Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1721 Mar 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
How about concrete proofs that the people who wrote the scriptures are there to witness it? What, you can’t supply any, yet you want concrete proof of the opposing argument – how very hypocritical of you.
A Belgian priest named Georges Lemaître first suggested the big bang idea based on the observations of Edwin Hubble. It continues to be validated in different ways on a regular basis. But hey, we have been here several times and you ignored it so in you typical godbot way you go round and round again and get nowhere.
Evidence of the big bang
Hubble Diagram
Redshift (Large-scale homogeneity)
CMB and fluctuations in the CMB
Makeup of the Elements, the abundance of lighter elements
Observations of far galaxies and the Evolution of galaxies
Large-scale structure of the universe
Age of stars
Time dilation in supernova brightness curves
So lets look at your view of evidence from the scriptures – no one saw it, no one measured it but obviously godidit because god said so in the bronze age, that’s what you believe and that what you are sticking to – right?
I am not denying that the big bang could have happened. I do accept that probability. My point is to use the big bang to confirm
what the Scriptures have been saying for thousands of years: That the universe had a beginning. And now, in 1922 Georges Lemaitre made the atheists stop believing that the universe was without a beginning. Now, if the big bang was the beginning of the universe,
how did it happen? To believe so 100%, you must have some idea of how. Go ahead and share it with me. If it is by faith, you can keep
it for yourself. I don't believe in anything by faith but all on the basis of the concept of probability.

Ben

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1722 Mar 4, 2013
God did it is enough for true believers (tm)

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1723 Mar 5, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not denying that the big bang could have happened. I do accept that probability. My point is to use the big bang to confirm
what the Scriptures have been saying for thousands of years: That the universe had a beginning. And now, in 1922 Georges Lemaitre made the atheists stop believing that the universe was without a beginning. Now, if the big bang was the beginning of the universe,
how did it happen? To believe so 100%, you must have some idea of how. Go ahead and share it with me. If it is by faith, you can keep
it for yourself. I don't believe in anything by faith but all on the basis of the concept of probability.
Ben
Hello stranger, you have changed your sock!

I see you still can not offer proofs that the scriptures offer any proof yet you claim “The proofs have been in the Scriptures for thousands of years”– Why is this I wonder?

There is a difference between the scriptures at 6000 and a few years with no evidence other than an unverified book selectively compiled by committee from extracts of another unverified book and hearsay – and the Hubble diagram at 13.7 billion years with the physical evidence to confirm it. The scriptures are written, they do not unwrite themselves and re-write them to suite your whim. What evidence does is show that bronze age guesswork was wrong. Perhaps you need to write another babble beginning - 13.7 billion years ago there was void - and get rid of the whole bible genealogy thing. You never know, you could start a new goddidit cult

In 1922 science moved on a step, as it continually does,‘that’s science for ya, never staying the same’. In 1922 the Higgs particle had never been heard of, now you can have your brain examined in detail with an MRI scanner and that particle is 99.999% sure to exist.

Why are you accusing me of belief, you are the one believing in a guess, not me I freely admit that I don’t know how the universe began, no one does, yet – NO ONE. But the answer is getting closer, there are at least 27 valid theories, each with scientific merit that offer possibilities. That term scientific merit excludes the guess that that goddidit. The work of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton et al holds most relevance for me because it explains the 3 previously unexplainable phenomena that can be seen in the observable/measurable universe.

I also freely admit that on the balance of probability, the complete lack of any evidence, the vast amounts of scientific understanding right back to 10^-34th of a second after that event and Einstein’s mass/energy equivalence formula, no god can exist in this universe. By far the overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion is that no gods exist or have ever existed.

You believe 100% in a bronze age story that you are unable to provide evidence for anyone seeing it or measuring it but it obviously happened because god said so in the bronze age, and that’s what you believe is probability? That goddidt with no evidence, that is faith, not probability.

What I have is a need of understanding that will probably never be satisfied in my lifetime but that is no excuse for me take the easy way out and say “I don’t know and I may never know, so goddidit”. That is a stifling attitude that had mankind actually followed that belief we would all still be living in the desert fighting of plagues of locust and praying that our firstborn son would not be a sacrifice to a god no one had ever seen.

You are welcome to call your delusion of faith whatever you want, that’s is entirely up to you but I think we have been here before and I for one have come to the conclusion that what you call probability (the strong likelihood of something) is guesswork with no backup, no evidence, no proof, in all probably,- faith.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#1724 Mar 5, 2013
Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton is rather special.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello stranger, you have changed your sock!
I see you still can not offer proofs that the scriptures offer any proof yet you claim “The proofs have been in the Scriptures for thousands of years”– Why is this I wonder?
There is a difference between the scriptures at 6000 and a few years with no evidence other than an unverified book selectively compiled by committee from extracts of another unverified book and hearsay – and the Hubble diagram at 13.7 billion years with the physical evidence to confirm it. The scriptures are written, they do not unwrite themselves and re-write them to suite your whim. What evidence does is show that bronze age guesswork was wrong. Perhaps you need to write another babble beginning - 13.7 billion years ago there was void - and get rid of the whole bible genealogy thing. You never know, you could start a new goddidit cult
In 1922 science moved on a step, as it continually does,‘that’s science for ya, never staying the same’. In 1922 the Higgs particle had never been heard of, now you can have your brain examined in detail with an MRI scanner and that particle is 99.999% sure to exist.
Why are you accusing me of belief, you are the one believing in a guess, not me I freely admit that I don’t know how the universe began, no one does, yet – NO ONE. But the answer is getting closer, there are at least 27 valid theories, each with scientific merit that offer possibilities. That term scientific merit excludes the guess that that goddidit. The work of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton et al holds most relevance for me because it explains the 3 previously unexplainable phenomena that can be seen in the observable/measurable universe.
I also freely admit that on the balance of probability, the complete lack of any evidence, the vast amounts of scientific understanding right back to 10^-34th of a second after that event and Einstein’s mass/energy equivalence formula, no god can exist in this universe. By far the overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion is that no gods exist or have ever existed.
You believe 100% in a bronze age story that you are unable to provide evidence for anyone seeing it or measuring it but it obviously happened because god said so in the bronze age, and that’s what you believe is probability? That goddidt with no evidence, that is faith, not probability.
What I have is a need of understanding that will probably never be satisfied in my lifetime but that is no excuse for me take the easy way out and say “I don’t know and I may never know, so goddidit”. That is a stifling attitude that had mankind actually followed that belief we would all still be living in the desert fighting of plagues of locust and praying that our firstborn son would not be a sacrifice to a god no one had ever seen.
You are welcome to call your delusion of faith whatever you want, that’s is entirely up to you but I think we have been here before and I for one have come to the conclusion that what you call probability (the strong likelihood of something) is guesswork with no backup, no evidence, no proof, in all probably,- faith.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1725 Mar 5, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton is rather special.
<quoted text>
Perhaps equal to Brian?

Daft question, different fields but she has a wonderful mind for sure and I believe the first person to tie the cold spots in the CMB with the galaxies that are moving contrary to the expansion of the universe.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#1726 Mar 5, 2013
Maybe she's brighter theoretically and Brian's the better communicator?

I don't know enough to be sure as I haven't seen her staring at a star from a mountain top yet. Or enduring a Robin Ince tirade!
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps equal to Brian?
Daft question, different fields but she has a wonderful mind for sure and I believe the first person to tie the cold spots in the CMB with the galaxies that are moving contrary to the expansion of the universe.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1727 Mar 5, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Maybe she's brighter theoretically and Brian's the better communicator?
I don't know enough to be sure as I haven't seen her staring at a star from a mountain top yet. Or enduring a Robin Ince tirade!
<quoted text>
It’s things like standing on mountains looking at stars that help define the communicator he is

I think Laura is more one to lean over desk and get involved in reams of data rather than be out advertising.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#1728 Mar 5, 2013
That's why David Attenborough got made a Fellow of the Royal Society. Communication of evidence is as necessary as research.

The christian church imposed a Dark Ages on the rest of the population by keeping education to themselves.

The first person to translate the bible from Latin into English, Tyndale, was burnt at the stake.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s things like standing on mountains looking at stars that help define the communicator he is
I think Laura is more one to lean over desk and get involved in reams of data rather than be out advertising.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1729 Mar 5, 2013
Thinking wrote:
That's why David Attenborough got made a Fellow of the Royal Society. Communication of evidence is as necessary as research.
The christian church imposed a Dark Ages on the rest of the population by keeping education to themselves.
The first person to translate the bible from Latin into English, Tyndale, was burnt at the stake.
<quoted text>
This is so but unfortunately it takes a rare mind to combine to two

The atrocities of the christian church are many and unforgivable
Shibolet

Los Angeles, CA

#1730 Mar 5, 2013
Mikko wrote:
God did it is enough for true believers (tm)
----------

There are things that God didn't do it like time, space, evil, and so forth. Therefore, "That God did it" is not enough for true believers.
Shibolet
Shibolet

Los Angeles, CA

#1731 Mar 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello stranger, you have changed your sock!
I see you still can not offer proofs that the scriptures offer any proof yet you claim “The proofs have been in the Scriptures for thousands of years”– Why is this I wonder?
There is a difference between the scriptures at 6000 and a few years with no evidence other than an unverified book selectively compiled by committee from extracts of another unverified book and hearsay – and the Hubble diagram at 13.7 billion years with the physical evidence to confirm it. The scriptures are written, they do not unwrite themselves and re-write them to suite your whim. What evidence does is show that bronze age guesswork was wrong. Perhaps you need to write another babble beginning - 13.7 billion years ago there was void - and get rid of the whole bible genealogy thing. You never know, you could start a new goddidit cult
In 1922 science moved on a step, as it continually does,‘that’s science for ya, never staying the same’. In 1922 the Higgs particle had never been heard of, now you can have your brain examined in detail with an MRI scanner and that particle is 99.999% sure to exist.
Why are you accusing me of belief, you are the one believing in a guess, not me I freely admit that I don’t know how the universe began, no one does, yet – NO ONE. But the answer is getting closer, there are at least 27 valid theories, each with scientific merit that offer possibilities. That term scientific merit excludes the guess that that goddidit. The work of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton et al holds most relevance for me because it explains the 3 previously unexplainable phenomena that can be seen in the observable/measurable universe.
I also freely admit that on the balance of probability, the complete lack of any evidence, the vast amounts of scientific understanding right back to 10^-34th of a second after that event and Einstein’s mass/energy equivalence formula, no god can exist in this universe. By far the overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion is that no gods exist or have ever existed.
You believe 100% in a bronze age story that you are unable to provide evidence for anyone seeing it or measuring it but it obviously happened because god said so in the bronze age, and that’s what you believe is probability? That goddidt with no evidence, that is faith, not probability.
What I have is a need of understanding that will probably never be satisfied in my lifetime but that is no excuse for me take the easy way out and say “I don’t know and I may never know, so goddidit”. That is a stifling attitude that had mankind actually followed that belief we would all still be living in the desert fighting of plagues of locust and praying that our firstborn son would not be a sacrifice to a god no one had ever seen.
You are welcome to call your delusion of faith whatever you want, that’s is entirely up to you but I think we have been here before and I for one have come to the conclusion that what you call probability (the strong likelihood of something) is guesswork with no backup, no evidence, no proof, in all probably,- faith.
----------

Hello Christine! And you continue the same, putting words in my mouth which have not been in my mind. Would you produce the post where I said that the Bible has the proofs for thousands of years that the universe had a beginning? I said that it has been down in the Bible for thousands of years that the universe had a beginning.
It does not mean that what is written could be beyond the shadow of doubt. I was rather glad that Science has produced the proofs that the Bible was right.

“Jeezuz in the Potty”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1732 Mar 5, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
I was rather glad that Science has produced the proofs that the Bible was right.
If the bible has been right about anything it will have been entirely by chance and not inspiration.

The bible that we know was written by men for their own purpose and and not contracted out nor inspired by some god.

The idea that the bible was written by some divine inspiration has never been properly investigated nor has it been proved.

God, itself has never been proved to exist either, for that matter. To assume a book has been divinely inspired will require first a proof of there being a god....then we can decide if the bible has any value to it.

“Jeezuz in the Potty”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1733 Mar 5, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not denying that the big bang could have happened. I do accept that probability. My point is to use the big bang to confirm
what the Scriptures have been saying for thousands of years: That the universe had a beginning. And now, in 1922 Georges Lemaitre made the atheists stop believing that the universe was without a beginning. Now, if the big bang was the beginning of the universe,
how did it happen? To believe so 100%, you must have some idea of how. Go ahead and share it with me. If it is by faith, you can keep
it for yourself. I don't believe in anything by faith but all on the basis of the concept of probability.
Ben
Lemaitre was a magnificent physicist for his time but it appears he may have been wrong about the Big Bang. This is not in any way to lessen his accomplishment as a physicist and his contribution to physics.

It has now been surmised that the big Bang was merely an episode in the continuum of the Universe and perhaps the Big Bang we are referring to was relegated to only one part of the cosmos....our part.

The Universe may never had a beginning and indeed may never have an end.

Atheists have never actually believed any one thing about the Universe. They only realize the universe was not created by a god.

Only the religious have believed one thing; god created the universe. They have believed this without scientific investigation but merely some barf they conjured out of the bible.

If it is necessary for the existence to have a creator, we have to ask what created the creator.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1734 Mar 6, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
Hello Christine! And you continue the same, putting words in my mouth which have not been in my mind. Would you produce the post where I said that the Bible has the proofs for thousands of years that the universe had a beginning? I said that it has been down in the Bible for thousands of years that the universe had a beginning.
It does not mean that what is written could be beyond the shadow of doubt. I was rather glad that Science has produced the proofs that the Bible was right.
You don’t need to say that or even think that THE BIBLE DOES IT FOR YOU and as much as the babble is shown to be garbage I would trust it more than I trust you

However just to prove you a lair see YOU post under your Ben clone
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
I quote
“The proofs have been in the Scriptures for thousands of years. Since the Scriptures mean nothing to you, how about concrete proofs that the universe came about as a result of the big bang?

Ben “

So don’t accuse me of lowering myself to your level you lying prat

I see you are still the same old ignorant ben, unable to respond with anything other than incredulity and deliberate ignorance.

Show where science has produced proofs that godddidt using jew magic 6000 years ago.

Waiting, in fact still waiting from when you were unable to produce such proof several months ago

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1736 Mar 6, 2013
Ozada wrote:
<quoted text>
If the bible has been right about anything it will have been entirely by chance and not inspiration.
The bible that we know was written by men for their own purpose and and not contracted out nor inspired by some god.
The idea that the bible was written by some divine inspiration has never been properly investigated nor has it been proved.
God, itself has never been proved to exist either, for that matter. To assume a book has been divinely inspired will require first a proof of there being a god....then we can decide if the bible has any value to it.
------

And how did George Lemaitre find out the big bang in 1922, by inspiration or by chance? Besides, you seem to have been listening to too many theists of "talking serpents". God did not inspire anyone to write anything. The writers of the books in the Bible were inspired to write what they did. Then for the sake of piety they attributed it to "The Great Spirit" Creator of the universe.

Do you know why Carl Sagan referred to the big bang as "our modern myth" in his book "Cosmos" p. 285? Because it has never been investigated beyond the shadow of a doubt that the universe has indeed come out of a bang.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1737 Mar 6, 2013
Ozada wrote:
<quoted text>
Lemaitre was a magnificent physicist for his time but it appears he may have been wrong about the Big Bang. This is not in any way to lessen his accomplishment as a physicist and his contribution to physics.
It has now been surmised that the big Bang was merely an episode in the continuum of the Universe and perhaps the Big Bang we are referring to was relegated to only one part of the cosmos....our part.
The Universe may never had a beginning and indeed may never have an end.
Atheists have never actually believed any one thing about the Universe. They only realize the universe was not created by a god.
Only the religious have believed one thing; god created the universe. They have believed this without scientific investigation but merely some barf they conjured out of the bible.
If it is necessary for the existence to have a creator, we have to ask what created the creator.
-----

After reading this post of yours, I have been left with the honest opinion that theists have the upper hand over the miscelaneous beliefs atheists are confused by. The only one thing atheists seem to be sure of is that it is impossible that a Divine Creator could exist for the origin of the universe. Well, if not for any other reason, by default, theists have the upper hand.

Regarding your "who created the Creator" what was there before the big bang which caused the universe to begin? If you can answer that
question some theist could give you a reply about who created the Creator.
Billy Bob Gramm

United States

#1738 Mar 6, 2013
Mikko wrote:
God did it is enough for true believers (tm)
Yup.
KJV

United States

#1739 Mar 6, 2013
Has this been settled yet?

Or are there still idiots who think nothing exploded and created everything?
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#1740 Mar 7, 2013
Straw man.
KJV wrote:
Has this been settled yet?
Or are there still idiots who think nothing exploded and created everything?

“Jeezuz in the Potty”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1742 Mar 7, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
After reading this post of yours, I have been left with the honest opinion that theists have the upper hand over the miscelaneous beliefs atheists are confused by.
Since christianity in North America alone has about 38,000 variations of what god is, I hardly think it is any christians place to suggest anyone is confused!
Shibolet wrote:
The only one thing atheists seem to be sure of is that it is impossible that a Divine Creator could exist for the origin of the universe. Well, if not for any other reason, by default, theists have the upper hand.
Theists will take any answer to anything providing it supports their delusion.
Shibolet wrote:
Regarding your "who created the Creator" what was there before the big bang which caused the universe to begin?
What was there before god, any idea? It is suggested that god has always been. If it is possible for something like god to always be then perhaps the universe has always been.

If a god was required to create everything, where did the matter to create come from?.........did god pull it all out of his ass?
Shibolet wrote:
If you can answer that
question some theist could give you a reply about who created the Creator.
Theists are too stupid to reply to "who created the creator". When they get confused they sound just like you!

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