Aliens and evolution

Aliens and evolution

There are 6159 comments on the Washington Times story from Jun 19, 2012, titled Aliens and evolution. In it, Washington Times reports that:

DENTON, Texas, June 19, 2012 - Aliens are ingrained in our cultural psyche. They abound in books, movies, radio, and a thousand theories about the extra-terrestrial, little green men, UFO sightings, abductions, Area 51, and Roswell.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Washington Times.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#5478 Jan 13, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
From the catalog under "Bachelor of Science Degree, Biology Major": "All of our courses are taught within the context of biblical creation and offer a scientific and philosophical refutation of evolution." Majors are expected to "Evaluate the central concepts of neo-Darwinian evolution and present a biblical and refutation of these concepts." This is probably why BJU graduates have trouble getting into graduate programs in biological sciences.
Right, and students are still required to learn evolutionary theory, if only to know how to refute it from their faith.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#5479 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Right, and students are still required to learn evolutionary theory, if only to know how to refute it from their faith.
Would you agree, though, that BJU does not prepare any of its students to become first-rate biological scientists?

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#5480 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>No, she helped get the ICRC recognized by the US government and helped establish the American branch.
.
<quoted text>I'm not going to argue theology. I'll argue values; religions teach the value of charity.
.
<quoted text>I haven't incited hate; I just observed that atheists haven't built hospitals, orphanages or universities and religions have.
.
<quoted text>It's good that humanists give to religious organizations because they haven't done much to build similar secular charities.
Religions, especially Christianity, do indeed teach charity as a value at lest as well and probably better then any other organization. But the reason that atheists have not built hospitals, orphanages, or universities to any noticeable extent is that these feats are accomplished mainly by large organizations that include these tasks among their missions. Atheists don't tend to build the requisite organizations. The few atheist/humanist organizations that do exist in the U.S. combine to include less than 10% of the atheist population. Religious organizations, on the other hand, combine to include about 50% of American believers, roughly 45% of the population. They have the means to build great humanitarian institutions. Atheists do not. There is no way to determine how they would apply themselves if they were more numerous and better organized. I can't speak for other atheists, but I give to religious charities that perform worthy tasks. For me, the work matters more than the motivation for doing it.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#5481 Jan 13, 2013
Bob Jones University is a religious school, not an accredited college. Here's it's mission and goals:

Mission
Within the cultural and academic soil of liberal arts higher education, Bob Jones University exists to grow Christlike character that is scripturally disciplined, others-serving, God-loving, Christ-proclaiming and focused above.

Institutional Goals
To inspire regenerated students to know, love and serve Jesus Christ.
To strengthen each student’s belief in the truths of God’s Word.
To develop in students Christlike character through disciplined, Spirit-filled living.
To direct students toward a biblical life view that integrates God’s Truth into practical Christian living.
To prepare students to excel intellectually and vocationally by offering diverse academic programs rooted in biblical truth and centered on a liberal arts core.
To develop in students the cultural breadth and social skills that enhance their lives and also equip them to communicate biblical truth effectively.
To instill in students a compelling concern for reaching the unconverted with the saving truth of the gospel of Christ.
To implant in students an eagerness for vital involvement in the life and ministry of a biblically faithful local congregation.
To develop educational materials and services that extend these objectives beyond the university campus.

http://www.bju.edu/about-bju/mission-goals.ph...

“Just because it is possible”

Since: Jan 11

Doesn't mean it will happen.

#5482 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>You can't 'do the math' because the variables are conjecture, not based on any evidence. The only thing we know for certain; life exists on Earth. There is no scientific evidence of life existing anywhere else in the universe.
.
<quoted text>Nor is there any evidence of God. Belief in alien life is as faith based as belief in God.
Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I don't know whether there is alien life out there or not. But you already said there is a certain probability. Are you now taking that back.

All I am saying that if we develop the technology for travel even within our own solar system we can look and see and that is a better chance than looking for evidence of the existence of a god. Are you claiming to know where a god hangs out that we can look and see?

You get very riled up about these speculative things. Don't take it so seriously.

“Just because it is possible”

Since: Jan 11

Doesn't mean it will happen.

#5483 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Bob Jones University is a religious school, not an accredited college. Here's it's mission and goals:
Mission
Within the cultural and academic soil of liberal arts higher education, Bob Jones University exists to grow Christlike character that is scripturally disciplined, others-serving, God-loving, Christ-proclaiming and focused above.
Institutional Goals
To inspire regenerated students to know, love and serve Jesus Christ.
To strengthen each student’s belief in the truths of God’s Word.
To develop in students Christlike character through disciplined, Spirit-filled living.
To direct students toward a biblical life view that integrates God’s Truth into practical Christian living.
To prepare students to excel intellectually and vocationally by offering diverse academic programs rooted in biblical truth and centered on a liberal arts core.
To develop in students the cultural breadth and social skills that enhance their lives and also equip them to communicate biblical truth effectively.
To instill in students a compelling concern for reaching the unconverted with the saving truth of the gospel of Christ.
To implant in students an eagerness for vital involvement in the life and ministry of a biblically faithful local congregation.
To develop educational materials and services that extend these objectives beyond the university campus.
http://www.bju.edu/about-bju/mission-goals.ph...
I'm confused as to the direction this thread is taking. Has someone made a claim that Bob Jones is run by aliens?

“Just because it is possible”

Since: Jan 11

Doesn't mean it will happen.

#5484 Jan 13, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
Religions, especially Christianity, do indeed teach charity as a value at lest as well and probably better then any other organization. But the reason that atheists have not built hospitals, orphanages, or universities to any noticeable extent is that these feats are accomplished mainly by large organizations that include these tasks among their missions. Atheists don't tend to build the requisite organizations. The few atheist/humanist organizations that do exist in the U.S. combine to include less than 10% of the atheist population. Religious organizations, on the other hand, combine to include about 50% of American believers, roughly 45% of the population. They have the means to build great humanitarian institutions. Atheists do not. There is no way to determine how they would apply themselves if they were more numerous and better organized. I can't speak for other atheists, but I give to religious charities that perform worthy tasks. For me, the work matters more than the motivation for doing it.
I pretty much agree with this and it addresses those who are going to use the lack of atheist charitable organizations as some sort of litmus test of atheist values.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#5485 Jan 13, 2013
Hmmm... this thread left the topic of aliens long ago. Topix threads rarely stay on the original topic for long. They meander as responses to responses carry them in new directions and as one topic after another is exhausted. In this, it follows the patterns of real-life discussions. Given that, the best approach is to get a sense of what's being discussed now so that you can participate in real time, if you know what I mean.

I left this thread when it became hopelessly mired in an argument about which there was nothing new to add. Now it seems to have a new topic and some new life. Thats fine by me.

“Just because it is possible”

Since: Jan 11

Doesn't mean it will happen.

#5486 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Right, and students are still required to learn evolutionary theory, if only to know how to refute it from their faith.
That isn't a very sound basis for a science curriculum, but it does fit with the anti-science stand of many fundamentalists of today.

“Just because it is possible”

Since: Jan 11

Doesn't mean it will happen.

#5487 Jan 13, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
Hmmm... this thread left the topic of aliens long ago. Topix threads rarely stay on the original topic for long. They meander as responses to responses carry them in new directions and as one topic after another is exhausted. In this, it follows the patterns of real-life discussions. Given that, the best approach is to get a sense of what's being discussed now so that you can participate in real time, if you know what I mean.
I left this thread when it became hopelessly mired in an argument about which there was nothing new to add. Now it seems to have a new topic and some new life. Thats fine by me.
I was just being a bit facetious. I agree with what you say about threads drifting or meandering. I have seen that sometimes it results in positive developments on a thread as you point out.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5488 Jan 13, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you regularily hallucinate and then enter this forum?
Is this chosen your strawman today? I guess you've exhausted calling people moon deniers and YECs.
I'm sorry that you don't understand science and probably can't accept / understand evolution, but this really is your problem's problem.
Hey Skip you don't understand science period, much less evolution in particular. That's why you don't even bother to debate the subject even with dumb as a post fundies.

Probably because you and they have something in common.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5489 Jan 13, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no such thing as god, and you're not going to make god magically appear ever, because its an impossibility.
How did you work that one out, Skip? Oh right, you didn't.

“Just because it is possible”

Since: Jan 11

Doesn't mean it will happen.

#5490 Jan 13, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
Hmmm... this thread left the topic of aliens long ago. Topix threads rarely stay on the original topic for long. They meander as responses to responses carry them in new directions and as one topic after another is exhausted. In this, it follows the patterns of real-life discussions. Given that, the best approach is to get a sense of what's being discussed now so that you can participate in real time, if you know what I mean.
I left this thread when it became hopelessly mired in an argument about which there was nothing new to add. Now it seems to have a new topic and some new life. Thats fine by me.
I was just being a bit facetious. I agree that threads tend to drift or meander. I myself have seen this meandering be of positive benefit to the thread, just as you indicate. I think suppressing that drift would end up being counter productive.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5491 Jan 13, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Capital letters, the refuge of an argument loser...
No, when the post is ALL CAPS then it's usually the rantings of a fundie nutcase. Or a Poe. However there is also the specific usage of caps to emphasize certain words which cannot be italicized due to the limitations of the forum.

If he made an ALL CAPS post with no argument then maybe you'd have a point. But as he didn't do that and presented an argument instead your portrayal of his post was incorrect. You can dispute this by putting forth a coherent argument.

Jesus will come back first.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5492 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Right, aliens could exist and so could God.
However, belief in alien life is based on faith, not evidence. Just as belief in God is based on faith, not logical proof or scientific evidence.
Unfortunately for you bub, aliens have one distinct advantage - they are a potentially falsifiable concept. Scientifically speaking that puts them light years ahead of your baseless religious beliefs.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5493 Jan 13, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
Bacteria are proven to exist on other planets - its science that proved it.
First of all I'm not sure that's correct. I recall the Mars rock from a few years ago but NASA dispute the find. So far I don't think they have found bacteria native to other worlds, but they have found that bacteria native to Earth can still survive.

Either way it's all moot, as bacteria do not exist because they were non-falsifiable before the invention of the microscope - according to the Skippy scientific method. Also aliens quite simply **do not exist**- according to the Skippy scientific method.

So this next part is rather interesting:
-Skeptic- wrote:
If you're talking about little green men, even that is more statistically likely than an impossible and disproven god.
Don't you find it rather disingenuous you arguing with a donut like Brian and claiming that your postulation which has no evidence is better than his postulation which has no evidence, especially in light of the fact that according to your own "methodology" neither of them exist full stop?
-Skeptic- wrote:
Atheists don't convince themselves of anything, reality, evidence and facts reveal the true nature of the world and we prove it every single day with every new piece of knowledge advancing human understanding.
Yes.

Like the Raellians.

So since you're an atheist and fundie who is espousing the possibility of aliens would you happen to be a Raellian?
-Skeptic- wrote:
This all happens while primitive people point and clutch their rag books full of ignorance, hatred, immorality and lies, and try to tell us this is the answer to the universe....
Okay, so Bri is as dishonest as they come, but why are you, a known and confirmed liar accusing other people of lying?
-Skeptic- wrote:
There is no substitute for science.
Sure there is! There's the Skippy "scientific" method!!! Nothing exists unless evidence is presented! If no evidence is presented then it does not exist!

Can't beat that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5494 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I've never posted anything about creationism; I've posted about critical thinking. I support I support critical thinking in education and science.
No you don't. Which is why you were a Ricky Santorum fan and promoted religious apologetics in public schools. Though that may have just been a means to an end cuz your real problem is gays having equal rights, right? And who cares if science education goes out the window in the meantime.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5495 Jan 13, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Alien life is plausible - there's no evidence against it and plenty that supports it.
2. God is impossible - there is and never has been any evidence for it existing & there's lot of evidence against it existing. The main problem is that the defition refers to something meaningless.
1 - Plausible, but so far all the evidence is Terran-centric.

2 - Impossibility is an absolute, something which science does not deal with due to science relying on the concept of potential falsifiability. But since you claim to have evidence against such an entity existing then I ask again for you to explain the scientific test you performed that falsified it.

3 - You will respond the same way as usual, with ad-homs and zero coherent arguments.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5496 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I don't care why a person does good work as much as I care that he does good work. If someone does good work because they want to avoid hell and go to heaven; I'm just happy that they do good. This is where we differ.
Bingo. This IS where we differ. There's goodness for the sake of it, or goodness done merely for personal gain. In my view that is not "good".
Brian_G wrote:
Abolitionism was led by religious people. Name an atheist organization that has done such good. Name the hospitals, orphanages, homeless shelters, food lines and philanthropic organizations built and run by atheists; cite their good works.
Until those atheists can compete with religions; I support religion.
Since atheism is mere statement of a lack of belief for something which there is no evidence it lacks motivation to do good works "in the name of atheism". To do so would merely be to want to take credit, which appears to be the Christian motivation. So in effect the numerous non-religious charitable organisations could be described as "atheistic", as they are doing good works without a need for religious motivation.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#5497 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Religions help teach how to become a better person.
Religions help teach how all those who do not share their beliefs are lesser people.
Brian_G wrote:
Atheism can't do that.
Atheism can't teach you how to be a better cook either. So what's the problem?(shrug)

Don't criticize spoons for not helping us carry battleships.

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