havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#1 Jul 12, 2012
I do not want to go onto a religious forum in an attack mode. I refer only to the concept of a god, not to an actual being. I refer to a god with a small g.
I like the way it is phrased in Archibald Macleish's play J. B.(approximate quote from memory):
If God is God, He is not good;
if god is good, he is not God;
take the even, take the odd,
I would not sleep here if I could,
except for the wind in the grass and the
little green leaves in the wood."
It is a fine play, based on the book of Job.
There could not possibly be a God that is Allgood, and also allpowerful, allknowing, the creator of all, capable of intervening in events in the universe if it wished, and which has intentionality. Such a God would be inconsistent with the existence of pain suffered by living beings. A partly or mostly evil God, with all those characteristics other than being Allgood, would be possible.(I do not believe such a being exists. If it did, the admonition to Fear God, would indeed be wise, not because of man's evil, but because of the evilness of the God. The Christian God of the rightwing extremists seems to be a close approximation to this sort of God, only it pretends not to be, through the excuse/doctrine of human free will, otherwise known as blaming the victim.
To be a good god, a god would have to be Not all powerful, and to Not have created everything, including evil, the laws of nature on this planet and elsewhere, the possibility of chaos (whatever that might be), and the properties of energy and matter. These things would have to have included flaws and the possibilty of cruelty among living beings or to living beings, apart from the intention or action of the god.(a stupid and inept good god would not be much of an improvement, either)
There is a long list of things that are attributed to gods, words, actions, commands, intent, etc, that are not acceptable if one wants to believe in a good god. The Christian God of the ultra rightwing is one of the worst, but I doubt if many of the many other gods are very nice either. One can look at at sites like godchecker to consider many others There is also an evilgod site mostly devoted to the Christian Biblical God taken literally, I think.
It seems to me that it is useful to describe all the characteristics that a Good god would not have, and then compare them with the characteristics - and alleged words, actions, orders, commandments, and attitudes - of various alleged gods, especially the monotheistic one of Christianity and its other two accomplices.
This is enough to start with. I always am amused that people do not dare comment much on threads I start. I appreciate the ones who have courage enough to to attempt it.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#2 Jul 12, 2012
Perhaps a deity that told us to adopt ethics that are acceptable to all, irrespective of what your belief or indeed, non-belief may be.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#3 Jul 12, 2012
"You knew, didn't you? I'm part of you? Close, close, close! I'm the reason why it's no go? Why things are what they are?"
Lord of the Flies

God is made in man's image. The dark side of human nature is a part of us. Hence, the same dark side is a part of the gods we construct. We can't excise it from ourselves, and we cannot even excise it from what we aspire to be.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#4 Jul 12, 2012
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, 1988
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#5 Jul 12, 2012
Amused wrote:
"You knew, didn't you? I'm part of you? Close, close, close! I'm the reason why it's no go? Why things are what they are?"
Lord of the Flies
God is made in man's image. The dark side of human nature is a part of us. Hence, the same dark side is a part of the gods we construct. We can't excise it from ourselves, and we cannot even excise it from what we aspire to be.
maybe in general, but I think some persons aspire to be much better as persons, than the God of the Bible would be if it existed. I think that Biblical God has a much darker side than many so-called Christians have, or would have if they had that much godlike power. One of the worst things about even Christians who are otherwise good persons is that they make excuses for the bad things attributed to their God. I doubt that the same folks who make the excuses would all act as badly as the God they make excuses for.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#6 Jul 12, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.”~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, 1988
no results, regarding god, God, gods, or Gods, as far as I can see. I doubt any results are possible. what proof could there possibly be/ especially if the term is not well defined!

I do not think that the case for faith, rather than claiming to know, is debunked by pointing out that there is no evidence. The case for faith is debunked more often by pointing out that the God proposed for us to have faith in is what I call no damn good.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#7 Jul 12, 2012
Khatru wrote:
Perhaps a deity that told us to adopt ethics that are acceptable to all, irrespective of what your belief or indeed, non-belief may be.
if they are acceptable to all because they are kind, yes. not if people are already brainwashed to believe that something or other is a good thing, when it is not really kind. maybe almost all people would accept an ethic that is cruel to animals. I would not like that,
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#8 Jul 12, 2012
but i agree that ethics are most important. I advocate what I call "informed kindness." being dumb and not knowing what to do, when one wants to be kind, is a form of negligence, if one could inform onesself before encountering a situation, or try to prevent it, or at least know what expert to consult and what help to get.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#9 Jul 12, 2012
thanks for the interesting replies.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#10 Jul 12, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> maybe in general, but I think some persons aspire to be much better as persons, than the God of the Bible would be if it existed. I think that Biblical God has a much darker side than many so-called Christians have, or would have if they had that much godlike power. One of the worst things about even Christians who are otherwise good persons is that they make excuses for the bad things attributed to their God. I doubt that the same folks who make the excuses would all act as badly as the God they make excuses for.
Some people find more acceptable ways to express the dark side of human nature, some channel its energy into activities that are seen as good or beneficial. Some try to suppress it, with varying degrees of success. In any event, it is still there. To some extent, those impulses are part of how we survived and evolved. You can't be a predator unless you can tap into that dark side to kill. Protecting the tribe against 'outsiders' is part of how we are wired.

No surprise that the primitive people who wrote the bible had not developed the methods we have now for suppressing or channeling this part of their nature, or that their god would express both their highest aspirations and their darkest impulses. The bad things you see in their gods are things they see in themselves. God is the ultimate Walter Mitty fantasy. Believers see their god as a surrogate for themselves striking down sinners, a/k/a People We Don't Like, because the urge to strike those people down exists within them, while the capability probably does not. They project onto their god the same hatreds and prejudice that lives in them. The gods humans have created have always had the same flaws as the humans who created them, writ large.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#11 Jul 12, 2012
"If horses had Gods, they would look like horses!"

Xenophanes
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#12 Jul 13, 2012
Gods are depicted in interesting mythologies. Not worth more words than that.
http://www.godchecker.com/
The word seems to serve little useful purpose outside of mythology.

The consequences of superstitions (religious and otherwise) are the problems to address.

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