Is the bible a fairy tale?

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Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#1726
May 22, 2013
 

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CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
How about 10:32 minutes of reality?
ALL pictures for the reading impaired! IN LIVINIG COLOUR
And... a nice soundtrack to boot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Ancient Egyptian Religion vs Christianity - The Story Between Horus and Jesus
Please indicate why this little snippet destroys the scholarly research of people living very close to the time of Jesus? If you would not mind, please provide reference to articles by serious scholars proving beyond doubt that the Bible facts are wrong. Claims casting doubt or suspicion are a dime a dozen, but that is different to factual proof.
Maybe you regard youtube videos placed by a person apparently without credentials as a scholarly item. It is not.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

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#1727
May 22, 2013
 

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Why did you use tusks to tackle an animal?
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I usually just swallow a few beers with it.
Do the butcherin' with my hands, mostly.
Did I tell you about the time daddy made me tackle a 500 pound boar with tusks in a mudhole and wrench a truck spring out of it's throat it was choking on?
That was some messy encounter.

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

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#1728
May 23, 2013
 
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Hier is een goede grappige tabak site vanaf Amsterdam.
http://www.smokersguide.com/sg/index.html
Vertel me wat de verschillen tussen Dutch gesproken in Zuid-Afrika.
Is het een dialect?
Goede morgen mijn vriend ... Dat is de coolste site HEB IK ooit grappig tabak! Ja, ik denk dat dialect. NA zoveel verschillende dialecten, dezelfde taal ... IK spreek een beetje Zweeds en het dialect verschilt in een kwestie van 9-10 uur met de auto ...
Babylon 10
:)

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#1729
May 23, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
God is not visible in any perspective , except of course the imaginary.
You assume you are in possession of all perspective.

Since: May 10

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#1730
May 23, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
Why did you use tusks to tackle an animal?
<quoted text>
I didn't.

I employed a rear naked choke.

Since: May 10

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#1731
May 23, 2013
 
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Original sin is the idea that we are sinners just for being human. It does not matter how wicked we are.
I find it matters to The State of Alabama.

And federal courts, too.

No parole till 80% served.

Got me a dime in maximum security. No picnic, that.
Imhotep

Brandon, FL

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#1732
May 23, 2013
 

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Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Please indicate why this little snippet destroys the scholarly research of people living very close to the time of Jesus? If you would not mind, please provide reference to articles by serious scholars proving beyond doubt that the Bible facts are wrong. Claims casting doubt or suspicion are a dime a dozen, but that is different to factual proof.
Maybe you regard youtube videos placed by a person apparently without credentials as a scholarly item. It is not.
It is not my duty to be your history teacher.
Bible facts are all virtually nonexistent

Your problem is actually easy to solve, there's simply no historical evidence to support the existence of Jesus Moses or Mohammed as indicated in their respective holy books.

There is overwhelming evidence that they did not exist.

And yes - Egyptians did create religion at least the one that the desert religions copied and are based on.

If any given individual - studies seriously the origin of the desert religions - you will find the obvious.

Of course you must abandon your faith once you found the truth - few people have the guts to do it, So great is the fear of hell and the absolute paradise of heaven - what a crock!

To believe Religion you must avoid fact.
Reason logic and common sense must also be abandoned in order to make it easier to believe what you been told. There even a army of apologists to help support his face.

Ask yourself one question
Why is apologist needed
Are you admitting you're too stupid to understand what was found in the Bible?
Imhotep

Brandon, FL

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#1733
May 23, 2013
 
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
Goede morgen mijn vriend ... Dat is de coolste site HEB IK ooit grappig tabak! Ja, ik denk dat dialect. NA zoveel verschillende dialecten, dezelfde taal ... IK spreek een beetje Zweeds en het dialect verschilt in een kwestie van 9-10 uur met de auto ...
Babylon 10
:)
De mooiste pot in de wereld wordt geteeld in Amsterdam. De vrouw en ik hebben beiden Noorwegen Zweden en Denemarken bezocht.
De Zweden en de Noren zijn leuke mensen heel weinig godsdienst deze landen.
Dank u voor het toestaan &#8203;&#8203;van mij om te oefenen door Nederlandse

Leef lange en bloeien mijn lieve. ;)

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#1734
May 23, 2013
 

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[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"No, they did NOT expect that to happen".
This is BS. They did expect it and why would you not? Back then there was no dark energy all they new was gravity so why would the universe once the energy of the BB was spent not start pulling back together.[/QUOTE]

We're talking history here, just to be clear.

The thinking was that there was a play-off between the rate of expansion and the density of mass and energy. If the density was large enough, then the expansion would reverse and there would be a re-collapse. This is your scenario and is similar to a ball being thrown up and then falling again.

But, if the density were too low, there would not be enough gravity to counter-act the expansion and the expansion would continue forever, gradually slowing to a constant rate of expansion. This is similar to putting a spacecraft into space and escaping the gravity well. if the rate of expansion were high enough or the density low enough, there would not be a 'falling down' leading to a re-collapse.

The point just between these two was called the critical density. Here' once again, the expansion would continue forever, but the limiting rate would be zero.

Furthermore, which of these three happened would also determine the geometric properties of space: if the density were high (re-collapse), then space would have the geometry we have been discussing that is analogous to a sphere. This was called 'positive curvature'. If the density were very low, then the geometry of space would be more 'saddle shaped', which was called 'negative curvature'. Finally, if the density were critical, the shape would be the traditional, flat spacetime, denoted by zero curvature.

A great deal of time and energy was spent attempting to determine the overall density of mass and energy in order to determine the ultimate fate of the universe.

Now,*why* did they think these were the main possibilities? Because they solved Einstein's equations for the universe at large. They did so under the *assumption* that the cosmological constant was zero (the easiest assumption).
Once science found out they were really wrong on that point dark energy was proposed. Still no clue to what it is.
But they are looking!
Right. The ability to change ideas based on evidence is the *strength* of science, not a weakness.

In particular, when they found that the expansion rate is increasing, they modified their *simplifying assumption* that the cosmological constant is zero. With that addition to Einstein's equations (which he proposed himself long before as a modification), the range of possibilities grows (there are three variables: rate of expansion, density, and cosmological constant) and can model the accelerating expansion quite well.

Now, the obvious question is *why* the cosmological constant is the value it is. Since it is best interpreted as an energy density of the vacuum, it is likely that there are quantum mechanical processes going on. But we do not know. The naive calculations of the energy density of a vacuum based on QM are *way* off, so the question becomes why so much cancellation? Does this give us a clue to quantum gravity? We do not know.

“Think&Care”

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#1735
May 23, 2013
 

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I should also point out that the measured matter and energy densities were *way* too low to cause re-collapse. So the likelihood of eternal expansion was considered the most likely possibility.

Now, we know there is dark matter, which was not on the original tally of matter and which makes up quite a large contribution. We also know the cosmological constant is not zero, which means the range of possibilities is much larger. In particular, it seems that our universe is geometrically flat but will expand forever at an increasing rate.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#1736
May 23, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I already did..
There isn't any evidence and you know it
This is quite an interesting view as serious scholars do not dispute Jesus as historical figure - whether Christian or not. Yet, you claim, without evidence from recognized scholars whatsoever, that Jesus was not a historical person.
In the absence of reputable corroboration of your claim that Jesus is not a historical figure, and (almost) all reputable scholars supporting an opposing view, we will have to accept that my argument stands undefeated.
Having put that behind us, let us consider your next “claim
"Facts in the Bible have never been proven wrong?" LOL
Rubbish!
Please try to point out a fact that is actually in the bible. You may start with the Tower of Babel.
It seems that some historians, linguists and archaeologists (not necessarily Bible believers), come to the conclusion that the account ties up with an (1) reported history –(2) assessment of the structure of language (also using computer analysis) and the nature of thebuilding materials used, and the ziggurats found in the area.
Although this is not conclusive evidence, the information available suggests that it is not a conclusion inconsistent with findings in the various fields. Even in this instance, the claim of “false” or “rubbish” as you so eloquently describe it, is itself false – as you failed to provide evidence that information from the Bible is incorrect. Merely hinting at false information.
Your myth versus another...
Is it a coincidence or a copy?
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristiani...
1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.
2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.
3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.
4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.
5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.
6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).
Is this proposed to disprove the Bible? How?
Are you referring to the chappie born from a rock, slaughtering a bull , the religion that was popular in apparently the 1st to 4th century? This seemingly objective assessment put it into perspective
“This gross exaggeration excited the public fancy, which henceforth began to attribute all sorts of "borrowings" in Christianity to the Mithraic Mysteries. Among the most commonplace is the notion that Christmas was originally a Mithraic festival of Mithras. But there is no evidence whatsoever for any kind of festival of Mithras, leave alone a public one that supposedly occurred at the end of December.”

I am sorry to say, yet another failure to prove any false information. As mentioned numerous times, the arguments put forward at best cast merely doubt and/or suspicion, but no hard facts (I mean the stuff that scientific people are supposed to use to prove something)
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#1737
May 23, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
Failed prophecies - ;) Facts
http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm
Your claim of “facts” will easily be proven wrong. The chappies are clutching at straws. Let us just take the first two:
Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.
You will really use this as argument? He is not stating this as fact in respect of the actual number, but merely indicating that he will have a great number of offspring. It is normally quite easy for people to distinguish between hyperbole and fact. But sometimes not.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of Jesus' birth to a virgin. There are a couple problems with this prophecy...First, virgin in this verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word "almah", which actually means "young woman". A young woman is not necessarily a virgin. "Bethulah" would have been the correct word to use if the author meant virgin.
Second, nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus referred to as Immanuel.
1) Almah – Translations in the Septuagint ( translated from the Hebrew to the Greek) translated that as virgin with knowledge of the context and language at the time. Interesting 70 people at different locations were used to translate and they all used the same word indicating virgin.“Young damsel” meaning a young woman of childbearing age without implying virginity is "neanis" and is translated as maid for instance in exodus 2:8
So yet another example of mere speculation rather than fact.
2) Immanuel . Yet another blunder. It appears in Matthew 1:23 but as Emmanuel, due to different vowels used in Hebrew and Greek in this name. It was retained as such in translations for the sake of accuracy.
Jesus the great myth...
http://jesusneverexisted.com/
No sale - no proof - no evidence ;)
You really want to use that as evidence? Already in the second paragraph a “fact” that can be proven false with hard evidence is quoted….(”Nazareth did not exist as an inhabited village during the 1st century before Christ”).
This was already proven to be false in 2009 – in December of 2009, Nazareth made worldwide headlines in this respect.
In all the instances quoted by you no, but no evidence has been supplied that proves your case. Merely questioning and using stuff in support that really does not help your case
Jesus the great myth...
http://jesusneverexisted.com/
No sale - no proof - no evidence ;)

Since: May 10

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#1738
May 23, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
I should also point out that the measured matter and energy densities were *way* too low to cause re-collapse. So the likelihood of eternal expansion was considered the most likely possibility.
Now, we know there is dark matter, which was not on the original tally of matter and which makes up quite a large contribution. We also know the cosmological constant is not zero, which means the range of possibilities is much larger. In particular, it seems that our universe is geometrically flat but will expand forever at an increasing rate.
Have we observed dark matter?

“Think&Care”

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#1739
May 23, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Have we observed dark matter?
Yes. Not with light, of course. But we have observed it through its gravitational lensing effects.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#1740
May 23, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Not with light, of course. But we have observed it through its gravitational lensing effects.
And of course originally by the angular velocity of galaxies.

Though the photographs that show lensing effects are damned impressive.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#1742
May 23, 2013
 

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_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Spidey Senses?
You're awesome.
When you butcher a hog, what do you do with the esophagus?
Considering it's Buck? Likely something that is unprintable on a family website....

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#1743
May 23, 2013
 
Imhotep wrote:
Even if you're a devout Christian you will find this hilarious.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch...
Already in my "liked" list.... hilarious!

Proof to 100%, that there cannot possibly be any god at all-- what sort of god would permit such as these examples of insanity, to represent it?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#1744
May 23, 2013
 

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havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> a horrid idea, which enables the priestly class to extort money or goods from more people, and not just the obvious folks who have done something criminal. combined with the notion of a hot hell, it is a very profitable doctrine.
Which is why all forms of worship are evil, eventually: they promote "special people" who are artificially elevated above everyone else, and typically are allowed to get away with literally anything they want.

History has pounded this lesson all too frequently.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#1746
May 24, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry that dog won't hunt.
Hi there. This has really been a bit of a disappointment for me. You have now responded a couple of times but the answers you provided have not in even one case shown the Bible to be wrong. As a typical example your comments typified by “Sorry that dog won’t hunt” provides no solid argument. As with all other comments, you either do not answer it at all (as in this case) or failed to refute the argument with scholarly articles. If you disagree, please provide conclusive evidence that any of my arguments are not valid at all.
I refuse to present you with any information that are claimed by many as evidence for the reliability of the Bible, but cannot withstand proper assessment of its validity. There is for instance info on Joshua’s “missing hours”, where the claim has been made that NASA found the missing hours. An article in http://www.answersingenesis.org says this:
We know the accounts in Joshua and 2 Kings are real events in history. In no way do we dispute the historical accuracy of the Bible. However, the tale of the scientific discovery of Joshua’s lost day and Hezekiah’s extra minutes is a fable

Referring to the video, I agree that most of the stuff you see on TV under “Gospel”,.“Gospel music” etc is far removed from the gospel. I feel sorry for people that have to judge Christianity on the basis of what you see on TV and a lot of stuff on youtube. In many cases it is “another gospel” altogether, preaching stuff inconsistent with the Bible – as is the case of the “prosperity gospel” or the emergent church.
Essentially, since there is no evidence to clearly support the existence of Joseph, or Moses, or the Israeli Exodus, most of the investigation examines what was possible, what cannot be ruled out, or what fits into and Egyptian context. In other words, is it possible that such events or people could have existed from what we know of ancient Egypt. Some specifics are very possible, such as Joseph's rise to importance in the Egyptian court.
Other events, such as the Exodus, as specifically told in the Bible, are much more difficult.......
"Despite the mass of contemporary records that have been unearthed in Egypt, not one historical reference to the presence of the Israelites has yet been found there.
Yes, little, if any, remnants of the exodus in the desert I believe has been found (the possibility of Hebrew slaves digging for turquoise exists. There are however some circumstantial evidence - such as reference to building material used, the names of cities, in the Bible suggesting that they would have a good idea of the conditions. There is also reference to Pharaohs that coincides with the info recorded in the Bible, but that will apparently require the exodus to have taken place +- 1440 BC I think. But as before, this is mere speculating and not refuting. But I accept that this will raise a question mark for any unbelievers.
PRODUCE YOUR EVIDENCE OF MOSES HERE
I have none, apart from the Bible. All new discoveries however support the Bible rather than disprove it. So maybe you won’t have to wait too long.
How can anyone seriously call the Bible the "Good Book?"
It's cruel and murderous and disgusting.
Please mention the items you refer to.
..and then they should all be required to defend it.
Disingenuously, all anyone ever does is just quote a few precious verses here and there, and ignore the rest.
You are welcome to raise any issue in the Bible and I will endeavour to answer. The problem is that preachers tend to preach on topics. At our church, the preacher does expository preaching, which prevents preachers from preaching his "hobby horse" topics and taking a text here and there to support his position.
The "Word of God", far from being inerrant, has always been a work in progress
Please explain.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#1747
May 24, 2013
 
Andre, the NASA story has been debunked countless times. It never happened:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/672/...

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