Census data reveal there are 4million fewer Christians and one in four is now an atheist

Dec 11, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Mail on Sunday

Data from last year's census today revealed the stunning decline of religion in the UK - with the number of Christians dropping by more than 4million.

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241 - 260 of 400 Comments Last updated Nov 15, 2013
John

Brisbane, Australia

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#253
Dec 13, 2012
 

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NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
The principle of reciprocity is found in all of the world's religions and ethical codes, both ancient and modern. Many are state in the negative, i.e., do not to others what you would not have them do to you. Others are positive--treat others as you would have them treat you. Some teachers, Christ among them, expected more of people, i.e, going the extra mile, turning the other cheek, giving the cloak to the one who steals your coat.
I raise proactivity to the level or principle:
The most noble of human attributes are kindness, empathy, and generosity. Embracing them brings happiness, rejecting them leads to misery. Why suffer needlessly by making others suffer as well?
Oh yeh.
Find it for me in Islam.
John

Brisbane, Australia

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#254
Dec 13, 2012
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Exodus 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
Exodus 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
Exodus 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
<So it is okay to beat your slaves, just make sure that they don't die right away...>
Exodus 22:3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
Leviticus 22:11 But if the priest buy any soul with his money...
Leviticus 25:39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee ; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
25:40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile.
Leviticus 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
And of course, there are numerous passages in the NT wherein slaves are told to obey their masters and stay as good little slaves, but it is the Torah verses that establish what is and is not a sin. Clearly, slavery is not a sin.
These are all records of ancient Jewish laws, pre Christian.
The Old Testament records a lot of things done by people and lots of their laws often without commenting on the merits thereof.
Show me where it says god or especially Jesus approve of slavery.
John

Brisbane, Australia

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#255
Dec 13, 2012
 

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Thinking wrote:
How's your Latin, fuckwit?
<quoted text>
Yep, the atheist fundamentalist has no argument so he seethes.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#256
Dec 13, 2012
 

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John wrote:
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Hillel probably influenced Jesus.
The tradition that produced Christianity.
Still unique.
Actually, if you examine the things that Jesus allegedly said, and compare them with the teachings of the Hillel Pharisee school it is a VERY good fit. Where the NT has Jesus putting down "the Pharisees", it is the teachings of Hillel's rival, Shammai, that are being discredited. All in all, there is nothing unique about xianity.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#257
Dec 13, 2012
 

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John wrote:
<quoted text>
These are all records of ancient Jewish laws, pre Christian.
The Old Testament records a lot of things done by people and lots of their laws often without commenting on the merits thereof.
Show me where it says god or especially Jesus approve of slavery.
There is a reason that I post book, chapter and verse. Go look them up and read them in context. After all, that is the only way that you can understand anything in the Bible. What I quoted was specifically from the Torah, the books of the Laws of the God of the Bible. Anything that is in there is the law, anything that is not in there is can never be added. In point of fact, there are MANY verses within the Torah that very clearly state that NOTHING is to ever be added or taken out of the Laws, as put forth in the Torah. Slavery is in there, therefore, the God of the Bible says that slavery is okay.

Now, if you want to discuss the huge differences between the slavery that was considered acceptable in the Bible and the slavery that was practiced in the American South, fine, we can. But you cannot say that the Bible does not support the institution of owning slaves; to do so would clearly be a lie.
John

Brisbane, Australia

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#258
Dec 13, 2012
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, if you examine the things that Jesus allegedly said, and compare them with the teachings of the Hillel Pharisee school it is a VERY good fit. Where the NT has Jesus putting down "the Pharisees", it is the teachings of Hillel's rival, Shammai, that are being discredited. All in all, there is nothing unique about xianity.
I agree they are a good fit.
I never argued that Christ existed in a vacuum or that Christ didn't have colleagues who thought much as he did.
But Hillel and Christ are of the same single tradition, perhaps even the same school.
It is one tradition and therefore unique.
John

Brisbane, Australia

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#259
Dec 13, 2012
 

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a reason that I post book, chapter and verse. Go look them up and read them in context. After all, that is the only way that you can understand anything in the Bible. What I quoted was specifically from the Torah, the books of the Laws of the God of the Bible. Anything that is in there is the law, anything that is not in there is can never be added. In point of fact, there are MANY verses within the Torah that very clearly state that NOTHING is to ever be added or taken out of the Laws, as put forth in the Torah. Slavery is in there, therefore, the God of the Bible says that slavery is okay.
Now, if you want to discuss the huge differences between the slavery that was considered acceptable in the Bible and the slavery that was practiced in the American South, fine, we can. But you cannot say that the Bible does not support the institution of owning slaves; to do so would clearly be a lie.
The world of antiquity was awash with slavery just as the modern world is awash with a ruthless corporate capitalism.
We have slaves in all but name today but they are outsourced to the third world. The reason that shirt you are wearing cost only a few dollars at the store is because it was made by some slave who works for 50 cents an hour and is often a child bonded to a master.
I don't like this and probably you don't like this, but we will buy the shirts anyway because the "free trade" con has driven local manufacturers with free properly paid workers out of business and we need to be dressed. We are opposed to this and yet practicality means we will for the time being live with this.
The bible's tone is very anti-slavery and the laws of the Old Testament are generally concerned with preventing the abuse of slaves.
The New Testament tells the faithful to treat slaves as brothers.
The bible is not pro slavery.
busta

London, UK

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#260
Dec 13, 2012
 
Only very backward people would take heed of morality fairy tales written 2000-4000 years ago. Probably useful at the time it was written.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

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#261
Dec 13, 2012
 

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John wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yeh.
Find it for me in Islam.
From the hadith, the collected oral and written accounts of Muhammad and his teachings during his lifetime:

A Bedouin came to the prophet, grabbed the stirrup of his camel and said: O the messenger of God! Teach me something to go to heaven with it. Prophet said:“As you would have people do to you, do to them; and what you dislike to be done to you, don't do to them. Now let the stirrup go![This maxim is enough for you; go and act in accordance with it!]”
—Kitab al-Kafi, vol. 2, p. 146

“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”
—An-Nawawi's Forty Hadith 13 (p. 56)[54]

“Seek for mankind that of which you are desirous for yourself, that you may be a believer.”
—Sukhanan-i-Muhammad (Teheran, 1938)[55]

“That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind.”[55]

“The most righteous person is the one who consents for other people what he consents for himself, and who dislikes for them what he dislikes for himself.”[55]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Isla...
Thinking

Zeals, UK

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#263
Dec 13, 2012
 
Not me, however unlikely, there could be some form of god. Definitely not yours, though. Your god is total BS for damaged children.
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, the atheist fundamentalist has no argument so he seethes.
patsy_91

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#264
Dec 14, 2012
 

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Thinking wrote:
Your lot said "suffer little children", you sick bastards.
<quoted text>
The thing with the bible and why some Xtian churches didn't want just any idiot reading it was due to literacy. Your quote and your misunderstanding being a good example.

Jesus(whether a fictional character or not), with a little help of St Paul, as well as washing away the cultural aspect of Judaism merely added the Golden rule that wasn't expicit in the OT, and asked us to love our enemies. Without these two elements, the basis of the faith, one is a follower in name only - a box ticker.

The worst thing reading this thread is that I like to think of Americans as fundamentalist buffoons, due to our media it seems. Yet the two Americans who have contributed appear to be the only well versed, literate and tolerant people writing here. The rest of you are as naive as "little children". You should be glad that they suffer your ignorance.

Since: Jun 07

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#265
Dec 14, 2012
 

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John wrote:
<quoted text>
The world of antiquity was awash with slavery just as the modern world is awash with a ruthless corporate capitalism.
We have slaves in all but name today but they are outsourced to the third world. The reason that shirt you are wearing cost only a few dollars at the store is because it was made by some slave who works for 50 cents an hour and is often a child bonded to a master.
I don't like this and probably you don't like this, but we will buy the shirts anyway because the "free trade" con has driven local manufacturers with free properly paid workers out of business and we need to be dressed. We are opposed to this and yet practicality means we will for the time being live with this.
The bible's tone is very anti-slavery and the laws of the Old Testament are generally concerned with preventing the abuse of slaves.
The New Testament tells the faithful to treat slaves as brothers.
The bible is not pro slavery.
Oh look, it's another post from John with no proof of god in it.
CrimeaRiver

South Ockendon, UK

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#266
Dec 14, 2012
 

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Thinking wrote:
The six people I socialise with most of all: 2 English, 1 French, 1 Polish, 1 Russian, 1 American. Not reading too much into it, but the Brits are non-believers, whilst the non-Brits are all believers.
They all pay taxes to the UK and are the first to be angered by immigrants that don't want to integrate or locals that don't want to contribute.
<quoted text>
Immigrants are allowed, even encouraged to celebrate their religions, to keep their cuisine and hold on to their customs.

But to segregate themselves from wider society doesn't make sense, to reject British lifestyle in favour of their own is counter-community.

I just can't understand why someone would choose to move to another country and then live as if they were in their own.

This is not from a racist viewpoint, just a common sense one.
Thinking

Zeals, UK

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#267
Dec 14, 2012
 
Agreed- and I don't know why either.

It just creates self-fulfilling ghettos in a country of great opportunity for all, even in these tricky times.
CrimeaRiver wrote:
<quoted text>
Immigrants are allowed, even encouraged to celebrate their religions, to keep their cuisine and hold on to their customs.
But to segregate themselves from wider society doesn't make sense, to reject British lifestyle in favour of their own is counter-community.
I just can't understand why someone would choose to move to another country and then live as if they were in their own.
This is not from a racist viewpoint, just a common sense one.

Since: Jun 07

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#268
Dec 14, 2012
 

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CrimeaRiver wrote:
<quoted text>
Immigrants are allowed, even encouraged to celebrate their religions, to keep their cuisine and hold on to their customs.
But to segregate themselves from wider society doesn't make sense, to reject British lifestyle in favour of their own is counter-community.
I just can't understand why someone would choose to move to another country and then live as if they were in their own.
This is not from a racist viewpoint, just a common sense one.
Its just because 90% of people in general are fearful, ignorant, stupid and also too arrogant to notice either any of these traits.
anon

Maidenhead, UK

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#269
Dec 14, 2012
 
?
atheist

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The atheists and aussie here sound a bit mental. Paranoia mixed with Ocd.
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

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#271
Dec 14, 2012
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a law of physics.
Food is fuel. If you put in more fuel than you use, you gain weight. It is physically impossible to get fat without eating.
While it may be difficult for some, it is not impossible.
Surely weight control is more complex than that? I think I'll leave such assessments (let alone judgements) to the experts in physiology and biology. Your assumption seems to be counter-intuitive to me but intuitive to many. You aren't alone in it and I quite understand that viewpoint. I keep an open mind about the question of whether obesity and morbid obesity can invariably be attributed to lack of dietary discipline. From what I have read, it isn't invariably controllable even by experts. I just try to read what researchers have to say. Anyway, always good to read a point of view.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm disappointed in that I thought you'd offer something more scientific and a link perhaps. Still, see you around.(I'm too busy for Topix these days:-)
Amused

Salem, MA

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#272
Dec 14, 2012
 

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supersonic boom wrote:
Atheism is just as bad as Christianity and other religions when it comes to its people spouting off about their beliefs.
No atheists have flown planes into buildings to advance their non-faith.
Amused

Salem, MA

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#273
Dec 14, 2012
 

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CrimeaRiver wrote:
<quoted text>
Immigrants are allowed, even encouraged to celebrate their religions, to keep their cuisine and hold on to their customs.
But to segregate themselves from wider society doesn't make sense, to reject British lifestyle in favour of their own is counter-community.
I just can't understand why someone would choose to move to another country and then live as if they were in their own.
This is not from a racist viewpoint, just a common sense one.
From my experience working with refugees (over 10 years)there is a happy medium. Many immigrants and refugees seek to blend their old culture with their new one. There's nothing wrong in esteeming old traditions and values while learning the customs of their new country. It certainly helps immigrant children maintain a sense of self esteem when they know and value their own culture and history. In general, it takes a couple of generations for immigrant families to really assimilate. Immigrants usually struggle to learn English. After age 15 or 16, the portions of the brain that process language become resistant to learning a new language. The kids normally grow up speaking both languages. The grand children usually understand only a couple of words of the old language.

There are benefits to that for both the immigrant and the country where they settled. The city where I live has a population over 30% foreign born. With a drive of less than 15 minutes, I can enjoy authentic Greek, Irish, Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian, West African, Jamaican, Arabic or Puerto Rican food. I can buy unique products from around the world that will never be in Wal-Mart. There's a value in that. It is perhaps not as broadening as actually traveling abroad, but it is a lot better than living in a monolithic culture.

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