Is the bible a fairy tale?
Lincoln

United States

#1167 May 11, 2013
Atheists love to make fun of believers
but defensive when others exercise freedom of speech.

There is no scientific evidence for atheism,
just an old Greek Philosophy.
Most atheists prove to be agnostics when they pause to think.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1168 May 11, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
Atheists love to make fun of believers
but defensive when others exercise freedom of speech.
There is no scientific evidence for atheism,
just an old Greek Philosophy.
Most atheists prove to be agnostics when they pause to think.
Scratch a creationist and out pops a liar with no proof of god.

But will that stop him from spamming the forums in the hope that he racks up one lost soul to gain him entry into heaven?

Poor selfish deluded fool

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#1169 May 11, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
Watch the DVD "The Star of Bethlehem". God spells it out for all men to see.[/QUOTE]

Which language does he spell it in?

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#1170 May 11, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Also notice that a universe cannot create itself and it could only be god to create it.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#1171 May 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's settle it - we can get together and you can watch me whoop your ass.
So you are gay?

I knew it all along.

Whoop

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#1172 May 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Not so fast-- deep down YOU KNOW there is NO GOD.
Proof?
The last time you took ANY medical remedies.
OF ANY KIND.
If you REALLY believed in god? And his myth-of-heaven?
YOU WOULD WELCOME BEING SICK--SO YOU COULD DIE--TO GO TO YOUR HEAVEN.
Did you?
Nope-- YOU TOOK THE MEDICINE INSTEAD.
Proving to 100% certainty, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE.
Welcome to atheism.
wow, you really do have brain damage.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#1173 May 11, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
wow, you really do have brain damage.
I'm liking Thor.

I mean-- if you are going to have a god? Why not pick one you can RESPECT!

Thor! Now THERE is a god you can RESPECT, he carries a hammer, he slings lightning, he wears chainmail.

Unlike your pansy-ass dead-jew-on-a-stick, who was such a wimp, he let plain old Romans drag his candy-ass to a torture-death.

And that was the end of that sad, sorry story too.

But Thor! There's a god you can RESPECT.

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#1174 May 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm liking Thor.
I mean-- if you are going to have a god? Why not pick one you can RESPECT!
Thor! Now THERE is a god you can RESPECT, he carries a hammer, he slings lightning, he wears chainmail.
Unlike your pansy-ass dead-jew-on-a-stick, who was such a wimp, he let plain old Romans drag his candy-ass to a torture-death.
And that was the end of that sad, sorry story too.
But Thor! There's a god you can RESPECT.
Well, at least you aren't an atheist anymore, welcome to religion.

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#1175 May 11, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Scratch a creationist and out pops a liar with no proof of god.
But will that stop him from spamming the forums in the hope that he racks up one lost soul to gain him entry into heaven?
Poor selfish deluded fool
The one who calls the other the fool, is the selfish one.
Imhotep

Riverview, FL

#1176 May 12, 2013
Lincoln wrote:
Atheists love to make fun of believers
but defensive when others exercise freedom of speech.
There is no scientific evidence for atheism,
just an old Greek Philosophy.
Most atheists prove to be agnostics when they pause to think.
I'll answer your statements in order of appearance. ;)

1. Theists are freaking hilarious. Talking livestock talking reptiles unicorns angels wizards witches you've got to be kidding!

2. Theists are always defensive when their long-held mythology is held up to scrutiny

3. There is no historical evidence that your 'saviors' ever existed outside of the magical 'holy books' and there's no scientific evidence for gods.

4. Most theists prove to be delusional because they refuse to think.

"A thing is not proved just because no one has ever questioned it. What has never been gone into impartially has never been properly gone into. Hence scepticism is the first step toward truth. It must be applied generally, because it is the touchstone."
~Denis Diderot - French author, encyclopedist, & philosopher

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1177 May 12, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
The one who calls the other the fool, is the selfish one.
Says the cowardly theist liar with no proof of god, trying to sell us higher morals.
Imhotep

Riverview, FL

#1178 May 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Odin, the Allfather created everything.
And Thor, with the Mighty Hammer? Worked it into shape.
All Hail Thor!
After a exciting evening with Aphrodite I like to relax in the arms of Morpheus.
;)

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1179 May 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Look at the times of my posts-- it takes me about an hour-- I read as fast as I type, and I skip 90% of you mindless, brain-damaged preachings.
So it take me little time.
But I suspect you weren't so much >riding< the horses, as you were sitting somewhere imaginary.
Lying is what you people do--
-- the brain damage, you see.
Not true.. Projection again Bob... I grew up with horses on my property. I don't own one any more, but my friends do,and I ride there's.. You don't get out much do you...:)

I'm going out on a boat tomorrow! Want to come... Beautiful weather here today, and tomorrow!:)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1180 May 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm liking Thor.
I mean-- if you are going to have a god? Why not pick one you can RESPECT!
Thor! Now THERE is a god you can RESPECT, he carries a hammer, he slings lightning, he wears chainmail.
Unlike your pansy-ass dead-jew-on-a-stick, who was such a wimp, he let plain old Romans drag his candy-ass to a torture-death.
And that was the end of that sad, sorry story too.
But Thor! There's a god you can RESPECT.
You are an 8-year old little snot face.

Admit it.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#1181 May 12, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You are an 8-year old little snot face.
Admit it.
Immoral defeated creationist with nothing of worth to say and no proof of the god he's lying about.

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#1182 May 12, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Immoral defeated creationist with nothing of worth to say and no proof of the god he's lying about.
How about you disprove god, what could've created the universe, IF There was nothing.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#1183 May 12, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Thor! The Mighty Thor, for the WIN!
Thor throws lightning bolts too!
And has a ... HAMMER.
That other wimpy god? He got his azz nailed to a stick...
... do the math.
The Messiah/God will also throw lightning bolts. "He will shew the lighting down of his arm" and his fruit will be a "fiery, flying serpent" And as for the hammer, "Is not my word like as a fire, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" It's referring to the dome of the rock in Jerusalem. The Temple mount will be excavated so the third Temple can be built. This must happen before the Messiah can come to Jerusalem.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#1184 May 12, 2013
So I was thinking, "If I believed the story of the Star of Bethlehem at all, which explanation could I believe?" Casting about the internet, I found these:

http://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/BethlehemSt...

Here are properties of the Star that can be obtained from the story.

It appeared during the reign of Herod.
Magi came to Jerusalem because they had seen it.
Herod and his people had NOT seen it.
The Magi had observed the Star "at its rising."
The Magi were sent to Bethlehem because of an old prophecy.
The Magi did not return to Jerusalem.

The Problem of Dates

The Matthew story says the star appeared while Herod was king. Helpfully, the historian Flavius Josephus (a Romanized Jew) recorded that Herod died shortly after a lunar eclipse and shortly before the feast of Passover. These events are determined by the motion of the Moon, which is very well understood, which allows calculation of such dates. There were two lunar eclipses which fit - one in March of 4 BCE and another in January of 1 BCE. The 4 BCE eclipse appears to be generally favored. This means that Herod died early in 4 BCE, but in any case not later than 1 BCE.

What Might Explain it?

The usual approach is to look at all possible astronomical phenomena and try to figure out if any of them might have been interpreted as the Star. The usual list follows.

Bright meteor
Comet
Supernova
Miracle
Story (fiction)
Something familiar in the sky

Analysis (Brief)
Only the Magi saw the Star, and therein lies a clue. This is good, because clues are scarce. Among other things, Magi studied astrology. The astrology of that time was a Hellenized (Greekified) form that was the origin of the horoscopes we see today. Magi watched the sky, looking for things from which to divine the future. Here you have people looking at the sky; they would notice anything interesting.

Meteor: Bright meteors can be crossed off the list rather quickly because of their very short duration. Even a really bright fireball last less than 10 seconds. That's not long enough to lead anyone anywhere.

Comet: It turns out that astrologers paid little attention to comets since they appear randomly and show no pattern. If comets were taken as omens, it was for evil.

Supernova: A bright supernova explosion ("new star") would have been bright enough for everyone to see it. Herod would not need to ask the Magi when it appeared.

Miracle: If the Star were a miracle, there is no use in looking for an astronomical explanation for the story.

Story: If the Star never existed and is a story told for theological reasons, then no astronomical explanation will ever work. But we aren't ready to write the Star off like that just yet.

Something familiar: How could something familiar sky be seen as the famous star? Recall properties 2 and 3 above. Herod and the people did not see the Star; they had to ask the Magi about it. Whatever it was, it was not obvious to the casual observer.

Bad Science

What was the Star? of Bethlehem, that is. Frederick A.(Rick) Larson, a lawyer from College Station, TX, was sponsored to speak at SMU by the Dallas Christian Leadership and SMU Office of the Chaplain on Thursday 10 April 2003. Professors Cotton and Scalise attended the presentation, which contained all the mistakes that a novice astronomer and historian would make. Larson was operating way outside his area of expertise. This is forgivable.

After the presentation, Professors Cotton and Scalise told him about The Star of Bethlehem : The Legacy of the Magi by Michael R. Molnar. But that was back in 2003. He's still giving the same flawed presentation.*NOW* he's a pseudoscientist.

continued...

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#1185 May 12, 2013
continued...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/081352...

The Star of Bethlehem : The Legacy of the Magi [Hardcover]
Michael R. Molnar (Author)

Book Description
Publication Date: September 1, 1999
Could the $50 purchase of an ancient coin by a Rutgers astronomer have unlocked the mystery of the Christmas Star? For years, scientists have looked, with little success, to astronomical records for an explanation of the magical star that guided the Magi to Christ’s manger. Intrigued by the image he found on the latest addition to his coin collection, Michael Molnar thought there might be more to learn by looking, instead, at the teachings of ancient astrologers.

Molnar argues in his book that the Star of Bethlehem was not a star at all, but rather a regal portent centering around the planet Jupiter that was eclipsed by the moon. He bases this theory on the actual beliefs of astrologers, such as the Magi, who lived around the time of Christ. Molnar found some intriguing clues to the mystery while researching the meaning of astrological symbols he found an ancient coin, which bore the image of Aries looking back at a star. He found that Aries was a symbol of Judea at the time, and that ancient astrologers believed that a new king would be born when the moon passed in front of Jupiter. Molnar wondered, could the coin have been issued as a response to the Great Messianic Portent, the Star of Bethlehem?

To match the story of the appearance of the Christmas star, Molnar also knew the event had to happen when Jupiter was “in the east.” Using these criteria and a computer program, he was able to chart an eclipse of Jupiter in Aries on April 17, 6 B.C., a day when Jupiter was precisely “in the east,” which confirmed his theory. Moreover, he found that a Roman astrologer described the conditions of that day as fitting the birth of a “divine and immortal” person.

According to Harvard University Professor Owen Gingerich,“this is the most original and important contribution of the entire 20th century” about the Magi’s star. Using clues from astronomy, astrology, and history, Molnar has created a provocative, fascinating theory on the Christmas Star. He weaves together an intriguing scientific detective story which resolves one of the world’s greatest mysteries: The Star of Bethlehem at the birth of Christ.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#1186 May 12, 2013
The above explanation is more in tune with how astrologers would have thought. The whole bit about the 'star' physically leading them and then fixing itself over Bethlehem would fit in more with the kind of exaggerations that come from a story being retold many times.

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