Atheists and Islam: No God, not even Allah

Nov 24, 2012 Full story: www.economist.com 57

Ex-Muslim atheists are becoming more outspoken, but tolerance is still rare

In a handful of majority-Muslim countries atheists can live safely, if quietly; Turkey is one example, Lebanon another. None makes atheism a specific crime. But none gives atheists legal protection or recognition. Indonesia, for example, demands that people declare themselves as one of six religions; atheism and agnosticism do not count. Egypt’s draft constitution makes room for only three faiths: Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Full Story
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“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#1 Nov 25, 2012
I like to wait a bit to comment on the stories that I post as a forum editor. I want to read what others think before setting any agenda with my own. In this case, I'm surprised that no one jumped in ahead of me. I would think that the status and safety of atheists in the Muslim world would be a hot button issue.

It's true that Islamic governments don't often kill us. But they do reserve the right to and they don't protect us from the kind of mob actions that are all too common in these intemperate societies, nor do they tend to prosecute crimes motivated by hatred for atheists. Atheists in Muslim countries are sitting ducks, and those who were born to Muslim parents, as apostates, are not really safe anywhere in the world.

There are other issues, but I see this one as primal. Does anyone else?
Amused

Princeton, MA

#2 Nov 26, 2012
It is all part and parcel of islam's obsession with conformity, and willingness to use violence to compel conformity. In almost any muslim country, it is dangerous to be of a different faith, or no faith, to be of a different sexuality, for a woman to want to be educated, or to dress differently from the male-prescribed uniform, etc. It is frightening to see more and more of the world slip under the control of fanatics who are so insecure in their beliefs that they will not hesitate to kill those that don't agree with them, either through the state mechanism, or through mob violence.

It leaves those in western civilization wondering about where the borderline is between anti-muslim bigotry on the one hand and legitimate concern about the threat islam poses to human rights and freedom. On the one hand, there are 'moderate' muslims who may or may not support the extremists in their suppression of diversity of thought, but on the other hand, it certainly seems to be the case that the extremists are in charge, and that they represent a significant threat to human rights, along with a commitment to spreading their beliefs and the concomitant repression.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#3 Nov 28, 2012
NightSerf wrote:
I like to wait a bit to comment on the stories that I post as a forum editor. I want to read what others think before setting any agenda with my own. In this case, I'm surprised that no one jumped in ahead of me. I would think that the status and safety of atheists in the Muslim world would be a hot button issue.
It's true that Islamic governments don't often kill us. But they do reserve the right to and they don't protect us from the kind of mob actions that are all too common in these intemperate societies, nor do they tend to prosecute crimes motivated by hatred for atheists. Atheists in Muslim countries are sitting ducks, and those who were born to Muslim parents, as apostates, are not really safe anywhere in the world.
There are other issues, but I see this one as primal. Does anyone else?
This is why the bible says revelation 17

"And he says to me:“The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.16And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.17For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.18And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”

revelationd 18: 22And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again,23and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top‐ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled.24Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

The true God Yahweh(hebre) or jehovah(english) is going to have U.N destroy religion the bible refers to false religion as The harlot babylon the great

The wilde beast with 7 headsis the U.N, 7 means complete or whole.
hence why we have 7 days in a week, takes 7 days for a cold to pass etc.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#4 Nov 28, 2012
And yet the Christian societies of the past have been no less repressive when unfettered by modern, civilized laws. Oh, to live in a world where no one bothers to think about religion at all, not even to reject it.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#5 Nov 28, 2012
NightSerf wrote:
And yet the Christian societies of the past have been no less repressive when unfettered by modern, civilized laws. Oh, to live in a world where no one bothers to think about religion at all, not even to reject it.
They are true not Christians .
Christians are supposed to preach and tell ppl about Gods kingdom, the one in the lords prayer,

Religion is not suppose to be mingling with the governments ,

False religion has caused ppl to die, ppl even think God hates gays, when he does not.

Religion being destroyed, is actually a good thing to true Christians.because those are really his people will not be stopped from worshipping him

False religion gives ppl false hope, and when they realize they have been lied too,

Just imagine the global terror, the Bible says that her destruction that no one will want to share in her destruction.

The nations will see Gods ppl still serving him, but by this time they will thinking their is no God and will consider it a threat to security

Basically you see lots of propaganda in the media this will motivate them to unknowingly go against his ppl

And God will stop them .

During this time you will see who truly is wicked and who is not.

The Bible says ppl are going to turn eachother
The Bible was made to warn ppl about this terrible event.

You see this happening on small scales but globally?
God loves everyone which is why he wants ppl to change..

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#6 Nov 29, 2012
Christianity is cruel. Throughout its history, cruelty—both to self and others—has been one of the most prominent features of Christianity. From its very start, Christianity, with its bleak view of life, its emphasis upon sexual sin, and its almost impossible-to-meet demands for sexual "purity," encouraged guilt, penance, and self-torture. Today, this self-torture is primarily psychological, in the form of guilt arising from following (or denying, and thus obsessing over) one’s natural sexual desires. In earlier centuries, it was often physical. W.E.H. Lecky relates:
Given that the Bible nowhere condemns torture and sometimes prescribes shockingly cruel penalties (such as burning alive), and that Christians so wholeheartedly approved of self-torture, it’s not surprising that they thought little of inflicting appallingly cruel treatment upon others. At the height of Christianity’s power and influence, hundreds of thousands of "witches" were brutally tortured and burned alive under the auspices of ecclesiastical witch finders, and the Inquisition visited similarly cruel treatment upon those accused of heresy. Henry Charles Lea records:

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#7 Nov 29, 2012
swerty wrote:
Christianity is cruel. Throughout its history, cruelty—both to self and others—has been one of the most prominent features of Christianity. From its very start, Christianity, with its bleak view of life, its emphasis upon sexual sin, and its almost impossible-to-meet demands for sexual "purity," encouraged guilt, penance, and self-torture. Today, this self-torture is primarily psychological, in the form of guilt arising from following (or denying, and thus obsessing over) one’s natural sexual desires. In earlier centuries, it was often physical. W.E.H. Lecky relates:
Given that the Bible nowhere condemns torture and sometimes prescribes shockingly cruel penalties (such as burning alive), and that Christians so wholeheartedly approved of self-torture, it’s not surprising that they thought little of inflicting appallingly cruel treatment upon others. At the height of Christianity’s power and influence, hundreds of thousands of "witches" were brutally tortured and burned alive under the auspices of ecclesiastical witch finders, and the Inquisition visited similarly cruel treatment upon those accused of heresy. Henry Charles Lea
records:
The funny thing is Christianity started out by going exactly by the Bible but over time it was twisted by
humans. Mostly to gain power.

God is not happy with false teachings of religion,
He doesn't demand ppl to change,or refrain from sex before marriage .. that's only of you want to serve him.

Because of the lies and corruption that is why the Bible says religion ia going to be destroyed. All false religion will fall.

Revelation 18:22-25,revelation 17

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#8 Nov 29, 2012
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why the bible says revelation 17
"And he says to me:“The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.16And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.17For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.18And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
revelationd 18: 22And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again,23and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top&#8208;ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled.24Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
The true God Yahweh(hebre) or jehovah(english) is going to have U.N destroy religion the bible refers to false religion as The harlot babylon the great
The wilde beast with 7 headsis the U.N, 7 means complete or whole.
hence why we have 7 days in a week, takes 7 days for a cold to pass etc.
Are you insane? Do you even look at the rest of the planet? There is no magic woo woo out to destroy or control the majority of humanity. We and this planet, is all we have.
Quit the stupid, haul your ass out of the demeaning groveling slave mentality of religion. Stand up, become a human, become a man, face who we are. Our lives, our planet, our future is beautiful. All that Christainity and basically most all religions, can manage to do is, is attempt to dirty it.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#9 Nov 29, 2012
swerty wrote:
Christianity is cruel. Throughout its history, cruelty—both to self and others—has been one of the most prominent features of Christianity. From its very start, Christianity, with its bleak view of life, its emphasis upon sexual sin, and its almost impossible-to-meet demands for sexual "purity," encouraged guilt, penance, and self-torture. Today, this self-torture is primarily psychological, in the form of guilt arising from following (or denying, and thus obsessing over) one’s natural sexual desires. In earlier centuries, it was often physical. W.E.H. Lecky relates:
Given that the Bible nowhere condemns torture and sometimes prescribes shockingly cruel penalties (such as burning alive), and that Christians so wholeheartedly approved of self-torture, it’s not surprising that they thought little of inflicting appallingly cruel treatment upon others. At the height of Christianity’s power and influence, hundreds of thousands of "witches" were brutally tortured and burned alive under the auspices of ecclesiastical witch finders, and the Inquisition visited similarly cruel treatment upon those accused of heresy. Henry Charles Lea records:
Of course, that cruelty is hardly unique to Christianity or even more prevalent among its adherents. Cruelty seems to be a persistent quality of humanity, or at least a segment of human societies that occasionally attain enough dominance to inflict that cruelty with few restraints. That even the most devout of believers rarely free their communities of that nastiest of human qualities shows religion's inability to transform human morality beyond what we can achieve without it.

Religion's main deficit lies in its tendency to confuse the process of developing consistent and rational ethical standards that are necessary for organizing societies, subverting logic by justifying many of the basic fallacies. Reliance on scripture that forms the foundation of every religious ideology is the ultimate appeal to authority, along with adherence to the pronouncements of such religious authorities as popes, priests, buddhas and gurus. Skeptics are much more likely to think for themselves than believers are.

Human cruelty will always be with us. But societies that rely on consistently logical ethical systems are much less likely to allow that cruelty to be expressed with official sanction.

Oh, to live in a society where no one bothers to think about religion--not even to reject it.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

John Lennon

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#10 Nov 29, 2012
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
They are true not Christians .
Christians are supposed to preach and tell ppl about Gods kingdom, the one in the lords prayer,
Religion is not suppose to be mingling with the governments ,
False religion has caused ppl to die, ppl even think God hates gays, when he does not.
Religion being destroyed, is actually a good thing to true Christians.because those are really his people will not be stopped from worshipping him
False religion gives ppl false hope, and when they realize they have been lied too,
Just imagine the global terror, the Bible says that her destruction that no one will want to share in her destruction.
The nations will see Gods ppl still serving him, but by this time they will thinking their is no God and will consider it a threat to security
Basically you see lots of propaganda in the media this will motivate them to unknowingly go against his ppl
And God will stop them .
During this time you will see who truly is wicked and who is not.
The Bible says ppl are going to turn eachother
The Bible was made to warn ppl about this terrible event.
You see this happening on small scales but globally?
God loves everyone which is why he wants ppl to change..
The bible is a slave manual. It is a boon to the powerful and a collar for the oppressed. It is a whip, held over your head, it is a tool, by which you are controlled. It is a simple human device for the manipulation of simple humans.
It robs you, it robs your children, your family, your life and your future. You are welcome to it, but keep it too yourself. It is as unwelcome as herpes and twice as repellant as a rotting skunk carcass.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#11 Nov 30, 2012
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Are you insane? Do you even look at the rest of the planet? There is no magic woo woo out to destroy or control the majority of humanity. We and this planet, is all we have.
Quit the stupid, haul your ass out of the demeaning groveling slave mentality of religion. Stand up, become a human, become a man, face who we are. Our lives, our planet, our future is beautiful. All that Christainity and basically most
all religions, can manage to do is, is attempt to
dirty it.
Are you kidding me?
The Soviet union was responsible forbthe Ukraine genocide,
Also the Chinese had a genocide, the Jews, etc

You call that progression? Religion and the governments are flawed.

Most if the governments today are corrupt. Humans do not know how to take care of the earth.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#12 Nov 30, 2012
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you kidding me?
The Soviet union was responsible forbthe Ukraine genocide,
Also the Chinese had a genocide, the Jews, etc
You call that progression? Religion and the governments are flawed.
Most if the governments today are corrupt. Humans do not know how to take care of the earth.
No, I am not kidding.

Whether humans can take care of this planet or not, doesn't even come close to proving any god. The so called god of the buybull is a total fail, he was beaten by the iron chariot and he may make you eat your children. Those two parts of the buybull show him to be a primitive scare mongering tool, nothing more.

You can though prove him true, if you wish. It only takes the tinest bit of faith, start praying, move me a mountain, or have him restore just one missing limb for any human, anywhere.

Anything you ask in his name is the promise, anything. The lizards limb will be restored without a single prayer, but man's .... never, and no prayer to the almighty can change it.

His promises are not kept.

The genocides are the work of man, usually because of some damned religion, power or just greed, and the big "fix it" god, doesn't fix it ever, but then neither does any of the thousands of gods.

http://ansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12...
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#13 Dec 1, 2012
NightSerf wrote:
...
There are other issues, but I see this one as primal. Does anyone else?
I think I would highlight two problems specific to Muslim-majority countries.

One is the idea that it is inherently good to have religious faith (in Allah). The very assumption that one should be guided by a 'good book' that came from a god twists people's perception of anyone who is different - gays, christians, atheists or even the 'wrong kind' of Islamist.

The second problem is the idea that the fundamental principles of political democracy,(small d) such as freedom of speech and expression; press freedom; separation of church and state; rule of law and 'one law for all; freedom of and from religion are 'western' impositions rather than valuable general principles. Try telling a 'moderate' Muslim that these principles are applicable to human societies in general - that they should be considered as important and applicable to Islamic societies as they are to Christian, atheist or secular ones.

(This might seem to be the problem Mohammed Morsi is having understanding why he cannot change the constitution in favour of 'Islamic principles' and sharia law?)

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#14 Dec 3, 2012
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>The bible is a slave manual. It is a boon to the powerful and a collar for the oppressed. It is a whip, held over your head, it is a tool, by which you are controlled. It is a simple human device for the manipulation of simple humans.
It robs you, it robs your children, your family, your life and your future. You are welcome to it, but keep it too yourself. It is as unwelcome as herpes and twice as repellant as a rotting skunk carcass.
The bible is a book of life. keep eating those foods that contain amonia,also keep taking those vaccines that contain mercury, msg,formaldeyde and aluminum.keep supporting the mainstream, who construct these weapons of mass destruction that kill millions. keep supporting these goverments,who try to do their best but fail to stop their troops from go over seas rapping the women, or Religion who claim to go by the bible but willingly promote bloodshed in support of politics.... and

is not the bible, but humans who have contributed to the calamity of others.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#15 Dec 3, 2012
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>No, I am not kidding.
Whether humans can take care of this planet or not, doesn't even come close to proving any god. The so called god of the buybull is a total fail, he was beaten by the iron chariot and he may make you eat your children. Those two parts of the buybull show him to be a primitive scare mongering tool, nothing more.
You can though prove him true, if you wish. It only takes the tinest bit of faith, start praying, move me a mountain, or have him restore just one missing limb for any human, anywhere.
Anything you ask in his name is the promise, anything. The lizards limb will be restored without a single prayer, but man's .... never, and no prayer to the almighty can change it.
His promises are not kept.
The genocides are the work of man, usually because of some damned religion, power or just greed, and the big "fix it" god, doesn't fix it ever, but then neither does any of the thousands of gods.
http://ansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12...
Its not Gods fault at all,he had the bible made to help people. but unfortuantely the way religion and the goverments has used the bible is for their on selfish desires.
satan is misleading this world and he challanged God,Claiming that he can turn all humans against him.

the bible shows humans that this wickedness will not carry on for long
Revelation 17,18, says that God will do away with false teachings of religion.

and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top&#8208;ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled.24Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

In order for God to fulfull his promises, he has to do this first.
Religion will be no more, you will see, he has already been exposing it.

And he says to me:“The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.16And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.17For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished

God is going to make the U.N destroy religion,they bible says it will be no warning.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#16 Dec 3, 2012
Crazy cult people say the darnedest things.
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
Its not Gods fault at all,he had the bible made to help people. but unfortuantely the way religion and the goverments has used the bible is for their on selfish desires.
satan is misleading this world and he challanged God,Claiming that he can turn all humans against him.
the bible shows humans that this wickedness will not carry on for long
Revelation 17,18, says that God will do away with false teachings of religion.
and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top&#8208;ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled.24Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
In order for God to fulfull his promises, he has to do this first.
Religion will be no more, you will see, he has already been exposing it.
And he says to me:“The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.16And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.17For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished
God is going to make the U.N destroy religion,they bible says it will be no warning.
nOgOd

Rockford, IL

#17 Dec 3, 2012
"If you believe in judgment day I have to seriously question your judgement."

Bill Maher

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#18 Dec 4, 2012
Atheists in that wasteland known as the Middle East are brave people to be sure. Islam is a barbaric butcher religion. All the Abrahamic religions are to this day but certainly I as an atheist can go hang around my old baptist family an friends without having to worry about honor killings and such.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#19 Dec 4, 2012
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible is a book of life. keep eating those foods that contain amonia,also keep taking those vaccines that contain mercury, msg,formaldeyde and aluminum.keep supporting the mainstream, who construct these weapons of mass destruction that kill millions. keep supporting these goverments,who try to do their best but fail to stop their troops from go over seas rapping the women, or Religion who claim to go by the bible but willingly promote bloodshed in support of politics.... and
is not the bible, but humans who have contributed to the calamity of others.
Your bible god would make you eat your children. Nuff said!

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#20 Dec 4, 2012
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
Its not Gods fault at all ...
Quit the stupid, haul your ass out of the demeaning groveling slave mentality of religion. Stand up, become a human, become a man, face who we are. Our lives, our planet, our future is beautiful. All that Christainity and basically most all religions, can manage to do is, is attempt to dirty it.

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