edited and approved 300 years after Christ's death at the Council of Nicaea where Christianity in its earliest organised form was delivered to the world
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#66 Dec 12, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
...There are many things I think are morally wrong, but we just have to accept them, don't we? Or maybe you think you are morally superior?
It isn't dangerous to think like that? I think where someting seems morally objectionable or children need protection it is best to speak-up.
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
It's very dangerous when people start thinking like that...
But to be superstitious is never problematic?

I am not interested in religion, only in confronting the harm it does.
CrimeaRiver

South Ockendon, UK

#67 Dec 12, 2012
John wrote:
<quoted text>
War and displacement and depopulation caused technological stagnation in some areas for a few centuries. The technology of the high middle ages was actually better in most ways than the Romans.
Yes, the mixing of church and state was a bad thing and after the separation of church and state again during the enlightenment Christianity retuned to what it was in the beginning. The establishment in some countries felt very threatened by independent artists and scientists and threatened them to proclaim love of god (actually loyalty to the state) but the tyrants always lost because most people were on the side of the artists and scientists.
Just because tyrants have tried to use Christianity for their own power does not mean the religion is bad. Almost all religions have been abused in this way.
If there are no religions to abuse like in Communist Russia tyrants just invent one, like the Stalinist cult of personality. That was something much worse than any medieval tyrant.
Agree - I am an atheist with Buddhist tendencies but I believe that there is a place for religion in society.

In fact, faith is the purest form of law and order. It makes followers police their own behaviour and attitudes to fellow humans.

But organised religion fails because it needs hierarchical authoritative structures. So the role of Pope (for example) is mired by the power struggle in the vatican to be elected. It is the highest accolade (barring sainthood) a Catholic can attain so immediately becomes coveted which in turn immediately contradicts the 10 Commandments.

The race to become Pope flies in the face of true religion. Cathoilc Clergy's duty is to his flock, not to his own career.

Historically, Popes have done ugly thing to secure the papacy and even uglier things to remain in power and squash dissent.

Lest not forget the blind eye they turned to the holocaust
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#68 Dec 12, 2012
John wrote:
..Some of the myths in it go back to the bronze age ..
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the histories of Christ written by men who had spoken people who had heard Jesus himself ..
Without the old testament, the new makes no sense. In Christian teaching, original sin in the garden of eden cause the separation of God from man. Jesus was the sacrifice to redeem mankind from original sin and restore God's relationship with man. Without a literal garden of eden and adam and eve, there is no fall of man, and hence no need for redemption. The whole Jesus story is built up on the garden of eden mythology. Can you agree that Christian theology is fatally flawed now we understand the Genesis stories to be myth.

Also the gospel accounts are not reliable history but four contradictory letters written by anonymous Christians decades after the events which they purport to record. i.e. the evidence is wholly unreliable, so you cannot say for definate whether Jesus existed or if he did, what was recorded as his words is reliable. This is why, to me, Christianity is not a valid belief for a critical thinker.
I can read

Falkirk, UK

#69 Dec 12, 2012
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeh great!
Now sick new age cults like veganism and sick foreign cults like islam will try to fill the vacuum.
Do you loony left culture destroyers have any sense at all?
Does this mean the idiot who laughs at people committing suicide thinks he is a christian?

I think your religion is trollish.
I can read

Falkirk, UK

#70 Dec 12, 2012
John wrote:
Yes, I'm an educated modern Christian
Fail. On 3 counts.
ivana

London, UK

#71 Dec 12, 2012
I can read wrote:
<quoted text>
Does this mean the idiot who laughs at people committing suicide thinks he is a christian?
I think your religion is trollish.
Isn't modern Christianity all about hypocrisy? Claiming all one's sins will be forgiven is the height of bigotry.

Christian (with gormless cheesy smile): "Hey, I know what is right and wrong as someone else told me. But it doesn't matter anyway as I have the magic formula that will somehow get me into some groovy place, but only once I'm dead."

Jesus must be turning in his grave, turning to atheism.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#72 Dec 12, 2012
John wrote:
<quoted text>Atheism is just another religion.
The statement "there is no god" is just as arrogant and conceited as any other religious dogma.
Like "There is a god"?
rio

UK

#73 Dec 12, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>It isn't dangerous to think like that? I think where someting seems morally objectionable or children need protection it is best to speak-up.
<quoted text>But to be superstitious is never problematic?
I am not interested in religion, only in confronting the harm it does.
Well, millions of boys get circumcised every year in the world.
Are you suggesting they all need "protection"? LOL
I persomally don't see what harm can be done there.

Are you just another busy body who wants to drive us towards the nanny state? Or maybe you try to attack what you perceive as "superstition" from another angle with carefully selected vocabulary (abuse, mutilation) destined to antagonise the "religionists"?

Strange but when children are really abused, you never see an outcry from the atheist lobby.
lolol

Albuquerque, NM

#74 Dec 12, 2012
I think anyone who believes that people answering intrusive census questions believe in santa too.

I am sure more people than myself answered 'none of your business' to census takers about my religous affiliations. No telling what they wrote down in answer, but I doubt it was what I told them.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#75 Dec 12, 2012
BS.
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, millions of boys get circumcised every year in the world.
Are you suggesting they all need "protection"? LOL
I persomally don't see what harm can be done there.
Are you just another busy body who wants to drive us towards the nanny state? Or maybe you try to attack what you perceive as "superstition" from another angle with carefully selected vocabulary (abuse, mutilation) destined to antagonise the "religionists"?
Strange but when children are really abused, you never see an outcry from the atheist lobby.
David UK

London, UK

#76 Dec 12, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>Well, millions of boys get circumcised every year in the world.
Are you suggesting they all need "protection"? LOL
I persomally don't see what harm can be done there.

Are you just another busy body who wants to drive us towards the nanny state? Or maybe you try to attack what you perceive as "superstition" from another angle with carefully selected vocabulary (abuse, mutilation) destined to antagonise the "religionists"?

Strange but when children are really abused, you never see an outcry from the atheist lobby.
Your some backwards inbred pal, do no one forces circumcision on these babies then eh?, do they ask to have it done?, and atheists dont raise a fuss when kids get abused?, where did you get that idea from Einstein?, atheists are at the catholic churches throat for all their pedo scandals!, & I bet you can't understand why religion; christianity mainly is dying in the UK !
Thinking

Andover, UK

#77 Dec 12, 2012
In the case of the England and Wales Census you can just skip the religion question. It's the only question you're allowed to skip.
lolol wrote:
I think anyone who believes that people answering intrusive census questions believe in santa too.
I am sure more people than myself answered 'none of your business' to census takers about my religous affiliations. No telling what they wrote down in answer, but I doubt it was what I told them.
ivana

London, UK

#78 Dec 12, 2012
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, millions of boys get circumcised every year in the world.
Are you suggesting they all need "protection"? LOL
According to the UN they do.
rio

UK

#79 Dec 12, 2012
David UK wrote:
<quoted text>
Your some backwards inbred pal, do no one forces circumcision on these babies then eh?, do they ask to have it done?, and atheists dont raise a fuss when kids get abused?, where did you get that idea from Einstein?, atheists are at the catholic churches throat for all their pedo scandals!, & I bet you can't understand why religion; christianity mainly is dying in the UK !
You are a know-it-all jerk! Any medical procedure on a child under age is always "imposed" on him.
Also strange that circumcisions have been performed legally for centuries in many countries without any question.
Suddenly the atheist lobby feels strong and start attacking religions (and even non religious people like me) from the angle of circumcision, expecting to get it ban, I presume? I suppose one could see undertones of anti-semitism and Islamophobia behind that as well.

Well, if we replace the alledged religious intolerance by the atheist intolerance now, we are certainly not making progress, are we? To be honest, I don't know which one could be worse.

I don't have any dog in that fight, but it's obvious that most of the criticism about child abuse within the Catholic Church comes from the followers themselves challenging the hierarchy. So now the atheists pretend they are leading that crusade?
rio

UK

#80 Dec 12, 2012
ivana wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the UN they do.
Can you give us links on that, because I cannot find anywhere the UN pronouncing itself on circumcision.

The World Health Organisation is ambivalent about it, and many medical authorities have come in favour of circumcision, notably in Africa in the fight against HIV/AIDS and other STD.

So, I really would like to know when the UN debated about circumcision.

As a matter of interest, the German parliament has just voted a law protecting the practice of circumcision, after some people took surgeons to court and tries to have it banned.

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