The Pleasure of a Place of Your Own

Posted in the Atheism Forum

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#1 Jul 17, 2013
THE PLEASURE OF A PLACE OF YOUR OWN.

Why is the Jewish Promised Land always referred to as a land of milk and honey? Because, after 430 years living in a strange land, Egypt there is, the Israelites would finally live in a land of their own; a land of milk and honey. That's what milk and honey in this context means; to live in a place that they could call their own.

The same definition goes for Prophet Isaiah's reference to "Butter and honey" or "Curds and honey." It happens that when Israel, the Ten Tribes the Kingdom of the North was conquered and transferred to Assyria for good, Judah, the Southern Kingdom was left behind to take possession of the whole of greater Israel as of its own.

Israel was the "virgin" which according to Amos 5:2 had fallen and Judah the child according to Isaiah 7:14,15,22; 8:8 which the virgin had been found with. So, Judah would be living in "Curds and honey"; there is, living in the whole Land of Israel, North and South as its own place. Hence, milk and honey, butter and honey or curds and honey are only to mean a place of one's own.
Amused

Southbridge, MA

#2 Jul 17, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
THE PLEASURE OF A PLACE OF YOUR OWN.
Why is the Jewish Promised Land always referred to as a land of milk and honey? Because, after 430 years living in a strange land, Egypt there is, the Israelites would finally live in a land of their own; a land of milk and honey. That's what milk and honey in this context means; to live in a place that they could call their own.
The same definition goes for Prophet Isaiah's reference to "Butter and honey" or "Curds and honey." It happens that when Israel, the Ten Tribes the Kingdom of the North was conquered and transferred to Assyria for good, Judah, the Southern Kingdom was left behind to take possession of the whole of greater Israel as of its own.
Israel was the "virgin" which according to Amos 5:2 had fallen and Judah the child according to Isaiah 7:14,15,22; 8:8 which the virgin had been found with. So, Judah would be living in "Curds and honey"; there is, living in the whole Land of Israel, North and South as its own place. Hence, milk and honey, butter and honey or curds and honey are only to mean a place of one's own.
There are no conteomporary records from Egyptian sources referencing a population of Jews in Egypt, the alleged plagues, the exodus, the parting of the Red Sea, the existence of Joseph or Moses. Since there are records from that period referencing much more mundane matters, the claims of the bible are deeply suspect.

Both in biblical time, according to the old testament and in the present time, the israelites did not come onto the "promised land" as a vast, unoccupied area. They used force to dispose of the indigenous peoples in order to make it their own. Both times, relying on beliefs that they are 'special' and that they have rights greater than other people because their imaginary friend loves them best. So, it's more like the land of milk, honey and indigenous people's blood.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#3 Jul 18, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no conteomporary records from Egyptian sources referencing a population of Jews in Egypt, the alleged plagues, the exodus, the parting of the Red Sea, the existence of Joseph or Moses. Since there are records from that period referencing much more mundane matters, the claims of the bible are deeply suspect.
Both in biblical time, according to the old testament and in the present time, the israelites did not come onto the "promised land" as a vast, unoccupied area. They used force to dispose of the indigenous peoples in order to make it their own. Both times, relying on beliefs that they are 'special' and that they have rights greater than other people because their imaginary friend loves them best. So, it's more like the land of milk, honey and indigenous people's blood.
----------

Perhaps the claimed lack of records that Israel was ever in Egypt characterizes the same spirit that possesses you to wish the existence of the Jewish People was erased from the face of the earth. We have got used to that too.

The time the Israelites entered Canaan was a time of huge migrations effected by many groups. The Israelites were not the only ones. Many other groups of Hebrews, Hittites, and several other Canaanites did the same at dispossessing former settlers to settle themselves down and build a dwelling place of their own.

Yes, the Israelites did use of force to dispose the indigenous peoples when they first entered the land of Canaan as did all the other peoples in search of a place of their own but not this time
when our land had been occupied by strangers. Even so we agreed to live together and share the land but they refused as they declared they could not have Jews in the Middle East. In that case we decided to stand our ground and to be here to stay.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#4 Jul 18, 2013
I bet there won't be peace until there is a one-state solution in Palestine-Israel. Palestinians are the majority. I think that's just a matter of time.

Humanity needs to focus on the next 2,000 years, not on which group of religious nutters imagines it owns which "holy land".

Religion = superstition.
It's divisive, outdated and trouble.
Amused

Southbridge, MA

#5 Jul 19, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
Perhaps the claimed lack of records that Israel was ever in Egypt characterizes the same spirit that possesses you to wish the existence of the Jewish People was erased from the face of the earth. We have got used to that too.
The time the Israelites entered Canaan was a time of huge migrations effected by many groups. The Israelites were not the only ones. Many other groups of Hebrews, Hittites, and several other Canaanites did the same at dispossessing former settlers to settle themselves down and build a dwelling place of their own.
Yes, the Israelites did use of force to dispose the indigenous peoples when they first entered the land of Canaan as did all the other peoples in search of a place of their own but not this time
when our land had been occupied by strangers. Even so we agreed to live together and share the land but they refused as they declared they could not have Jews in the Middle East. In that case we decided to stand our ground and to be here to stay.
I hope you are not representative of general Israeli opinion. The fact that you can see no middle ground between unquestioning support of Israeli policies that deny the Palestinians a homeland of their own and a desire to "erase" the Jewish people from the face of the earth does not bode well for the prospect of peace.

The fact that the UN (not the Israelis) called for a two state solution is not particularly relevant, given the actions of the Israeli government. Building settlements, refusing to negotiate with the Palestinians, the walls, the restrictions on movement of Palestinians, etc. are all incompatible with offering to share the land.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#6 Jul 19, 2013
EdSed wrote:
I bet there won't be peace until there is a one-state solution in Palestine-Israel. Palestinians are the majority. I think that's just a matter of time.
Humanity needs to focus on the next 2,000 years, not on which group of religious nutters imagines it owns which "holy land".
Religion = superstition.
It's divisive, outdated and trouble.
---

Sorry but you have no sense of History. You don't even know which faction constitutes the majority in the Land of Israel. Palestinians have not reached even the 3 million bracket. Jews have passed the sixth million digit in population.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#7 Jul 19, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you are not representative of general Israeli opinion. The fact that you can see no middle ground between unquestioning support of Israeli policies that deny the Palestinians a homeland of their own and a desire to "erase" the Jewish people from the face of the earth does not bode well for the prospect of peace.
The fact that the UN (not the Israelis) called for a two state solution is not particularly relevant, given the actions of the Israeli government. Building settlements, refusing to negotiate with the Palestinians, the walls, the restrictions on movement of Palestinians, etc. are all incompatible with offering to share the land.
-----

You forgot a very important item: The thrown of rockets almost daily from time to time at Jewish density areas especially to target school children and the almost daily bombing of buses before the wall was built. Regarding a homeland for the Palestinians they had their own place in the Land of Israel but were forced by their own brethren to desert their houses and stay for some time in refugee camps while the neighboring Arab countries would push the Jews into the sea. Then they would return and take over the homes of the Jews. Their attempt turned out into a fiasco and in their frustration for having badly lost the war they refused to help the Palestinians forced out by themselves. And for the negotiations you claim we refuse this is not true at all. The truth is that the only negotiation they agree with is to render the whole of the Land of Israel to them and leave the Middle East. Nice try!
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#8 Jul 19, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
---
Sorry but you have no sense of History...blah, blah.
Actually I have a very good knowledge of history. You have no sense of reality.
Religion = superstition

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#9 Jul 20, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Actually I have a very good knowledge of history. You have no sense of reality.
Religion = superstition
------

Judaism is not a religion but a way of life. Religion is subject to faith. Judaism is subject to Reason.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#10 Jul 20, 2013
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
------
Judaism is not a religion but a way of life. Religion is subject to faith. Judaism is subject to Reason.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Judaism
Judaism is one of three main Abrahamic religions.

We agree religion is faith-based, not subject to reason.
LCN Llin

United States

#11 Jul 21, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Judaism
Judaism is one of three main Abrahamic religions.
We agree religion is faith-based, not subject to reason.
agree

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12 Jul 21, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Judaism
Judaism is one of three main Abrahamic religions.
We agree religion is faith-based, not subject to reason.
If you could reason with believers?

There would not be any...

... actually.

:)
Amused

Southbridge, MA

#13 Jul 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
If you could reason with believers?
There would not be any...
... actually.
:)
You can't reason someone out of a position they did not adopt through reason. Believers believe because of indoctrination or because of emotion. None of the stories has enough credibility to be adopted through reason.
LCN Llin

United States

#14 Jul 22, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't reason someone out of a position they did not adopt through reason. Believers believe because of indoctrination or because of emotion. None of the stories has enough credibility to be adopted through reason.
since Bob posts the same thing every day
on 11 atheist threads
one may wonder if Bob is trying
to convince himself?
...just saying.
Peace

Thinking

York, UK

#15 Jul 22, 2013
Honey is made by bees regurgitating, which is clearly a very clean and holy process.

Which is why honey goes so well with bacon. Or a prawn salad.
Shibolet wrote:
THE PLEASURE OF A PLACE OF YOUR OWN.
Why is the Jewish Promised Land always referred to as a land of milk and honey? Because, after 430 years living in a strange land, Egypt there is, the Israelites would finally live in a land of their own; a land of milk and honey. That's what milk and honey in this context means; to live in a place that they could call their own.
The same definition goes for Prophet Isaiah's reference to "Butter and honey" or "Curds and honey." It happens that when Israel, the Ten Tribes the Kingdom of the North was conquered and transferred to Assyria for good, Judah, the Southern Kingdom was left behind to take possession of the whole of greater Israel as of its own.
Israel was the "virgin" which according to Amos 5:2 had fallen and Judah the child according to Isaiah 7:14,15,22; 8:8 which the virgin had been found with. So, Judah would be living in "Curds and honey"; there is, living in the whole Land of Israel, North and South as its own place. Hence, milk and honey, butter and honey or curds and honey are only to mean a place of one's own.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#16 Jul 22, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Honey is made by bees regurgitating, which is clearly a very clean and holy process.
Which is why honey goes so well with bacon. Or a prawn salad.
<quoted text>
.... mmmmm.... bacon... and honey.

*drool*

:)

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#17 Jul 23, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Judaism
Judaism is one of three main Abrahamic religions.
We agree religion is faith-based, not subject to reason.
------

That's what you agree. I don't. If you have the right to your opinion, I do too to mine.

Since: Feb 13

Los Angeles, CA

#18 Jul 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Honey is made by bees regurgitating, which is clearly a very clean and holy process.
Which is why honey goes so well with bacon. Or a prawn salad.
<quoted text>
----

I thought we were on the same level in comprehension of metaphorical language.
Thinking

York, UK

#19 Jul 23, 2013
You flatter yourself.
But why is bee puke honey holy but shellfish a no no?
Shibolet wrote:
<quoted text>
----
I thought we were on the same level in comprehension of metaphorical language.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#20 Jul 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
You flatter yourself.
But why is bee puke honey holy but shellfish a no no?
<quoted text>
Because the **men** who penned his ugly book were basically <expletives>?

Or maybe they were allergic to shellfish?

Or?

(and this is most likely of all)

They were simply too stupid to understand how to properly prepare shellfish...

... they were certainly too stupid about **many** things-- why not this, too?

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