The atheist's dilemma

How likely is it that the world's 1.3 billion Muslims will wake up one morning and abandon their ancestral faith? Even if you are a ferocious Sam Harris-style atheist who thinks religion is completely stupid -- ... Full Story

Since: Oct 07

Bawlmer

#334 Dec 18, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism has been defined as a religion by the courts.
Debunking Atheists: Atheism is a Religion! Now it's our turn; In light of this newest declaration, since atheism has been ruled as a religion in our court system, we have no choice but to sue the ...
debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2008/07/atheis... - 150k -
Baloney. The courts said that atheism is on an equal par with religion in the eyes of the law. Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color, or like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Since: Oct 07

Bawlmer

#335 Dec 18, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism is a protected "religion'' under the First Amendment! Aug 20, 2005 ... United States, the Supreme Court considered the case of a ... "Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was ...
www.renewamerica.us/columns/gaynor/050820 - 35k - Cached - Similar pages -
Evolutionary Mind: Is Atheism a Religion? Interestingly, the US federal court has already ruled that Atheism is a religion in a case involving an inmate who wanted to start an atheistic study group....
evolutionary-mind.blogspot.com/2005/11/is-ath... - 72k - Cached - Similar pages -
Renew America? An extreme far-right ultra-evangelical anti-American crackpot group dedicated to compulsory christian theocracy.

Since: Oct 07

Bawlmer

#336 Dec 18, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
These quotes from Scripture are not proof of Communism or Marxism. Totally false! These quotes describe the sharing among the disciples and new Christian because of their love for their Savior. First there was repentance for the forgiveness of sin, preached by both John the Baptist and Jesus Himself.
In Communism there is a level of bureaucracy which actually rules over the proletariat. This upper echelon of authority divides the property and earnings leaving people with little incentive to produce. The U.S.S.R. is the prime example. It was also an atheistic regime.
Funny how you disavow biblical quotes which echo the basic tenets of Marxism.

Even funnier is the fact that Karl Marx himself noted that the worst possible place for his philosophy of communism to take hold was in Russia.

Since: Oct 07

Bawlmer

#337 Dec 18, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Btw, not all atheists will adhere to the same proposals. In some godless minds, anything goes.
And for the "godly" minds, all atrocities are possible when your "god" has given his blessing.

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#338 Dec 18, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
If you had bothered to read the actual decision you would have learned that the courts have actually declared that the 1st Admendment to mean that a person must have some belief which occupies in his life the place or role which the traditional concept of God occupies in the orthodox believer. That is the "religion requirement" is inclusive of moral, ethical, or religious grounds. Justice Harlan concurred that restricting conscientious objection status to those persons who could demonstrate a traditional religious foundation for their beliefs was impermissible under the Establishment Clause.
This decision expanded the types of beliefs that can be used to get protection under the 1st Admendment to include deeply held non-religious moral or ethical grounds.
So atheism agnosticism, humanism, etc. are only "religious" in the sense that they are protected under the 1st Admendment.
Leave it to a liberal judge who sees the Constitution as a fluid document to re-define what it means to be have protected, deeply-held, religious beliefs. Just rename them "deeply-held, non-religious beliefs." Anybody can petition the courts with any set of beliefs/values under the sun. Eventually,even such perverse ideas as animal sacrifice during religious rituals could be considered a valid religious belief or "non-religious" belief depending on how the adherants of a "religion" want to define it. Then there's Wiccan practices, the occult, etc...

Since: Oct 07

Bawlmer

#339 Dec 18, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Leave it to a liberal judge who sees the Constitution as a fluid document to re-define what it means to be have protected, deeply-held, religious beliefs. Just rename them "deeply-held, non-religious beliefs." Anybody can petition the courts with any set of beliefs/values under the sun. Eventually,even such perverse ideas as animal sacrifice during religious rituals could be considered a valid religious belief or "non-religious" belief depending on how the adherants of a "religion" want to define it. Then there's Wiccan practices, the occult, etc...
Or REALLY stupid notions like claiming a cracker is the flesh of their deity, and demanding criminal prosecution of those who blaspheme or desecrate it.

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#340 Dec 18, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
And in some christian minds anything goes.
I would question their "Christianity."

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#341 Dec 18, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but they do show that the ideals of socialism are not simply an atheistic mindset. The ideals of social commune structure have been around for a long time and have been practiced in some for or another by numerous "religions".
<quoted text>
And "authoritative bureaucracy" is the real crux of the problem with these totaliarian regimes. That they happended to also be based on the Marxist idea that religion was the real "evil" ("opiate of the people") was not the most significant driving force of these failed communal socio-economic attempts. You would be better served to look to Herbert Spencer for some understand of the mindset that led to communism.
Socialism has been prevalent in societies all over the globe.(Example: Kibbutz -- Jewish community, if I recall correctly). I agree that it's not the same ideology as Communism.

Communism was based not upon religion or lack of it per se, but upon the collective ownership of property and organization of labor according to Marx and Engel's philosophy. However, the idea of "private property" is a tenet that opposes the philosophy of Communism, but is related to the Christian idea of the integrity of the person that one should have ownership as befitting his/her bodily integrity.(Of course Christians believe that in essence their bodies are "temples of the Holy Spirit" and therefore, not their own to use ignobly.) Marxism is totally opposed to this freedom. In fact, it is totalitarianism at its best.

Read: "Masters of Deceit"
Amazon.com : Masters of Deceit: The Story of Communism in America ... This review is from: Masters Of Deceit: The Story Of Communism In America And How To Fight It (Paperback). This book should be rquired reading for high ...
www.amazon.com/Masters-Deceit-Story-Communism... - 239k - Cached - Similar pages -

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#342 Dec 18, 2008
aveteran wrote:
<quoted text>Baloney. The courts said that atheism is on an equal par with religion in the eyes of the law. Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color, or like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Actually I agree that atheism is a non-religion. I'm just writing about the court decision that put it on par with organized religion.

Bumpersticker: "Have you wrapped your unChristmas presents yet?"

"Merry Nothing!"

So do you celebrate Christmas -- the birth of the King?

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#343 Dec 18, 2008
aveteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how you disavow biblical quotes which echo the basic tenets of Marxism.
Even funnier is the fact that Karl Marx himself noted that the worst possible place for his philosophy of communism to take hold was in Russia.
Read post #328 in which I reponded to your first postulate.

Please explain your second one.

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#344 Dec 18, 2008
aveteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Or REALLY stupid notions like claiming a cracker is the flesh of their deity, and demanding criminal prosecution of those who blaspheme or desecrate it.
The concept of the Word made flesh is a difficult one. Many people who are Christians only understand the words of Christ to be figurative instead of literal. However, Jesus Himself said, "I am the bread of life; he who eats this bread shall live forever. The bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." (I should ref it). Scripture tells us that a whole bunch of His followers left Him at that point. Jesus asked Peter if he'd leave him too. Peter said, "You have he words of eternal life." There are other references as well. Google the Bible.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#345 Dec 19, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I agree that atheism is a non-religion. I'm just writing about the court decision that put it on par with organized religion.
Bumpersticker: "Have you wrapped your unChristmas presents yet?"
"Merry Nothing!"
So do you celebrate Christmas -- the birth of the King?
Congress did not begin adjourning on Christmas Day until 1856. Public schools in New England were often open on Dec. 25, as were many factories and offices.

It was not until after the Civil War that Christmas began to seriously affect American cultural and religious life.

The celebration spread, and in 1870 Christmas was declared a federal holiday by Congress. As late as 1931, nine states still called for public schools to remain open on Christmas Day.

Happy Winter Solstice!

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#346 Dec 19, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
I would question their "Christianity."
So why is it that the most christian nation in the world (America) also has the highest felony crime rate, the highest incident of teenage pregnancy, and the lowest education level in terms of math and sciences of any developed nation while industrialized secular nations score much better?

(Ref: Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies, Journal of Religion & Society, Volume 7, 2005)

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#347 Dec 19, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Congress did not begin adjourning on Christmas Day until 1856. Public schools in New England were often open on Dec. 25, as were many factories and offices.
It was not until after the Civil War that Christmas began to seriously affect American cultural and religious life.
The celebration spread, and in 1870 Christmas was declared a federal holiday by Congress. As late as 1931, nine states still called for public schools to remain open on Christmas Day.
Happy Winter Solstice!
Yes, truly Christmas wasn't recognized as a holiday in the public schools at first, but it was always considered a holyday and celebrated by Christians.

So have you wrapped your soltice presents yet? Merry soltice!(It just doesn't have the same ring.)

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#348 Dec 19, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
So why is it that the most christian nation in the world (America) also has the highest felony crime rate, the highest incident of teenage pregnancy, and the lowest education level in terms of math and sciences of any developed nation while industrialized secular nations score much better?
(Ref: Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies, Journal of Religion & Society, Volume 7, 2005)
Now, admitedly, I don't have all the answers or a degree in sociology, but I suppose one reason our students are scoring lower is that in the inner cities, the culture seems to prevent them from advancing educationally although there is some improvement. Some of the black kids prevent each other from acting like "whitey." The crime rate is usually higher in the inner cities.

As for the abortion rate, it's the same story. Although black women are only around 13% of the population, they have 35% of the abortions.

We need good teachers going into the inner cities to teach. Higer payment may be an inducement along with altruistic values. One of my closest relatives teaches in the inner city of Oakland.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#349 Dec 19, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, truly Christmas wasn't recognized as a holiday in the public schools at first, but it was always considered a holyday and celebrated by Christians.
So have you wrapped your soltice presents yet? Merry soltice!(It just doesn't have the same ring.)
Wrong again. Early American colonies were opposed to the celebration of christmas as it was thought to be too catholic. Massachusetts actually had a law against the celebration and had a 5 shilling penalty (a lot of money back then).

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#350 Dec 19, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, admitedly, I don't have all the answers or a degree in sociology, but I suppose one reason our students are scoring lower is that in the inner cities, the culture seems to prevent them from advancing educationally although there is some improvement. Some of the black kids prevent each other from acting like "whitey." The crime rate is usually higher in the inner cities.
As for the abortion rate, it's the same story. Although black women are only around 13% of the population, they have 35% of the abortions.
We need good teachers going into the inner cities to teach. Higer payment may be an inducement along with altruistic values. One of my closest relatives teaches in the inner city of Oakland.
And the high felony crime rate? According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons the incarceration rate for felony crimes for christians are significantly over-represented and non-theists are significantly under-represented.

You can speculate all you want. The evidence is what it is.

Since: Oct 08

Pequot Lakes, MN

#351 Dec 19, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again. Early American colonies were opposed to the celebration of christmas as it was thought to be too catholic. Massachusetts actually had a law against the celebration and had a 5 shilling penalty (a lot of money back then).
That's information I didn't know previously. Must do some research on that. I DO know that the early Protestants who came first to America (Puritans mainly) were opposed to anything Catholic. That's why Catholics decided to build their own schools.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#352 Dec 19, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
That's information I didn't know previously. Must do some research on that. I DO know that the early Protestants who came first to America (Puritans mainly) were opposed to anything Catholic. That's why Catholics decided to build their own schools.
Yep. That about sums it up. In fact there was a Western state back in the 1920s that tried to ban private schools keep catholics away.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

#353 Dec 19, 2008
rookieonedge wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism is a protected "religion'' under the First Amendment!...-
sorry, but you're going to need to provide links to supreme court decisions

not right wing whiny columns that are interpreting decisions

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