Atheist Islamophobia... Again

Apr 9, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Religion Dispatched

Sparked by a Richard Dawkins tweet , in which he drew a parallel between Islamists and Nazis, Nathan Lean recently suggested on Salon.com that the most famous representatives of the new atheism "flirt with" Islamophobia [echoing Chris Stedman's prescient warning to fellow atheists on RD this past August]. As the article explains, Dawkins, Hitchens ... (more)

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Since: Apr 13

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#489
Apr 19, 2013
 
madscot wrote:
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The problem here is that the LTTE were pretty much the inventors of suicide bombing. That would be one reason why they would have more suicide bombings than other orginizations. The LTTE is known to have worked with muslim terrorists groups worldwide including Al Qaeda, Harkut ul Mujahideen and Abu Sayaff Group. So claiming that the LTTE is responsible for more suicide bombings doesn't do much to diminish muslim terrorist attacks.
I agree, but what I'm trying to clarify is the fact that Islam doesn't teach Suicide bombing. I don't know why people are claiming Islam teaches this, when if they look deeper they would find that it doesn't. I guess it's because they care more about spreading propaganda, they actually having a real discussion. Ignorance is not bliss.

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#490
Apr 19, 2013
 
EASY MONEY wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, well, Once again we are seeing the cult of peace and love and how it has shown the world just what worthless garbage they are. Muslims, islam, the killers of people that probably don't even know where the country was where they were from. There's an old Thai saying of"when walking down a jungle path and you see a cobra and a muslim, kill the muslim first". No habibi you can't divert the terrorism in the islamic world to the Tigers. Your cult is the most rabid in the world today. You all love the sight of blood so much that you even kill each other over the interpretation of that book you so love.
Your post is full of ignorance and hate and I don't talk to such people.
Thinking

Staines, UK

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#491
Apr 19, 2013
 
That still doesn't parse.
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
You made this up :-)
but is a funny generalization regarding
a planet with 7 billion people.
As the old adage goes "Scratch and atheist and out pops a agnostic"

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

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#492
Apr 19, 2013
 

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peace n shaax123 wrote:
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FIRST of all, that's not my words. They are the words of the worlds leading expert on suicide bombers.
Second, If you watch the documentary I posted, you'll learn how the act of "suicide bombing" came into Islam. Also, the expert in the video is not a Muslim. So he has no reason to be bias.
Haven't studied much logic, have you? An appeal to authority is a logical fallacy in which the writer claims an assertion is true because an "expert" says so without supplying any further logic. It is typically used either by a shallow intellect or by more sophisticated one one that believes that readers are stupid enough to buy into the tactic, i.e., by a fool or by a deceiver. Which are you?

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#493
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
Debating and discussing almost the samething, both can be a learning experience or a talk with a brick wall. But in a debat you have people watching and you can educate them or bored with them as well.
"you have people watching and you can educate them or bored with them as well." You can do the same thing in a discussion. In a debate, both sides are trying to win and make it harder for them to come to an agreement. It's rare that you will change the mind or believes of your opponent.
I think that discussions are more successful in understanding your opponent and coming to a conclusion.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#494
Apr 19, 2013
 
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
"you have people watching and you can educate them or bored with them as well." You can do the same thing in a discussion. In a debate, both sides are trying to win and make it harder for them to come to an agreement. It's rare that you will change the mind or believes of your opponent.
I think that discussions are more successful in understanding your opponent and coming to a conclusion.
how is a discussion and a debate different?

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#495
Apr 19, 2013
 
NightSerf wrote:
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Haven't studied much logic, have you? An appeal to authority is a logical fallacy in which the writer claims an assertion is true because an "expert" says so without supplying any further logic. It is typically used either by a shallow intellect or by more sophisticated one one that believes that readers are stupid enough to buy into the tactic, i.e., by a fool or by a deceiver. Which are you?
First of all, you guys ask for evidence all the time.
And when I do supply "more logic" I am told that I am making things up. I don't know what you want.
If you were in my shoes, you would understand that I am only able to use authority because when I use logic and reason, people dismiss at as cult mumbo jumbo. Do you get it now?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#496
Apr 19, 2013
 
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post is full of ignorance and hate and I don't talk to such people.
Of course not-- because you are both ignorant and full-of-hate.

QED.

“It's just a box of rain...”

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#497
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep: Switzerland, Sweden, in fact most of the Netherlands...
... and Great Briton is rapidly becoming an atheist country too.
Then there is Canada, who's religiosity is shrinking at a high rate.
One of the common threads of the ones I mentioned? Is basic health care is free for anyone.
I wonder if that is a link?
In that in countries WITHOUT basic health care, you also see STRONG religious influence.
Hmmmmm....
... as is religion in the U.S., according to the relatively new WIN-Gallup report,

http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...

They document a 13% drop in religiosity from 2005 to 2012 from 73% to 60%, that being defined by the number of people who say that they are religious people. They also show a 4% increase of avowed atheists from 1% to 5% over the same period. The total breakdown in the study for the U.S. is 60% religious, 30% nonreligious (but not atheists), 5% atheist, and 5% nonresponsive. Mind you, it's likely that about half of that 30% retains a half-hearted belief in God, but religion is just not a part of the way they live their lives. There's no way of knowing what the breakdown if the nonresponders is, but it is clear that religion continues to plummet as a factor in the American landscape.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#498
Apr 19, 2013
 

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peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, you guys ask for evidence all the time.
And when I do supply "more logic" I am told that I am making things up. I don't know what you want.
If you were in my shoes, you would understand that I am only able to use authority because when I use logic and reason, people dismiss at as cult mumbo jumbo. Do you get it now?
no, when you use cult mumbo jumbo, you get called out for using cult mumbo jumbo.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#499
Apr 19, 2013
 

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peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, you guys ask for evidence all the time.
And when I do supply "more logic" I am told that I am making things up. I don't know what you want.
If you were in my shoes, you would understand that I am only able to use authority because when I use logic and reason, people dismiss at as cult mumbo jumbo. Do you get it now?
Would you call someone logical if they swore Superman was real and would save you if you jumped off a building?

“It's just a box of rain...”

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#500
Apr 19, 2013
 

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peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, you guys ask for evidence all the time.
And when I do supply "more logic" I am told that I am making things up. I don't know what you want.
If you were in my shoes, you would understand that I am only able to use authority because when I use logic and reason, people dismiss at as cult mumbo jumbo. Do you get it now?
I suspect that you believe what you say, but that indicates that you are unfamiliar with the principles of logic because you haven't been using any of late. The appeal to authority often leads to what is called "cherry-picking," which means seeking out only sources that support one's point of view. This forum has been rife with it over the few years that I've seen, mostly but not exclusively from the theistic apologists either seek us out in the atheist forum or write in the threads that are shared by several forums.

There are a number of excellent guides to logic on the internet, and I strongly recommend that you make use of some of them. Wikipedia is a very good starting point. Remember, though, that the best use of logic is as a tool for ferreting out the truth and that its use in debate is secondary. I don't think debate is all that worthwhile an activity at any rate. I prefer respectful discussions among presumed equals--not the stuff of Topix except as a undercurrent among subpopulations within each forum.

That undercurrent is what keeps me here. I write better than most, which gives me more credibility than I deserve, but I am not as well educated as the other first-rate writers in that subpopulation. Little by little, I learn from them. Anyone with an open mind--one that is ready to change when evidence and logic require it--can do the same, just as we can in life off of the net.

As one comic puts it, if your mind is too open, your brain will fall out. the best tool for preventing that is a healthy skepticism--a doorkeeper of sorts--that insists of verifying ideas independently as they come up instead of accepting them because they come from experts. Most people's skepticism awakens only for ideas that "don't seem right" or "are against common sense." But a true skeptic is ready to question anything and everything in the light of new information. Even the most basic assumptions are fair game.

Intellectual curiosity is like Bilbo's Road in The Lord of the Rings.ďItís a dangerous business going out of your door," he would tell Frodo. "You step into the Road, and if you donít keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.Ē I think, though, that our intellects should be like old Bilbo was at the end, even in his frailty: "quite ready for another adventure."

Don't you?

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#501
Apr 19, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you call someone logical if they swore Superman was real and would save you if you jumped off a building?
I am not talking about the exists of anything. Just that when some people compare Islam and Christianity or say some thing about Islam that is not true and I correct them, they say I'm making it up.
Like when I said Suicide is forbidden in Islam, people didn't believe me so I had to prove that suicide bombing didn't originate in Islam. It's just something some extremist groups use who happen to be "Muslim" because they are cowards and are to scared to fight.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#502
Apr 19, 2013
 

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peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not talking about the exists of anything. Just that when some people compare Islam and Christianity or say some thing about Islam that is not true and I correct them, they say I'm making it up.
Like when I said Suicide is forbidden in Islam, people didn't believe me so I had to prove that suicide bombing didn't originate in Islam. It's just something some extremist groups use who happen to be "Muslim" because they are cowards and are to scared to fight.
Suicide is forbidden by christians too, but that doesn't stop them either. Religion itself is nothing but a whacky delusion enforced by popular opinion, it's all crazy.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#503
Apr 19, 2013
 

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NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>... as is religion in the U.S., according to the relatively new WIN-Gallup report,
http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...
They document a 13% drop in religiosity from 2005 to 2012 from 73% to 60%, that being defined by the number of people who say that they are religious people. They also show a 4% increase of avowed atheists from 1% to 5% over the same period. The total breakdown in the study for the U.S. is 60% religious, 30% nonreligious (but not atheists), 5% atheist, and 5% nonresponsive. Mind you, it's likely that about half of that 30% retains a half-hearted belief in God, but religion is just not a part of the way they live their lives. There's no way of knowing what the breakdown if the nonresponders is, but it is clear that religion continues to plummet as a factor in the American landscape.
That is welcome news, of course.

And as many other free thinkers have commented, people who do not push their respective religion to the forefront, are not the problem anyway.

It's the fraction among the 60%, which the poll did not measure, who demand "respect" for their ludicrous religiosity and insist that their religious bigotry is enacted into law (anti-gay, etc)

I suspect the fraction of the 60% is somewhat less than half.

Then, if you look at the percentage of the US who do not vote?

A picture begins to emerge...

... about why we are in the current mess we are in.
Thinking

Staines, UK

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#504
Apr 19, 2013
 
Leaving islam is punishable by death, according to sharia.

islam must therefore be a very insecure faith.
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not talking about the exists of anything. Just that when some people compare Islam and Christianity or say some thing about Islam that is not true and I correct them, they say I'm making it up.
Like when I said Suicide is forbidden in Islam, people didn't believe me so I had to prove that suicide bombing didn't originate in Islam. It's just something some extremist groups use who happen to be "Muslim" because they are cowards and are to scared to fight.
Amused

Princeton, MA

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#505
Apr 19, 2013
 

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martinezjosei wrote:
<quoted text>
So Allah is a false god?
Yes or not?
Why?
Liberals love to deny God but defend Muslims, so I love when I ask them if Allah is a false god and see then going in a tail spin!!!
If you read any of this thread, your statement that "liberals love to deny god but defend muslims" suggests that you have a severe reading comprehension problem. You are way beyond mere dyslexia, and seem unable to process written language. Apart from the avowed muslims on this thread, there's been a fair bit of saying quite bad things about muslims by atheists. Indeed, the title of the thread, "Atheist islamophobia" is intended to convey that atheists think poorly of muslims.

Why don't you spend some time with the Dick and Jane books, and rejoin us when the written word poses less of a mystery to you.

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#507
Apr 19, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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Suicide is forbidden by christians too, but that doesn't stop them either. Religion itself is nothing but a whacky delusion enforced by popular opinion, it's all crazy.
Yeah, but the Christians that commit suicide aren't following the teaches of Christianity, so why would anyone say that Christianity teaches suicide? It doesn't make any sense.
Same thing with Islam.

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#508
Apr 19, 2013
 
"The appeal to authority often leads to what is called "cherry-picking," which means seeking out only sources that support one's point of view."

How am I cherry "picking," When I present you with the leading expert on Suicide? That's "cherry Picking?"
He has the worlds largest date base on suicide bombers, yet that's "cherry picking."

I pick the number one expert. Not the one I like. Not a Muslim on. But someone who is a leader in their field. Tell me how that is "cherry picking?"

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#509
Apr 19, 2013
 
" don't think debate is all that worthwhile an activity at any rate. I prefer respectful discussions among presumed equals--not the stuff of Topix except as a undercurrent among subpopulations within each forum."
Exactly my point.

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