The atheist's dilemma

Full story: Chicago Tribune

How likely is it that the world's 1.3 billion Muslims will wake up one morning and abandon their ancestral faith? Even if you are a ferocious Sam Harris-style atheist who thinks religion is completely stupid -- ...
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Ed Burke

Coram, NY

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#24
Nov 28, 2007
 
elm wrote:
Jackson,
Athiests do good deeds everyday. They just don't need to do it while drawing attention to their belief that god doesn't exist.
Maybe if Christians and other religos could separate their good works from their religion, we'd all know that it's out of the goodness of their hearts - not just to get into heaven.
Only the actual goodness in your heart will enable you to stop being an atheist. If not you will not go to heaven, and the alternative is too horrible to contemplate. So if the joy of Heaven doesn't motivate you, then the eternal agony of the alternative had better. Those are the only two options, and Jesus alone holds the keys to the better one.

Oh, and what constitutes Good, is God's call, not yours. You don't get to make up the rules, that was done by someone a whole lot smarter than any of us, a long, long time ago.

I will pray you overcome your lack of knowledge.

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

Made in Yorkshire

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#25
Nov 28, 2007
 
Ed Burke wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists will discover the harsh reality of heII, which will be too late for them to discover that atheism is the work of satan. Ignore God Now. He ignores you, later.
So you atheists should 'seek', and so you will find, but only if you seek God in honesty and humility. Arrogant human bravado, doesn't ever work.
According to your bible satan and its followers were cast into hell for fighting with god. Are you saying satan is able to change things on earth from the confines of hell? If that is the case what is the point of god sending it there?
Ed Burke

Coram, NY

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#26
Nov 28, 2007
 
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your bible satan and its followers were cast into hell for fighting with god. Are you saying satan is able to change things on earth from the confines of hell? If that is the case what is the point of god sending it there?
The Bible states that satan was cast down, to earth. Jesus Himself called satan the ruler of this world, which explains atheists and the current state of the world.

Satan was given this power on earth when he convinced Adam & Eve to sin, and every sin and human misery, and war and atheist from that day to this was the direct consequence of that original sin. But then you atheists wouldn't understand any of this. Too bad because you will be joining satan unless you wise up.

Jesus came and redeemed mankind from that sin, which is why He alone has the keys, to the kingdom of Heaven. Humans are powerless to avoid sin, which is why we are all sinners. God has the grace to bestow on us who seek Him, to give us the ability to resist temptation. If you are human, and alive on earth, and NOT feeling satans temptations its only because you are holding his hand already, and he likes you just as you are.
lmc

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

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#27
Nov 28, 2007
 
elm wrote:
Jackson,
Athiests do good deeds everyday. They just don't need to do it while drawing attention to their belief that god doesn't exist.
Maybe if Christians and other religos could separate their good works from their religion, we'd all know that it's out of the goodness of their hearts - not just to get into heaven.
It takes more than just doing good deeds my friend, you also need to have faith in GOD. Christians aren't drawing attention here, the only people that love to draw attention is people who are atheist's, throwing an uproar when it comes to the religious faithful wanting to do GOD'S will, whether it's by preaching the word of GOD, praying, or even loving thy neighbor, which can be very difficult, considering the state the world is in today. I pray you will find faith in GOD someday, you will need it.
lmc

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

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#28
Nov 28, 2007
 
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your bible satan and its followers were cast into hell for fighting with god. Are you saying satan is able to change things on earth from the confines of hell? If that is the case what is the point of god sending it there?
Lucifer was cast out, because he thought he was equal with GOD, when in fact, he was a mere fallen angel. Satan, is able to go after lost souls, corrupt souls. He does not have the capability to change the world, only GOD HIMSELF, has that capability. That's why it's so important for people to believe in HIM and do HIS will. GOD sees everything, knows everything, and HE is watching us. Our actions, our behavior makes a difference. Find faith in GOD, trust in GOD, reach out to HIM. Our time here on earth is running out.
Denise

Peoria, IL

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#29
Nov 28, 2007
 
Ed Burke wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible states that satan was cast down, to earth. Jesus Himself called satan the ruler of this world, which explains atheists and the current state of the world.
Satan was given this power on earth when he convinced Adam & Eve to sin, and every sin and human misery, and war and atheist from that day to this was the direct consequence of that original sin. But then you atheists wouldn't understand any of this. Too bad because you will be joining satan unless you wise up.
Jesus came and redeemed mankind from that sin, which is why He alone has the keys, to the kingdom of Heaven. Humans are powerless to avoid sin, which is why we are all sinners. God has the grace to bestow on us who seek Him, to give us the ability to resist temptation. If you are human, and alive on earth, and NOT feeling satans temptations its only because you are holding his hand already, and he likes you just as you are.
Jesus died for our sins. It's a waste to not commit them.

Since: Dec 06

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#30
Nov 28, 2007
 
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your bible satan and its followers were cast into hell for fighting with god. Are you saying satan is able to change things on earth from the confines of hell? If that is the case what is the point of god sending it there?
Greetings Roland
Peace

Good question....As you can see by other responses, the rather mixed up answers are the result of attempts to explain. And of course they are not factually scientific, though some try to make them so, with support by declaring the world so messed up now....

As for me, I think of Satan as a very tiny person. Those that try to blame Satan for the ills of humanity, deny their own sinfulness, thus enlarging the status of Satan in the end....

Those that believe the flesh is left behind, and the spirit moves on to other planes of existence such as heaven or hell, are moving away from Satan, and towards God....

Lots of confusion out there....Satan is getting smaller....

Peace
Robert
lmc

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

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#32
Nov 28, 2007
 
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Greetings Roland
Peace
Good question....As you can see by other responses, the rather mixed up answers are the result of attempts to explain. And of course they are not factually scientific, though some try to make them so, with support by declaring the world so messed up now....
As for me, I think of Satan as a very tiny person. Those that try to blame Satan for the ills of humanity, deny their own sinfulness, thus enlarging the status of Satan in the end....
Those that believe the flesh is left behind, and the spirit moves on to other planes of existence such as heaven or hell, are moving away from Satan, and towards God....
Lots of confusion out there....Satan is getting smaller....
Peace
Robert
Guess what? your just as mixed up and confused my friend. No one is denying sin here. We ALL have oringinal sin. So much for your scientific opinion. I consider you a very tiny person. Peace.

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

Made in Yorkshire

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#33
Nov 28, 2007
 
Denise wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus died for our sins. It's a waste to not commit them.
All those sins and so little time.
Jeff

United States

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#34
Nov 28, 2007
 
Jackson wrote:
Just a couple of questions. What hospitals have atheists built? What schools have they started to educate youngsters? Where is Atheist University? Maybe I've missed it, but perhaps someone can illuminate me as to what atheists have done to improve society.
----------

This is a ridiculous question.

Any atheist who has built any school, museum or anything else would not state that he/she is
in fact an atheist. Why would he? It is completely irrelevant to the issue. If he is a vegetarian should he tell everbody about that too and maybe put it on the front of the building?

I think the only reason religious people insist on being recognized for building something is their incredible arrogance.
DMG

Chicago, IL

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#35
Nov 28, 2007
 
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
All those sins and so little time.
Amen.
Jeff

United States

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#37
Nov 28, 2007
 
Ed Burke wrote:
<quoted text>
Only the actual goodness in your heart will enable you to stop being an atheist. If not you will not go to heaven, and the alternative is too horrible to contemplate. So if the joy of Heaven doesn't motivate you, then the eternal agony of the alternative had better. Those are the only two options, and Jesus alone holds the keys to the better one.
Oh, and what constitutes Good, is God's call, not yours. You don't get to make up the rules, that was done by someone a whole lot smarter than any of us, a long, long time ago.
I will pray you overcome your lack of knowledge.
__________

My goodness.

Will religious people ever come out of the Dark Ages and accept scientific reality?

Nope, didn't think so.

And that unabashed arrogance that comes with it....that no one else knows what is "right" except them.

Especially those pesky liberal scientists. How dare they use the empirical data from biology, chemistry, biology, astronomy etc in an attempt to understand the universe. All the answers we need are in one book written two thousand years ago by a bunge of guys who were so intelligent they thought the earth was flat...
Jeff

United States

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#38
Nov 28, 2007
 
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
The nature of your god is clearly outlined in the bible. From your point of view this is the word of god. In order for god to exist there has to be evidence jesus was a real person.
There is no historical evidence which shows jesus ever existed in real life. If irrefutable proof of jesus being a real person had been found it would have been broadcast over every major news channel.
----------

Hi Roland.....as an agnostic I would love to side with you but cannot. It is almost universally accepted, even by most scientists, that Jesus was a real person. Personally, I view him as a great man who had some wonderful ideas and was able to communicate these ideas very effectively and emotionally, sort of like an MLK Jr. But he was just a man.

The rest of it is all nonsense. There is no evidence whatsover that he was "the son of god".
The fact that some people from 2000 years ago said he performed 'miracles' is about as dubious as you can get. Further, religious people have basically no evidence whatsoever to support any of their beliefs. Modern science via biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, etc make their claims impossible. They will never accept this of course. Trying to convince the devout that there is no such thing as an invisible, all-power entity is like banging your head against a wall.
DMG

Chicago, IL

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#39
Nov 28, 2007
 
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
Hi Roland.....as an agnostic I would love to side with you but cannot. It is almost universally accepted, even by most scientists, that Jesus was a real person. Personally, I view him as a great man who had some wonderful ideas and was able to communicate these ideas very effectively and emotionally, sort of like an MLK Jr. But he was just a man.
The rest of it is all nonsense. There is no evidence whatsover that he was "the son of god".
The fact that some people from 2000 years ago said he performed 'miracles' is about as dubious as you can get. Further, religious people have basically no evidence whatsoever to support any of their beliefs. Modern science via biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, etc make their claims impossible. They will never accept this of course. Trying to convince the devout that there is no such thing as an invisible, all-power entity is like banging your head against a wall.
I absolutely agree with you. But that's where faith comes in. I'm not a religious freak. That's just what the religious freaks get it from. But it's one thing to have faith and be Christian -- it's quite another cramming down people's throat who don't want it. That's why I agree with you.
Jeff

United States

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#40
Nov 28, 2007
 
DMG wrote:
<quoted text>
I absolutely agree with you. But that's where faith comes in. I'm not a religious freak. That's just what the religious freaks get it from. But it's one thing to have faith and be Christian -- it's quite another cramming down people's throat who don't want it. That's why I agree with you.
---------

Yep. True.

I've never had a problem with religious people. They can believe anything they want to believe. I dont really care either way because It is none of my business.

But I start having a problem with them when they start forcing it down everybody else's throats.....

You know to what I am referring....anti-homosexualit y laws, laws against a womans right to choose, anti-euthanasia laws that infringe on personal liberty, prayer in public school laws, anti-alcohol "blue laws", etc, etc.....

Have a good evening
DC law dog

Mclean, VA

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#41
Nov 28, 2007
 
<<No it's not the 'bottom line', the bottom line is that the evidence of God's existence is right in front of us if we just look at it.>>

There is no evidence whatsoever that your deity exists...

<<There's no way life and this universe could have just come from nothing.>>

In modern physics, there is no such thing as "nothing." Even in a perfect vacuum, pairs of virtual particles are constantly being created and destroyed. The existence of these particles is no mathematical fiction. Though they cannot be directly observed, the effects they create are quite real. The assumption that they exist leads to predictions that have been confirmed by experiment to a high degree of accuracy.(Morris, 1990, 25)

<<That belief is as irrational as we're told God is.>>

atheism is not a belief.... it is disbelief in any deities...

<<The real bottom line is that God does exist>>

You have zero proof that your god or any other god exists... If you think you have some proof, post it right here for us to analyze...

<<and that a lot of people are going to be sorry when they have to stand before him and explain why they never accepted him.>>

Simply take a moment to think about the following statement:

"Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!"

Yes, this is the central message of Christianity. See John 6:53-54 and Mark 16:16.

Think about this message. We have a being who, according to the Standard Model of God, embodies love. Yet, if you do not get down on your knees and worship him, you will be physically tortured for all eternity.

What sort of love is that?

The utter silliness and contradiction of Jesus' core message should make it obvious to you: God is imaginary.

Since: Dec 06

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#42
Nov 28, 2007
 
lmc wrote:
<quoted text> Guess what? your just as mixed up and confused my friend. No one is denying sin here. We ALL have oringinal sin. So much for your scientific opinion. I consider you a very tiny person. Peace.
Greetings lmc
Peace

We all have original sin? Hmmm. Being a Christian, I thought original sin was over. If I still have original sin, then Christ's sacrifice is in vain....

Apparently you are not able to reason with your faith. Or maybe I am just jumping the gun on you, as I believe you have done to me....

Peace
Robert

Peace
Robert
Rhonin

Hemet, CA

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#43
Nov 28, 2007
 
Besides the obvious arrogance and hatred of others who do not believe as you do. What have you done that makes you so fearful for your soul?
lmc wrote:
<quoted text> Guess what? your just as mixed up and confused my friend. No one is denying sin here. We ALL have oringinal sin. So much for your scientific opinion. I consider you a very tiny person. Peace.

“Messenger w/ a Message”

Since: Sep 07

planet earth, for now

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#44
Nov 28, 2007
 
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your bible satan and its followers were cast into hell for fighting with god. Are you saying satan is able to change things on earth from the confines of hell? If that is the case what is the point of god sending it there?
The Bible says that Satan was cast out of Heaven. It doen't say he was cast into Hell. Before you go telling lies about the Bible, get to know it. He's roaming to and fro seeking whom he may devour. And believe me he is and will continue to devour until Jesus comes back THEN casts him into Hell, along with his demons and mortal followers (people who don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior). That's what the Bible says!

“Messenger w/ a Message”

Since: Sep 07

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#45
Nov 28, 2007
 
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
My goodness.
Will religious people ever come out of the Dark Ages and accept scientific reality?
Nope, didn't think so.
And that unabashed arrogance that comes with it....that no one else knows what is "right" except them.
Especially those pesky liberal scientists. How dare they use the empirical data from biology, chemistry, biology, astronomy etc in an attempt to understand the universe. All the answers we need are in one book written two thousand years ago by a bunge of guys who were so intelligent they thought the earth was flat...
Tell me sir, how did the Grand Canyon form? Explain that to me scientifically.

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