“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#2952 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are several problems with this. The first is the question of which reference frame you want to use. The distance will be different for different frames. Alternatively, you can ask about the spacetime separation, but that runs into issues because the Schwarzschild radius is a *time* coordinate inside the black-hole and the 'time' coordinate is spatial.
There are two views , contradictory but both the truth.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2953 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>I prefer scientific evidence to supernatural myths. The evidence in favor of the Big Bang and evolution is incredibly strong if you actually use the scientific theories as oppose to popular science treatments. Abiogenesis is much less demonstrable at this time, but the majority of the evidence still supports it.In no way is supernatural intervention required for any of this.
No you ignore evidence for one and buy into the other hook line and sinker.

Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2954 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>And you refuse to address the actual question.
The actual question as you put it is where did time come from. Your answer, time always existed because nothing existed with out time and time started existing 13.7 billion years ago there was no before that.

Got it, done that.

Nice blinders by the way.

Science and you believe time came into existence unaided, all on IT'S own even though IT did not exist.

Your science is weird by the way.
You've shown nothing that would make this statement untrue.

The Big Bang - when nothing exploded and created everything.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2955 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
The actual question as you put it is where did time come from. Your answer, time always existed
Here,'always' is used in the limited sense of 'whenever there was time'. So, yes, whenever there was time, there was time, so time 'always' existed.
because nothing existed with out time and time started existing 13.7 billion years ago there was no before that.
Yes.
Got it, done that.
Nice blinders by the way.
Care to point them out?
Science and you believe time came into existence unaided, all on IT'S own even though IT did not exist.
No, time did NOT 'come into existence on its own'. There is no 'coming into existence' without time. It exists. It started. It did not 'come into existence'.
Your science is weird by the way.
You've shown nothing that would make this statement untrue.
yes, the universe is a weird place. I won't dispute that. As Einstein said, not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it may well be stranger than we *can* imagine.
The Big Bang - when nothing exploded and created everything.
Wrong. As I have pointed out many times. When will you stop lying?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#2956 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
No you ignore evidence for one and buy into the other hook line and sinker.
Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.
Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck.
Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2957 Jun 24, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>Its so awesome fundies like you finally admit defeat.
What?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2958 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Here,'always' is used in the limited sense of 'whenever there was time'. So, yes, whenever there was time, there was time, so time 'always' existed.

[QUOTE] because nothing existed with out time and time started existing 13.7 billion years ago there was no before that."

Yes.

[QUOTE]Got it, done that.
Nice blinders by the way."

Care to point them out?

[QUOTE]Science and you believe time came into existence unaided, all on IT'S own even though IT did not exist."

No, time did NOT 'come into existence on its own'. There is no 'coming into existence' without time. It exists. It started. It did not 'come into existence'.

[QUOTE]Your science is weird by the way.
You've shown nothing that would make this statement untrue."

yes, the universe is a weird place. I won't dispute that. As Einstein said, not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it may well be stranger than we *can* imagine.

[QUOTE]The Big Bang - when nothing exploded and created everything.
"

Wrong. As I have pointed out many times. When will you stop lying?
"Here,'always' is used in the limited sense of 'whenever there was time'. So, yes, whenever there was time, there was time, so time 'always' existed."

Except there was no time when there was just a singularity. So time clearly did not always exist!

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2959 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-b...

"Long before the discovery of the scablands, geologists dismissed the role of catastrophic floods in interpreting European geology. By the end of the 19th century such ideas not only were out of fashion but were geological heresy. When J Harlen Bretz uncovered evidence of giant floods in eastern Washington in the 1920s, it took most of the 20th century for other geologists to believe him. Geologists had so thoroughly vilified the concept of great floods that they could not believe it when somebody actually found evidence of one.
Bretz was a classic field geologist and a controversial figure throughout his career. In 1925 he presented the story of the region’s giant floods, seeing what others at first could not—and then would not—see. He spent his lifetime piecing together the story of how a raging wall of water hundreds of feet high roared across eastern Washington, carving deep channels before cascading down the Columbia River Gorge as a wall of water high enough to turn Oregon’s Willamette Valley into a vast backwater lake.

Bretz found exotic granite boulders perched on basalt cliffs hundreds of feet above the highest recorded river level. In the scablands, a desolate region stripped of soil, he came across dry waterfalls and potholes hundreds of feet above the modern river. Gigantic gravel bars deposited within dry valleys implied deep, fast-flowing water. Streamlined hills rose like islands, extending more than 100 feet above the scoured-out channelways.

He realized the chaotic landscape had been carved by an enormous flood that chewed deep channels through hundreds of feet of solid basalt. The ancient flood deposited an enormous delta around Portland, Oregon, backing up flow into the Willamette Valley. The waters, he eventually realized, could have come from catastrophic drainage of Lake Missoula, an ancient, glacier-dammed lake in western Montana.

Bretz was ridiculed until 1940, when geologist Joe Pardee described giant ripple marks on the bed of Lake Missoula. The 50-foot-high ripples, he said, were formed by fast-flowing currents and not by the sluggish bottom water of a lake. Only sudden failure of the glacial dam could have released the 2,000-foot-deep lake. The catastrophic release of 600 cubic miles of water through a narrow gap would sweep away everything in its path. In 1979, when Bretz was 97 years old, the Geological Society of America awarded him its highest honor, the Penrose Medal."

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2960 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"

A fossilized human skull was found in coal that was sold in Germany (mid-1800s). A jawbone of a child was found in coal in Tuscany (1958). Two giant human molars were found in Montana (1926). A human leg was found by a West Virginia coal miner. It had changed into coal.�pp. 34-35.

A woman, in Illinois, reportedly found a gold chain in a chunk of coal which broke open (1891). A small steel cube was found in a block of coal in Austria (1885). An iron pot was found in coal in Oklahoma (1912). A woman found a child's spoon in coal (1937).�p. 35.

In 1944 Newton Anderson claimed to have found this bell inside a lump of coal that was mined near his house in West Virginia. When Newton dropped the lump it broke, revealing a bell encased inside.

What is a brass bell with an iron clapper doing in coal that is supposed to be hundreds of

millions of years old? According to Norm Scharbough's book Ammunition (which includes a compilation of many such "coal anecdotes") the bell was extensively analyzed at the University of Oklahoma and it was found to contain an unusual mixture of metals, different from any modern usage. Photo and text from Genesis Park.

Man-made objects in rock.

An iron nail was found in a Cretaceous block from the Mesozoic era (mid-1800s). A gold thread was found in stone in England (1844). An iron nail was found in quartz in California (1851). A silver vessel was found in solid rock in Massachusetts (1851).

The mold of a metal screw was found in a chunk of feldspar (1851). An intricately carved and inlaid metal bowl was found in solid rock (1852). An iron nail was found in rock in a Peruvian mine by Spanish conquistadores (1572).�pp. 35-36.

http://s8int.com/page8.html

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2961 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"

"A remarkable fossil find has been found in Peru: 346 whales buried in diatomaceous earth. The preservation of the whales is so pristine and complete, the authors of the paper in the Feb. 2004 issue of Geology1 conclude that the whales had to be buried rapidly, in days or weeks. If so, it represents a rate of accumulation of diatoms many times higher than what occurs in modern oceans.
The authors point out some amazing things about this fossil deposit:
Condition: The whale skeletons are “preserved in pristine condition (bones articulated [i.e., still assembled] or at least closely associated), in some cases including preserved baleen.”
Fine details:“The most complete whale (WCBa 20) was fully articulated; the microscopic detail of its baleen was preserved … and there is black, heavy-mineral replacement of the spinal cord and some intervertebral disks. There were no similar minerals in the surrounding sediment. These nonbony tissues were still present when the whale was completely buried.” Other instances of baleen, the delicate straining structure of the whale’s mouth, were also found.
Vertical extent:“The 346 whales within ~1.5 km2 of surveyed surface were not buried as an event, but were distributed uninterrupted through an 80-m-thick sedimentary section.” Since they were found uniformly distributed from bottom to top of the formation, the conditions in which they were buried must have also been uniform.
Unlaminated strata:“The diatomaceous sediment lacks repeating primary laminations, but instead is mostly massive, with irregular laminations and speckles.” In other words, it was not due to a cyclic process, like the annual climate change that produces tree rings.
Lack of bioturbation: Small organisms have not altered the deposit.“There is no evidence for bioturbation by invertebrates in the whale-bearing sediment.” Apparently they didn’t have the chance, it happened so fast.
Intact diatoms:“If most diatoms dissolve before preservation in the sediment, one would find frustules in all stages of dissolution. Diatoms in the Pisco diatomaceous sediment are often broken, but SEMstudy indicated fine preservation, with no significant evidence of dissolution.… In the shallow-water Pisco Formation, the diatoms were probably buried too quickly for much dissolution to occur.” The authors point out that in contemporary diatom deposits, only 2–3% of the frustules (glass shells) usually remain undissolved, up to 24% in special cases in Antarctica."
http://crev.info/2004/02/hundreds_of_whales_b...

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2962 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"

"‘We knew it was a great find,’ said paleontologist Leonard Brand about the fossil whales he saw in Peru in 1999, 350 km (200 miles) south of Lima, the capital. Eagerly he organized a team of creationist research scientists. They recently published their findings in the secular journal Geology.1,2,3
Overall, they found 346 whales within a 1.5-km2 (370-acre) area, buried in an 80-m (260-ft) thick layer of sedimentary rock called diatomite. This layer is part of the Pisco Formation, which varies in thickness from 200–1,000 m (650–3,300 ft).

Diatomite is sedimentary rock containing a high percentage of fossil diatoms—small single-celled algae, which commonly live near the ocean surface. The layer of diatomite in Peru has 5 to 10% clay and abundant volcanic ash.

Today, when diatoms die, their silica skeletons accumulate on the ocean floor. One gram (0.035 oz.) of diatomite may contain up to 400 million skeletons.4 Diatomite sediment normally accumulates slowly—only a few centimetres per thousand years.1Even where the rate is higher, such as in some shallow-water areas, accumulation is still slow. For example, in the fjords of British Columbia, diatoms and clay accumulate at 2.5–5.0 mm (0.1–0.2 inches) per year.2

Also today, when a whale carcass sinks to the bottom of the ocean, many kinds of scavengers quickly attack and colonize it. And in their quest for food, some scavengers churn up the adjacent sediments.5

However, in Peru, the fossilized whales and diatoms were well preserved and the whale skeletons were mostly intact. There was no evidence of normal decay, such as wormholes, barnacle encrustations or general degradation. Neither was there any sign that organisms had churned up the adjacent sediment."

http://creation.mo bi/dead-whales-telling-tales

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2963 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"

http://www.grandcanyontreks.org/geology2.htm

"Inevitably, some of these visitors will turn to a park ranger and ask: "How did the Grand Canyon get formed? Why did this happen here and nowhere else?"

The honest answer is that nobody knows. One hundred and thirty-one years after John Wesley Powell first mapped the Colorado River by riding its 161 rapids in heavy wooden boats, no one can prove how the canyon was formed.

But it is not for lack of trying.

Geologists are puzzle freaks who love nothing more than collecting fragmentary clues -- clumps of gravel, fossilized shells and pollens, the dates that muddy sediments were deposited in dried-up lakes or whole mountain ranges were lifted -- and then trying desperately to figure out how the modern topography before their eyes was produced.

More.....

The modern Colorado appears to be a young river that flows out of the Rockies and hits a huge plateau, called the Kaibab Upwarp, which is 50 million to 70 million years old. Instead of being shunted away from this barrier, the river runs right through it. Moreover, when sediments from the river are examined closely, it is clear that the western end of the canyon -- where it flattens out and begins its final run to the Gulf of California -- is many millions of years younger than the eastern part of the river.

To many experts, this difference means that the Grand Canyon could have been cobbled together from ancient river basins that were created during different geologic eras. But if so, when and how were those ancient rivers formed and where did they go?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2964 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"

Here's a list of a few places that have their own version of a world wide flood.

Europe
Greek, Arcadian, Samothrace
Roman
Scandinavian, German
Celtic, Welsh
Lithuanian, Transylvanian Gypsy
Turkey
Near East
Sumerian
Egypt, Babylonian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Hebrew, Islamic
Persian, Zoroastrian
Africa
Cameroon
Masai (East Africa), Komililo Nandi, Kwaya (Lake Victoria)
Southwest Tanzania, Pygmy, Ababua (northern Zaire), Kikuyu (Kenya), Bakongo (west Zaire), Bachokwe?(southern Zaire), Lower Congo, Basonge, Bena-Lulua (Congo River, southeast Zaire)
Yoruba (southwest Nigeria), Efik-Ibibio (Nigeria), Ekoi (Nigeria)
Mandingo (Ivory Coast)
Asia
Vogul
Samoyed (north Siberia)
Yenisey-Ostyak (north central Siberia), Kamchadale (northeast Siberia)
Altaic (central Asia), Tuvinian (Soyot)(north of Mongolia)
Mongolia, Buryat (eastern Siberia)
Sagaiye (eastern Siberia)
Russian
Hindu, Bhil (central India), Kamar (Raipur District, Central India), Assam
Tamil (southern India)
Lepcha (Sikkim), Tibet, Singpho (Assam), Lushai (Assam), Lisu (northwest Yunnan, China), Lolo (southwestern China), Jino (southern Yunnan, China), Karen (Burma), Chingpaw (Upper Burma)
China
Korea
Munda (north-central India), Santal (Bengal), Ho (southwestern Bengal)
Bahnar (Cochin China), Kammu (northern Thailand)
Andaman Islands (Bay of Bengal)
Zhuang (China), Sui (southern Guizhou, China), Shan (Burma)
Tsuwo (Formosa interior), Bunun (Formosa interior), Ami (eastern Taiwan)
Benua-Jakun (Malay Peninsula), Kelantan (Malay Peninsula), Ifugao (Philippines), Kiangan Ifugao, Atá(Philippines), Mandaya (Philippines), Tinguian (Luzon, Philippines)
Batak (Sumatra), Nias (an island west of Sumatra), Engano (another island west of Sumatra), Dusun (British North Borneo), Dyak (Borneo), Ot-Danom (Dutch Borneo), Toradja (central Celebes), Alfoor (between Celebes and New Guinea), Rotti (southwest of Timor), Nage (Flores)
Australia
Arnhem Land (northern Northern Territory)
Maung (Goulburn Islands, Arnhem Land), Gunwinggu (northern Arnhem Land)

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2965 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
More........

Gumaidj (Arnhem Land)
Manger (Arnhem Land)
Fitzroy River area (Western Australia)
Australian, Mount Elliot (coastal Queensland), Western Australia, Andingari (South Australia), Wiranggu (South Australia), Narrinyeri (South Australia), Victoria, Lake Tyres (Victoria), Kurnai (Gippsland, Victoria), southeast Australian
Maori (New Zealand)
Pacific Islands
Kabadi (New Guinea), Valman (northern New Guinea), Mamberao River (Irian Jaya), Samo-Kubo (western Papua New Guinea), Papua New Guinea
Palau Islands (Micronesia), western Carolines
New Hebrides, Lifou (one of the Loyalty Islands), Fiji
Samoa, Nanumanga (Tuvalu, South Pacific), Mangaia (Cook Islands), Rakaanga (Cook Islands), Raiatea (Leeward Group, French Polynesia), Tahiti, Hawaii

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2966 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
More......

North America
Innuit, Eskimo (Orowignarak, Alaska), Norton Sound Eskimo, Central Eskimo, Tchiglit Eskimo (Arctic Ocean), Herschel Island Eskimo, Netsilik Eskimo, Greenlander
Tlingit (southern Alaska coast), Hareskin (Alaska), Tinneh (Alaska and south), Loucheux (Dindjie)(Alaska), Dogrib and Slave (Tinneh tribes), Kaska (northern inland British Columbia), Thompson Indians (British Columbia), Sarcee (Alberta), Tsetsaut
Haida (Queen Charlotte Is., British Columbia), Tsimshian (British Columbia)
Kwakiutl (British Columbia)
Kootenay (southeast British Columbia), Squamish (British Columbia), Bella Coola (British Columbia), Lillooet (Green River, British Columbia), Makah (Cape Flattery, Washington), Klallam (northwest Washington), Skokomish (Washington), Skagit (Washington), Quillayute (Washington), Nisqually (Washington), Twana (Puget Sound, Washington), Kathlamet
Cascade Mountains
Spokana, Nez Perce, Cayuse (eastern Washington), Yakima (Washington), Warm Springs (Oregon), Joshua (southern Oregon), Smith River (northern California coast), Wintu (north central California), Maidu (central California), Northern Miwok (central California), Tuleyome Miwok (near Clear Lake, California), Olamentko Miwok (Bodega Bay, California) Ohlone (San Francisco to Monterey, California)
Kato (Mendocino County, California)
Shasta (northern California interior), Pomo (north central California), Salinan (California), Yuma (western Arizona, southern California), Havasupai (lower Colorado River)
Ashochimi (California)
Yurok (north California coast), Blackfoot (Alberta and Montana), Cree (Canada), Timagami Ojibway (Canada), Chippewa (Ontario, Minnesota, Wisconsin), Ottawa, Menomini (Wisconsin-Michigan border), Cheyenne (Minnesota), Yellowstone, Montagnais (northern Gulf of St. Lawrence), Micmac (eastern Maritime Canada), Algonquin (upper Ottowa River), Lenape (Delaware)(Delaware to New York)
Cherokee (Great Lakes area; eastern Tennessee)
Mandan (North Dakota), Lakota
Choctaw (Mississippi), Natchez (Lower Mississippi)
North America
Innuit, Eskimo (Orowignarak, Alaska), Norton Sound Eskimo, Central Eskimo, Tchiglit Eskimo (Arctic Ocean), Herschel Island Eskimo, Netsilik Eskimo, Greenlander
Tlingit (southern Alaska coast), Hareskin (Alaska), Tinneh (Alaska and south), Loucheux (Dindjie)(Alaska), Dogrib and Slave (Tinneh tribes), Kaska (northern inland British Columbia), Thompson Indians (British Columbia), Sarcee (Alberta), Tsetsaut
Haida (Queen Charlotte Is., British Columbia), Tsimshian (British Columbia)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#2967 Jun 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"None of the evidence supports such a flood"
Correct.

Good of you to finally ADMIT that fact.

This is progress!

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2968 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
More......

Kwakiutl (British Columbia)
Kootenay (southeast British Columbia), Squamish (British Columbia), Bella Coola (British Columbia), Lillooet (Green River, British Columbia), Makah (Cape Flattery, Washington), Klallam (northwest Washington), Skokomish (Washington), Skagit (Washington), Quillayute (Washington), Nisqually (Washington), Twana (Puget Sound, Washington), Kathlamet
Cascade Mountains
Spokana, Nez Perce, Cayuse (eastern Washington), Yakima (Washington), Warm Springs (Oregon), Joshua (southern Oregon), Smith River (northern California coast), Wintu (north central California), Maidu (central California), Northern Miwok (central California), Tuleyome Miwok (near Clear Lake, California), Olamentko Miwok (Bodega Bay, California) Ohlone (San Francisco to Monterey, California)
Kato (Mendocino County, California)
Shasta (northern California interior), Pomo (north central California), Salinan (California), Yuma (western Arizona, southern California), Havasupai (lower Colorado River)
Ashochimi (California)
Yurok (north California coast), Blackfoot (Alberta and Montana), Cree (Canada), Timagami Ojibway (Canada), Chippewa (Ontario, Minnesota, Wisconsin), Ottawa, Menomini (Wisconsin-Michigan border), Cheyenne (Minnesota), Yellowstone, Montagnais (northern Gulf of St. Lawrence), Micmac (eastern Maritime Canada), Algonquin (upper Ottowa River), Lenape (Delaware)(Delaware to New York)
Cherokee (Great Lakes area; eastern Tennessee)
Mandan (North Dakota), Lakota
Choctaw (Mississippi), Natchez (Lower Mississippi)
Chitimacha (Southern Louisiana)
Caddo (Oklahoma, Arkansas), Pawnee (Nebraska)
Navajo (Four Corners area), Jicarilla Apache (northeastern New Mexico)
Sia (northeast Arizona)
Acagchemem (near San Juan Capistrano, California), Luiseño (Southern California), Pima (southwest Arizona), Papago (Arizona), Hopi (northeast Arizona), Zuni (New Mexico)
Central America
Tarascan (northern Michoacan, Mexico), Michoacan (Mexico)
Yaqui (Sonoran, Northern Mexico), Tarahumara (Northern Mexico), Huichol (western Mexico), Cora (east of the Huichols), Tepecano (southeast of the Huichols), Tepehua (eastern Mexico), Toltec (Mexico), Nahua (central Mexico), Tlaxcalan (central Mexico)

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2969 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
More.......

Tlapanec (south central Mexico), Mixtec (northern Oaxaca, Mexico), Zapotec (Oaxaca, southern Mexico), Trique (Oaxaca, southern Mexico)
Totonac (eastern Mexico)
Chol (southern Mexico), Tzeltal (Chiapas, southern Mexico), Quiché(Guatemala), Maya (southern Mexico and Guatemala)
Popoluca (Veracruz, Mexico)
Nicaragua, Panama
Carib (Antilles)
South America
Acawai (Orinoco), Arekuna (Guyana), Makiritare (Venezuela), Macusi (British Guyana)
Muysca (Colombia), Yaruro (southern Venezuela)
Yanomamö(southern Venezuela)
Tamanaque (Orinoco), Arawak (Guyana), Pamary, Abedery, and Kataushy (Purus R., Brazil), Ipurina (Upper Amazon)
Jivaro (eastern Ecuador), Shuar (Andes)
Murato (eastern Ecuador)
Cañari (Quito, Ecuador)
Guanca and Chiquito (Peru)
Ancasmarca (near Cuzco, Peru), Canelos Quechua, Quechua, Inca (Peru), Colla (high Andes)
Chiriguano (southeast Bolivia)
Chorote (Eastern Paraguay)
Eastern Brazil (Rio de Janiero region), Eastern Brazil (Cape Frio region), Caraya (Araguaia River, central Brazil), Coroado (south Brazil)
Araucania (coastal Chile)
Toba (northern Argentina)
Selk'nam (southern tip of Argentina)
Yamana (Tierra del Fuego)
), Pima (southwest Arizona), Papago (Arizona), Hopi (northeast Arizona), Zuni (New Mexico)
Central America
Tarascan (northern Michoacan, Mexico), Michoacan (Mexico)
Yaqui (Sonoran, Northern Mexico), Tarahumara (Northern Mexico), Huichol (western Mexico), Cora (east of the Huichols), Tepecano (southeast of the Huichols), Tepehua (eastern Mexico), Toltec (Mexico), Nahua (central Mexico), Tlaxcalan (central Mexico)
Tlapanec (south central Mexico), Mixtec (northern Oaxaca, Mexico), Zapotec (Oaxaca, southern Mexico), Trique (Oaxaca, southern Mexico)
Totonac (eastern Mexico)
Chol (southern Mexico), Tzeltal (Chiapas, southern Mexico), Quiché(Guatemala), Maya (southern Mexico and Guatemala)
Popoluca (Veracruz, Mexico)
Nicaragua, Panama
Carib (Antilles)
South America
Acawai (Orinoco), Arekuna (Guyana), Makiritare (Venezuela), Macusi (British Guyana)
Muysca (Colombia), Yaruro (southern Venezuela)
Yanomamö(southern Venezuela)
Tamanaque (Orinoco), Arawak (Guyana), Pamary, Abedery, and Kataushy (Purus R., Brazil), Ipurina (Upper Amazon)
Jivaro (eastern Ecuador), Shuar (Andes)
Murato (eastern Ecuador)
Cañari (Quito, Ecuador)
Guanca and Chiquito (Peru)
Ancasmarca (near Cuzco, Peru), Canelos Quechua, Quechua, Inca (Peru), Colla (high Andes)
Chiriguano (southeast Bolivia)
Chorote (Eastern Paraguay)
Eastern Brazil (Rio de Janiero region), Eastern Brazil (Cape Frio region), Caraya (Araguaia River, central Brazil), Coroado (south Brazil)
Araucania (coastal Chile)
Toba (northern Argentina)
Selk'nam (southern tip of Argentina)
Yamana (Tierra del Fuego)

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2970 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood. "

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-b...

"Long before the discovery of the scablands, geologists dismissed the role of catastrophic floods in interpreting European geology. By the end of the 19th century such ideas not only were out of fashion but were geological heresy. When J Harlen Bretz uncovered evidence of giant floods in eastern Washington in the 1920s, it took most of the 20th century for other geologists to believe him. Geologists had so thoroughly vilified the concept of great floods that they could not believe it when somebody actually found evidence of one.
Bretz was a classic field geologist and a controversial figure throughout his career. In 1925 he presented the story of the region’s giant floods, seeing what others at first could not—and then would not—see. He spent his lifetime piecing together the story of how a raging wall of water hundreds of feet high roared across eastern Washington, carving deep channels before cascading down the Columbia River Gorge as a wall of water high enough to turn Oregon’s Willamette Valley into a vast backwater lake.

Bretz found exotic granite boulders perched on basalt cliffs hundreds of feet above the highest recorded river level. In the scablands, a desolate region stripped of soil, he came across dry waterfalls and potholes hundreds of feet above the modern river. Gigantic gravel bars deposited within dry valleys implied deep, fast-flowing water. Streamlined hills rose like islands, extending more than 100 feet above the scoured-out channelways.

He realized the chaotic landscape had been carved by an enormous flood that chewed deep channels through hundreds of feet of solid basalt. The ancient flood deposited an enormous delta around Portland, Oregon, backing up flow into the Willamette Valley. The waters, he eventually realized, could have come from catastrophic drainage of Lake Missoula, an ancient, glacier-dammed lake in western Montana.

Bretz was ridiculed until 1940, when geologist Joe Pardee described giant ripple marks on the bed of Lake Missoula. The 50-foot-high ripples, he said, were formed by fast-flowing currents and not by the sluggish bottom water of a lake. Only sudden failure of the glacial dam could have released the 2,000-foot-deep lake. The catastrophic release of 600 cubic miles of water through a narrow gap would sweep away everything in its path. In 1979, when Bretz was 97 years old, the Geological Society of America awarded him its highest honor, the Penrose Medal."

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2971 Jun 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I have looked at the evidence for a deity and find it completely unconvincing. First cause, fine tuning, etc. ALL are logically void.

[QUOTE]Only one way to get that hook out and that's to gut you. And we ain't doing that. So good luck. "

Hey, you are the one that believes in the great flood of Noah. None of the evidence supports such a flood. ALL of the available evidence shows an earth and universe billions of years old and not simply thousands. And then you attempt to lecture us on science? Really?
"None of the evidence supports such a flood."


Evidence for a Global Flood

by Laurence D Smart B.Sc.Agr., Dip.Ed., Grad.Dip.Ed

Email: laurence@unmaskingevolution.co m

Webpage: www.unmaskingevolution.com

[Free to print and distribute. Copy must be in full.]

In the past, scientists largely dismissed Noah's flood as a myth, or a local flood, as it was believed that there could not have been enough rainwater to cover the world as high as Mount Everest. Recent discoveries in plate tectonics and crustal physics have shown that a much flatter Earth could have easily been flooded, with the resultant volcanic and geologic activity altering the land surface. These details have demolished the main argument against a global flood, but the tag of "local flood" has remained because atheists do not want any evidence that supports the existence of an Almighty, Creator/God.



Here are over 100 evidences in support of a global flood, rather than a local one.

FROM LOGIC.........[12 reasons]

(1) For rain to fall for forty uninterrupted days on one localized area is currently close to impossible.

(2) A rainbow appeared for the first time after the flood, indicating a radical change in atmospheric conditions as a consequence of a cataclysmic event.

(3) The waters remained for over a year. This would not occur in a local flood.

(4) To be higher than the highest mountains, the flood could not have been local.

(5) To cover the mountains continually for 9 months, the flood could not have been local.

(6) The purpose of the flood was to destroy all human beings. This could only refer to a worldwide flood.

(7) If the flood was local, people living elsewhere in the world would have escaped.

(8) The enormous size of the ark (equivalent to the capacity of 500 railroad freight carriages) would hold much more than local species of animals.

(9) The purpose of the ark to "keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth" is only rational if the flood was global.

(10) Noah and his family could have migrated to a locality away from the local area to be flooded. There would have been no need to spend 120 years building an ark.

(11) Many of the animals in the flooding area could have easily migrated to escape the deluge if the flood was local. There would have been no need to build an ark to provide them with a safe haven.

(12) If God made a promise based on a lie (ie. that the flood being local rather than global), then he can't be trusted to save us from our sins.

http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

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