Aliens and evolution

Jun 19, 2012 Full story: Washington Times 6,103

DENTON, Texas, June 19, 2012 - Aliens are ingrained in our cultural psyche. They abound in books, movies, radio, and a thousand theories about the extra-terrestrial, little green men, UFO sightings, abductions, Area 51, and Roswell.

Full Story

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4401 Dec 11, 2012
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>What is so hard to understand? He is saying that the BELIEF in god(s) is real not that there is an actual god(s).

On the contrary he has stated many times that belief makes the god real.

Quote Nuggin.

"And, for the record, I've already proven CONCLUSIVELY that gods did exist, particularly in Egypt (which is a REAL place) where they were known as Pharaohs."

Unquote

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TNK...

But I understand they existed in title and as a label.
But he purposes they were really gods because of their cult following made them so.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#4402 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary he has stated many times that belief makes the god real.
Quote Nuggin.
"And, for the record, I've already proven CONCLUSIVELY that gods did exist, particularly in Egypt (which is a REAL place) where they were known as Pharaohs."
Unquote
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TNK...
But I understand they existed in title and as a label.
But he purposes they were really gods because of their cult following made them so.
Like David Koresh..?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#4403 Dec 12, 2012
All three creationists desperately trying to lie about my beliefs and paint me as a fundie when they have

1. absolutely no proof of god whatsoever
2. no understanding of why god isn't real (logic, evidence rationality, science)
3. Continue to lie about atheists here in this forum and make accusations when they've lost their "arguments".

Continue your bullsh*t you f*cking idiots, Nuggin, Dude & the creationist Lil Ticked...

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#4404 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
God is real because the dictionary said so.
From here on in, this shall be labelled "The Nuggin Defence".

Self fulfilling prophesy anyone?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4405 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Just an FYI, if you ever develop a second brain cell perhaps then you could present a better argument than.
God is real because the dictionary said so.
Actually, you're confusing my position with your own.

You are the one arguing that Christianity is the one true religion and all others are fake.

I'm arguing that educated people are capable of identifying characteristics in various religions and labeling them independent personal beliefs.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4406 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary he has stated many times that belief makes the god real.
Quote Nuggin.
"And, for the record, I've already proven CONCLUSIVELY that gods did exist, particularly in Egypt (which is a REAL place) where they were known as Pharaohs."
Unquote
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TNK...
But I understand they existed in title and as a label.
But he purposes they were really gods because of their cult following made them so.
Let's address this for the one millionth time:
I understand they existed in title and as a label.
ALL gods exist in title and as a label. ALL of them.

THAT is my position. That has been my position for MONTHS. That has been YOUR position 5x now. Yet you keep going back on it.

Thor is a god in title.
Jesus is a god in title.
Vishnu is a god in title.
Coyote is a god in title.
Zeus is a god in title.

ALL of them are EQUALLY valid to carry the title "god".

Ramses is a god in title.

He, just like ALL the others, is EQUALLY valid to carry the title "god".

Just like Zeus, there was a group of people who belonged to a religion centered around him. They believed he had supernatural powers, they believed her required worship.

Ramses was a god.

The DIFFERENCE between Ramses and Zeus is this:

Zeus never actually existed.
Ramses did.

So, while Zeus and Ramses were both gods in title, the MAIN DIFFERENCE is that Ramses was ALSO real. He ACTUALLY EXISTED.

So, Ramses is an example of a god who ACTUALLY existed.

This is NOT that hard to grasp.

This is where you go back to your argument that Jesus is the only real god and that Ramses doesn't count because compared to Jesus he's a fake.
-OR-
You could simply admit that my position, which hasn't changed AT ALL since I first posted it, is right and has been right this entire time.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4407 Dec 12, 2012
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Like David Koresh..?
Yes.

David Koresh had a group of followers which believed he had supernatural powers and believed he required worship.

Therefore, like Zeus and Vishnu and Thor, David Koresh was a god.

Now, there were a lot less Branch Davidians than there are Hindus, but that doesn't really matter as far as determining the label.

Did Koresh actually have powers? Nope.
Did Thor actually have powers? Nope.
Actually having powers doesn't matter.

What matters is that people BELIEVE that he had powers.

So, Koresh can accurately be labeled at a god. In particular, the god of the Branch Davidian cult of Waco, Texas circa the 1990s.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4408 Dec 12, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
All three creationists desperately trying to lie about my beliefs and paint me as a fundie when they have
1. absolutely no proof of god whatsoever
My position is and has been that the label god applies to a number of different figures including Pharaohs.

I have given you conclusive proof that Pharaohs were real.

You have denied this.
You've denied that Egypt existed.
You've denied that lizards exist.
You've denied that NASA put a man on the moon.
You've denied that C-14 dating is accurate.

The fact that you are claiming that other people are lying is in and of itself evidence that we are telling the truth.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4409 Dec 12, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
From here on in, this shall be labelled "The Nuggin Defence".
Self fulfilling prophesy anyone?
And I'll label anyone who don't actually post a position as "Skippy's Only Move".

By the way, you shouldn't use phrases when you don't know what they mean. It makes you look like.... well, you.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#4410 Dec 12, 2012
-Skeptic- wrote:
All three creationists desperately trying to lie about my beliefs and paint me as a fundie when they have
1. absolutely no proof of god whatsoever
2. no understanding of why god isn't real (logic, evidence rationality, science)
3. Continue to lie about atheists here in this forum and make accusations when they've lost their "arguments".
Continue your bullsh*t you f*cking idiots, Nuggin, Dude & the creationist Lil Ticked...
1 - Never claimed proof
2 - Incorrect
3 - Projection
4 - None of those three you mentioned are creationists.
5 - You're not a creationist but you ARE a fundie.

Try again Skip. With some substance next time.

Since: Dec 12

Salt Lake City, UT

#4411 Dec 12, 2012
Yes I agree with Kitten. All was baseless theory.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#4412 Dec 12, 2012
ThomasSW wrote:
Yes I agree with Kitten. All was baseless theory.
O hai! Welcome to page 218!

;-p

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4413 Dec 12, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's address this for the one millionth time:
<quoted text>
ALL gods exist in title and as a label. ALL of them.
THAT is my position. That has been my position for MONTHS. That has been YOUR position 5x now. Yet you keep going back on it.
Thor is a god in title.
Jesus is a god in title.
Vishnu is a god in title.
Coyote is a god in title.
Zeus is a god in title.
ALL of them are EQUALLY valid to carry the title "god".
Ramses is a god in title.
He, just like ALL the others, is EQUALLY valid to carry the title "god".
Just like Zeus, there was a group of people who belonged to a religion centered around him. They believed he had supernatural powers, they believed her required worship.
Ramses was a god.
The DIFFERENCE between Ramses and Zeus is this:
Zeus never actually existed.
Ramses did.
So, while Zeus and Ramses were both gods in title, the MAIN DIFFERENCE is that Ramses was ALSO real. He ACTUALLY EXISTED.
So, Ramses is an example of a god who ACTUALLY existed.
This is NOT that hard to grasp.
This is where you go back to your argument that Jesus is the only real god and that Ramses doesn't count because compared to Jesus he's a fake.
-OR-
You could simply admit that my position, which hasn't changed AT ALL since I first posted it, is right and has been right this entire time.
If lies and deception make your title and label then the title and label are bogus.

So what you have is a pos liar and scoundrel who was a tyrant.
Not a god by anything but imagination.

Answer me this was Saddam Hussein a god?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4414 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
If lies and deception make your title and label then the title and label are bogus.
Nope.
The criteria for the title are based on the beliefs of the people.

It does not matter if what the people believe is untrue.

For example, you believe that Jesus was born on Christmas. However, that's simply not true on a number of levels.

However, that doesn't change the fact that other people believe what you believe and that your religion holds Dec. 25th sacred.

That makes Dec 25th a "holiday".

Based on a lie. STILL a "holiday".

See how that works?

No, of course you don't.
So what you have is a pos liar and scoundrel who was a tyrant.
Not a god by anything but imagination.
First of all, you can not categorically proclaim that ALL Pharaohs were tyrants.

Second, there are plenty of gods who were SPECIFICALLY liars, scoundrel and tyrants.

Zeus jumps to mind.
Answer me this was Saddam Hussein a god?
You keep asking that question and I keep telling you to present evidence to support your claim.

Do you worship Saddam? Is that why you are so hung up on this?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4415 Dec 12, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope.
The criteria for the title are based on the beliefs of the people.
It does not matter if what the people believe is untrue.
For example, you believe that Jesus was born on Christmas. However, that's simply not true on a number of levels.
However, that doesn't change the fact that other people believe what you believe and that your religion holds Dec. 25th sacred.
That makes Dec 25th a "holiday".
Based on a lie. STILL a "holiday".
See how that works?
No, of course you don't.
<quoted text>
First of all, you can not categorically proclaim that ALL Pharaohs were tyrants.
Second, there are plenty of gods who were SPECIFICALLY liars, scoundrel and tyrants.
Zeus jumps to mind.
<quoted text>
You keep asking that question and I keep telling you to present evidence to support your claim.
Do you worship Saddam? Is that why you are so hung up on this?
The deception and lies of Saddam made many Iraqi people believe
he was the descendant of Nebuchadnezzar , he proclaimed this stuff.
He claimed divinity and supernatural power , and yes many believed him. They "the Iraqi" didn't believe he could be captured or killed. They believed he was a god. But their belief does not make it so.

But by your premise he was, that's just feeding stupidity.
This is the same argument that Pharaonic rulers were gods because they claimed so.

The truth is by your premise any con man with a cult following
becomes a god. Where to you place your limits in false belief.
Indeed if people believe a man is a god and it is true Nuggin, then the same is true for any false belief.
If the people believe the moon is made of cheese it is true.

The god status and label is recognized as an imaginary and symbolic
title, nothing more.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4416 Dec 12, 2012
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Like David Koresh..?
Indeed under the "Nuggin defense" David Koresh is a god.

And Elvis is alive.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4417 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The deception and lies of Saddam made many Iraqi people believe
he was the descendant of Nebuchadnezzar , he proclaimed this stuff.
He claimed divinity and supernatural power , and yes many believed him. They "the Iraqi" didn't believe he could be captured or killed. They believed he was a god. But their belief does not make it so.
But by your premise he was, that's just feeding stupidity.
This is the same argument that Pharaonic rulers were gods because they claimed so.
Well, a couple of things:
#1) Claims to have been descended from Neb is not a "godly" claim, it's just a claim of heritage. If Prince Henry claimed to be descended from King Arthur (who didn't exist) that's not the same things as saying "I am a god".
#2) I don't know that the people of Iraq believed him. I certain don't think that you have any special knowledge of that. Is there a Church Of Saddam which is still being attended?
#3) Believing that he couldn't be killed isn't the same as believing he has supernatural powers. I suspect that the people who believe he couldn't be killed believed it the same way people believed Wyatt Earp couldn't be killed. Not that he was magic, just that he was better at killing you than you killing him. Saddam has many body doubles and bodyguards.
#4) Let's assume for the sake of argument that ALL of your claims are true.
- That there IS a religion in Iraq that worships Saddam.
- That they thought he had/has ACTUAL magical powers
Then he would be a god. Specifically, he would be the god of the Saddaminites of Iraq.
If you made a list of ALL the religions in Iraq and all the deities those religions worshiped, that list would include this religion and this deity.
By your standard, if I asked "Which is the most popular religion in the US" you would say "There is no religion in the US",
That's wrong.
The most popular religion in the US is Christianity, especially if you lump together various sects.
If I asked you, "Who is the central god of the Christian religion", you would say either "God" (or Yahweh or whatever) or "Jesus".
That doesn't make those deities "real". It doesn't mean they actually exist and can manifest before you.
It DOES however mean that there IS a religion which holds them as being sacred deities.
Those religions DO exist whether you like it or not.
Educated people can make a list of religions. Why can't you?
The truth is by your premise any con man with a cult following
becomes a god. Where to you place your limits in false belief.
Yes, ANYONE with a following can be a god.

You have no proven whatsoever that anyone has "false belief". False belief would be if someone CLAIMED to believe that Jesus was a god but they actually didn't believe it.

That's not an issue here.
Indeed if people believe a man is a god and it is true Nuggin, then the same is true for any false belief.
Again, where do you get this idea that there are these "false beliefs"?
If the people believe the moon is made of cheese it is true.
Wow, you just went from stupid to retarded in one step.

Show me a definition of "cheese" from ANY dictionary which cites "belief" as a criteria for cheese.

Go on. I DARE you to try and find one.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4418 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Indeed under the "Nuggin defense" David Koresh is a god.
And Elvis is alive.
Yes and no.

There is/was a religion called "Branch Davidian". David Koresh was at the center of it. They believed he had supernatural powers and required worship. Therefore he was just as much a god as Thor, Vishnu, Jesus or Ramses.

Belief however is not a criteria for determining whether or not something is alive.

How do you STILL not understand the difference between these two things?

I being dead serious for a second.

I get it that you're just a troll and you are here to argue endlessly, but are you honestly this stupid?

No, really. Do you REALLY not grasp this concept? Because it seems like this whole argument can be summed up by pointing out that you haven't been paying attention AT ALL to what we've been discussing.

If you ARE this dumb, I feel sorry for you.
If you're just pretending to be dumb to impress Skippy, then I still feel sorry for you.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4419 Dec 12, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and no.
There is/was a religion called "Branch Davidian". David Koresh was at the center of it. They believed he had supernatural powers and required worship. Therefore he was just as much a god as Thor, Vishnu, Jesus or Ramses.
Belief however is not a criteria for determining whether or not something is alive.
How do you STILL not understand the difference between these two things?
I being dead serious for a second.
I get it that you're just a troll and you are here to argue endlessly, but are you honestly this stupid?
No, really. Do you REALLY not grasp this concept? Because it seems like this whole argument can be summed up by pointing out that you haven't been paying attention AT ALL to what we've been discussing.
If you ARE this dumb, I feel sorry for you.
If you're just pretending to be dumb to impress Skippy, then I still feel sorry for you.
Yes and you have not the ability to distinguish a fallacious title , it is what is called a quantification fallacy.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#4420 Dec 12, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
David Koresh had a group of followers which believed he had supernatural powers and believed he required worship.
Therefore, like Zeus and Vishnu and Thor, David Koresh was a god.
Now, there were a lot less Branch Davidians than there are Hindus, but that doesn't really matter as far as determining the label.
Did Koresh actually have powers? Nope.
Did Thor actually have powers? Nope.
Actually having powers doesn't matter.
What matters is that people BELIEVE that he had powers.
So, Koresh can accurately be labeled at a god. In particular, the god of the Branch Davidian cult of Waco, Texas circa the 1990s.
I think that I get it , thanks.

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