Aliens and evolution

Jun 19, 2012 Full story: Washington Times 6,101

DENTON, Texas, June 19, 2012 - Aliens are ingrained in our cultural psyche. They abound in books, movies, radio, and a thousand theories about the extra-terrestrial, little green men, UFO sightings, abductions, Area 51, and Roswell.

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Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5195 Jan 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Proven liar. Post disregarded.
Kitty, you can't just proclaim everyone a liar when they get the better of you.

It loses all meaning after the 500th time you do it.

Figure out a new tactic.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5196 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Kitty, you can't just proclaim everyone a liar when they get the better of you.
It loses all meaning after the 500th time you do it.
Figure out a new tactic.
Then perhaps they should refrain from lying, no?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#5197 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Re-read what I wrote.
"there there _COULD_ be alien life out there"
As for my math:
Recent reports put the number of planets in our galaxy ~ 150 billion.
One estimate of number of galaxies is 125 billion.
Assuming we're "average", that's a hell of a lot of planets.
And, as we've already seen in our own solar system, there could be any number of moons which might be suitable for life as we know it.
And that's not taking into account possible life beyond what we know can exist.
That puts the number of locations that could potentially harbor some form of life well about the capacity for Topix to allow me to type out the number.
That means that unless the odds for life existing are actually zero (and we know they aren't - since we exist), the math says that somewhere out there there is a planet or moon or comet or nebulous cloud or whatever that harbors some other form of life.
So, just going off the math, life _could_ exist elsewhere in the Universe and likely does.
From Fox News no less:
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/12/28/fir...

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5198 Jan 6, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
You can't misdiret the discussion. The fact is you're a liar lying about a god you have no proof of.
I've made no claim about God on this thread; we're discussing aliens and evolution. Please try to keep up.

I've made claims about belief in God; that's based on faith, not evidence or logic. If you think I'm mistaken, prove it.

I believe many radical secularists haven't thought through their opinions so they resort to defamation. Instead of calling my opponents liars, I think they may be mistaken. This is where we differ.

.
-Skeptic- wrote:
You can talk about aliens all you like, but your opinions on any matter are considered worthless until you're able to prove your god.
I have no intention of proving God's existence. If you're bothered because this thread discusses aliens and evolution; that's your problem.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5199 Jan 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Then perhaps they should refrain from lying, no?
Except that you use "liar" in a full 50% of your posts even when the person it's lying.

You've called me a liar when I've asked you a question.
You've proclaimed me a liar when I've quoted you directly.
You declared I was a liar when I posted links you disagreed with.

If you can't think of something to say, just don't hit reply. Replying with "You're a liar" _every__time__someone__posts_ makes the word meaningless

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5200 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
Re-read what I wrote. "there there _COULD_ be alien life out there"
No argument, there _COULD_ be alien life out there, dragons or God. There's no evidence, but alien life could exist.

.
Nuggin wrote:
As for my math: Recent reports put the number of planets in our galaxy ~ 150 billion. One estimate of number of galaxies is 125 billion. Assuming we're "average", that's a hell of a lot of planets.
Why do you assume we're "average"? Certainly, observations of this solar system show we aren't.

That assumption is based on faith, not science.

.
Nuggin wrote:
And, as we've already seen in our own solar system, there could be any number of moons which might be suitable for life as we know it.
Yet, there's no evidence of life in our solar system.

.
Nuggin wrote:
And that's not taking into account possible life beyond what we know can exist.
This statement seems to affirm belief in the supernatural.

.
Nuggin wrote:
That puts the number of locations that could potentially harbor some form of life well about the capacity for Topix to allow me to type out the number.
Use scientific notation.

.
Nuggin wrote:
That means that unless the odds for life existing are actually zero (and we know they aren't - since we exist), the math says that somewhere out there there is a planet or moon or comet or nebulous cloud or whatever that harbors some other form of life.
I disagree; we don't have enough information to claim the existence of extraterrestrial life. Your math is based on Drake's Equation, the variables are based on conjecture so the math is meaningless.

.
Nuggin wrote:
So, just going off the math, life _could_ exist elsewhere in the Universe and likely does.
N.'s belief that extraterrestrial life likely exists is based on faith, not science. The belief that life 'could' exist is based on science; we don't have enough evidence to show extraterrestrial life does exist.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5201 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
Except that you use "liar" in a full 50% of your posts even when the person it's lying.
You've called me a liar when I've asked you a question.
You've proclaimed me a liar when I've quoted you directly.
You declared I was a liar when I posted links you disagreed with.
If you can't think of something to say, just don't hit reply. Replying with "You're a liar" _every__time__someone__posts_ makes the word meaningless
I agree with your observation.

I think most radical secularists don't understand how much faith plays in their thinking so when faced with contrary information they defame the messenger. Ad hoc accusations aren't science or logic.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5202 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that you use "liar" in a full 50% of your posts even when the person it's lying.
You've called me a liar when I've asked you a question.
You've proclaimed me a liar when I've quoted you directly.
You declared I was a liar when I posted links you disagreed with.
If you can't think of something to say, just don't hit reply. Replying with "You're a liar" _every__time__someone__posts_ makes the word meaningless
Did you not stop to think that perhaps it is because I grow weary of the liars that I would decide to instead let them know that their lies have ultimately destroyed their credibility?

I called you a liar for twisting my words, and here you demonstrate that you are so much in the habit of lying that you cannot even get a simple fact like that correct.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5203 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I agree with your observation.
I think most radical secularists don't understand how much faith plays in their thinking so when faced with contrary information they defame the messenger. Ad hoc accusations aren't science or logic.
You pay very little attention to what is going on. This does not surprise me, just mentioning that you should before you dig yourself a hole you cannot claw out of.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5204 Jan 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
1. It is, though it was after the fact since "love" is simply the label we gave the response to the chemical reactions, which were observable long before we understood them. But there is now testable data.
Show me the chemical formula for love. Prove it exists.

.
KittenKoder wrote:
2. Those aren't "atmospheres" by the same type, they are actually loose particulates, not gasses, that make those dense. Try harder. The atmosphere of Venus is 6.25% liquid water. Neptune also has a crushing gravity, and is massive compared to the Earth, density, and it's frozen so life would not likely live there. If you don't want to learn, then stop pretending you do.
In the first sentence, K.K. claims Venus has no atmosphere, in the next it does.

There is no scientific evidence of extraterrestrial life therefor belief in aliens is based on faith, not science.

.
KittenKoder wrote:
3. Nope, it's basic math. The majority content of a given population will hold the majority of all aspects of that population by default.
By that logic, it's probable that K.K. is a Christian. I know that's untrue therefor the logic is flawed.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5205 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Why do you assume we're "average"? Certainly, observations of this solar system show we aren't.
That assumption is based on faith, not science.
Actually, it's based on math. Like all things, the variety of solar systems would fall into a bell curve. The majority of things in that curve would be in the middle (average).

The observations we've made are based on our ability to detect. The largest planets being the easiest to detect.

This is sort of like looking a a field and counting the horses but ignoring the mice and determining that the average number of animals per 100 ft is 1.

Still our observations have turned up hundreds of planets, dozens of which are rocky, "earth-like", and in the "goldilocks zone".

Though I still assert that life could exist far outside of this zone. Europa being a candidate which could demonstrate that.
Yet, there's no evidence of life in our solar system.
Categorically false.
I disagree; we don't have enough information to claim the existence of extraterrestrial life. Your math is based on Drake's Equation, the variables are based on conjecture so the math is meaningless.
Actually, my math isn't based on Drake. It's based on what we know about the number of planets in our galaxy and the number of galaxies in the Universe.

Drake takes into account more variables than are necessary to make a forecast.

Life does exist, so we know the probability of life is greater than zero.

We can assess the number of trials by looking at all possible places and times in which life could occur.

Then we can compare the number of trials vs the probability and make an educated determination that, in all likelihood, there is life somewhere out there.

Will we ever find it? Probably not. Life on the other side of our galaxy is probably too far away for us to ever detect. Life in another galaxy is absolutely beyond our capacity and likely will remain so longer than humanity will be around.
N.'s belief that extraterrestrial life likely exists is based on faith, not science. The belief that life 'could' exist is based on science; we don't have enough evidence to show extraterrestrial life does exist.
Actually, that's also not accurate.

You can say that we don't have evidence of life of extraterrestrial origin existing.

We do have evidence of extraterrestrial life. We've put living things on the moon. We've undoubtedly brought life to Mars with one, if not more, of our probes.

Life has journeyed beyond Earth and is therefore "extraterrestrial".

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5206 Jan 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you not stop to think that perhaps it is because I grow weary of the liars that I would decide to instead let them know that their lies have ultimately destroyed their credibility?
I called you a liar for twisting my words, and here you demonstrate that you are so much in the habit of lying that you cannot even get a simple fact like that correct.
See. This is what I'm talking about.

When you get confronted on your actions, rather than actually present a case, you simply proclaim "Well, he's a liar."

That's not how a man would debate. It's not how an educated person would debate.

And it's not "Twisting" your words to DIRECTLY quote you.

It's not a lie to post a link that refutes your claims.

It's not a lie to hold you accountable for your posts.

And it's not a lie to point out that calling everyone a liar all the time just makes you sound like a whiny little girl who shouldn't be taken seriously.

If you want to participate, then participate. If you want to complain about how unfair it is that the boys won't take you seriously, then understand that we've heard it already.

We aren't going to change our opinion of your ability until you start to demonstrate that you can actually live up to what you believe you are capable of.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#5207 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, it's based on math. Like all things, the variety of solar systems would fall into a bell curve. The majority of things in that curve would be in the middle (average).
The observations we've made are based on our ability to detect. The largest planets being the easiest to detect.
This is sort of like looking a a field and counting the horses but ignoring the mice and determining that the average number of animals per 100 ft is 1.
Still our observations have turned up hundreds of planets, dozens of which are rocky, "earth-like", and in the "goldilocks zone".
Though I still assert that life could exist far outside of this zone. Europa being a candidate which could demonstrate that.
<quoted text>
Categorically false.
<quoted text>
Actually, my math isn't based on Drake. It's based on what we know about the number of planets in our galaxy and the number of galaxies in the Universe.
Drake takes into account more variables than are necessary to make a forecast.
Life does exist, so we know the probability of life is greater than zero.
We can assess the number of trials by looking at all possible places and times in which life could occur.
Then we can compare the number of trials vs the probability and make an educated determination that, in all likelihood, there is life somewhere out there.
Will we ever find it? Probably not. Life on the other side of our galaxy is probably too far away for us to ever detect. Life in another galaxy is absolutely beyond our capacity and likely will remain so longer than humanity will be around.
<quoted text>
Actually, that's also not accurate.
You can say that we don't have evidence of life of extraterrestrial origin existing.
We do have evidence of extraterrestrial life. We've put living things on the moon. We've undoubtedly brought life to Mars with one, if not more, of our probes.
Life has journeyed beyond Earth and is therefore "extraterrestrial".
Cept nugatory , you forgot to throw your own monkey wrench in.
What if?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5208 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
In the first sentence, K.K. claims Venus has no atmosphere, in the next it does.
Understand that a good portion of this thread has been dedicated to determining the criteria for godhood and that references to Thor, Zeus, Vishnu, etc have been common place.

Perhaps she means that Venus, the Roman goddess, has no atmosphere but that the planet Venus does.

She had a tendency to pop in with non-sequiturs that don't contribute or refute what's being discussed.

She just likes to be heard.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5209 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
By that logic, it's probable that K.K. is a Christian. I know that's untrue therefor the logic is flawed.
Actually, that's not untrue.

It is probable that she is a Christian.
Even if she isn't actually one.

Probability contains both the odds of something being one way AND the odds of it being another way.

So, it is probable that KK is a Christian. If she isn't one, that doesn't mean that the probability was wrong. It means that she's a member of the smaller set.

People do win at the casino from time to time.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5210 Jan 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Show me the chemical formula for love. Prove it exists.
.
<quoted text>In the first sentence, K.K. claims Venus has no atmosphere, in the next it does.
There is no scientific evidence of extraterrestrial life therefor belief in aliens is based on faith, not science.
.
<quoted text>By that logic, it's probable that K.K. is a Christian. I know that's untrue therefor the logic is flawed.
Strawman, nothing more. So all you have are fallacies now. Good, that means you are at a loss and are incapable of defending your position.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5211 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
See. This is what I'm talking about.
When you get confronted on your actions, rather than actually present a case, you simply proclaim "Well, he's a liar."
That's not how a man would debate. It's not how an educated person would debate.
And it's not "Twisting" your words to DIRECTLY quote you.
It's not a lie to post a link that refutes your claims.
It's not a lie to hold you accountable for your posts.
And it's not a lie to point out that calling everyone a liar all the time just makes you sound like a whiny little girl who shouldn't be taken seriously.
If you want to participate, then participate. If you want to complain about how unfair it is that the boys won't take you seriously, then understand that we've heard it already.
We aren't going to change our opinion of your ability until you start to demonstrate that you can actually live up to what you believe you are capable of.
So you as well have nothing more than fallacies and dishonesty left. This is a good day to be me.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5212 Jan 6, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you as well have nothing more than fallacies and dishonesty left. This is a good day to be me.
And again.
No examples. No references.
Just you saying "Boys are big mean liars and it's not fair!"

It's weak. It perpetuates a stereotype that you are already complaining that we observe.

IF you think someone has lied, then demonstrate that by pointing out the specific lie and offering evidence that proves your assertion.

Just blanketing every post with the response: "Liar! Liar! Liar!" tells people not to take you seriously.

“The Intrepid”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#5213 Jan 6, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Kitty, you can't just proclaim everyone a liar when they get the better of you.
It loses all meaning after the 500th time you do it.
Figure out a new tactic.
He's been posting that "Proven liar" reply at me all day. It must be all that estrogen he's taking to help him grow a pair. xD

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5214 Jan 6, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>He's been posting that "Proven liar" reply at me all day. It must be all that estrogen he's taking to help him grow a pair. xD
What would a thing like you know about estrogen? Things like you don't even know what it means to think.

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