Is the bible a fairy tale?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3176 Jul 13, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Polly
How can anything happen without time?
There was no time until the BB happened. Where did time come from and why?
Once again, time is uncaused. it didn't 'come from' anything.
How can time come into being when there was no time? Nothing can change states with out time. Nothing can exist with out time. Yet science claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
How can nothing explode and create everything?
Pretty weird myths you all believe in.
So you are simply ducking the question of how to define the concept of 'kinds'?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3177 Jul 14, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Once again, time is uncaused. it didn't 'come from' anything.

[QUOTE]How can time come into being when there was no time? Nothing can change states with out time. Nothing can exist with out time. Yet science claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
How can nothing explode and create everything?
Pretty weird myths you all believe in.
"

So you are simply ducking the question of how to define the concept of 'kinds'?
"Once again, time is uncaused. it didn't 'come from' anything."

So time doesn't exist then?

Time is 13.7 billions years old. Now if we use the measurement of a minute
(Not that this is time but a mere measuring stick) where was time one minute before the Big Bang.

"So you are simply ducking the question of how to define the concept of 'kinds'?"

You didn't read my response to that?

"Created kinds are organisms that are defined by creation biology as sharing a common ancestry. The phrase refers to the Genesis account of the creation week during which God created many kindsof plants and animals. They are also referred to as "original kinds," "Genesis kinds," and more formally by creation scientists as baramin The term barmin was coined in 1941 by Frank Marsh from the Hebrew words bara (create) and min (kind). The study of baramin (known as Baraminology) is a rapidly growing field of creation science involved with the identification of the created kinds.[1]

The concept of the "created kind" originates from the biblical book of Genesis where it is first mentioned in chapter 1.

"The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day... Then God said,'Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.' God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying,'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.' There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said,'Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind'; and it was so."Genesis 1:12-24
In contrast to the evolutionary principle of common ancestry, creation biologists argue that organisms were created in a finite number of discrete forms as described in the Bible, which subsequently diversified through speciation and microevolution. There is much uncertainty about what exactly the Bible means when it talks of "kinds". "

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3178 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
You didn't read my response to that?
"Created kinds are organisms that are defined by creation biology as sharing a common ancestry. The phrase refers to the Genesis account of the creation week during which God created many kindsof plants and animals. They are also referred to as "original kinds," "Genesis kinds," and more formally by creation scientists as baramin The term barmin was coined in 1941 by Frank Marsh from the Hebrew words bara (create) and min (kind). The study of baramin (known as Baraminology) is a rapidly growing field of creation science involved with the identification of the created kinds.[1]
The concept of the "created kind" originates from the biblical book of Genesis where it is first mentioned in chapter 1.
"The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day... Then God said,'Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.' God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying,'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.' There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said,'Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind'; and it was so."Genesis 1:12-24
In contrast to the evolutionary principle of common ancestry, creation biologists argue that organisms were created in a finite number of discrete forms as described in the Bible, which subsequently diversified through speciation and microevolution. There is much uncertainty about what exactly the Bible means when it talks of "kinds". "
And that doesn't answer my question. How would you determine if, say, all cats are of the same 'kind'? What procedure would you follow? The Bible doesn't provide an answer to that specific question, so is it simply not possible to get an answer?

In particular, how would you determine if two modern types of animals, say lions and tigers, come from a common ancestor in *your* system?
Thinking

Lymington, UK

#3179 Jul 14, 2013
If Evolution is not real, then why is there so much for Evolution?
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
At you cut out an important line.
Thinking

Lymington, UK

#3180 Jul 14, 2013
evidence for ^

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3181 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"Once again, time is uncaused. it didn't 'come from' anything."
So time doesn't exist then?
it exists now, yes.
Time is 13.7 billions years old.
Good. We are working under the basic Big Bang theory. In that, time began with the Big Bang.
Now if we use the measurement of a minute
(Not that this is time but a mere measuring stick) where was time one minute before the Big Bang.
You ask the question 'where was time one minute before the Big Bang'.

Look *very* carefully at that question. Do you see the phrase 'one minute'? Do you realize that 'one minute' requires there to be 'time'? So, if time started at the Big Bang, there *was* no 'one minute before the Big Bang'.

You *assume* that it makes sense to talk about 'one minute before the Big Bang'. But, if time started at the Big Bang, it is, quite literally, like talking about 'one mile north of the North Pole'. Both phrases simply make no sense.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3182 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Polly
How can anything happen without time?
There was no time until the BB happened. Where did time come from and why?
Once again, time is uncaused.
How can time come into being when there was no time? Nothing can change states with out time.
Good. In other words 'states' only exist when there is time. Time did NOT 'come into being' because 'coming into being' requires time.
Nothing can exist with out time.
Good so far.
Yet science claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
That is one working theory, yes.
How can nothing explode and create everything?
It didn't. There was no time when there was nothing.
Pretty weird myths you all believe in.
The universe is strange, isn't ti?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3183 Jul 14, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>it exists now, yes.

[QUOTE]Time is 13.7 billions years old."

Good. We are working under the basic Big Bang theory. In that, time began with the Big Bang.

[QUOTE]Now if we use the measurement of a minute
(Not that this is time but a mere measuring stick) where was time one minute before the Big Bang.
"

You ask the question 'where was time one minute before the Big Bang'.

Look *very* carefully at that question. Do you see the phrase 'one minute'? Do you realize that 'one minute' requires there to be 'time'? So, if time started at the Big Bang, there *was* no 'one minute before the Big Bang'.

You *assume* that it makes sense to talk about 'one minute before the Big Bang'. But, if time started at the Big Bang, it is, quite literally, like talking about 'one mile north of the North Pole'. Both phrases simply make no sense.
"Good. We are working under the basic Big Bang theory. In that, time began with the Big Bang."

No we are talking about pre Big Bang.

"In that, time began with the Big Bang."
Began from what?

"You *assume* that it makes sense to talk about 'one minute before the Big Bang'. But, if time started at the Big Bang, it is, quite literally, like talking about 'one mile north of the North Pole'. Both phrases simply make no sense."

Wrong. I am talking of a measurement
As in.....

What is the height of a 2 dimensional object?

Must be tough unable to talk about things like this because you're stuck in a box.

Since: Nov 12

Pittsburgh, PA

#3184 Jul 14, 2013
Maybe if you good consider the evolution just in each of your "kinds" and find the origins... Or for example where all the cats came from... What is the most ancient cat you can follow the trail back to...

Then... If you are brave enough.... Go back a little further...
And repeat...
And repeat...
And repeat...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3185 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"Once again, time is uncaused. it didn't 'come from' anything."
So time doesn't exist then?
False "conclusion" based on an uneducated and very simplistic worldview.

One that is also quite... wrong.

But typical of a bronze-age goat herder's worldview...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3186 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
What is the height of a 2 dimensional object?
The exact same "height" as your god: zero.

LMAO!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3187 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"Good. We are working under the basic Big Bang theory. In that, time began with the Big Bang."
No we are talking about pre Big Bang.
You are *assuming* there *was* a Pre-Big Bang. And that is your mistake.
"In that, time began with the Big Bang."
Began from what?
You assume it had to begin 'from' something. That is another mistake.
"You *assume* that it makes sense to talk about 'one minute before the Big Bang'. But, if time started at the Big Bang, it is, quite literally, like talking about 'one mile north of the North Pole'. Both phrases simply make no sense."
Wrong. I am talking of a measurement
As in.....
What is the height of a 2 dimensional object?
Must be tough unable to talk about things like this because you're stuck in a box.
Again, you don't seem to comprehend that if there is no time, it is impossible to talk about 'one minute'.

You are not talking about a measurement because there is nothing to measure. If there is no time, then 'one minute' is meaningless.

Just as the phrase 'one mile north of the North Pole' makes no sense (but is just a measurement), so also for the phrase 'one minute before the Big Bang'.

As for boxes,*you* are 'stuck in a box' of assuming that time always makes sense. Quite literally, there is no 'before the Big Bang'. The phrase is simply meaningless.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3188 Jul 14, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>And that doesn't answer my question. How would you determine if, say, all cats are of the same 'kind'? What procedure would you follow? The Bible doesn't provide an answer to that specific question, so is it simply not possible to get an answer?

In particular, how would you determine if two modern types of animals, say lions and tigers, come from a common ancestor in *your* system?
Really? You can't figure that out?

Not to good with science are you?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3189 Jul 14, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>You are *assuming* there *was* a Pre-Big Bang. And that is your mistake.

[QUOTE]"In that, time began with the Big Bang."
Began from what?"

You assume it had to begin 'from' something. That is another mistake.

[QUOTE]"You *assume* that it makes sense to talk about 'one minute before the Big Bang'. But, if time started at the Big Bang, it is, quite literally, like talking about 'one mile north of the North Pole'. Both phrases simply make no sense."
Wrong. I am talking of a measurement
As in.....
What is the height of a 2 dimensional object?
Must be tough unable to talk about things like this because you're stuck in a box.
"

Again, you don't seem to comprehend that if there is no time, it is impossible to talk about 'one minute'.

You are not talking about a measurement because there is nothing to measure. If there is no time, then 'one minute' is meaningless.

Just as the phrase 'one mile north of the North Pole' makes no sense (but is just a measurement), so also for the phrase 'one minute before the Big Bang'.

As for boxes,*you* are 'stuck in a box' of assuming that time always makes sense. Quite literally, there is no 'before the Big Bang'. The phrase is simply meaningless.
"Again, you don't seem to comprehend that if there is no time, it is impossible to talk about 'one minute'."

So then you are stuck with nothing exploding and creating everything.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#3190 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"Good. We are working under the basic Big Bang theory. In that, time began with the Big Bang."
No we are talking about pre Big Bang.
"In that, time began with the Big Bang."
Began from what?
"You *assume* that it makes sense to talk about 'one minute before the Big Bang'. But, if time started at the Big Bang, it is, quite literally, like talking about 'one mile north of the North Pole'. Both phrases simply make no sense."
Wrong. I am talking of a measurement
As in.....
What is the height of a 2 dimensional object?
Must be tough unable to talk about things like this because you're stuck in a box.
Time like energy requires at least 2 dimensions to exist.
Before the big bang there is zero dimensions, therefore there is no counting and no energy. This is where han purple is so wierd and how a 2 dimensional thing can exist in 3d space.

Energy in 2d moves like ripples on the surface of a pond spreading out. In 3d space the energy flows like a expanding bubble.
This is how a radio wave flows through space, like expanding bubbles from the point of transmission.
Han purple when cooled to almost absolute zero , and subjected to a magnetic field, the magnetic waves move through and out of it like 2-2 dimensional waves on the surface of a pond. Whether space inside the pigment has actually become 2d hasn't been determined, but the effect is a 2-2 dimensional waves. So 2 d can exist in 3d space.

The universe itself is expanding like the bubble ,and time is the count of this expansion. So before it started expanding there is no counting no energy and no time. It has been expanding at our best count 13.7 billion years +- a billion, before that there was nothing to count and nothing could move within zero space.
Don't know if you can picture it now, but that's the best description I can give you. Of how time came into existence, but how space started expanding, is still under investigation.
That doesn't mean it was created, the consensus is that it was uncaused.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3191 Jul 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>Time like energy requires at least 2 dimensions to exist.
Before the big bang there is zero dimensions, therefore there is no counting and no energy. This is where han purple is so wierd and how a 2 dimensional thing can exist in 3d space.

Energy in 2d moves like ripples on the surface of a pond spreading out. In 3d space the energy flows like a expanding bubble.
This is how a radio wave flows through space, like expanding bubbles from the point of transmission.
Han purple when cooled to almost absolute zero , and subjected to a magnetic field, the magnetic waves move through and out of it like 2-2 dimensional waves on the surface of a pond. Whether space inside the pigment has actually become 2d hasn't been determined, but the effect is a 2-2 dimensional waves. So 2 d can exist in 3d space.

The universe itself is expanding like the bubble ,and time is the count of this expansion. So before it started expanding there is no counting no energy and no time. It has been expanding at our best count 13.7 billion years +- a billion, before that there was nothing to count and nothing could move within zero space.
Don't know if you can picture it now, but that's the best description I can give you. Of how time came into existence, but how space started expanding, is still under investigation.
That doesn't mean it was created, the consensus is that it was uncaused.
Why did time appear?

How then did time appear?

Where did time come from?(Nothingness?)

"Uncaused" is that the name of your deity?

You don't see the paradox that nothing can happen or exist with out time and then time appeared?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#3192 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did time appear?
How then did time appear?
Where did time come from?(Nothingness?)
"Uncaused" is that the name of your deity?
You don't see the paradox that nothing can happen or exist with out time and then time appeared?
You cannot see time is a result of the expansion of the universe allowing the flow of energy. It's ok that you cannot understand. But you really should quit asking why , and be satisfied waiting for your rapture. After all THAT is what you seek, not answers or solutions or even knowledge.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3194 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did time appear?
Why does mass create gravity?

Certainly not because of what **you** believe in: magic.

For that is all you have to offer: magic.

The magic of your magical sky-god: "goddidit".

Magic.

That's all you have.

And it answers zip.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3195 Jul 14, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Why does mass create gravity?

Certainly not because of what **you** believe in: magic.

For that is all you have to offer: magic.

The magic of your magical sky-god: "goddidit".

Magic.

That's all you have.

And it answers zip.
"Why does mass create gravity? "

Because God said so.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#3196 Jul 14, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"Why does mass create gravity? "
Because God said so.
You have had that answer for everything for 3,000 years, it hasn't turned out to be the real answer yet. But it is the answer when you have no idea what the answer is.

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