Is the bible a fairy tale?

Since: Jun 13

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#2973 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
Continued..........

(24) Rocks of different geologic 'ages' have similar physical features indicating that they could have been created by a single worldwide event - such as a global flood.

(25) There is an absence of physical evidence that indicates a time change between rocks of 'successive ages'. Sedimentary rock layers worldwide appear to have been laid down very quickly, as by a global flood.

(26) Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.

(27) All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.

(28) Many geological processes have a recent geological date. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie. as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(29) Recent volcanic rocks are distributed widely.(see last point above)

(30) The uplift of the major mountain ranges are relatively young, based on evolutionary chronology. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(31) There is a lack of correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed palaeontological 'ages'(Morris p:686). A global flood could easily create an illusion of geologic 'ages'. The consequent conflict between dating methods confirms the illusion.

(32) Fossil 'graveyards' are found worldwide, and in rocks of all 'ages'. Only a catastrophic global flood could achieve this.

(33) The burial of fossil deposits worldwide had to have occurred in a catastrophic event. Only massive flooding could bury in such a fashion.

(34) Marine fossils can be found on the crests of mountains. Apart from mountain uplifting, this can also be explained as the marine animals being washed there and then buried. A global flood could do this.

(35) There is a worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, indicating transportation on a global scale by a global flood.

(36) Fossils from different 'ages' are often found mixed. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.

(37) Worldwide, fossils from different 'ages' are often found in the wrong order. This indicates a global mixing of fossils as a consequence of a global flood.

http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2974 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
Continued..........

(38) Supposed evolutionary fossil sequences often parallel the ecological zonation that occurs today (Morris p:686). If a global flood mixed organisms from different areas, it would create the illusion of a fossil sequence over time.

(39) Dinosaurs and many other prehistoric creatures died out suddenly. A catastrophe such as a global flood could have produced this result.

(40) Polystrate fossils (viz. vertical fossil tree trunks) that are found worldwide indicate turbulent or rapid deposition. A global flood would be required to do this worldwide.

(41) Polystrate fossils also form when water-logged timber sinks in a large body of water. A year long global flood could produce worldwide polystrate fossils formed in this way.

(42) Animal tracks and other ephemeral markings (ripple-marks and raindrop imprints) have been preserved throughout the geological column. Rapid covering of these markings is required for this preservation worldwide - ie. by a global flood.

(43) Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column. With the large number of meteorites hitting the earth each year, they should be very plentiful throughout the sedimentary rocks - unless much of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down in one year.

(44) Sedimentary rocks contain fossil ripple-marks and raindrop imprints, but no hail imprints. A global flood (with associated rain), that was not caused by storms would not leave hail imprint marks.

(45) Some desert areas show evidence of 'recent' water bodies. Water from a recent global flood would remain in large pools (bodies of water) for some time before evaporating.

(46) There is evidence of a recent drastic rise in sea level. A global flood could easily have created this feature.

(47) Raised shorelines are found worldwide indicating a time when the world had a different sea level. A consistent interpretation of this is that a global flood altered the levels of the oceans and seas.

(48) Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world are consistent with the recession of a global flood.

(49) River terraces are found worldwide.(Morris p:685)

(50) There is a universal occurrence of rivers in valleys too large for the present stream. Slow erosion over millions of years could not have created these valleys as the mountains would have eroded, keeping pace with the valley erosion. The drainage of global floodwaters from the land surface could easily create such wide valleys in a short period of time.

(51) Only modern sediments show any evidence of surface drainage systems. If the majority of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down by a global flood there would not be any sign of drainage erosion except for the top layers eroded during the recession of the flood waters off the land.

(52) Hydrologic evidence points to the rapid deposition of sedimentary rock layers. Therefore, the thousand's of metres of sediment must have been deposited by a catastrophic global flood.

(53) Hydrologic evidence points to the world's sedimentary rocks being deposited in one continuous episode. All the layers could have been laid down by a single event, such as a global flood.

(54) Hydrologic experiments show that flowing sediment automatically settles out in distinct layers. Therefore, sedimentary rock layers can be just as easily explained as flood debris, as slow deposition.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2975 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
(55) There is a worldwide occurrence of deep alluvial deposits and sedimentary rocks consistent with a huge global flood.

(56) There is a near-random deposition of formational sequences.(Morris p:685)

(57) Nowhere in the world is it possible to see the complete geologic column as a single structure. It is always found in bits and pieces, and mostly with pieces missing. Globally, a worldwide flood could create the illusion of a geologic column.

(58) The oldest organisms still alive on Earth today, the Californian Redwoods, Sequoias and Bristlecone Pines, are around 3,000-4,000 years old. Nothing is older that the date of Noah's flood.

(59) The account in Genesis speaks of the flood being a universal event at least thirty times.

(60) God promised three times not to "smite [destroy - NKJ] every living thing" by a flood (Gen8:21; 9:11; 9:15). Three occurrences in Scripture indicates absolute truth.

(61) Following the flood, Eden was no longer discussed geographically. If it was a local flood, its general whereabouts would still be known. The total obliteration of the whole earth's geography is therefore inferred - such as by a global flood.

(62) The "waters above the firmament [earth - NKJ]" would not have been localised into a small area.(Gen 1:7)

(63) No rain on the earth before the flood speaks of a worldwide condition.(Gen 2:5)

(64) The whole earth was watered by a mist, prior to the flood.(Gen 2:6)

(65) The dawn of civilization had a high civilization (Genesis chapter 4). This was wiped out and did not recover for a long time.

(66) The long life spans of the pre-diluvial people indicates an entirely different biosphere.(Gen 5:5; 5:8; 5:11; etc)

(67) The subsequent decline in life span following the flood indicates a radically different biosphere.(Gen 23:1; 25:7)

(68) God described the pre-flood people as universally evil (Gen 6:5). He never described the post-flood people as universally evil, so something universal (ie. worldwide) must have happened to weed it out.

(69) Mankind had multiplied all over the earth (Gen 6:1), so the flood had to be global to destroy them all.

(70) God was sorry that he created all living creatures, not just a localised population of animal creatures.(Gen 6:6-7)

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2976 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
(71) The whole earth was seen by God as corrupt.(Gen 6:11-12)

(72) God decided to destroy the whole earth.(Gen 6:13)

(73) Everything that had breath was to die.(Gen 6:17)

(74) The purpose of the ark was to keep two of every breathing animal (ie. worldwide species) alive.(Gen 6:19)

(75) Two of every kind of animal and bird came to Noah, not just local fauna.(Gen 6:20)

(76) Noah had to collect samples of all food eaten, not just local foodstuffs.(Gen 6:21)

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2977 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
(77) God wanted the ark "to keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth".(Gen 7:3)

(78) God promised to destroy every living thing on the earth.(Gen 7:4)

(79) The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood, so it must have been different to all other floods.(Gen 7:10)

(80) All the "fountains of the great deep" broke up in one incident.(Gen 7:11)

(81) The "fountains of the great deep" would not have affected a simple, local land-based flood.(Gen 7:11)

(82) The opening of the windows of heaven (if this refers to "the waters above the firmament") would had a global impact.(Gen 7:11)

(83) The double superlative, "all the high mountains under all the heavens" ["all the high hills under the whole heaven" - NKJ], indicates a global covering.(Gen 7:19)

(84) The highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits (6.75m) of water.(Gen 7:20)

(85) The Hebrew word, "kasah", used to mean that the mountains were covered has a meaning of "overwhelming".(Gen 7:20)

(86) Every human died on the whole earth.(Gen 7:21)

(87) All living things on dry land, with "nephesh" life in them, died.(Gen 7:22)

(88) Every living thing on the earth was destroyed.(Gen 7:23)

(89) The floodwater remained at maximum height for 5 months.(Gen 7:24)

(90) The "fountains of the deep" were open for 5 months.(Gen 8:2)

http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2978 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
Continued........

(91) The "windows of heaven" were open for 5 months.(Gen 8:2)

(92) The floodwaters took 5 months to drain off the land.(Gen 8:3)

(93) The ark floated above the mountains for 5 months.(Gen 8:4)

(94) The waters receded for 2.5 months before the mountain tops were visible.(Gen 8:5)

(95) The dove couldn't find solid ground until the water had receded for 4 months.(Gen 8:9)

(96) Plants did not grow for 9 months.(Gen 8:11)

(97) Noah, his family, and the animals were in the ark for over a year.(Gen 8:14)

(98) All current life came out of the ark.(Gen 8:19)

(99) God promised that he would not destroy all living things again in the same way.(Gen 8:21)

(100) The current seasonal conditions date from the end of the flood (Gen 8:22), indicating a radical change from the previous environment.

(101) God commanded Noah and his family to breed and fill the earth with people again.(Gen 9:1)

(102) A flood will not be used by God to destroy the earth again.(Gen 9:11)

(103) The earth was re-populated from Noah's family.(Gen 9:19)

(104) Everyone spoke the same language after the flood (Gen 11:1), indicating decent from a single ancestor.

(105) Everyone lived in the same area after the flood.(Gen 11:9)



FROM ELSEWHERE IN SCRIPTURE......[9 reasons]

(106) The floodwaters overturned the earth.(Job 12:15)

(107) The floodwaters covered the whole earth.(Is 54:9)

(108) The flood took all people off the face of the earth.(Matt 24:39)- Jesus talking

(109) The flood destroyed all humans.(Luke 17:27)- Jesus talking

(110) The whole world was condemned.(Heb 11:7)

(111) God destroyed the old world.(II Peter 2:5)

(112) God flooded the whole world.(II Peter 2:5)

(113) The Greek word for flood, "kataklusmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood.(II Peter 2:5)

(114) The old world perished by flood.(II Peter 3:6)



http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm
..........
Thinking

Kingston Upon Thames, UK

#2979 Jun 24, 2013
Cult and paste.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Continued..........
(38) Supposed evolutionary fossil sequences often parallel the ecological zonation that occurs today (Morris p:686). If a global flood mixed organisms from different areas, it would create the illusion of a fossil sequence over time.
(39) Dinosaurs and many other prehistoric creatures died out suddenly. A catastrophe such as a global flood could have produced this result.
(40) Polystrate fossils (viz. vertical fossil tree trunks) that are found worldwide indicate turbulent or rapid deposition. A global flood would be required to do this worldwide.
(41) Polystrate fossils also form when water-logged timber sinks in a large body of water. A year long global flood could produce worldwide polystrate fossils formed in this way.
(42) Animal tracks and other ephemeral markings (ripple-marks and raindrop imprints) have been preserved throughout the geological column. Rapid covering of these markings is required for this preservation worldwide - ie. by a global flood.
(43) Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column. With the large number of meteorites hitting the earth each year, they should be very plentiful throughout the sedimentary rocks - unless much of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down in one year.
(44) Sedimentary rocks contain fossil ripple-marks and raindrop imprints, but no hail imprints. A global flood (with associated rain), that was not caused by storms would not leave hail imprint marks.
(45) Some desert areas show evidence of 'recent' water bodies. Water from a recent global flood would remain in large pools (bodies of water) for some time before evaporating.
(46) There is evidence of a recent drastic rise in sea level. A global flood could easily have created this feature.
(47) Raised shorelines are found worldwide indicating a time when the world had a different sea level. A consistent interpretation of this is that a global flood altered the levels of the oceans and seas.
(48) Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world are consistent with the recession of a global flood.
(49) River terraces are found worldwide.(Morris p:685)
(50) There is a universal occurrence of rivers in valleys too large for the present stream. Slow erosion over millions of years could not have created these valleys as the mountains would have eroded, keeping pace with the valley erosion. The drainage of global floodwaters from the land surface could easily create such wide valleys in a short period of time.
(51) Only modern sediments show any evidence of surface drainage systems. If the majority of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down by a global flood there would not be any sign of drainage erosion except for the top layers eroded during the recession of the flood waters off the land.
(52) Hydrologic evidence points to the rapid deposition of sedimentary rock layers. Therefore, the thousand's of metres of sediment must have been deposited by a catastrophic global flood.
(53) Hydrologic evidence points to the world's sedimentary rocks being deposited in one continuous episode. All the layers could have been laid down by a single event, such as a global flood.
(54) Hydrologic experiments show that flowing sediment automatically settles out in distinct layers. Therefore, sedimentary rock layers can be just as easily explained as flood debris, as slow deposition.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2980 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"
http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-b...
"Long before the discovery of the scablands, geologists dismissed the role of catastrophic floods in interpreting European geology. By the end of the 19th century such ideas not only were out of fashion but were geological heresy. When J Harlen Bretz uncovered evidence of giant floods in eastern Washington in the 1920s, it took most of the 20th century for other geologists to believe him. Geologists had so thoroughly vilified the concept of great floods that they could not believe it when somebody actually found evidence of one.
Bretz was a classic field geologist and a controversial figure throughout his career. In 1925 he presented the story of the region’s giant floods, seeing what others at first could not—and then would not—see. He spent his lifetime piecing together the story of how a raging wall of water hundreds of feet high roared across eastern Washington, carving deep channels before cascading down the Columbia River Gorge as a wall of water high enough to turn Oregon’s Willamette Valley into a vast backwater lake.
Bretz found exotic granite boulders perched on basalt cliffs hundreds of feet above the highest recorded river level. In the scablands, a desolate region stripped of soil, he came across dry waterfalls and potholes hundreds of feet above the modern river. Gigantic gravel bars deposited within dry valleys implied deep, fast-flowing water. Streamlined hills rose like islands, extending more than 100 feet above the scoured-out channelways.
He realized the chaotic landscape had been carved by an enormous flood that chewed deep channels through hundreds of feet of solid basalt. The ancient flood deposited an enormous delta around Portland, Oregon, backing up flow into the Willamette Valley. The waters, he eventually realized, could have come from catastrophic drainage of Lake Missoula, an ancient, glacier-dammed lake in western Montana.
Bretz was ridiculed until 1940, when geologist Joe Pardee described giant ripple marks on the bed of Lake Missoula. The 50-foot-high ripples, he said, were formed by fast-flowing currents and not by the sluggish bottom water of a lake. Only sudden failure of the glacial dam could have released the 2,000-foot-deep lake. The catastrophic release of 600 cubic miles of water through a narrow gap would sweep away everything in its path. In 1979, when Bretz was 97 years old, the Geological Society of America awarded him its highest honor, the Penrose Medal."
Yes, there was a massive flood when the lake that was the great salt lake emptied. That is not the same as your proposed global flood.

Nobody denies that floods happened in the past. Nobody denies that very large floods happened in the past. What is denied is that there was a *global* flood that happened a few thousand years ago.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2981 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"
A fossilized human skull was found in coal that was sold in Germany (mid-1800s). A jawbone of a child was found in coal in Tuscany (1958). Two giant human molars were found in Montana (1926). A human leg was found by a West Virginia coal miner. It had changed into coal.�pp. 34-35.
A woman, in Illinois, reportedly found a gold chain in a chunk of coal which broke open (1891). A small steel cube was found in a block of coal in Austria (1885). An iron pot was found in coal in Oklahoma (1912). A woman found a child's spoon in coal (1937).�p. 35.
In 1944 Newton Anderson claimed to have found this bell inside a lump of coal that was mined near his house in West Virginia. When Newton dropped the lump it broke, revealing a bell encased inside.
What is a brass bell with an iron clapper doing in coal that is supposed to be hundreds of
millions of years old? According to Norm Scharbough's book Ammunition (which includes a compilation of many such "coal anecdotes") the bell was extensively analyzed at the University of Oklahoma and it was found to contain an unusual mixture of metals, different from any modern usage. Photo and text from Genesis Park.
Man-made objects in rock.

An iron nail was found in a Cretaceous block from the Mesozoic era (mid-1800s). A gold thread was found in stone in England (1844). An iron nail was found in quartz in California (1851). A silver vessel was found in solid rock in Massachusetts (1851).
The mold of a metal screw was found in a chunk of feldspar (1851). An intricately carved and inlaid metal bowl was found in solid rock (1852). An iron nail was found in rock in a Peruvian mine by Spanish conquistadores (1572).�pp. 35-36.
http://s8int.com/page8.html
There are known situations where rock deposits can 'flow' around recently made objects. Generally, this requires a softer rock or one that can be dissolved to some extent in water (like limestone). Most people are simply not aware of how much certain rocks (not all) can change in a few decades.

Again, this is not evidence for your global flood.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#2982 Jun 24, 2013
Wow...that was a LOT of spam.

Meanwhile, there is still no proof that any of the thousands of gods ever worshipped by man ever existed.

Next?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2983 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"
"A remarkable fossil find has been found in Peru: 346 whales buried in diatomaceous earth. The preservation of the whales is so pristine and complete, the authors of the paper in the Feb. 2004 issue of Geology1 conclude that the whales had to be buried rapidly, in days or weeks. If so, it represents a rate of accumulation of diatoms many times higher than what occurs in modern oceans./
From the research article announcing this discovery:

"CONCLUSIONS
Anoxia or extensive diatom mats don’t seem to be adequate ex-
planations for the unusual whale preservation or the lack of inverte-
brate scavengers and lack of bioturbation. The evidence for shallow
water and high energy do not favor anoxia, and the sediment contains
evidence of broken-up mats, but not intact series of mats. Several lines
of evidence seem to allow the possibility that the Pisco Formation
diatomaceous sediment accumulated more rapidly than commonly oc-
curs today. For example, Pisco Formation diatom frustules do not show
evidence of dissolution, perhaps because, in the relatively shallow wa-
ter, they accumulated too rapidly to dissolve. Sedimentary structures
also indicate tidal current action and storms, which could have acted
to concentrate diatoms in the shallow bays along the Peruvian coast.
The well-preserved whale carcasses seem to require rapid burial, within
weeks to months for any given whale, to account for their preservation
and articulation, including fossilization of some nonbony tissues. This
necessity of rapid burial indicates that, at times in the past, diatom
accumulation rates were much higher than those typical in modern
oceans. This rapid accumulation was most likely predominantly the
result of lateral advection of phytoplankton by currents and/or storms
into shallow bays. The volume of phytoplankton available for advec-
tion was enhanced by abundant blooms offshore, as most diatom spe-
cies represent environments with deeper water than the bays in which
they accumulated (B. Winsborough, 2003, personal commun.)."

In other words, there was a fungal bloom that dramatically increased the rate of diatom deposition.

Again, this is NOT evidence for a *global* flood, let alone one in the last few thousand years (the whales in the article are millions of years old: Miocene-Pliocene).

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#2984 Jun 24, 2013
Just Think wrote:
Wow...that was a LOT of spam.
Meanwhile, there is still no proof that any of the thousands of gods ever worshipped by man ever existed.
Next?
The Tzar Tzar's are coming, The Tzar Tzar's are coming, beware of spam attacks.

The Tzar Tzar's are coming, The Tzar Tzar's are coming, lol

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2985 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
FROM LOGIC.........[12 reasons]
(1) For rain to fall for forty uninterrupted days on one localized area is currently close to impossible.
(2) A rainbow appeared for the first time after the flood, indicating a radical change in atmospheric conditions as a consequence of a cataclysmic event.
(3) The waters remained for over a year. This would not occur in a local flood.
(4) To be higher than the highest mountains, the flood could not have been local.
(5) To cover the mountains continually for 9 months, the flood could not have been local.
(6) The purpose of the flood was to destroy all human beings. This could only refer to a worldwide flood.
(7) If the flood was local, people living elsewhere in the world would have escaped.
(8) The enormous size of the ark (equivalent to the capacity of 500 railroad freight carriages) would hold much more than local species of animals.
(9) The purpose of the ark to "keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth" is only rational if the flood was global.
(10) Noah and his family could have migrated to a locality away from the local area to be flooded. There would have been no need to spend 120 years building an ark.
(11) Many of the animals in the flooding area could have easily migrated to escape the deluge if the flood was local. There would have been no need to build an ark to provide them with a safe haven.
(12) If God made a promise based on a lie (ie. that the flood being local rather than global), then he can't be trusted to save us from our sins.
http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm
All of these assume that the Biblical story is true. Because of this assumption, none of these is *evidence* of a flood.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2986 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"
Here's a list of a few places that have their own version of a world wide flood.
Wow, a lot of places have floods and make legends. That is NOT evidence of a global flood, just that people think along the same lines in many places.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2987 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Continued......
FROM SCIENCE.......[45 reasons]
(13) There is a worldwide tradition among natives of a global flood.
not *scientific* evidence for a global flood.
(14) According to current archaeological evidence, civilization appears to have originated in the Ararat/Babylon region.
Not evidence for a global flood.
(15) The genealogical records of many of the European kings can be traced back to Japheth, son of Noah.
(16) An analysis of population growth statistics confirms that there was zero population at the estimated time of the end of the flood. This indicates the global demise of humans by Noah's flood.
Both of these are outright falsehoods. European kings, like kings in many other lands, have *mythical* genealogies designed to support their power. The other is simply wrong.(If you want to dispute this, please give a reference in a refereed journal).
(17) Human palaeontological evidence exists even in the earliest geologic 'ages'(eg human footprints in Cambrian, Carboniferous, and Cretaceous rocks). If the layers of rock were laid down by a global flood and then interpreted as evolutionary long-ages, human remains and artefacts would appear to be in such positions.
(18) The most ancient human artefacts date to the post-flood era. This indicates that the earlier hardware could have been buried beyond reach by a huge flood.
(19) Calculations have shown that there is nearly the same amount of organic material present today, worldwide, as there would have been if all the fossils were still alive (Morris p:685). This indicates the demise of all living things in a single global event.
Neither of these is backed by *scientific* evidence. The imaginations of Morris do not qualify as scientific conclusions.
(20) Paleontological evidence indicates that the early earth had a warm/humid climate. This is consistent with the destruction of the old atmosphere by the processes of a global flood as described in Genesis.
Actually, the early earth had a variety of different climates during different stages. There was even a stage where the earth was covered in ice.
(21) The glacial period started very quickly. This would require a cataclysmic event such as a global flood to trigger such a rapid climatic change.
As we are learning, such changes can be triggered by rather small changes in carbon dioxide levels and differences in from the Milankovich cycles.
(22) Similar geologic formations exist in rocks of all ages (eg rifts, folds, faults, thrusts, etc.). These can just as easily be explained as being created in the same cataclysmic global event.
Or simply by noting that these are the types of formations rocks naturally make.
(23) Studies show that much of the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of metres thick, it would have required a catastrophic global flood.
Except that it was NOT on a global scale. it was on many different local scales.

Once again, your 'evidence' fails miserably. Please learn some real science.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#2988 Jun 24, 2013
I'm just taking a few of the remaining ones. They are uniformly bad science. Henry Morris is one of the top creationist liars.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
(58) The oldest organisms still alive on Earth today, the Californian Redwoods, Sequoias and Bristlecone Pines, are around 3,000-4,000 years old. Nothing is older that the date of Noah's flood.
But we can link together tree-rins to get dates much older then this. There is no break for a global flood. The same can be said about ice cores that go back hundreds of thousands of years.
(59) The account in Genesis speaks of the flood being a universal event at least thirty times.
(60) God promised three times not to "smite [destroy - NKJ] every living thing" by a flood (Gen8:21; 9:11; 9:15). Three occurrences in Scripture indicates absolute truth.
(61) Following the flood, Eden was no longer discussed geographically. If it was a local flood, its general whereabouts would still be known. The total obliteration of the whole earth's geography is therefore inferred - such as by a global flood.
(62) The "waters above the firmament [earth - NKJ]" would not have been localised into a small area.(Gen 1:7)
(63) No rain on the earth before the flood speaks of a worldwide condition.(Gen 2:5)
(64) The whole earth was watered by a mist, prior to the flood.(Gen 2:6)
(65) The dawn of civilization had a high civilization (Genesis chapter 4). This was wiped out and did not recover for a long time.
(66) The long life spans of the pre-diluvial people indicates an entirely different biosphere.(Gen 5:5; 5:8; 5:11; etc)
(67) The subsequent decline in life span following the flood indicates a radically different biosphere.(Gen 23:1; 25:7)
(68) God described the pre-flood people as universally evil (Gen 6:5). He never described the post-flood people as universally evil, so something universal (ie. worldwide) must have happened to weed it out.
(69) Mankind had multiplied all over the earth (Gen 6:1), so the flood had to be global to destroy them all.
(70) God was sorry that he created all living creatures, not just a localised population of animal creatures.(Gen 6:6-7)
None of these is scientific evidence for a global flood. If you think this constitutes evidence, then you need to learn a LOT more how science is actually done.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2989 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Continued........
(91) The "windows of heaven" were open for 5 months.(Gen 8:2)
(92) The floodwaters took 5 months to drain off the land.(Gen 8:3)
(93) The ark floated above the mountains for 5 months.(Gen 8:4)
(94) The waters receded for 2.5 months before the mountain tops were visible.(Gen 8:5)
(95) The dove couldn't find solid ground until the water had receded for 4 months.(Gen 8:9)
(96) Plants did not grow for 9 months.(Gen 8:11)
(97) Noah, his family, and the animals were in the ark for over a year.(Gen 8:14)
(98) All current life came out of the ark.(Gen 8:19)
(99) God promised that he would not destroy all living things again in the same way.(Gen 8:21)
(100) The current seasonal conditions date from the end of the flood (Gen 8:22), indicating a radical change from the previous environment.
(101) God commanded Noah and his family to breed and fill the earth with people again.(Gen 9:1)
(102) A flood will not be used by God to destroy the earth again.(Gen 9:11)
(103) The earth was re-populated from Noah's family.(Gen 9:19)
(104) Everyone spoke the same language after the flood (Gen 11:1), indicating decent from a single ancestor.
(105) Everyone lived in the same area after the flood.(Gen 11:9)
FROM ELSEWHERE IN SCRIPTURE......[9 reasons]
(106) The floodwaters overturned the earth.(Job 12:15)
(107) The floodwaters covered the whole earth.(Is 54:9)
(108) The flood took all people off the face of the earth.(Matt 24:39)- Jesus talking
(109) The flood destroyed all humans.(Luke 17:27)- Jesus talking
(110) The whole world was condemned.(Heb 11:7)
(111) God destroyed the old world.(II Peter 2:5)
(112) God flooded the whole world.(II Peter 2:5)
(113) The Greek word for flood, "kataklusmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood.(II Peter 2:5)
(114) The old world perished by flood.(II Peter 3:6)
http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm
..........
None of which is scientific evidence for a global flood.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2990 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
(55) There is a worldwide occurrence of deep alluvial deposits and sedimentary rocks consistent with a huge global flood.
Wrong. If you wish to debate this, please give a reference to a refereed journal.
(57) Nowhere in the world is it possible to see the complete geologic column as a single structure. It is always found in bits and pieces, and mostly with pieces missing. Globally, a worldwide flood could create the illusion of a geologic column.
False. A global flood would predict that denser species would be found at the bottom of the column. This is not what is actually seen.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2991 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
(71) The whole earth was seen by God as corrupt.(Gen 6:11-12)
(72) God decided to destroy the whole earth.(Gen 6:13)
(73) Everything that had breath was to die.(Gen 6:17)
(74) The purpose of the ark was to keep two of every breathing animal (ie. worldwide species) alive.(Gen 6:19)
(75) Two of every kind of animal and bird came to Noah, not just local fauna.(Gen 6:20)
(76) Noah had to collect samples of all food eaten, not just local foodstuffs.(Gen 6:21)
None of which is scientific evidence of a global flood.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2992 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
(77) God wanted the ark "to keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth".(Gen 7:3)
(78) God promised to destroy every living thing on the earth.(Gen 7:4)
(79) The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood, so it must have been different to all other floods.(Gen 7:10)
(80) All the "fountains of the great deep" broke up in one incident.(Gen 7:11)
(81) The "fountains of the great deep" would not have affected a simple, local land-based flood.(Gen 7:11)
(82) The opening of the windows of heaven (if this refers to "the waters above the firmament") would had a global impact.(Gen 7:11)
(83) The double superlative, "all the high mountains under all the heavens" ["all the high hills under the whole heaven" - NKJ], indicates a global covering.(Gen 7:19)
(84) The highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits (6.75m) of water.(Gen 7:20)
(85) The Hebrew word, "kasah", used to mean that the mountains were covered has a meaning of "overwhelming".(Gen 7:20)
(86) Every human died on the whole earth.(Gen 7:21)
(87) All living things on dry land, with "nephesh" life in them, died.(Gen 7:22)
(88) Every living thing on the earth was destroyed.(Gen 7:23)
(89) The floodwater remained at maximum height for 5 months.(Gen 7:24)
(90) The "fountains of the deep" were open for 5 months.(Gen 8:2)
http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm
None of which is scientific evidence of a global flood.

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