Aliens and evolution

Jun 19, 2012 Full story: Washington Times 6,103

DENTON, Texas, June 19, 2012 - Aliens are ingrained in our cultural psyche. They abound in books, movies, radio, and a thousand theories about the extra-terrestrial, little green men, UFO sightings, abductions, Area 51, and Roswell.

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“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4727 Dec 20, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple of things:
First, your link provides definitions which are the opposite of your claim. You should read your link.
Second, the term "slave" does not apply to the ants. There are species of ants which raid other ant hives and steal the larvae. Those larvae hatch and those ants work for the colony even though they are technically a different species.
There are not slaves because -
- They are not a different social status than the other worker ants they are with
- They are not the same species, it would at best be a form of domestication
- All ants save the queen and a few males are non-reproductive drones. These are not "multi-generational" .
- Ants lack an economic system, there is no trade in slaves, no term of service. They could be considered "captives" and it's true that some human societies have captured slaves, however those slaves are not equal members of that society, they are property.
You are 0 for two , there are slave maker ants.
Guess what ? They are all ants and no uncles.

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent525/close/...

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4728 Dec 20, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>No, I was trying to establish slavery as being a type of entity, like the concept of "government" is an entity. You can't put either in a box but each exists, objectively, in the mind of the master, slave or someone contemplating the subject.
Let's be clear.

When you say: "It exists objectively in the mind..."

What you mean is: "It exists _subjectively_"

They are opposites.

A chair is objectively real. It exists regardless of someone else thinking about it.

A concept is not objectively real. If someone doesn't think it, it doesn't exist.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#4729 Dec 20, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Me too. You bring the saran wrap and I'll get the rubber bands and spatula.
Aw.. you remembered.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#4730 Dec 20, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's be clear.
When you say: "It exists objectively in the mind..."
What you mean is: "It exists _subjectively_"
They are opposites.
A chair is objectively real. It exists regardless of someone else thinking about it.
A concept is not objectively real. If someone doesn't think it, it doesn't exist.
So you believe that ants don't think? Prove it.

Are you saying you believe it's impossible that an extraterrestrial species could extract the concept of slavery from a deceased human's brain? It might have the ability to extract that bit of information from the dust itself for all we know.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#4731 Dec 20, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's be clear.
When you say: "It exists objectively in the mind..."
What you mean is: "It exists _subjectively_"
They are opposites.
A chair is objectively real. It exists regardless of someone else thinking about it.
A concept is not objectively real. If someone doesn't think it, it doesn't exist.
There are different kinds of entities, slavery is both... physical and conceptual; subjective and objective. It is actual AND conceivable.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#4732 Dec 20, 2012
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Aw.. you remembered.
Yeah.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#4733 Dec 21, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's be clear.
When you say: "It exists objectively in the mind..."
What you mean is: "It exists _subjectively_"
They are opposites.
A chair is objectively real. It exists regardless of someone else thinking about it.
A concept is not objectively real. If someone doesn't think it, it doesn't exist.
You seem to take all that is intelligent, correct and factual and take a huge sh*t all over it.

When people ask you to clean up your sh*t, you start arguing back, like the sh*t was already there before you came.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#4734 Dec 21, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to take all that is intelligent, correct and factual and take a huge sh*t all over it.
When people ask you to clean up your sh*t, you start arguing back, like the sh*t was already there before you came.
Ahh shaddap Skip.(shrug)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#4735 Dec 21, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>No?
" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/entity" ;
As long as it exists in the mind it is real, it exists as information that can be retrieved from it.
BTW, there are ants that enslave other ants.
So that means that fairy godmothers are real too. Good to know.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4736 Dec 21, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>So you believe that ants don't think? Prove it.
How did you get that from this sentence: "A chair is physically real, it exists whether or not someone thinks about it" ?

I mean, MAYBE with a letter scrambler you can get close, but you're obviously going off the deep end.
Are you saying you believe it's impossible that an extraterrestrial species could extract the concept of slavery from a deceased human's brain? It might have the ability to extract that bit of information from the dust itself for all we know.
Whoa! Talk about desperately reaching and special pleading!

SP #1
There are aliens
SP #2
They come to Earth
SP #3
They have "extract information from dead people" technology
SP #4
They use this technology to figure out "slavery".

That would STILL be an intelligence _thinking_ about the _concept_ of slavery. It would not make it an objectively real object. It would SUBJECTIVE to the people who are thinking about it.

Even if those "people" are ET.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4737 Dec 21, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>There are different kinds of entities, slavery is both... physical and conceptual; subjective and objective. It is actual AND conceivable.
Nope.

If it's PHYSICALLY real, then go get a box of slavery, take a picture of it and give us a link.

See if you can get a new slavery and a used slavery so we can see the difference. That would be super helpful.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4738 Dec 21, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
How did you get that from this sentence: "A chair is physically real, it exists whether or not someone thinks about it" ?
I mean, MAYBE with a letter scrambler you can get close, but you're obviously going off the deep end.
<quoted text>
Whoa! Talk about desperately reaching and special pleading!
SP #1
There are aliens
SP #2
They come to Earth
SP #3
They have "extract information from dead people" technology
SP #4
They use this technology to figure out "slavery".
That would STILL be an intelligence _thinking_ about the _concept_ of slavery. It would not make it an objectively real object. It would SUBJECTIVE to the people who are thinking about it.
Even if those "people" are ET.
No Nuggin the chair doesn't fly , it is however "a chair".

We know youwant the chair to fly, believe the chair can fly......

But it only flies when we ship it FED EX , hopefully it wont be
In castaway and with Tom Hanks best friend the a coconut for the next ten years.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4739 Dec 21, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Just because the abducted ants don't know that they are laboring to ensure the survival of an "alien" species does not make them less of a slave.
Then you are expanding the definition of slave to include everyone and everything.

You're adopted? You're a slave.
You live in a different country than where you great grandfather was born? Slave.
You took a job you like and get paid to work there but someone else also works there and you don't know their name? You're a slave.

Yawn. That sort of argument is something I expect from Skippy, not you.
The abductors "know" the abducted are slaves, so slavery is an entity in that society. The profit is in the survival of the abductors' spawn/colony.
You've made two big mistakes in this claim.

The first is that you assert what is on the minds of certain ants about certain other ants. You have no way of testing that, let alone confirming it.

The second is that you seem to think that if you COULD prove what an ant was thinking, it would manifest as a physically real object called a "slavery". Presumably this object would be small enough for an ant to move it.

How many slaveries can fit in a shoebox?
itsAliens

Florence, MA

#4740 Dec 21, 2012
in back of my house there are a series caves placed directly under the constellations. these caves go in a very long "trail" from the east coast into the central US and have been there for centuries- how do you explain the literally perfect placement of these caves do you think they were done by humans with very little technology? f*ckin aliens. have very weird markings on the rocks inside nothing ive seen but havent looked into those very much have however looked into the caves, they follow the constellations precisely. a friend of my family has done extensive research on this there is nothing on the internet it is all word of mouth but i have personally seen some of these caves and also a map- there have been many theories on this but how do you skeptic nonbelievers explain that away?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4741 Dec 21, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You are 0 for two , there are slave maker ants.
Guess what ? They are all ants and no uncles.
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent525/close/...
First of all, the fact that you bothered to look up this species of ants and provide a link as if I wasn't already completely familiar with them is really rather telling about your desperation and misunderstanding of our two positions in this debate.

Second, just because they have been named "Slave Makers" does not actually make them slave makes. There are also "fire ants" but they aren't made of fire.

Do you need me to find you a link that explains how we know that fire ants aren't made of fire? Or can you just trust me when I tell you, I know more about this than you do?

Yes, these ants kidnap larvae from other ant species.

You could just as easily call them "Foster home Ants" or "Adopter ants"

However, these kidnapped ants do not have a term of service, they do not have offspring which are slaves, they are not "owned" by the other ants who buy or sell them between colonies, the "master" ants do not behave any differently than the "slave" ants.

In short, the name is the only thing these ants have in common with any form of slavery practiced by humans.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4742 Dec 21, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to take all that is intelligent, correct and factual and take a huge sh*t all over it.
When people ask you to clean up your sh*t, you start arguing back, like the sh*t was already there before you came.
Ah, Skippy. Good to see you never change.

So, tell me. How _EXACTLY_ am I wrong about the difference between something being OBJECTIVE and SUBJECTIVE reality.

Is communism OBJECTIVELY real or SUBJECTIVELY real?
Is a chair OBJECTIVELY real or SUBJECTIVELY real?

Go on. For once try and answer a question.

Nah, just kidding. We know you can't.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#4743 Dec 21, 2012
itsAliens wrote:
in back of my house there are a series caves placed directly under the constellations. these caves go in a very long "trail" from the east coast into the central US and have been there for centuries- how do you explain the literally perfect placement of these caves do you think they were done by humans with very little technology? f*ckin aliens. have very weird markings on the rocks inside nothing ive seen but havent looked into those very much have however looked into the caves, they follow the constellations precisely. a friend of my family has done extensive research on this there is nothing on the internet it is all word of mouth but i have personally seen some of these caves and also a map- there have been many theories on this but how do you skeptic nonbelievers explain that away?
I saw Prometheus too.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4744 Dec 21, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> No Nuggin the chair doesn't fly , it is however "a chair".
You start with the word "no". That implies you disagree with my statement that a chair is an objectively real object.

To back up your claim that chairs are not objectively real, you claim that chairs do not fly. That's not really on topic or persuasive.

You offer a second bit of evidence that chairs are not objectively real by stating that they are chairs. That doesn't help your argument, nor does it inform you position.

I've requested that you get the help of someone for whom English is a primary language. Your lack of reading comprehension and your inability to express a point in a rational way is making it very difficult to carry on any sort of meaningful debate with you.

Surely there must be an older kid in your school who can help you? A 5th grader maybe? Do schools in your country go up to the 5th grade?
In castaway and with Tom Hanks best friend the a coconut for the next ten years.
As I pointed out earlier, you shouldn't try and question me when it comes to topics relating to science. I'm going to offer an addendum to that:

Don't question me on movies. You will lose. Every time.

First of all, Tom Hanks is an actor. His character was Chuck Nolan.

Second, his friend "Wilson" was not a coconut, it was quite famously a ball. In fact, the BRAND of the ball was.... can you guess? I'll give you a hint. "Wilson".

Side note: His dentist who later stole his girl was named Spalding and was played by Chris Noth.

Third, he wasn't on the island for 10 years. He was there for four years. Frankly, not enough time for his girl to get over him, move on and have kids with his dentist in my opinion.

And, for the record - saw the movie once in the theaters when it first came out. Haven't seen it since.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#4745 Dec 21, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you are expanding the definition of slave to include everyone and everything.
You're adopted? You're a slave.
You live in a different country than where you great grandfather was born? Slave.
You took a job you like and get paid to work there but someone else also works there and you don't know their name? You're a slave.
Yawn. That sort of argument is something I expect from Skippy, not you.
<quoted text>
You've made two big mistakes in this claim.
The first is that you assert what is on the minds of certain ants about certain other ants. You have no way of testing that, let alone confirming it.
The second is that you seem to think that if you COULD prove what an ant was thinking, it would manifest as a physically real object called a "slavery". Presumably this object would be small enough for an ant to move it.
How many slaveries can fit in a shoebox?
I wouldn't have minded being adopted and, yes, I have been a slave. Literally.

BTW, I don't need to prove that abduction is a result of instinct instead of cognitive thinking. It's obvious that at some point an ant saw abduction to ensure survival as a good idea and shared it with the rest of the colony. They didn't wait for a beneficial mutation or a message from heaven.

All creatures are slaves of their own desires; some more than others.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#4746 Dec 21, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So that means that fairy godmothers are real too. Good to know.
Nobody believes in fairy godmothers. Every kid is told that the story is a fairy tale.

Oh yeah, you might want to take of that 5 O'clock shadow you got going on there.

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