Atheists on the march in America

Aug 26, 2009 Full story: TurkishPress.com 70,983

When South Florida atheists held their first meeting, they were just five friends, having a beer at a bar.

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“Science, not faith.”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#1051 Sep 3, 2009
Charlie wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I was an atheist at one time! I was raised that way always being told there was no God et., etc., just like you and others here are doing.
I have and have had very close friends who are – now, were – atheists. I have discussed long and hard with them, so one can't say I am not familiar with atheist arguments and mental states. Heck, I was making atheist arguments myself at one time.
And then I saw the light!
Most recently a friend and colleague was a practicing atheist all his life. We're talking decades here. One Friday we parted to return to our respective homes. On Sunday I received an e mail and later spoke to him on the phone, and he had completely converted! He insists that he does not believe that God exists. He insists that he KNOWS God exists. He has posted this on the internet and if anyone reads and understands French I can post the link.
So what is the religious god concept? I don't believe I'm familiar with that one.
Anecdotal evidence is worthless. You could easily be making all of that up. I can tell you that this is one atheist that won't be making any such conversion.

“No Bishop,No King,No Nobility”

Since: May 08

The Underworld

#1052 Sep 3, 2009
ScienceRules wrote:
Obviously it is assumed that matter/energy existed in some form 'before' the big bang. As always the big question is where did it originally come from.(goddidit doesn't change the question; it just soothes the fundies silly little brains)
I prefer to play by my own rules and strive to find equilibrium between disagreeing factions.

In this case I propose my own definition to the question "What is god?"

Although I'm sure it's futile, I've sought a definition that we can all agree to.

To say god is the beginning, assumes a beginning, which not everyone agrees to, so I would go with...

The beginning of all that is known.

In scientific terms I'm sure there was something before the big bang. Something that enabled it to happen.

I'm going to call that something god.

I don't believe in a sentient creator god, but I'm going to call that something that existed before the bang god.

Now if we could all just agree on my god, and move on...
laughingiris

Ann Arbor, MI

#1053 Sep 3, 2009
melevy wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed. And if you had read more of the posts, you'd see that atheists are not trying to change anyone's mind. However, neither are we going to idly stand by while some believers repeat the "lake of fire" threat for the umpteenth time. Also, we will defend against those same believers attempting to change secular law (which affects everyone) so that it suits them. I don't know how old you are, but I've been around long enough to remember the "blue laws." Most where I live have been repealed, but there are many believers who are working to get them reinstated, and to a greater degree than before.
I indeed had to look up "Blue Laws". Your ISP indicates Chicago. Only Blue Laws that I can see in Modern Day times-because those laws were enacted/enforced in Colonial 1600/1700's-concern Dry counties/Sunday liquor sales.
I'm not THAT old! lol !
Please, allow me to present my case using scenarios.
I'm a waitress. Our County is involved in a bid to become completely "smoke free". I'm getting a womans takeout order. SHE initiated the conversation about how I,as a WORKER, should be able to work in a "smoke free" environment. After a few non-committal 'hmmms' she persisted on her one-sided arguement. Finally, this is what I finally said to her. "This restaurant has been smoke-free for over 3 years. It didn't take a law. It didn't take a protest. It took consumer choice. That madam, is the bottom line. I personally have no preference. When you lobby and impose yourself upon my personal choices regarding where I can work because of cigarette smoke, you degrade and demean me. I happen to enjoy where I'm working. I don't work in a bar because I couldn't read the tickets in the low lighting and can't stand obnoxious drunk people. But for YOU, to put yourself higher above me, to decide what is BEST for me because I'm too ignorant to realize that smoke poses a Cancer risks. Well, maaammm, I hope you enjoy your food and Have a Nice Day!"
I did not embellish, this is verbatim to what I said to her.
Lets put this in reverse, shall we?
So Atheists are a minority in this Nation, such as Smokers. When I see a non-smoking sign in a restaurant, school, building, etc. I do NOT smoke. If I want a cigarette, I go to a place where I can. I'm a MINORITY here! Yet, I am NOT pushing MY beliefs upon the Majority. When you pass a copy of the 10 Commandments upon gov't land, you feel the need to take it down. Correct?
As a Christian woman, I agree. Seperation of Church and State.
When it comes to the "PC" point of having to say 'Happy Holidays' vs.'Merry Christmas'...
Perhaps you should go the way of the Marlboro Man (the second one, the first one died of cancer) and mosey on down the trail to a spot where you are welcome to light up.

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#1054 Sep 3, 2009
Truck Nuts wrote:
<quoted text>
No human organization is perfect. The charitable works of Catholic church far, far, far, outweigh the destruction that a few bad priests have done.
No.
One raped and shattered child; let alone the cynical, cowardly and grossly dishonest conspiracy of covering up and denying and thereby perpetuating the depravities that RCC clergy perpetrated on little ones and their families throughout these decades- ONE raped child completely and utterly wipes out any actual good done by the RCC.

And that "good"...? Arguable to say the very least.

The exposure of the RCC in the USA was just the beginning. THE BEGINNING. Violated children and families all over the world are exposing the RCC for doing EXACTLY as they did in America.
laughingiris

Ann Arbor, MI

#1055 Sep 3, 2009
melevy wrote:
<quoted text>Name just ONE that your "god" has "won." Buybull references no nod count. For anything.
Me
Pick

Leamington, Canada

#1056 Sep 3, 2009
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
Elvis,thats all you got? I know Elvis was real people wrote about him when he was still alive.
What you never observed a fossil?Go to a museum. Science is observable and repeatable.
Let me guess.You don't like the theory of evolution. There are hundreds of theories out there.What other theories do you have a problem with? I find it amusing that the only theory that most people have a problem with is evolution.The scientific method used is the same with all theories.
Evolution is REAL Science 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =--7EATUyzXQXX
What is real science? History has shown us that much of what science believes to be true today will someday be proven false by new information.

Likewise the atheist who staunchly believes whatever scientists tell him. His beliefs will eventually be proven wrong.

This is not a bad thing as we all have to keep an open mind about things and we all need someone or something to guide us to the truth. But too many atheist's too often believe that they already know the truth. Atheists who fall into this category are no better than the hard-headed religious folk they like to ridicule.
John

Saint Louis, MO

#1057 Sep 3, 2009
DebJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Snappy comeback! I am however curiously unimpressed.....NEXT!
I'll leave a post blank for you sometime. That seems to be what passes as impressive in this thread.

“Researching”

Since: Jun 08

-

#1058 Sep 3, 2009
Terrible. Everything is going horribly wrong. Suppose to TP this church with some friends. One of my friends went without calling the rest of us. He got caught and is now in jail. I'm sitting here bored, watching you and your Atheist buddies having the fun.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't bitch. Could, but what good would it do? You know how that goes. Well, the hours are good. And Sunday morning off.
How's religion treating you?
King Tut

Anchorage, AK

#1059 Sep 3, 2009
On the march on America??? Is the inexperienced community organizer the major domo????
John

Saint Louis, MO

#1060 Sep 3, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone believes there is an eternity of everlasting joy awaiting her children if she murders them all before committing suicide, some may see killing another human as nothing less than doing them a great good.
What's you point, Stump?
You keep asking about my beliefs and I keep telling you where they are. You've seen more than enough of my beliefs go by in the last 24 hours.
Stump, if you've got no skin in this, I'm not going to spoon feed you. I'll meet you half-way here, Stump: you go fetch a few of your favorite beliefs, opinions values, whatever, with post numbers, and I'll tell you why I said what I said. You won't get a better offer from anyone involved in this thread, because frankly, Stump, they're not interested in what you think about their thoughts.
Me either, but I'm pretty sure that if you have to make an effort, it won't come up.
Prove me wrong, Stump. Go fetch, it.
You didn't even answer this question much less take me up on a simple offer of posting a position you are defending in your own words so I am n ot accused of wordplay. We are now over 1,000 posts in and still nothing but antitheism. I made it clear a position to defend is necessary in debate. You can't or won't supply it. You act like this is a higher plane of intelligence, but, i know you are lying to yourself.
I'm not concerned by antitheists with a transparent agenda with no position. Chase your tail or test the waters. Post #
John

Saint Louis, MO

#1061 Sep 3, 2009
melevy wrote:
<quoted text>I believe that you're a troll.
Nothing bless
John

Saint Louis, MO

#1062 Sep 3, 2009
I don't believe it.
LWsciencejunkie wrote:
<quoted text>
Heeheehee..."science " isn't relevant here; at least not in terms of hard, analytical disciplines.
Go ahead. Give me an example of humor that does NOT have something negative at its core.
Bet you can't do it!
keltec 9mm

Boca Raton, FL

#1063 Sep 3, 2009
LWsciencejunkie wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
One raped and shattered child; let alone the cynical, cowardly and grossly dishonest conspiracy of covering up and denying and thereby perpetuating the depravities that RCC clergy perpetrated on little ones and their families throughout these decades- ONE raped child completely and utterly wipes out any actual good done by the RCC.
And that "good"...? Arguable to say the very least.
The exposure of the RCC in the USA was just the beginning. THE BEGINNING. Violated children and families all over the world are exposing the RCC for doing EXACTLY as they did in America.
You are correct. They may end being just as bad as our nation's public school system.

Charol Shakeshaft, a Hofstra University researcher who prepared a federal report on public school sexual abuse, submitted written testimony to the Colorado Legislature that stated:“The physical sexual abuse of students in public schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.” Her testimony said most of the accused are shifted from one school to another and are seldom fired.

http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/0...

One of every ten public school students may experience some form of sexual abuse from public school employees, a U. S. Department of Education (DOE) study shows.

http://www.campusreportonline.net/main/articl...

"Hurry up, Tommy, you don't want to miss the school bus!"

“His noodlyness astounds!”

Since: Feb 09

You tell me

#1064 Sep 3, 2009
Fed up wrote:
<quoted text>Competiton for what? God is the beginning and the end, Alpha and Omega. Take al look around you, a real good look and tell me that there is no God. You would have to be blind not to see that something far greater than us created this universe. I am afraid that the "big bang" theory just does not cut it.
I have been taking a really good look around, all over this world, for almost fifty years. There is no god.

“Jesus who?”

Since: Feb 08

Conroe, TX

#1065 Sep 3, 2009
John wrote:
I would like to thank this antitheist forum for comically revealing that behind the collective hubris and snark lies no position to defend. That's a tough sell and you helped those who doubt and question to look for something other than your nothing.
Please continue regaling us with your nothingness. I'll jump back in every few pages just for fun. The curtains already been pulled back. Stump an antitheist! Ask him what he believes.
Our positions don't need to be supported, they've already been PROVEN.

I can't speak for all atheists, but if you wanna know what I believe; I believe god doesn't exist and religion is bullshit. There's nothing else to say, that about sums it up

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#1066 Sep 3, 2009
John wrote:
I don't believe it.
<quoted text>
I gett hat you don't believe it!
Now...come up with an example of humor that does NOT have negativity at it's core!!!

This is a fun exercise; I really worked on it in middle school when it was assigned to our class. We kids tried EVERYTHING, but couldn't come up with one single example!
laughingiris

Ann Arbor, MI

#1067 Sep 3, 2009
D_M_H wrote:
<quoted text>I have been taking a really good look around, all over this world, for almost fifty years. There is no god.
50 yrs.
Have you given birth???
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#1068 Sep 3, 2009
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Boring. It's all already been debunked elsewhere:
"The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion." -- Treaty of Tripoli, 1798. UNANIMOUSLY approved by Congress and signed by John Adams, 2nd President of the United States
Research conducted by a Dutch scholar, Dr. C. Snouk Hurgronje, was published in The Christian Statesman in 1930. Dutch scholar, Dr. C. Snouk Hurgronje located the only surviving Arabic copy of the treaty and found that when translated, Article 11 was actually a letter, mostly gibberish, from the dey of Algiers to the ruler of Tripoli, and was not a part of the original treaty. Barlow mistakenly included it in the Treaty and Congress foolishly approved the Treaty. So the Treaty of Tripoli proves nothing.

America was definitely founded by Christians and US laws and customs are based on Christian values and morals. That's why the US does not permit polygamy, for example, and had required Utah to abandon that practice as a condition for statehood. It is also why the question of slavery was eventually fought over and why it is no longer permitted. It was why the civil rights movement, led by a Christian pastor, was able to succeed.

One does not see these sort of things happening in non-Christian based civilizations. That is so glaringly evident.

You should beware of all the revisionist history that you are being brainwashed with.
Yours is a religion because it is based on religious faith, which is unjustified certitude. Mine is not……blah blah blah……You're a liar. That is not worship. That is admiration. For some reason, you snakes need to turn it into a religion and worship. I don't know why, because even if that were the case, then I've got a better religion than you.
Do I detect an air of superiority here? Is your religion better, or is it just you who is the superior person? That's it, isn't it? It's pride! Overweening pride that drives atheists.
You've got it backwards. I was a Christian before I was educated. Science made atheism possible, and soon I found and embraced it. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Atheism is not tenable without modern science, or at least it has nothing to recommend it over theism. But I have science and I respect science. and I've seen the promise of science deliver the fruits of science.
Christianity is not tenable with modern science, or at least, it has nothing to recommend it over naturalism/secularism. I had religion, I respected religion until I saw the promise of religion fail and realized what its fruits really were.
Failed, specious argument.
There you go with that worshipful attitude towards science. again. But you have mostly demonstrated my points.

Are you a product of the modern American educational system? You know, the one that ranks 24th in mathematics, 9th in science, 7th in reading, and 20th in problem solving.

That education you got also made you into a two dimensional person, and perhaps robbed you of any sense of awe you might have had for the mystery of existence. You see, science has been marvelously successful in certain areas of life, and so, everyone wanted to be like scientists. That explains the joke of the social sciences, for example.

Let's measure everything! If it can't be measured, it's not real…… etc.

This is no reproach towards science. I have admiration for its accomplishments also. But science is also a human endeavor and it is not immune from human foibles. Humans are the problem with science as they are with religion.

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#1069 Sep 3, 2009
keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct. They may end being just as bad as our nation's public school system.
Charol Shakeshaft, a Hofstra University researcher who prepared a federal report on public school sexual abuse, submitted written testimony to the Colorado Legislature that stated:“The physical sexual abuse of students in public schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.” Her testimony said most of the accused are shifted from one school to another and are seldom fired.
http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/0...
One of every ten public school students may experience some form of sexual abuse from public school employees, a U. S. Department of Education (DOE) study shows.
http://www.campusreportonline.net/main/articl...
"Hurry up, Tommy, you don't want to miss the school bus!"
I have worked in the field of child sexual abuse (CSA) for years.
Public schools are a lesser danger to children than any religious context.
The RCC was the tip of a ghastly iceberg. NO religion is exempt of even less-infested with predatory pedophile clergy or elders. The Jehovah's Witnesses are undergoing an exposee that is EXACTLY as extreme as the RCC's. Link:
silentlambs.org
The LDS, not just the FDLS, the Southern Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Pentacostals, Church of Christ...The only difference between other religious affiliations and the RCC is that girls are more victimized than boys, just as is the statistical breakdown re. the general population.
The RCC's celibacy doctrine for clergy just selected for men who were not interested in sex with women, so homosexual pedophiles were overrepresented. Of course, girls were victimized too, by the RCC, but boys were more at-risk and comprise the preponderance of CSA victims.
The reason public schools are less dangerous for kids in terms of CSA is because in a secular institution there is no spiritual ideal of unconditional respect, trust or obedience given to PS staff. Also, the staff of a PS is comprised of individuals of many beliefs, including none- there is no shared ideology to align with or to protect. Therefore a "problem" staff member or teacher is not guaranteed any group collaboration directed towards protecting the group-as-a-whole.

Finally, although there certainly ARE female teachers who exploit pubescent/teen boys, they are statistically very, very rare compared to male pedophiles that primarily violate girls, although there are also are homosexual pedophiles. Since the RCC hierarchy is exclusively male and the staff of public schools is predominately female, that alone makes the public schools less dangerous in terms of CSA.
Charlie

Papeete, French Polynesia

#1070 Sep 3, 2009
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
Hardly... During the civil rights movement of the 60's the position was that blacks were equal to rights.... PERIOD. The actions taken were taken in order to PROVE that and make sure their rights were observed.
It is similar with what atheists are experiencing now. Atheists are tired of having the religious shove their faerie-tales down our throats. It doesn't change our position. We do not believe in your or any other juju/sky-daddy. Do not propose to enact or enforce laws upon us that are based in your superstitions.
Keep your myths to yourself, live by whatever silly rules you feel you need to live by, but don't try to force others to do so.
LOL! Soon atheists are going to start demanding the right to marry! Marriage equality for atheists! LOL!

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