allgood allpowerful god cannot exist

allgood allpowerful god cannot exist

Posted in the Atheism Forum

havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#1 May 24, 2013
My purpose in starting this is to emphasize the moral objections to the pain and suffering in the world we live in, as we experience it and have reason to think others experience. Such a world could not be created by - or be, in itself - an allgood and allpowerful god.

I think this argument is stronger than the intellectual arguments.

I think most arguments against most conventional versions of God focus too much on the term evidence, as a sort of mental justification for non-belief. I generally agree with them as an argument for non-belief, but I do not think they establish that we "know" in a respectable intellectual sense of what "knowing" is.

But the moral argument that there cannot be a god that is both allgood and allpowerful, is compelling with a different sort of "knowing" - a whole self, or body-self type of knowing, from our own experience of pain, combined with what we think we know about the pain and suffering that others (what we think are others, including animals) feel.

I always state that I am an agnostic (not making a knowledge claim) atheist (a non-believer in any god or God, Gods or Gods). I do not claim to know in an intellectual sense, and I do not believe anyone can know in that sense.

But once the God is called allgood and allpowerful, and once I am allowed to let my physical self claim that it "knows" in its own way, from feelings of pain, then I "know" there cannot possibly be an allgoodallpowerful God.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#2 May 28, 2013
again, I want to bring this forward in hope of a reply from anyone who is interested in the difference between the agnostic atheist who says I do not believe and I do not claim to know, and the atheist who claims to know - and why the person does claim to know, and about what definition of God one claims to know (that there is not a God).

I am an agnostic atheist about all other gods but this one. On this one I do claim to know, but in a different sense of knowing than most people assert when they say they know.

I read Schopenhauer when I was l7, and his books were very strong in striking a chord in me that linked what I thought and what I felt (strong disapproval of pain and suffering in this world).
Thinking

Poole, UK

#3 May 29, 2013
If god(s) exist(s), it/they can not be compassionate and all powerful because we have evidence of avoidable suffering.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#4 May 30, 2013
Thinking wrote:
If god(s) exist(s), it/they can not be compassionate and all powerful because we have evidence of avoidable suffering.
exactly. thank you.

Do you think that there is any case against any other version of a God or gods, that is so completely obvious to a thinking person, and to one with a sense of compassion? Do you agree with my claim that the ethical element is the strongest argument against most alleged gods, insofar as we are asked to worship them or approve of them? we are asserting our independent judgment of what is right or wrong,(related to pain and suffering) and judging religion by that. It does not take much looking into socalled holy books to find some behavior by a God that is not kind, or some s0-called God's commandment that we do something that would not be kind.
Thinking

Darlington, UK

#5 May 31, 2013
Epicurus worked all this out well over 2000 years ago. Why worship a god that can not be all powerful and compassionate?

Believers often excuse the bad behaviour of their god as being "beyond our understanding", or invent a satan figure. They do not satisfactorily explain why an all powerful god allows satan to persist. Sometimes they say this is to do with free will - a free will we are not allowed to use.
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> exactly. thank you.
Do you think that there is any case against any other version of a God or gods, that is so completely obvious to a thinking person, and to one with a sense of compassion? Do you agree with my claim that the ethical element is the strongest argument against most alleged gods, insofar as we are asked to worship them or approve of them? we are asserting our independent judgment of what is right or wrong,(related to pain and suffering) and judging religion by that. It does not take much looking into socalled holy books to find some behavior by a God that is not kind, or some s0-called God's commandment that we do something that would not be kind.

“Sombrero Galaxy”

Since: Jan 10

I'm An Illegal Alien

#6 May 31, 2013
If God knows all, then why wouldd he permit child killers to commit their acts? Worse some of these killers were never caught.

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