If Christianity were true...
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#105 Aug 18, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion for me is the direct invention of satan.
Paul invented Christianity. And your own God invented Judaism.

Sure you w ant to stick with that "invention of Satan" stuff?:)
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
Christianity is about one's relationship with God. In fact, God hates religion because it leads man away from God just as your god has led you away. No different.
This is total nonsense God hates religion? Jesus was a lifelong Temple-sacrificing, Torah-observant Jew.

Paul founded the Christian religion in the name and under the guidance (supposedly) of your very God.

And your God gave a detailed religious scripture, the Torah, to his people the Jews, so they could use ti in their religion to follow him and worship him.

And you claim "God hates religion"? Please.
Amused

Lowell, MA

#106 Aug 18, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
Hey Atheists/Agnostics!
Are there any of you here in this forum that have enough courage (or guts) to boldly say in front of all these highly educated know-it-all Atheist friends of yours,
"YES! If Christianity were true I would become a Christian. I would much rather spend eternity in heaven rather than in hell."
...or are you all weak arrogant cowards who don't have the guts to say, "YES! If Christianity were true I would become a Christian."
Anyone? Are you here?
I'm waiting to hear from you.
"If Christianity were true..." Produce some proof raising that possibility above mere speculation, and then, and only then, is there a basis for a conversation. Until then,, your question makes no more sense than askin, "if leprechauns are real, would you choose to be Irish?" If there is no proof of your "if", there is no point to guessing about the "then".
Patrick

United States

#107 Aug 18, 2014
Pope Francis has lifted a ban on the beatification of murdered Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero.

Some good news

For years, the Roman Catholic Church blocked the process because of concerns that he had Marxist ideas.

An outspoken critic of the military regime during El Salvador's bloody civil war, Archbishop Romero was shot dead while celebrating Mass in 1980.

Beatification, or declaring a person "blessed", is the necessary prelude to full sainthood.

The bishop was one of the main proponents of Liberation Theology - an interpretation of Christian faith through the perspective of the poor.

'Death squads'
On Monday, the Pope said he was hoping for a swift beatification process.

"For me Romero is a man of God," the pontiff told journalists on the plane bringing him back from a trip to South Korea.

"There are no doctrinal problems and it is very important that [the beatification] is done quickly."

Archbishop Romero denounced the right-wing death squads that operated in the Central American nation at the time and the oppression against the poor, calling for an end to all political violence.

Left-wing rebels fought an insurgency against the US-backed right-wing government.

Some 75,000 people were killed in the civil war, which began in 1980 and ended in 1992 with a UN-brokered peace agreement.

Archbishop Romero was killed on 24 March 1980, aged 62, after ending his sermon in the capital, San Salvador.

No-one has ever been convicted in connection with his murder.

In 2010, then President Mauricio Funes - El Salvador's first left-wing leader since the end of the civil war - made an official apology.

"I am seeking pardon in the name of the state," Mr Funes said as he unveiled a mural honouring Oscar Romero at El Salvador's international airport.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#108 Aug 19, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ONE TO SERIOUSLY CONSIDER ATHEISM!!!
The atheist's proof???
Ok, here's the atheist proof there is no God:
But first, the atheist will say, "The burden of proof is on Christians to prove there is a God." There it is! That's there "out" for offering no evidence to their foolish claims and avoiding a serious thought out open-minded discussion on the possibility God really does exist. So even when a Christian comes along with considerable detailed evidence, the atheist, with his closed mind will simply ignore it and all the other cheerleader atheist will pump out their chest and proclaim to be victors.
Ok, here's the atheist's evidence:
"In the beginning everything came from nothing!(((B_O_O_M))) There was a Big Bang! And here we all are. Need more proof?"
~Author unknown
Uh... yea! What caused the big bang and what preceded it?
(Uh...we don't really know what caused it. But proof is on the way. Someday. Or at least we hope proof is forthcoming. We have blind faith in our belief.)
The Truth:
Nothing + Nothing = Nothing
Nothing - Nothing = Nothing
Nothing x Nothing = Nothing
No matter how one mathematizes nothing, he will always end up with nothing.
Fact: You can't get something from nothing. Only something can produce something.
Something had to always exist. Something eternal.
2 choices:
1. Eternal God
2. Eternal Universe
Only an eternal God is logical. For if you answer eternal universe, you have to answer where it came from.
Gen. 1:1: "In the beginning God"
Here is A 30 Second Argument for God:
http://www.blogos.org/compellingtruth/argumen...
I've been advocating a somewhat controversial idea about the burden of proof. I think it falls on anyone who wants to persuade others to change their minds about something. If I honestly wanted Fisher to become an atheist, I would have to present compelling reasons for him to do so. The same is true of him if he wants me to become a Christian. I don't actually care whether he agrees with me or not, though, and he seems to care very much whether atheists can be brought into his fold. That puts the burden of proof squarely on his shoulders.

I would be perfectly comfortable being the only atheistic skeptic on earth--I don't need affirmations from others to support my understanding of life, the universe, and everything. That said, it is gratifying to see belief in God continuing to decline as measured by the many polls that have been taken over the last half century. The most recent that I know of is last December's Harris poll that showed belief declining from 82% to 74% in a mere four years. That is one giant leap for skepticism.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

#109 Aug 19, 2014
How is rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic good news?

beatification is moronic.
Patrick wrote:
Pope Francis has lifted a ban on the beatification of murdered Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero.
Some good news
For years, the Roman Catholic Church blocked the process because of concerns that he had Marxist ideas.
An outspoken critic of the military regime during El Salvador's bloody civil war, Archbishop Romero was shot dead while celebrating Mass in 1980.
Beatification, or declaring a person "blessed", is the necessary prelude to full sainthood.
The bishop was one of the main proponents of Liberation Theology - an interpretation of Christian faith through the perspective of the poor.
'Death squads'
On Monday, the Pope said he was hoping for a swift beatification process.
"For me Romero is a man of God," the pontiff told journalists on the plane bringing him back from a trip to South Korea.
"There are no doctrinal problems and it is very important that [the beatification] is done quickly."
Archbishop Romero denounced the right-wing death squads that operated in the Central American nation at the time and the oppression against the poor, calling for an end to all political violence.
Left-wing rebels fought an insurgency against the US-backed right-wing government.
Some 75,000 people were killed in the civil war, which began in 1980 and ended in 1992 with a UN-brokered peace agreement.
Archbishop Romero was killed on 24 March 1980, aged 62, after ending his sermon in the capital, San Salvador.
No-one has ever been convicted in connection with his murder.
In 2010, then President Mauricio Funes - El Salvador's first left-wing leader since the end of the civil war - made an official apology.
"I am seeking pardon in the name of the state," Mr Funes said as he unveiled a mural honouring Oscar Romero at El Salvador's international airport.
Patrick

United States

#110 Aug 19, 2014
Atheism an old philosophy of some merit, examined by the Greeks many thousands of years ago.

Over a good cup of coffee the discussion usually moves on to great films -
Animal House
Radio Days
The Quiet American
Alice in the Cities
Smilla's Sense of Snow

Since no one can prove atheism the arguments tend to be circular.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#111 Aug 19, 2014
Less than three is not "many", Lincock.

I remain a non-believer no matter how often you misrepresent the word "Atheist".
Patrick wrote:
Atheism an old philosophy of some merit, examined by the Greeks many thousands of years ago.
Over a good cup of coffee the discussion usually moves on to great films -
Animal House
Radio Days
The Quiet American
Alice in the Cities
Smilla's Sense of Snow
Since no one can prove atheism the arguments tend to be circular.

Since: May 11

Reality, USA

#112 Aug 19, 2014
Patrick wrote:
Atheism an old philosophy of some merit, examined by the Greeks many thousands of years ago.
Over a good cup of coffee the discussion usually moves on to great films -
Animal House
Radio Days
The Quiet American
Alice in the Cities
Smilla's Sense of Snow
Since no one can prove atheism the arguments tend to be circular.
???

You are a special kind of ignorant aren't you? You don't even make a very good troll.
Patrick

United States

#113 Aug 19, 2014
In the real world ....

Pope Francis said on Monday the international community would be justified in stopping Islamist militants in Iraq, but that it should not be up to a single nation to decide how to intervene in the conflict.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in an hour-long conversation with reporters aboard a plane returning from a trip to South Korea that ranged from international diplomacy to his health and future travel plans.

During the encounter that has become a tradition at the end of his foreign journeys, Francis, 77, also said he planned to visit the United States next year and that he was ready to go to China "tomorrow" if the communist government allowed him.

He said he realised he had to slow down and be more "prudent" with his health and that he had learned how to handle the super-star status he has gained since coming to office last year by thinking of his errors and his own imminent mortality.

Francis was asked if he approved of US strikes against Isis insurgents who have recently forced Christians and other minorities to flee their homes in Iraq.

"In these cases, where there is an unjust aggression I can only say that it is legitimate to stop the unjust aggressor," he said.

Proclaiming a caliphate straddling Iraq and Syria, the militants have swept across northern Iraq, pushing back Kurdish regional forces and driving tens of thousands of Christians and members of the Yazidi religious minority from their homes.

The pope was careful not to give the impression that he was giving an automatic green light for military strikes, but he did not rule them out. He said the situation was grave and the international community had to
Thinking

Sidmouth, UK

#114 Aug 19, 2014
In the real world... you failed to quote your source again.
Patrick wrote:
In the real world ....
Pope Francis said on Monday the international community would be justified in stopping Islamist militants in Iraq, but that it should not be up to a single nation to decide how to intervene in the conflict.
The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in an hour-long conversation with reporters aboard a plane returning from a trip to South Korea that ranged from international diplomacy to his health and future travel plans.
During the encounter that has become a tradition at the end of his foreign journeys, Francis, 77, also said he planned to visit the United States next year and that he was ready to go to China "tomorrow" if the communist government allowed him.
He said he realised he had to slow down and be more "prudent" with his health and that he had learned how to handle the super-star status he has gained since coming to office last year by thinking of his errors and his own imminent mortality.
Francis was asked if he approved of US strikes against Isis insurgents who have recently forced Christians and other minorities to flee their homes in Iraq.
"In these cases, where there is an unjust aggression I can only say that it is legitimate to stop the unjust aggressor," he said.
Proclaiming a caliphate straddling Iraq and Syria, the militants have swept across northern Iraq, pushing back Kurdish regional forces and driving tens of thousands of Christians and members of the Yazidi religious minority from their homes.
The pope was careful not to give the impression that he was giving an automatic green light for military strikes, but he did not rule them out. He said the situation was grave and the international community had to
Amused

Lowell, MA

#115 Aug 19, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?
If islam were true, would you become a muslim?

If buddhism were true, would you become a buddhist?

If cargo cults were true, would you wait on the beach for a plane full of goodies?

If the aztec religion were true, would you cut someone's heart out to keep the sun shining?

If satanism were true, would you become a satanist?

In the absence of any proof of truth, all of these questions are equally absurd.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#116 Aug 19, 2014
Ah, you stole my thunder!

I too was going to ask our friend if Islam were proved to be true, would he convert and worship Allah.

Let's see what he says, shall we?:)
Thinking

Ashford, UK

#117 Aug 19, 2014
So we won't be worshipping Thor, then.

:)
Gillette wrote:
Ah, you stole my thunder!
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#118 Aug 19, 2014
Thinking wrote:
So we won't be worshipping Thor, then.
:)
<quoted text>
Allah woud be a handful for any of us, I would think.

Turn or Burn, Thinking! Turn or Burn!
Thinking

Ashford, UK

#119 Aug 19, 2014
No worries, allah is pretty useless.
He can't even stop sunni and shiite killing each other.
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Allah woud be a handful for any of us, I would think.
Turn or Burn, Thinking! Turn or Burn!
CunningLinguist

Orlando, FL

#120 Aug 19, 2014
Patrick wrote:
Atheism an old philosophy of some merit, examined by the Greeks many thousands of years ago.
Over a good cup of coffee the discussion usually moves on to great films -
Animal House
Radio Days
The Quiet American
Alice in the Cities
Smilla's Sense of Snow
Since no one can prove atheism the arguments tend to be circular.
Speaking of those Greeks...

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?~ Epicurus
CunningLinguist

Orlando, FL

#121 Aug 19, 2014
Patrick wrote:
Atheism an old philosophy of some merit, examined by the Greeks many thousands of years ago.
Over a good cup of coffee the discussion usually moves on to great films -
Animal House
Radio Days
The Quiet American
Alice in the Cities
Smilla's Sense of Snow
Since no one can prove atheism the arguments tend to be circular.
Philosophers view a thing from many different angles. Theism tends to very everything through a single (correct) angle. Generally, philosophy is more to do with questions than answers, while theism is more to do with answers than questions.

Philosophy's open-mindedness generally isn't compatible with religion, because religion already has an answer whereas philosophy's nature is to determine its own answer.

Good coffee? Jamaican blue Mountain!
CunningLinguist

Orlando, FL

#122 Aug 19, 2014
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been advocating a somewhat controversial idea about the burden of proof. I think it falls on anyone who wants to persuade others to change their minds about something. If I honestly wanted Fisher to become an atheist, I would have to present compelling reasons for him to do so. The same is true of him if he wants me to become a Christian. I don't actually care whether he agrees with me or not, though, and he seems to care very much whether atheists can be brought into his fold. That puts the burden of proof squarely on his shoulders.
I would be perfectly comfortable being the only atheistic skeptic on earth--I don't need affirmations from others to support my understanding of life, the universe, and everything. That said, it is gratifying to see belief in God continuing to decline as measured by the many polls that have been taken over the last half century. The most recent that I know of is last December's Harris poll that showed belief declining from 82% to 74% in a mere four years. That is one giant leap for skepticism.
Yes it is a giant leap.

"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance."
~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson

https://m.youtube.com/watch...
Patrick

United States

#123 Aug 19, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Philosophers view a thing from many different angles. Theism tends to very everything through a single (correct) angle. Generally, philosophy is more to do with questions than answers, while theism is more to do with answers than questions.
Philosophy's open-mindedness generally isn't compatible with religion, because religion already has an answer whereas philosophy's nature is to determine its own answer.
Good coffee? Jamaican blue Mountain!
Jamaican Blue Mountain & Haitian Blue
Feel it depends on the religion and the philosophical outlook.
Suspect those who have all the pat answers.
"Life is Mystery" -

Good Coffee helps the day
Thinking

Poole, UK

#124 Aug 19, 2014
Indeed.

Religion is an old philosophy of little merit debunked by the Greeks over two thousand years ago.
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of those Greeks...
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?~ Epicurus

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