If Christianity were true...
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#42 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
As for your question, again, I’m not sure why I am bothering to answer you. Perhaps I feel sorry for you, or perhaps I’m doing it for the other readers here. Because I really do believe there are honest truth seekers in this forum. But from this point forward, don’t expect me to respond to you. I have already “shook the dust off my feet”.
OK, whatever you say (wink, wink) LOL
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply, all people recognize some kind of moral code (some things are right, and some things are wrong) even the most remote tribes who have been cut off from the rest of civilization observe a moral code similar to everyone else's.
So the criterion for getting to heaven is NOT "accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" or believing the right beliefs about Jesus, it's being a good, moral person who does good works, regardless of what they may believe about a deity, right?(cf. Matthew 25:31-46 for confirmation of this from Jesus' own mouth, by the way).

So if a Muslim recognizes the moral code of right and wrong of Sharia Law, which he has been told and programmed to believe is "God-given" by his parent, elders and "church" just as you have your beliefs, that Muslim (BILLIONS of them, actually) will be standing beside you in front of Jesus in heaven for all eternity, right?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#43 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
Only 2 choices:
Heaven or hell?... no, you already know that!
Who says there are "only two choices"?

There are plenty for religions and spiritual paths that DON'T include a heaven or hell as you depict them or confine us to two choices.

There may be only two choices if you choose to live inside the narrow walls of your particular form of Christian belief.

Why would you think that everybody else has to feel bound by the narrow walls of YOUR beliefs?
Fisher of Men wrote:
If you could know without any doubt, that Christianity were true (absolutely true) would you become a Christian?
I wouldn't need to BECOME a Christian, I'd BE a Christian if it were know to me and everyone else, without any doubt, that "Christianity were true." That seems like common sense.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#44 Aug 16, 2014
Your question is unbelievably stupid--by definition, anyone who with no doubts that Christianity is true already identifies as a Christian. Of course, some people define "Christianity" and "Christian" more narrowly than others. Many don't think of Catholics as Christians, for instance, or believe that only members of their own sect or at least subscribe to the same credo qualify. To my way of thinking, though, all who believe that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah and try to follow his teachings as they understand them are Christians.

You are only the latest of many to post here with this approach. Why should anyone here bother with you? You're just another troll.
Fisher of Men

Mansfield, OH

#45 Aug 16, 2014
Gillette wrote:
I wouldn't need to BECOME a Christian, I'd BE a Christian if it were know to me and everyone else, without any doubt, that "Christianity were true." That seems like common sense.
So you're saying that you want to go to heaven after all?
Fisher of Men

Mansfield, OH

#46 Aug 16, 2014
NightSerf wrote:
Why should anyone here bother with you? You're just another troll.
My title says it all! I am a "Fisher of Men". I'm hiding nothing from that fact. If that is what you mean by troll, then I suppose I am. But I'm not sure what you mean by troll. Are you familiar with the Biblical reference to "Fisher of Men" and what that means?

I'm in search of people, atheist or whoever that have an open mind to the possibility of absolute truth and would like to explore that possibility with an open mind. I am fishing for unbelievers that will publicly acknowledge the possibility exist that Christianity is true according to the Bible. If your answer to my question, "If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?" is yes, then let's talk. But if your mind is made up and your answer to my question is, "NO" then just go away. I don't have time for you.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#48 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying that you want to go to heaven after all?
I don't believe in anything as simplistic as a Heaven/Hell dichotomy.

But in terms of your initial setup, if it were unmistakably true to everyone on earth that Jesus existed and that he is Lord and CHristianity were the religion, sure, I'd be a Christian, and gladly so. So would nearly everyone else on earth.

Again, under THOSE circumstances, it would seem like common sense.
Fisher of Men

Mansfield, OH

#49 Aug 16, 2014
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in anything as simplistic as a Heaven/Hell dichotomy.
But in terms of your initial setup, if it were unmistakably true to everyone on earth that Jesus existed and that he is Lord and CHristianity were the religion, sure, I'd be a Christian, and gladly so. So would nearly everyone else on earth.
Again, under THOSE circumstances, it would seem like common sense.
But wouldn't that take away our right to choose to believe or choose not to believe? If God took away all evil, from the beginning of time and we only saw Him, then we would be like little robots or puppets and we would have no choice in the matter because He would be the only choice. That's not free will nor the God I want to serve. He gives us a choice. You made yours! I made mine.

Consider this, science isn't unmistakably true is it? It's only unmistakably true until someone smarter discovers that what was thought to be unmistakably true wasn't unmistakably true after all. So what your asking for is impossible. Some sort of aith is required in nearly everything we believe or used to believe or thought we believed or will believe in the future.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#50 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
But wouldn't that take away our right to choose to believe or choose not to believe?
Why would that be important to God? Why not just love us and let us live and enjoy life, etc.? Isn't that how human parents treat their children? Unconditional love, without requiring that their sons and daughters "love them" in a certain way or show fealty or obedience, etc.?(Cf, Parable of the Prodigal Son, by the way)
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
If God took away all evil, from the beginning of time and we only saw Him, then we would be like little robots or puppets and we would have no choice in the matter because He would be the only choice.
Why would we need to be mindless puppets (unless God wanted us to be)? We would simply see what is, the reality of God, and enjoy that together with God, in full consciousness and appreciation of him.

Who says there has to be a "choice" or that life is setup as a one-time, brief span on earth, with a life or death choice to be made on which eternal pleasure or eternal torture hinges?
I understand that that is the theology of your particular branch of Christianity, but not everyone sees the world and sees spiritual reality in this way.

Isn't one of your major problems and tasks getting other to see the world like you see the world? And they won't, will they? They will see the world like THEY see it, often as was taught to them as children, or as they have come to see it.
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not free will nor the God I want to serve.
There have been countless books written on the subject of supposed free will under the Christian God, and whether it exists or not and whether it even COULD exist or not. I'm sure you're aware of that.:)
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
He gives us a choice. You made yours! I made mine.
We see the world and reality differently, yes. The problem, as I see it, is when you intimate that I will be tortured forever by a loving God for seeing the world differently than you do.
It's as if I wear red glasses and you wear green ones. I'd insist the world has a red tint to it, and you would insist that it has a green cast.

Which one of us is right? NEITHER of us, right?:)
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
Consider this, science isn't unmistakably true is it? It's only unmistakably true until someone smarter discovers that what was thought to be unmistakably true wasn't unmistakably true after all.
Science doesn't deal in "truth," which is a philosophical and religious term. Science deals in evidence. And yes, the way it works is that the best explanation (for example, the modern-day Theory of Evolution) stands as "what we know" unless and until something fuller and more complete comes along that better fits and explains the evidence.

The understanding of science grows as our knowledge grows. Can we say the same about any set of religious beliefs?
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
So what your asking for is impossible. Some sort of faith is required in nearly everything we believe or used to believe or thought we believed or will believe in the future.
OK. But it was YOUR initial premise, i.e. "if Christianity were unmistakably true." I'm just going along with the idea. Now you seem to be saying, "Well, that idea cannot be true."

Doesn't that leave any "fisher of men" up the proverbial creek without a paddle?:)

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#51 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
My title says it all! I am a "Fisher of Men". I'm hiding nothing from that fact. If that is what you mean by troll, then I suppose I am. But I'm not sure what you mean by troll. Are you familiar with the Biblical reference to "Fisher of Men" and what that means?
I'm in search of people, atheist or whoever that have an open mind to the possibility of absolute truth and would like to explore that possibility with an open mind. I am fishing for unbelievers that will publicly acknowledge the possibility exist that Christianity is true according to the Bible. If your answer to my question, "If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?" is yes, then let's talk. But if your mind is made up and your answer to my question is, "NO" then just go away. I don't have time for you.
If I were to start a discussion on www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian asking whether they would become atheists if I could prove that Christianity was false, what do you think the reaction would be? Why do you suppose I don't do that? Why do I avoid posting on Christian forums at all? How do you see your activity as any different? Why do you think anyone here should take you seriously?

I don't belong on the Christian forum and you don't belong here.
Fisher of Men

Mansfield, OH

#52 Aug 16, 2014
Gillette wrote:
Why would that be important to God?
It would be important to me. I only want my wife to love me and me alone. If she chose me over all the other men, then she and I both know that she truly loves only me.
Gillette wrote:
Why not just love us and let us live and enjoy life, etc.? Isn't that how human parents treat their children? Unconditional love, without requiring that their sons and daughters "love them" in a certain way or show fealty or obedience, etc.?(Cf, Parable of the Prodigal Son, by the way)
That’s exactly what He is doing. You are free to live and enjoy your life any way you choose. And He absolutely loves you unconditionally. In fact according to the Bible, He loves you to the max. There is absolutely nothing you can do that will cause Him to love you any more or any less than He already does. It saddens Him that you have chosen to be His enemy. He gave you a choice and you have chosen. But He still maximizes His love upon you. I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that you can change your mind and turn back to Him. I know that you know this, because of your mention of the Prodigal Son.
Gillette wrote:
Why would we need to be mindless puppets (unless God wanted us to be)? We would simply see what is, the reality of God, and enjoy that together with God, in full consciousness and appreciation of him.

Who says there has to be a "choice" or that life is setup as a one-time, brief span on earth, with a life or death choice to be made on which eternal pleasure or eternal torture hinges?
I understand that that is the theology of your particular branch of Christianity, but not everyone sees the world and sees spiritual reality in this way.

Isn't one of your major problems and tasks getting other to see the world like you see the world? And they won't, will they? They will see the world like THEY see it, often as was taught to them as children, or as they have come to see it.
People by the thousands and turning daily from their childhood beliefs all over the world and are turning to Christ for salvation. Perhaps a greater part of the people of the world stick to their original beliefs but not all. Consider these facts as compiled by the joshuaproject.net . http://joshuaproject.net/assets/media/assets/...

: Every day another 40,000 people across the globe come to faith in Christ.

: An average of 3,500 new churches open every week around the world.

: Evangelicals numbered 89 million (2.9%) in 1960, but by 2010 they were 546 million (7.9%)!

The Great Commission is working just as God expected it to.
Fisher of Men

Mansfield, OH

#53 Aug 16, 2014
Gillette wrote:
There have been countless books written on the subject of supposed free will under the Christian God, and whether it exists or not and whether it even COULD exist or not. I'm sure you're aware of that.:)
I don’t agree with Calvin. You and I obviously have free will. You have chosen not to believe. I have chosen to believe. The Bible says we are all predestined to be children of God. It doesn’t say we are all predetermined to be or not to be children of God. You have a choice in choosing your final destiny.
Gillette wrote:
We see the world and reality differently, yes. The problem, as I see it, is when you intimate that I will be tortured forever by a loving God for seeing the world differently than you do.
It's as if I wear red glasses and you wear green ones. I'd insist the world has a red tint to it, and you would insist that it has a green cast.
Which one of us is right? NEITHER of us, right?:)
Firstly, one is not “tortured forever” for “seeing the world” differently. You know better than that. You have chosen to reject God and remain in your sin. That is why you are condemned to hell already. I have chosen to accept God and be forgiven for my sin. Hell awaits you! But heaven does too. Turn or burn Gill. To repent of sin means to turn away from sin. Do a u-turn. God has no desire for you to remain in your sin and burn forever. His desire is that you and all repent. Secondly, there is absolute truth. Only one of us is right.
Gillette wrote:
OK. But it was YOUR initial premise, i.e. "if Christianity were unmistakably true." I'm just going along with the idea. Now you seem to be saying, "Well, that idea cannot be true."
Doesn't that leave any "fisher of men" up the proverbial creek without a paddle?:)
My original question was quite simple,“If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian.” Even if one has doubts or one can not prove absolutely that Christianity is true, doesn’t mean that it isn’t true. An unbeliever looks at the same evidence as a believer. Faith is required for science and faith is required for Christianity. Quickly some of the arguments for the existence of God are, the Ontological argument, the transcendental argument, the Teleological argument, the Moral argument and the Cosmological argument. Not an exhaustive list. They can all be googled.
Fisher of Men

Mansfield, OH

#54 Aug 16, 2014
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
If I were to start a discussion on www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian asking whether they would become atheists if I could prove that Christianity was false, what do you think the reaction would be? Why do you suppose I don't do that? Why do I avoid posting on Christian forums at all? How do you see your activity as any different? Why do you think anyone here should take you seriously?
I don't belong on the Christian forum and you don't belong here.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha lol lol lol. You're quite the comedian aren't you? Seriously? My kind doesn't belong here lol.

Have you been to the Christian forum. Good luck finding a Christian there. There's more atheist than Christians there. Besides I've been there.

Listen, I'll tell you exactly why I belong here and everywhere. It's called the Great Commission Matt 28. God has commissioned me and all other Christians to "preach the good news to everyone everywhere." It is the human right to know Christ. Every person has the right to experience a clear and adequate presentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, even atheist. That's why I belong here.

So are you interested in becoming a Christian or not. FIRST, you have to admit that you have sinned against God. Can you do that.

Like I told you, if your mind is made up and you really really want to go to hell, then ok go to hell. You made your choice. Live with it. But don't cry about it.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#55 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be important to me. I only want my wife to love me and me alone. If she chose me over all the other men, then she and I both know that she truly loves only me.
Two questions:

1.) Would you insist on controlling the ways in which your wife showed her love to you, or would you let HER demonstrate her love in whatever way(s) SHE thinks is appropriate?

2.) If you discovered that you wife, for some reason, no longer loved you as much as she did, or at all, would that give you the right to beat and torture her endlessly? Would that, in fact, be your only right and just option? Or would you just walk away and get on with your life without her?
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
You are free to live and enjoy your life any way you choose. And He absolutely loves you unconditionally.
How can you say he "loves me UNCONDITIONALLY" but then will torture me forever without ceasing if I don't return that love in just the right way?

You don't endlessly torture someone you love, do you? It VERY MUCH sounds like a conditional love your God has for me.

And by the way, what gets us into heaven? Loving and believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior? Or behaving morally and ethically in the best way we know how according to our own culture and religions? You seem to have indicated BOTH ways in your previous posts. Is that possible?
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
There is absolutely nothing you can do that will cause Him to love you any more or any less than He already does.
And yet he'll torture me forever if the right conditions are not met?((shakes head)))
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
It saddens Him that you have chosen to be His enemy. He gave you a choice and you have chosen.
I haven't chosen to be anyone's enemy, especially not God's.

And I'm unaware of ever being "given a choice" or having to "make a choice." That's something your theology teaches you to believe. It's not something I believe.

And if it indeed "saddens" God (as if such a thing were possible) that "I'm his enemy," why is his only possible response to burn and torture me forever without ceasing? Why not just let me go and let me live my life the way I have chosen to do so, without interfering?(again, cf. Jesus' Parable of the Prodigal Son).
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
People by the thousands and turning daily from their childhood beliefs all over the world and are turning to Christ for salvation.
And it goes the other way too. Millions of westerners have set aside the Christianity of their youth to embrace Islam (world's fastest growing religion), Buddhism, various forms of Hinduism, etc.
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#57 Aug 16, 2014
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
We have a real life. My life is fantastic! Great girlfriend, wonderful family, achieving my dream. I'm only 1 in 2billion Christians who have a life.
Posting in atheist forums is achieving your dream?

All the time spent here is keeping you away from your charming girlfriend and family.

Have you told them of your posting activities here and how much time you spend in atheist forums?

Not so fast...
If you are Catholic you're in one 1.2 billion.
If you're not Catholic 1 billion.
Islam has 2.1 billion followers.

You've probably got the wrong mythology!
Hare Krishna

"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you." -- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India, circa 3000 BCE

Hmm...
This is not a original concept unique to Christianity.
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#58 Aug 16, 2014
Fisher of Men wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha ha ha ha ha ha lol lol lol. You're quite the comedian aren't you? Seriously? My kind doesn't belong here lol.
Have you been to the Christian forum. Good luck finding a Christian there. There's more atheist than Christians there. Besides I've been there.
Listen, I'll tell you exactly why I belong here and everywhere. It's called the Great Commission Matt 28. God has commissioned me and all other Christians to "preach the good news to everyone everywhere." It is the human right to know Christ. Every person has the right to experience a clear and adequate presentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, even atheist. That's why I belong here.
So are you interested in becoming a Christian or not. FIRST, you have to admit that you have sinned against God. Can you do that.
Like I told you, if your mind is made up and you really really want to go to hell, then ok go to hell. You made your choice. Live with it. But don't cry about it.
Actually it's your duty to convert Islam to Christianity. You are supposed to "spread the word" and have them share in the joy of Jesus.

But we know that you value keeping your head more than your devotion to Jesus' teachings.

You will not be able to convert any atheists... it's a waste of time.

At least you have a teeny tiny chance with the other religions

Allah Akbar! Infidel
CunningLinguist

Gainesville, FL

#59 Aug 16, 2014
Every now and then I am compelled to post this video.

Try not to laugh...

https://m.youtube.com/watch...

Do you have your seed ready?

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#60 Aug 16, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Posting in atheist forums is achieving your dream?
All the time spent here is keeping you away from your charming girlfriend and family.
Have you told them of your posting activities here and how much time you spend in atheist forums?
Not so fast...
If you are Catholic you're in one 1.2 billion.
If you're not Catholic 1 billion.
Islam has 2.1 billion followers.
You've probably got the wrong mythology!
Hare Krishna
"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you." -- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India, circa 3000 BCE
Hmm...
This is not a original concept unique to Christianity.
Actually, i only jot down here for like 10-20minutes 4-5days a week.
Also, Islam only has 1.8billion followers, not 2.1billion.
Thinking

Sidmouth, UK

#61 Aug 17, 2014
Heaven is for brain washed sycophants that can turn a blind eye to the suffering of others.

Plus the bible says its a war zone - not very heavenly!

Why would I want to go there?
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Why does God want you in heaven. Why would he want you. He created you and you are not even thankful to be given a life. There is no reason to let ignorant , arrogant fools into heaven. You don't appreciate what he did, so why should he let you wonderfully get a great life in heaven if you probably still won't even believe him after given you eternal ;life.
Thinking

Sidmouth, UK

#62 Aug 17, 2014
When putting forward a contrary position it helps if you use "reply" correctly.
NightSerf wrote:
Your question is unbelievably stupid--by definition, anyone who with no doubts that Christianity is true already identifies as a Christian. Of course, some people define "Christianity" and "Christian" more narrowly than others. Many don't think of Catholics as Christians, for instance, or believe that only members of their own sect or at least subscribe to the same credo qualify. To my way of thinking, though, all who believe that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah and try to follow his teachings as they understand them are Christians.
You are only the latest of many to post here with this approach. Why should anyone here bother with you? You're just another troll.
Thinking

Sidmouth, UK

#63 Aug 17, 2014
islam versus christianity is like two bald men fighting over a comb.
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, i only jot down here for like 10-20minutes 4-5days a week.
Also, Islam only has 1.8billion followers, not 2.1billion.

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